Alien: Covenant

Are there two different races of Engineer?

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OvomorphMember1 XPOct-26-2012 1:21 PM[img][/img] i noticed from this picture that the engineer in the opening scene looks more human then the one on lv223 his eye structure is similar to ours where as the one on lv223 had completely black eyes and grey skin not white . did evolution do this? was the engineer on lv223 some sort of manufactured droid for doing all the dangerous work like humans do with androids? maybe another plothole any ideas. [i]- Image Link fixed by Chris[/i]
21 Responses to Are there two different races of Engineer?


OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 1:26 PMThe change between these two is because of the cir***stances. The one in the beginning might have "healthy" life, but the one at the end was in stasis and it has a toll on him. If you look close the eyes are same, the light just makes it different so is in the skin.

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Cerulean Blue

FacehuggerMember446 XPOct-26-2012 1:26 PMThe idea I have heard here is that the LV-223 Engineer has been combining his DNA with the DNA of the xenomorph, hence the pressure suit, black eyes, aggressive nature?


OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 1:35 PMI believe that they're both the same just one is outside n one is not. It'sreally not that big of a thing and surely doesnt distinguish different races between them. They r most likely all clones, all badass mofo's period.


EngineerAdmin22228 XPOct-26-2012 1:35 PMI absolutely believe there are two separate races of Engineers. One spreading life throughout the universe and the other aiming to destroy it, or manipulate it into weapons. I've brought up the symbolism of Light and Dark angels in previous threads and I think it's possible that the Dark Angels / Engineers on LV_223 were trying to use their knowledge of life and creation to overtake their God - Their higher being which has yet to be revealed. I think the biological ALIEN seen in the Mural in Prometheus is a blueprint schematic which the Engineers were using to guide themselves in creating the perfect organism. Another theory I've had is that the worship the Alien as we do our God, for its purity and that they were trying to harness its power for themselves in hopes of becoming (Like Weyland had intended) God-Like.
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OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 1:54 PMI believe they are from the same humanoid group, but one is for good the other is for evil. The one at the beginning is from a type of priest class, and is making himself a sacrifice. I believe the others belong to a dark cult, thus causing a more sinister appearence.

Oneironaut 717

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 2:19 PMIndeed, Oldmantime! They are of the same race, two factions with their own agendas. One creates life the other destroys it. The speech between the Sacrificial Engineer and the Elder which was scrapped from the theatrical cut went a little something like this: [b][i][u][quote]vratra-sunu-sangena, kludh! tanus teva pârâtu ’aadat, kruhs teva aapam. gwhitam-usya-kwe ’asyat ei pnnthane — nâsmuh aya.[/quote][/u][/i][/b] Which roughly translates to: [b][i][u][quote] Let your body become the dirt! Your blood become the waters. May your soul become their way back to us[/quote][/u][/i][/b] [url=]Original post found here:[/url] [size=50][i]Romanisation and translation of Elder Engineer speech credit goes to[/i] Sukkai[/size] *EDIT* LV 223 I believe, was intended to be a meeting place between The Engineers and humans - but the rebel group, the ones with the pressure suits/mutation transformed it as a place of death. 'Time to die - Bwahahaha' [img][/img]


OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 2:23 PMWhen does the human race ever agree on anything? There could be political, religious, and/or caste differences among the Engineers. Further, the nature of the Engineers may be totally different than the guesses of Dr. Shaw or Dr. Holloway.


OvomorphMember1 XPOct-26-2012 2:23 PM@Chris thanks for fixing the link im new to making threads. could the race that Ridley nicknamed The gardeners be the real gods and the ones on lv223 the fallen angels who stole the seeding goo off the gods and turned it into a wepon of mass destruction. this might explain why no one came looking for the engineers on lv223 because they were a group of extremists hideing out on an empty moon.


OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 4:27 PMIf you replace demonic forces for the Engineers on the planet, I think you have a pretty good describtion of who they are. They obviously have a cult worship with a godhead and alter in the temple. I don't believe it was an atmoshperic change that started the jars and the mural to change. It was the evil force itself that became awoke. The mural started predicting Dr. Shaws future with it's display, and mocked her cross she had on. There is a death skull that is visable in two shots, this is always a sign of a death cult. The storm that became active, could only be started by an evil force. I have a few other notes concerning this group of Engineers as solely a death cult.

Indy John

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 6:09 PMEvil forces causing the events in our movie?...This would take the story out of realm of Science Fiction to Science Fantasy,,,, I would ,prefer my stories to be more realistic based,,thyan the battle of good and evil forces,,for the soul of humans. If you are right,,well that could ,make a hell of story line..
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OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 6:37 PM@Oldmantine; Quote: [i]The mural started predicting Dr. Shaws future with it's display, and mocked her cross she had on. There is a death skull that is visable in two shots, this is always a sign of a death cult.[/i] If you see the big head located in the ampule room, clearly seems to the Orpheus head, everyone knows what it means, mythology always attributed to the Orpheus head the gift of prophecy, so could be clearly linked, as you very well pointing us.

ancient one

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 7:13 PMThey are physically different one has what appears to be gills or vents under his neck the other more human.Perhaps these dark angels were created to do the hazardous work and other duties like androids.even the suit looks as if it's part of his flesh where the other looks like a perfect man.the fact that david told holloway how would he feel if your creators made you just because they could.Maybe the droid type engineers felt as David did .although David wasn't supposed to feel worthless I believe he did.when the engineer looked at David and realized he was a human creation it almost seemed that he felt sorry for him ,like himself would never be equal to his creator. Then we see the rage that he used weyland creation to kill him like they maybe tried to do to their creators.maybe they were jealous of the elders prized creations humans .That may be a reason why they wanted to destroy us [b][/b]


OvomorphMember0 XPOct-26-2012 7:43 PMOne thing that has beem bothersome for me, which i'm sure could be explained in the backstory but for now I consider a plot hole, is the lack of evolution (if you believe in that sort of thing) among the Engineer race. They are the same 80 years from now as they were when they seeded Earth 235 million years ago. Now given the progression and diversity of life on Earth during that time period, it would stand to reason that the Engineers themselves and their technology would change dramatically over such a long period of time. Of course, it could be that they long ago attained "perfection" thus evolution ceased, or they could have decided for themselves they were perfect and began cloning themselves. Still seems odd though.


PraetorianAdmin4321 XPOct-26-2012 8:33 PMThe eyes could also be part of the bio-suit, a protection of sorts, like integrated sunglasses. [Center][IMG][/IMG][/Center]

Visionary Alpha

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-27-2012 12:11 AMNo one mentions how long ago the beginning scene takes place, and I think 235,000,000 years is much too long. The beginning scene doesn't need to take place on Earth, either. As Ridley Scott said, it symbolizes that the engineers seed worlds with life in that way, and it could be Earth or another planet. With respect to the engineers evolving, though, their technology may have drastically improved if you look at the sacrificial engineer as having been primitive by the standards of the engineers on LV-223. The engineers, just like humans, probably started out as primitive and advanced (or evolved) to have space travel, etc. The oval shaped "mother ship" in the beginning probably is from a parent civilization, far more advanced than either the engineers or humanity, and that civilization was responsible for the original technology of the black goo and genetic manipulations like that.

Visionary Alpha

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-27-2012 12:16 AMThe engineers are biologically counter-efficient with respect to what we know of evolution, however. Humans used to be much taller like that, yet with smaller brains. We may have evolved from these neanderthalls, or cromagnons, etc.. Evolution itself determined that shorter was better, and smarter came with shorter.


OvomorphMember0 XPOct-27-2012 12:19 AMII think there is a misconception between creating life and reproducing life in the movie. The beginning of the film is a priest type of Engineer performing a ritual of sacrafice. Giving his body over to an organic material which holds the building blocks for various life forms and structures with his own DNA. This organic material (which has been named black goo) is really the key to the process. They do have the ability to manufacture the organic material, which is made clear, but in the process both set of Engineers are involved in some sort of spiritual conversion of the goo. So how did they obtain this process. The question you ask concerning evolution is a good question, in as how far does evolution go before it is complete. What is the full cycle. Would so called higher life forms need evolution. I don't think the movie is out to answer the scienticifc question fo evolution, as much as it points to an alternative for the beginning of life.


OvomorphMember0 XPOct-27-2012 12:33 AM@Visionary: Doesn't Ridley say on the BluRay commentary that the events at the beginning took place 500 million years ago?
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Visionary Alpha

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-27-2012 12:55 AM@zzplural: I don't know; I don't have the BluRay, but I just read online about human evolution and the best of what we know (in reality) is that modern humans, called homo-sapiens have only existed in the past 200,000 years or so. They evolved from other off-shoots of apes, such as homo-erectus, over the course of a only a few million years. Is Ridley trying to say that the engineers created "all life" or just us?

Visionary Alpha

OvomorphMember0 XPOct-27-2012 12:58 AMIf memory serves from school, the first life on Earth was marine life, and it began with one or two celled organisms, such as the amoeba. That was even a few BILLION years ago.


OvomorphMember0 XPOct-27-2012 4:41 AMIt is possible that we are shown the Engineers seeding another world. For one, simple forms of life, according to some scientist, have been around for 3-4 billion years. However, the Cambrian Explosion, where life began to take on more complex forms, happened around half-a-billion years ago. Again, if they were shown seeding earth, whether 4 billion years ago to start simple life, or 500 million years ago to "reseed" and stir the pot a bit, that's still a long time for them to have remained unchanged by evolution. Another thought on this - the world that is being seeded in the first scenes has no plant life that can be seen, so the atmosphere would have been rather primordial. Yet, the Engineer (along with the others in the deleted scenes) are walking around without pressure suits, breathing just fine. Another argument that they are genetically perfect (remember the zenomorph could also exist in the vacuum of space).
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