ChrisEngineerAdmin21915 XPOct-24-2016 9:12 AM
Looks like you were right BigDave! The news coming out now is matching up exactly to what our sources gave us this time last year! Very exciting...
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember763 XPOct-24-2016 9:14 AM
I am sorry Chris if you listen to the interview Michael refers to the Kane chest buster uncertainly as a neomorph. You can tell he can not quite remember the word Xenomorph. That is the one reference to Alien Covenant amongst several films in the pipeline all this other detail has nothing to do with Michaels interview and whatever the source of all the other speculation it has nothing to do with Michaels interview which is the implication of the AVP entry. It may be right but it has been garnered elsewhere.
ChrisEngineerAdmin21915 XPOct-24-2016 9:19 AM
Indeed, that was my first hesitation as well. But, I have heard murmurings on social media that the name "Neomorph" was in fact used to describe the new Aliens in Covenant and even AvPGalaxy too, are rolling with it. It's likely Fassbender had been around that term so much, that when discussing Aliens again, it just slipped out.
Dark NebulaXenomorphStaff1187 XPOct-24-2016 9:22 AM
One month ago somebody from IMDb claimed that he have seen some scenes for AC.Everybody thought he was making things up,but looks like he was telling the truth.
He described the engineer planet as having a jungle setting and some kind of a virus/spore entering some guy's ear and then the alien bursting from his back which he described as "Pretty gruesome and gory".
Link to the post
ChrisEngineerAdmin21915 XPOct-24-2016 9:33 AM
Thanks for that Dark Nebula! Indeed, the spore concept is something relatively new for me. The only leaks we received so far concerned the adult-version of these creatures. That and of course some pretty neat set designs. If you scrollback to like page 8 of news on this site, you can find them still.
The neck-bursting and back-bursting definitely sounds gruesome.
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember763 XPOct-24-2016 9:59 AM
Its the same person on IMDb as AVP making the same points and intimating there that a musicians son had offered the spoilers. No one is triangulating other intel there is one source.
Anyway thats a good example of why I am not getting close to the sites until we can discuss the film afterwards because whilst I think it is highly suspect I really do not want to be spoilt so I wish you all a happy 283 days !
Durp004FacehuggerMember425 XPOct-24-2016 10:21 AM
Wow if this all turns out to be true that's a super big reveal this early on.
ChrisEngineerAdmin21915 XPOct-24-2016 12:46 PM
Indeed Durp. It is a big reveal for sure, but there is a lot more left undiscovered. This film is going to take Prometheus' ambiguous scale and fill it up with finite details and intricate details reminiscent of the original Alien. It's going to be a film you'll have to view many times to catch everything, I'm sure!
FacehuggersNeomorphMember1984 XPOct-24-2016 1:29 PM
This is interesting:
Medical Definition of neomorph.
1: a structure that is not derived from a similar structure in an ancestor. 2: a mutant gene having a function distinct from that of any nonmutant gene of the same locus.
MonsterZeroXenomorphMember1310 XPOct-24-2016 3:13 PM
Hopefully this is accurate.
Nice to have a name for the monsters.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-24-2016 4:13 PM
Indeed as Michelle had said, i feel Fassbender had mentioned the Neomorph as in context to Alien with Kanes Chest Buster.
I can not seem to get to the IMDB exact on set spoiler that someone had seen... or claimed but i remember a while ago we had claims of WY Security shooting at Trilobite from Prometheus.
I fully understand Michelle when she may well want to leave debates until after the movie when we have the complete account of whats going to happen... rather than discus what could happen because indeed as time goes on more and more of these kinds of so called spoilers could come about.
We cant validate any of them, and so potentially they could lead us up a Garden Path that is far away from what we would actuallly see...
For some if so called rumors are taken on board and they appear to be very interesting... you could set yourself up for disappointment if the actual movie is far from what you was led up to by false information to expect.
On the flip side if they are indeed true then it would spoil the movie for you.
We certainly had our fair share of such rumors in the run up to Prometheus and about 3 different so called Advanced Screenings of Prometheus in the run up to its release.
And who remembers how in-accurate those was...
While it may be fun to speculate about these rumours, and if i was to then take these on board and try and weave them into another theory..... i would again maybe be as Michelle rightly pointed out before... be merely taking on a straw man approach.
I will next try and see however how these rumors could work... i know cant help myself ;)
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-24-2016 4:35 PM
First of all i am not sure how much these connect to the Source information i had been given in the first week of March 2015 and i cant even validate what was said back then.
But onto these rumors.... I think we need to take them with a pinch of salt.... but if we look at them and ask... could this potentially happen?
The Answer could well be yes....
Fire and Stone, had shown that a Black Goo Spillage could effect a whole matter of Life, not only basic life but maybe native life.... Fire and Stone was very flawed however... but i wont go into detail here.
One thing it did seem to show was Plant Life that seemed to have some Xeno traits so to speak... certainly was alien looking.
If the Black Goo indeed can effect a Worm, a Human... why cant it effect Plant Life?
Its not beyond the realms of possibility as far as the Franchise goes that the Black Goo could infect Plant Life and Evolve it into something that could pass on spores... This is what Plant Life does... it has many kinds of ways to Procreate, some via the release of Spores or Seeds... others needing some 3rd party to pollinate.
If the basic basis of the Black Goo or Organism that lead to the Black Goo, had a way to adapt and invade other species to procreate its Genetic Code.... then indeed Mutated Alien Spore Plants that release spores to then infect Hosts certainly does fit within the broad spectrum of the WHAT IF and WHAT as far as the Black Goo.
So far though we have not been shown what Paradise Looks quite like... i did make a topic to discus this here.. PARADISE
They did shoot in New South Wales and New Zealand and so a Jungle/Forest setting looks very likely... we only have shots of some part of the Covenant Ship (assume) taken from New Zealand and this area is green... but we have not seen massive Jungle or Wooded Terrain...
We have the Scene of Disaster which seems more like a Waste Land a Savannah and like the more hostile baron parts of the Outback.... but we cant be sure if this Scene is Paradise yet.
The only set we have seen that indicates a definite Jungle or Forest is the shots of those Tree Stumps that are very large in scale for Humans. But is prefect to show us Paradise is like the Land of the Giants TV series in scale to the Human Visitors.
This image has been discused before in which many are drawn to it being the result of Destruction... but i cant see the Black Goo doing such damage... only a High Powered Energy Weapon that releases a lot of Energy like a Nuke could maybe lead to the uniform destruction of the top of these Trees.
Where however is the rest of the Trees... are we to assume they are simply disintegrated..
The theory that i proposed however was they are going to show us a larger scale World... they could show Flash Backs of Engineer related beings near normal wooded locations.
And have this scene were normal human actors are shown at the base of large trees... which would help to bring scope to the scale of potentially Engineer related Giant Beings.
Why no Tops? Because the Shooting does not show us the Tops it shows us what can be seen at eye level to the Human Visitors... no need to design and create massive trees... the other angles can be done with CGI Trees.
Back to CGI.... a Jungle World could end up with CGI added to make it more of a Avatar Jungle than a Earth one.. but these Trees look pretty much like Large Oak Trees and similar.
But if i can turn your ATTENTION to the Markers near those Tree Stumps..... the Blue/White Patterned Markers as if Place Holders for some CGI or for addition of some props latter.
Maybe Dead Engineers? who knows.....
However... after reading the rumours in this Topic.... then indeed they could be place holders where they could add Prop/CGI Spores or similar...
This could lend to some evidence for the case of those rumors.. but as with all my theories... i could be completely taking a unrelated Clue and trying to fit it to fit in with the rumors...
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-24-2016 4:58 PM
As far as the Source which again i cant be sure is even 0% never mind 100% correct and the Xenomorph... here is what roughly points they gave..
*There would be TWO Monsters, they claimed Prometheus had 3 Monsters which included Fifield.... other was Hammerpede and what led to Shaws Deacon.
*They are the result of TWO events... one a past Event, the other David plays a role in.
*They are both different to each other but yet they both are connected to the Xenomorph (we can make a comparison)
*One would be based off the Necronom 4 and Ultramorph concepts.
*The other would be a fresher design of the Original (thinking cant be Neconom 4, or the Xenomorph).
*One of these would have somewhat translucent appearance like a Jelly Fish or some kinds of Shrimp.. i assumed they meant the Ultramorph based on but it could be either.
These was the Original clues, and maybe yes they could fit into these new rumors we just dont know... and we dont know if the Source was even correct...... but there hints seem to show indeed a Past Event shows us one related Organism... this could be something remains from something Ancient like the Eggs on the Derelict... or a Flash Back to some related event...
The other David plays a role, which could that be the Black Goo or also involve something remaining on Paradise?
The Source a few months latter i think around August, i will have to check back.... claimed a few things.
*Mankinds role is greater in the creation of the Xenomorph
*Without Sin as in context of Paradise Lost there would be no Xenomorph..... this could mean Sin as in Acts that displeased the Gods that resulted in them having to create such Evil Biological Warfare.... or Sin as in Satans Daughter who was birthed as Punishment for Satan who is constantly in labor and birthing Horrid Hounds of Hell.
*The Deacon had a lot of evolution before it could become a Xenomorph.
*In order to Re-Create the Xeno all you needed was the Knowledge and Tools and David 8 has both.
Maybe this also fits the bill below?
*That in context to Paradise Lost the Punishment of some of the Fallen Angels being turned into Serpents provided them a release from Bondage.
Those are for the most part the comments regarding the Xenomorph... however it appears the Black Goo plays some key role as does the events of LV-223 as far as what was told in March... along with The Black Goo was originally a Parasite but now it seem to be much more than that and maybe everything.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-24-2016 5:21 PM
But as far as Factual regarding the Xenomorph connections... and so only going by what we have been shown and comments all we know is the following (fill in anything i have missed).
*By the time the Covenant Crew arrive there is some Evolving Creature (i dont think Spore fits role of creature or could it?) They (Engineers) created it, but bare in mind Ridley then mentioned in context to Engineers that they created the Evil Biology which was in regards to the Black Goo.
*The purpose of the movie is to show what was THEY (Engineers) thinking when they created such Evil Bio-Weapon and it felt like a Weapon and Bio-Mechanical and Eventually we would find out how this is the case.
*We would be shown a Scene that Tops the Chest Buster in Alien, but we have to remember he made the same kind of comment regarding the C-Section in Prometheus. But i think he is onto something big and horrific.
*There would be Aliens Chest Busting all over the place (Fassbenders comment) which means more than one Chest Buster but who knows how many.
*The Pilot (McBride) and crew was being chased around the ships by Aliens*
*Week by week the cast at breakfast table got smaller and smaller as each of them got picked off by the Aliens.
*We will get every cycle of the Alien, Egg, Face Huger, Chest Buster and Big Boy.... how would Egg fit with Spores? Unless as a result of creatures created from Spores? Or maybe experiment by David or even Flash Back Thousands of years ago? who knows. But we will see all the Stages.. of something similar to the Alien if not the Alien.
*We are going to find out maybe why the Alien looked Bio-Mechanical.... as well Prometheus the creatures were not but also we have to remember many of the concepts for Prometheus and Spaights draft were also not Bio-Mechanical like the Xenomorph... only the latter Ultramorph was.
*We see the sculpt of the Hands to at least some Xeno-related Organism... Tagged where it all begins... the Digits are not like the Xenomorphs and the hand does not look Bio-Mechanical.
So that really is the actual clues we have that can be take as Fact.... yes we had the Ultramorph Clapper Board and the Face-Hugger and 1979 Xenomorph on Caps, T-Shirts and other items of clothing given to the Production team but surely they would not put the Final Designs on those to give away the Plot.
FROM THESE CLUES..
Using them alone... i can come up with that its possible that something was created in the past by the Engineers that is on Paradise... either a Organism, OR something created from the Black Goo.
That was either created prior to Davids arrival or after his arrival that he created with the Black Goo, or in some part played a role in its Evolution.
Somehow a number of the Crew get infected and i would assume we are not going to see mass infections as it appears the Crew could be 20 at most... it would logically fit if the Organisms need Hosts (Chest Busters) that actual Chest Buster related events in context to the timeline of post arrival of the Covenant must be no more than a ratio of 1 in 5 crew to make sense.... for example if there is 15 crew it would not make sense to see 5-6 Chest Busters hunting down the rest of the crew when we take into account the Pilot (McBride) and Daniels (Waterson) at least survive near to if not all the way to the end.
We will see some Organism related to the Xenomorph, that prehapse eventually evolves to the Xenomorphs or gives us a clue to how they could have originated.... This Organism is different to the Xenomorph (unless they are again re-designing the Hands as each movie it changes a bit) But regardless the hands of this Organism that at least appears in Alien Covenant does not look Bio-Mechanical like the Xenomorphs.
So this is clue to something that Evolves, that requires a extra input a extra influence to obtain Bio-Mechanical Traits.
May not show us the Full Alien Xenomorph.... just the seeds i make this assumption based on needing another TWO movies before we eventually get to Alien. And i think if 40-70% through the movie we are introduced to the Xenomorph or shown how... then surely we dont want to see another 2 movies to connect it to Alien?
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-24-2016 6:25 PM
If i am trying to dig up any connection with Spores....
This is what Star Beast refered to the Egg stage in that draft that lead to Alien and while the Humans came across Urns that contained the Octopus like Face Hugers...
The Mural done for Star Beast shows different to Urns.
I have always found many a interesting thing within this piece of work... not only designs that are similar to the Prometheus Adult Trilobite but also the Fresco Creature.
The Altar seems to have decorating it what look like Pods, they are not quite like the Eggs in Alien but they are far from Urns of Prometheus.... yet Star Beast Draft the capsules which contained the Organism that infected the Human and Giant Race the Humans attended a SOS signal from... they was described like Jars/Urns.
Maybe the items decorating the Altar could fit the bill or Spores... which is what Star Beast also refereed to the first stage of the Organism as and the Last...
Looking on the Wall Paintings we see what looks like a 3d component and so a carving of sorts these show us some kind of what can best be described as a Seed of certain Plants after the Plant starts to grow from the Seed... but they also look like some Octopus too.
But i am not sure how relevant this is, only as far as the mention of Spores....
If we look however at some of the Concept Art Carlos Huante had worked on, prior to any Prometheus Drafts being finished... he did many designs for Engineers, all similar but different and while i dont like the designs.... mainly the Hands and Arms depicted as being separated from the rest of the body...
This one piece was interesting....
What we see on the Floor could indeed be like Spores... certainly like various kinds of Sea Coral and Flora. And this image does look a bit like Sea Anemones and even Siphonophores
We dont know what influence those Spore like parts of that drawing was.. what was Carlos thinking for inspiration and so it could be something or nothing.... if its something it could maybe be the Source for the Black Goo? Or the Origin of DNA from which the DNA that led to Xeno experiments had arrived from.
So this in no way gives any credit or can be used as any clue or evidence to support the rumors of this Topic...
But certainly Spore Like Origin or connection could fit within context to the Origins of the Xenomorph and related Organisms...
But we cant be sure yet.... i guess as time goes on we would get more clues and we would surely find out come August the 4th
ChrisEngineerAdmin21915 XPOct-24-2016 6:51 PM
Really nice observation there, Chestbursters!, With the definition of a "Neomorph".
1: a structure that is not derived from a similar structure in an ancestor. 2: a mutant gene having a function distinct from that of any nonmutant gene of the same locus.
That pretty much matches up with what these creatures are intended to be! So, this would suggest the Neomorphs are the first of their kind and a unique creation, unaffected by evolution and without any prior incarnation.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-24-2016 6:58 PM
Been looking at Marine Biology of the Sea Anemone and they are a interesting species..... with various subspecies and ways to procreate..
I found this as far as how some can also procreate.
Similar to how we saw the Sacrificial Goo operate to a degree, Sea Anemone are also related to Jelly Fish.
And so some ancient alien related Organisms to either Plant Life or Marine Biology that is similar to Sea Anemone being connected to the Origins of the Xenomorph would be interesting..
But we cant be sure thats the case, but it would be a interesting twist.
I think Prometheus has shown the Sacrificial Goo is used to break down the Engineers DNA, and this newly created substance then evolves life to take on Engineer Traits.
We can not possibly fathom how many experiments the Engineers have ever made... i think over many thousands of years they would have tried such methods to create something... and then use the same methods upon what they created.
Mixing various forms of life with each other to see how many results they could find. And create, so what would stop them using the Goo on Plant Life to then use that to inject Plant Traits onto other forms of Life.
The list of possibilities with the Sacrificial Goo is endless and its a wander did one experiment on something they came across lead to the Xenomorph Ancestor?
The First Ancestral DNA does not have to match the final outcome in such a Evolutionary path or continued experiments upon the first subject.
A Organism related to a Octopus could be experimented on with the Sacrifical Goo and results re-experimented on over and over until we get the Xeno.
You cant rule that out....
We have to remember Science tries to teach us that we evolved over a Billion or so years and if they are correct our Evolutionary path actually can go back to some pretty Alien Looking at Strange Organisms.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-24-2016 7:07 PM
Indeed Chris the terminology of the real meaning of Neomorph certainly links more with a Parasite Organism of sorts... something without origin that can mutate cells.
Pretty much what we have seen as far as Xenomorph Biology and its History we know of so far... includes the Black Goo.
I am not sure Neomorph is a slip of the tongue by Fasbender... but then we cant rule out the Name being something that is linked to the Origin of the Xenomorph the Covenant draft is covering and be that some Parasite or Spore that leads to something else.
If in context of the Movie this is the running idea of a name... such as in Prometheus they coined the Hammerpede for both early Centipede designs and later Worm/Space Cobra and the Trilobite for all designs of Octopus/Squid like designs.
If Neomorph is a running term for something in Alien Covenant, then maybe Fassbender could accidentally used that word instead of Xenomorph.
I guess you have to wander how can you misinterpret and get Xeno mixed up with Neo.... ?
So we cant indeed rule it out.... time would tell..
Hey maybe thats the Matrix connection NEO lol.
Neo is Greek for Young... and so also beginnings... and so could fit in with a Origin....
I would find it fascinating if the Xenomorph and related Organism all stem from something totally not so related. Or if they are the result of the Black Goo that infects something to create spores..
But then we have to ask where did the Black Goo gain the Xeno traits from still.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-24-2016 7:10 PM
"Neomorphs are the first of their kind and a unique creation, unaffected by evolution and without any prior incarnation."
Certainly can buy into something like that, we cant be sure how true this new leak is, but regardless certainly having the Xenomorph Origin date back to something very different would make for a interesting idea.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-24-2016 7:18 PM
I would also like to further add that someone on here i forgot who when discussing a Topic about the Engineers Technology ... just remembered it was Dark Nebula he mentioned about how Giger had envisioned that the Derelict was not Technology as such but Grown like a Flower.
There seemed to be a connection between the Bio-Mechanical Look of the Derelict and the Xenomorph Hive Construction and Xenomorph that seems to imply there is a connection.
And so yes... something like a common Origin from some kind of be it Alien Plant Matter or Alien Marine Plant or Biology would be something very interesting.... and our Engineers merely Experimented upon this to lead to the Xeno and their Bio-Mechanical Ships...
Acting like Star Trek The Borg Meets HR Giger.
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember763 XPOct-25-2016 9:00 AM
Guys just to add and what this intel reminds me of. Benedict ***berbatch who played the necromancer and smaug in the Hobbit said this in 2012 "I’m playing Smaug through motion-capture and voicing the Necromancer, which is a character in the Five Legions War or something which I’m meant to understand. He’s not actually in the original Hobbit. It’s something [Peter Jackson]’s taken from Lord Of The Rings that he wants to put in there." You can imagine the internet went wild expecting Sauron to turn up at the BOFA and all the angst that caused. It demonstrated to me you can read far to much into what a busy actor making five six films a year means when talking in an interview with multiple subjects. He misremembered the title and of course Michael referred to the Kane chest buster as a neomorph having already let it be known there are busting moments in an earlier interview.
As to the guy on AVP Galaxy he maintains multiple sources have confided to just him this news about spoors. Its conceivable the mutagen has airborne potential but equally this seems to be riffing some fire and stone material which I studied yesterday.
Personally if it is true in any substantial way I do not want to know hence my reason for taking an interregnum . Best to you all and keep up the good work BD
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-25-2016 9:13 AM
You hit the Nail on the Head there Michelle
sometimes we can misread what Actors say when they are talking about more than one movie.
As far as the Leak goes.... it depends on if the information about the Back Busters etc was information released prior to the Fassbender interview.
If say i had some information from some leak who said to me today the Xenomorph would be refereed to as The Alphamorph and it would look similar to the unused Ultramorph....
Then days or weeks latter a interview with a cast member lets say Mcbride refers to a Alphamorph then this would maybe support the supposed leak.
However if the information based in this scenerio never mentioned the name only that its similar to the Ultramorph, and then days latter a interview some cast member said Alphamorph which i never mentioned... this would in no way give credit to my claims... only way that would is if concept or prop work popped up that looked like the Ultramorph.
So Fassbenders slip of the tongue, he in no way suggested the Neomorph as connected to Alien Covenant, all he had said was that Alien Covenant will bring back some of the Horror of Alien while continue the Scope of Prometheus.
Fassbender comes across as a intelligent person and maybe he knows the meaning of Neo... and so his Neomorph comment was something he had made up to explain the Chest Buster as being a Younger Phase of the Xenomorph.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-25-2016 9:53 AM
I will now try and deconstruct the Leak information in a way to argue against it... and then for it. Taken from the AVP Page.
"These Aliens are the result of the local ecosystem being mutated by the accelerant/black goo. Over time, pods started to grow on the trees and the ground, and release a spore when disturbed"
We see similar in Fire and Stone... and yes its likely this would happen and i could but here is what i would assume would happen based on all information the movie Prometheus gave us.
1) We would have to wander what other life was on Paradise, even in the location just near a supposed Black Goo Attack. Prometheus shows us one of TWO things...
*Any lifeforms would either be evolved and take on Xeno traits, like we had Worms that became Hammerpedes and so Fire and Stone did kind of show the potential for how Organism could be evolved to become Xeno Hybrids.
*Life forms DNA is broken down and carries Xeno DNA and then reconstructs into basic Life that carries Xeno DNA and Evolution would begin... eventually leading to Organisms that would have Xeno traits.... With this route it would depend how many years would this accelerant take to complete a Evolutionary Cycle from Basic New Life to Complex and then ponder at what stage of Evolution are we at as of the time the Covenant arrives... this would depend also on when the Attack of the Black Goo has happened.
Ridley Scot mentioned a Evolving Creature.... so how can a Black Goo Attack lead to only One Evolving Organism (by One it could mean one kind....)
2) If we assume that these pods at the bottom of the Trees are related to Plants, then we have to wonder can the Black Goo infect Plant material? In Fire and Stone we are shown Plants that look very Alien compared to how they are on Earth and its maybe these Plants on LV-223 look like this because they are infected by the Goo.
*so far the only actual set we see of close up Plant Life shows us Large Tree Stumps... these Trees do not carry any Alien looking Traits and look just like Trees on Earth. Is it because the Tree is dead? and cant be infected?
*I would assume if Plant Matter could be infected then we would see a Landscape that has some HR Giger DNA to it, so far we have not seen this... however we have not seen much of the Movie and the Tree Scene could be prior to any attack.
*The above would all be assuming the Black Goo was on a Large Scale and could infect the Trees and Plant Life
In Defense.... we cant rule out, the Pods are not quite Plant Life and we have to ask what are those Blue/White Place Holders on the ground near and around those Trees? Surely for the addition of CGI or Prop Work but CGI or Props of What?
"These spores infect several members of the Covenant crew by entering the body through the ear and nostrils. The spores cause the growth of the Neomorphs inside the infected hosts – something that is reminiscent of William Gibson’s first draft of Alien 3"
1) In defense to this part of the leak, its possible as we had been informed by the Infamous Weyland File on the Black Goo to try and Tidy up the mess that was what the hell was going in with the Black Goo... (yet it was not so much a mess) and this File did give the effects of the Goo being Airborne.. The Weyland File can be found HERE
*This file was to explain what happened to Fifield, yet contradicted what was shown in Prometheus, and if we take this File as more Factual... the results of breathing in the Black Goo would eventually lead to Mutation of the Subjects DNA and Re-Code of it and not lead to any Organism that Grows inside.
*However we cant assume the Pods released Spores work the same as the Black Goo as they are not the Black Goo but something supposed to had evolved from it... and so these Pods could release Spore like Nano Organisms that would then grow inside a Host... however we then have to ask how many would grow inside? Why just One Chest/Back Buster.
We get this with Sperm and the Egg as only one Fertilizes the one Egg thats released. But what Parameters would only lead to a Spore like infection only to produce one Organism?
2) The Franchise has prior re-used un-used concepts and ideas that have never been used before but was considered. Why the Prometheus Squid/Trilobite and Urns are all unused concept ideas from Star Beast.
In defense... something like this where a infection leads to the growth of a Organism that will end up in some part of the body be it the Back or Throat could go someway to explain what happened to the LV-223 Engineers and the Holes that appeared at various parts of the Body. Its a theory that i never thought about....
"These spikes and a pointed skull are also used to break out of an embryonic sack (similar to the Deacon in Prometheus)."
This i think is a contradiction and maybe one Nail in the Coffin for this Leak, but that depends on my theory of the Deacon.. which could be wrong... I always felt the Deacon had a Placenta Sack because it was born from a Human/Face Huger Hybrid which is why it also had Enamel Teeth and Hand/Feet like a Human.... because it was now more Mammal than Xenomorph.
In defense.. This does not mean the Organism could not grow inside some kind of Embryonic Sack i just dont think its connected to the Deacon at all.
As far as the description of the resulting Organism... the Neo-Morphs....
Who knows, as i have said its not unusual to re-use any unused concepts and ideas and use them as a basis for something not seen before.
The Baby Head concepts from Prometheus, some of those showed it crawling on small Limbs.... before this Grew Longer and it was able to stand up.
So i think this could be possible as far as the Organism, but i personally think its a bit BLAND..
I dont see how a Back Buster, and a Throat Buster would beat the Alien Chest Buster.
You show me some kind of Pod/Spore that releases Spores into the Air and infects either Males or Females but not Both..... then have a Love Scene, where the infected Human passes something onto a Female Egg to lead to the Organism i can buy that.
Whats better is if a Female is infected... shows Flu like Symptoms, is kept in her room... feels better and her partner and her engage in a Love Scene... and then she Chest Bursts in front her him...
Now that would maybe Beat the Chest Buster... it would re-use the unused Holloway Love Scene Chest Buster but change it a little and it would work more if this Female was Pregnant maybe?
So we get the Pod releases Spores to infect the Pregnant Female.... Yes that would work..
But then i am not the one writing the Draft ;)
Patient LeechFacehuggerMember158 XPOct-25-2016 11:34 AM
Holy sh!t, this sounds awesome.
Patient LeechFacehuggerMember158 XPOct-25-2016 11:40 AM
But you know what, I'm starting to get the feeling that this movie is not going to make any apologies for Prometheus. What I mean is, I doubt it's going to go out of its way to attempt to explain anything that was ambiguous or confusing about Prometheus. So I'm willing to bet it will be even more dividing than Prometheus was. Especially considering how many different writers have been involved.
theDiesektor666FacehuggerMember139 XPOct-25-2016 12:19 PM
hmmm, im not buying this without a legitamate source, it all seems like speculation to me. if you remember while back Ridley said you would see all three stages of alien birth that would feature the egg, the face hugger and the big boy... so im not really convinced about this idea of spores.
RickXenomorphMember1261 XPOct-25-2016 8:48 PM
Big Dave, You have a lot of good information that I like reading. Is there any way you can parse it out a bit? You make it hard to respond to a specific post when it is followed up by 5 more posts by you. Thanks in advance.
Deep SpaceFacehuggerMember320 XPOct-26-2016 3:10 AM
Hope the link works - All this talk of spores reminds me of this!
Always thought this idea could work well in a sci-fi context. Won't be the same, if at all, granted, but the idea of inhaling a parasitic spore that then grows in and then out from you is a very unsettling one to me!
Re. the BBC interview. Hard to say for sure but I would lean towards Fassbender probably letting the term 'slip'. Not going to take the ideas above as gospel just yet, or read too much into them, but giving a new ALIEN a new 'title' seems like a reasonable notion. If it's been banded around on set for months then it would be quite easy to 'pop' out during a myriad of interviews etc for the actor.
Thanks for the link Chris!
Deep SpaceFacehuggerMember320 XPOct-26-2016 6:08 AM
Will add as well that the name 'Neomorph' got me thinking about the 'Xeno Origin' question again.
It suggests to me that the Xeno does indeed come from the black goo (after some twists and turns along the way) rather than being an existing creature that was mutated or experimented upon.
I'm not overly familiar with the comics but a black goo infestation on an organic world is the general vibe I get from what I've seen/read; which results in all manner of Xeno type creatures e.g. sharks (very cool btw :)
So my logic is that the black goo is a kind of mutagen that alters existing DNA to create something genetically 'New' - hence Neo. Thus xenos etc have human characteristics whereas the hammerpede didn't as it hadn't had any human DNA in the chain.
What is really interesting though, to me anyways, is how come the goo seems to cause similar mutations to the animals it comes into contact with?
Perhaps this is where my logic fails as that could suggest an existing DNA template either in the goo, or used to make it (the goo that is)?
It's fun to speculate :)
Cerulean BlueFacehuggerMember446 XPOct-26-2016 9:07 AM
I am very pumped to finally get some good news to our 4, now 5 year wait for answers, so I really hope we have some type of answers for:
1) LV223 (What & Why was it?)
2) Will there be any more Engineers?
Jordyb9191OvomorphMember15 XPOct-26-2016 9:42 AM
Anyone else hoping we get a trailer this weekend or on Halloween? Know it's a long shot but hopefully they will post a little something before the full length trailer is released but here's to hoping something is on the way soon!
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-26-2016 2:31 PM
As far as the Spores and this leak... i will be carrying on the Topic with some ways to see if and how this could fit... pinpointing my reasons for why it seems odd... but then thats not to say its what will happen... just looking at the Biology and how we have seen it work i just feel the way the Spores are described can maybe be done better.
I will quickly highlight this now.
For the Spores to work, we have to wander how many Spores are released and infect the Victims... i doubt it would be 1, so it would be what 10, 50, 500, 5000 actual particles...?
Looking at the Biology are we to assume that a Person inhales a number of Spores that could number hundreds, maybe less maybe more and from these spores only one Organism is grown?
We have to ask how does this work? The Spores start to multiply like a Virus and maybe take on the traits of the hosts DNA and these cells then form together to start to make a Multi-celled Organism?
Why would the Host not end up infected with multiple such Organisms growing inside?
Do the Spores get breathed in and end up moving to the brain or skull area or even top of the respiratory tract and a number of these Spore Cells combine and then from this we get the creation of a Multi-Cell Organism?
1) This is the only logical way that i feel it could work, that its by pure accident, well a combination of needing multiple Spore Cells to combine to create something.
2) The only other logical way and a preferred one by me which goes against the supposed leak... is that the Spores work their way to a Females Womb and infect either a Egg or a Early Stage Pregnancy and this causes the Embryo to become mutated and form into the so called Neomorph.
This option i think could work, and combine it with a Love making or intimate scene of a couple and then a Chest Buster (Belly Buster) would surely work as a way to explain the Pods that release Spores to lead to a Xeno-Type Organism and a Chest Buster rival Scene...
But it is not what the supposed leak is pointing towards.
Some may question how do we get the Egg... this if we are to base it on the Pod/Spore Rumor must be the result of Procreation from the Organism Birthed from the Spore Infection.
Or some other experiment that involved David and the Black Goo.
Or we see the Egg from a past flashback...
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-26-2016 2:40 PM
My post above i explain how this could work, but yes i agree with what you are saying a bit.
Yeah sorry i know i do go into detail a bit and seems like i flood the topics a bit to much, i must have to try
and cut back but i cant promise lol but i do apologize for the clutter.
Interesting video, i like how we see just one Fungus growing from the head, this could apply to the rumor of Spores. But in that video there is a quick shot where it looks like the Ant has other Fungus growing from other parts, which is the only gripe i have witht the Spore theory is how rare is it to only be infected by a single Spore, and if a Spore produces a Organism then would there not be more inside?
My reply above gives a few work arounds this.... i also think the Parasite Kingdom is interesting such as Spores and even Worms that infect Ants and other insects and in effect control them so we get Zombies and Mind control, and Ridley Scott has mentioned before about when we get down to the Micro-Biological World and in particular with Parasites its a pretty hostile world and so his comments could fit with how the Black Goo works or things he wishes to explore which may very well fit in with a potential Spore Infection.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-26-2016 2:56 PM
"What is really interesting though, to me anyways, is how come the goo seems to cause similar mutations to the animals it comes into contact with?"
Deep Space your comments are i feel close to the ball park, we dont know if they are correct but its logical from the clues.. i have covered this countless times in posts relating to how the Goo Works.
I think the Key thing is to look at the ENGINEERS.... what are they doing?
We are led to maybe they created a of Life in the Galaxy, Spaights draft seems to hint their experiments via Sacrificial Goo, is used upon a World that has complex life (we dont know if they created that original life)... Lindeloffs points to them either creating a lot of life at a much further way back in time, definitely as far as their interaction was the Catalyst to Evolve Basic Life to explode and kick start the Evolution to Complex Life.
Why did they use the Sacrificial Route? Ridley Scott said they have other means... but this is how they chose to do so.
So we see them use this Sacrificial Goo which breaks down the Organism that consumes its DNA... the result of this leads to some chemical/genetic soup that goes and infects Organisms where it not only evolves the native Organisms best Traits but it also passes on the DNA traits of the Organism who was Sacrificed to produce this new substance...
Dog Breeders can inbreed various Dogs to make a new Breed, back in time there was not as many breads of dogs, and breeders are experimenting with new kinds and we also get new kinds via accidental procreation by two different breeds.
The Engineers must tinker with life in the same way.... we see that people have cross bred Cats.... but how do you make a Half Cat and Half Dog?
We Scientifically have not been able to achieve this inter species hybrids... Maybe in future with Genetic Science and Gene Manipulation we could do this.
But the Engineers have a method of doing this with the Sacrificial Goo.... they could Sacrifice a Lion.... collect the resulting broken down Chemical Soup and infect a Bull Dog with it and we would in theory (as far as Prometheus shows) we end up with a Lion/Bull Dog Hybrid.
So the bottom line is that indeed the Goo and Xeno are connected.... and connected as follows.
1) The Xenomorph was Sacrificed to produce the Goo, that was used to create similar Organisms and they was too Sacrificed the same and its a continued process until they got the Mural Deacon...
2) A Organism was Sacrificed and the results of experiments by mixing its DNA with different Organisms leads to varied Organisms of which the Xenomorph was one creation and the Black Goo in the Urns another.
3) As of number 2... but the constant experiments and use of Sacrificial Process on these, lead to the DNA in the Black Goo. And at some point this Black Goo leads to the eventual creation of the Xenomorph.
Note.... if the Black Goo in those Urns is what leads to a Xenomorph this does not mean the process of the Deacon at the end leads to the Xenomorph.....
This very same Black Goo has caused a Outbreak prior thousands of years ago... and this could have led to the Xenomorph and so the Xenomorph and Deacon would in effect had evolved from what was contained in those Urns.
I hope this makes sense? i cant say if any is correct its just how the clues have led me to and what also makes a lot of logical sense....
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-26-2016 3:08 PM
1) LV223 (What & Why was it?)
The Million Dollar Question that has a number of reasons, which we maybe dont have the Full Answers... but while i wont go into detail about what this place may have been..
What it became was a place these Engineers had used to conduct various experiments that lead to the Black Goo and in some way the Xenomorph plays a role... in maybe one of the 3 ways i explained in my previous post.
Prior to that it may have been a Nursery/Green House the (Genetic Gardeners) Engineers experimented on various life they was to plant on a world but used this place to test them first... this is just my theory and could be wrong.
2) Will there be any more Engineers?
The Engineer claimed he had not came from LV-223 and we do not know if the Outbreak killed them all, and we dont know what happened to the other Temples as it appeared to be 4-5 of them and we only saw what happened in the One.
There was many more Engineer Ships or so David said.. and what happened to the Engineers who escaped into the Big Head Room? We have no idea really...
We have to ask why they never came back to finish the job, why did they abandon us and this had to be one of the PRIME Questions that Prometheus 2 was set up to answer.
David and Shaw was off to the World of the Engineers, that was the main point of the ending... it would made little sense to find a World with no Engineers... but they was indeed supposed to meet some beings... maybe Engineers, maybe who ever created the Engineers or someone else the Engineers Created but they was going to find related beings.
Now we arrive at Paradise 10 years after David had left and there seems no signs of anything apart from David.. and the evolving creature which the Synopsis and then Ridleys comments suggest.
We have a Scene of Disaster that looks like it features beings related to Engineers if not Engineers, they have to either fit above the Engineers or below the Engineers as maybe a previous Generation that leads to Mankind... if they are not Engineers.
So YES we would see some beings related, even if its only in Flash Back Scenes....
As far as direct interaction like in Prometheus... or even a in deep Scene or a few with Engineers in dialog and interaction with each other...... we cant be sure..
But i would be surprised if we dont get something at the end that leads to a sequal where the Engineers can play a bigger role as far as dedicated screen time.
ChrisEngineerAdmin21915 XPOct-26-2016 3:38 PM
I'm surprised Fox haven't asked us to remove this pretty heavy spoiler. I remember I had a few takedown requests leading up to Prometheus... Perhaps they enjoy igniting the speculation.
As per the recent replies, I love everyone's theory! I plan to open up a topic exploring some of the points mentioned here to further organize the discussion. But a few points I'm intrigued by are:
- If the name and process of these Neomorphs is legitimate, that means the Xenomorph is a creation and evolutionary step from the Black Goo and not the other way around.
- Prometheus predicted the effects of the Black Goo through inhalation and thus explain the process of infection the Covenant crew will endure.
- Why do all Black Goo creations contain similar genetic traits, aesthetically? As mentioned, though they alter the DNA of their respective hosts, certain aspects remain noticeable.
This is when things get interesting. Let the speculation begin!
Something RealTrilobiteMember5639 XPOct-26-2016 3:47 PM
CHRIS PICARD - This is extremely compelling news! I happen to believe that the genetic "strain" that gives rise to the Alien life-forms assimilates the most useful traits from host organisms in order to produce the most efficacious survivor! :)
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-26-2016 6:15 PM
Yes Something Real i have mentioned this before, and its one aspect of the Goo as far as i have made it out... one example the Evolution of maybe the Worms Regenerative Ability that has been Evolved to super fast due to the Xeno Strand.
Only you would really know what was asked to be taken down in the past.... and reasons why this leak and the source information have not been taken down could be that they are Both Inaccurate and so nothing for Fox to worry about, or they are not really to bothered unless more detailed Spoilers arrive.... if either this leak or the Source has some weight to it, then a removal request could well be a sign that they are some what correct and so as long as they do not request the removal of them then they are considered by those who debate about them as merely speculation alone.
As far as the Xeno connection i have considered from a long time ago the clues point to some Origin that acts as both the Progenitor to the Xenomorph and the Black Goo... i had today covered the 3 options as far as the connection as far as i see it... which i could be wrong. But indeed all comments made about the Xenomorph seem to point us to its a Evolutionary Path from the Goo in those Urns on LV-223 or what ever experiment was carried out (on some Organism) to obtain that Black Goo.
If i am to break down Neomorph...
We have Morph which means Form which can apply to variety of different forms ranging from a common ancestor. And so can be used to describe different species of a common Form... and so the Morph in this context represents variations of a Organism. For example there are many Morphs of Chilli Peppers.
Morph can also mean to transform into something else...
When used in context with Xeno- it appears to imply a meaning of Alien-Form. Which shows we are describing a Organism of Alien Shape/Form and Biology. But we can apply the other meanings to any prefix.
And so Neo which means Young, or Newer when combined with Morph would mean New Form, or Young Form.
In context to Fassbenders comment this fits with the Alien Chest Buster Scene when he refereed to Kanes Chest Buster as a Neomorph... which in context means its the Young-Form of the Alien-Form Organism in the movie.
But Neo could fit within context of a new Monster to show us this is a New Form of Xeno or Young as in some kind of Progenitor.
But a more suitable name for a Progenitor if what we see is the True Origin would be Alpha-Morph... Meaning First.
We have to remember though, as far as Origins it depends what they mean... as its a theory that Man Evolved from Apes, and Dinosaurs Evolved into Birds.... but these 4 Organisms Origins are not that.... the Origin to Man and Bird is the same Origin species.. it depends how far back you go in Evolution.
And so when we talk about Xeno-Origins we dont have to be talking about its very early Evolution.... If we TAKE this Analogy i will do now as correct... which may not be.. this is just for a analogy.
Shaws Deacon ==> Xenomorph
Fresco Creature ==>Black Goo
Then the Origin of the Xenomorph we could say traces back to the Deacon... but then further back it would be from the Black Goo which further back could be from the Fresco Creature.
So indeed the Neomorph could apply to any new Monster we are shown.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-26-2016 6:18 PM
"- Prometheus predicted the effects of the Black Goo through inhalation and thus explain the process of infection the Covenant crew will endure"
I see you have made a Topic on this, and i did point out that same Weyland File recently... on this Topic but as a means to suggest its flawed... but it could still be the case.
I will give my reply now to the new Topic you made Here
Something RealTrilobiteMember5639 XPOct-26-2016 6:23 PM
BIG DAVE - Absolutely, my friend! :)
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPOct-27-2016 4:40 PM
I am quite surprised they aren't calling it a MORB.
ChrisEngineerAdmin21915 XPOct-27-2016 4:48 PM
Give it time Aorta, the name will catch on eventually, I'm sure of it haha.
T MINUS 5OvomorphMember50 XPOct-27-2016 4:52 PM
I've just been re-reading William Gibson's Alien 3 script - I wonder if the idea of infective spores was taken from that?
A good read by the way if anyone hasn't.
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPOct-28-2016 6:05 AM
Seems like David has been a busy little android. I do wonder if these pods are because of his experimenting with the goo and other elements of this planet.
Hopefully, a trailer will drop within a few weeks.
ChrisEngineerAdmin21915 XPOct-30-2016 2:49 PM
I don't think the pods are due to David's tampering, but more so from a previous event.
What I'm curious about is, how do David and Shaw avoid these pods when they arrive on the planet? Or are the pods not yet developed then? So many questions...
Dark NebulaXenomorphStaff1187 XPOct-30-2016 3:11 PM
The description says that the pods release spores through the air when disturbed.So I think Shaw and David are smart enough not to come close to them.Shaw might be wearing her helmet on the whole time.
I think that the pods won't react to David since hes a synthetic and the xeno's usually if im not mistaken ignore snythetics and attack only living organisms.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPOct-30-2016 4:20 PM
Indeed Dark Nebula we have been told Alien Covenant would not be like Prometheus as this wont be a Space Suit Movie, which makes sense as Paradise is a very Earth like World.
No Helmets does leave for the potential for infection in that way.
I am still not keen on the Spore theory.... as it has a few problems that while i cant say dont make it seem not plausible... its just IMO not a good way to go..
Unless its the way i had suggested, i think these work better especially the infecting a Pregnant Female and Spore infects her early stage infant or even a Egg so she becomes Pregnant.
But then they could explain it a bit better if they are going the Spore Route where a number of Spores when they are in a body and have access to Genetic Material and Cells.... infect Cells and then these Cells are attracted to each other and combine and then from this they can form to become a Organism.
I prefer this method... than say a single spore can evolve into a Organism Chest/Back/Throat Buster as then we have to ask why do we not see from this leaked rumor... a Host having more than one Organism Bursting out.