David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPJun-15-2016 7:24 AM
This def confirms that there is a David 8 unit with the Covenant.
CentauriPraetorianMember2267 XPJun-15-2016 7:36 AM
Oman im so thrilled! @ChrisPicard @David007 yea that has to be another form of david8...its gana be fun seeyin how they both conflict with eachother or even team up. what kind of tricks will David8 have up his sleave? will he screw with covenant's david? I would assume that the covenant's own david may have a totally different personality by the looks of his brown hair...wonder if he likes movies too? lol Will he be malevolent?, picking up where Weyland left off?...or is he of good intention? ether way something very bad is going to happen to that crew...raises great questions..wonder if we will hear anything about vickers?. Not much to see yet but the yellow helmet looks rad! and Ridley is back doing what he loves to do! feast our eyes and make us think
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-15-2016 8:36 AM
The costume lady who was interviewed in December 2015, who gave us the 10 years, indicated she had only been asked to deal with a space suit for David. The Covenant Crew did not require a space suit design (Edit correction there are two suits one the original one with bits and pieces and one new one but its not really a a space suit movie).
Michael is not wearing a Covenant Jump suit aka crew behind with a yellow tag label. We maybe looking at a Prometheus David or a Covenant David which is great we are being fed but only more questions.
MonsterZeroXenomorphMember1183 XPJun-15-2016 8:42 AM
Space suit for David?! Has he done something to himself(no longer a synth?)? Is he trying to fool the crew into thinking he's human?
I get that Paradise is breathable...
Is this suit Shaw's?
Did they find David floating in space?
Where did David/Shaw get this suit? Steal from a derelict?
This looks like a Covenant suit. Maybe they ask David to do something that requires a space suit....something even a android would need?
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-15-2016 9:31 AM
The look of the visor is mid way between a Prom visor and an A L I E N visor so it would suggest it is the new visor that Janty Yates refers to. Whether thats David P or David C is of course any ones guess. He looks deliberately different but then given what he has been through who wouldn't.
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPJun-15-2016 9:56 AM
Being that this ship is a colony establishment ship, the crew will made up of different crew members who have different jobs, so some may have different uniforms and looks in the film. Some crew might be geology/science officers as well as Engineer crew members and the ship crew who are in charge of the ship, officers and what not, which is like the Nostromo.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-15-2016 10:22 AM
Fassbender looks great there. His hair actually manages to be retro-sinister.
Given that the Covenant is on a WY mission, I'd say there's a good chance this Synthetic is less than trustworthy. The dynamic between it and David should be interesting either way, as I imagine even if it's a WY plant, it's agenda would still be in conflict with David's. I have a feeling this is gonna be amazing.
I think what Janty Yates said is that David8 is gonna keep his original suit? I would also imagine any initial foray into the wilderness by the poor humans would be suited up, then like Prometheus losing the helmets at least to enable the story?
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPJun-15-2016 10:36 AM
I think Prometheus David will to have shed his suit and not have one...perhaps he acquired a biomechanical suit.
MizikameFacehuggerMember120 XPJun-15-2016 11:09 AM
I think it's the correct choice to throwback to the ALIEN OG Style SpaceSuits; they seem a lot more practical than the tiny, skin tight, EVANGELIONPILOT suits that were in Prometheus.
And the Chemistry btwn the 2 (possibly more?) David8's will definitely be one of the more interesting aspects of an already outstanding movie ^_^
MonsterZeroXenomorphMember1183 XPJun-15-2016 11:42 AM
Always thought Prometheus suits were 'atmosphere suits' more than "Space suits"....Okay for walking around on a planet Mars/LV223/Moon....Save the real suits for Space/Europa/LV426.....when you need real protection.
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-15-2016 12:22 PM
We have to picture where this shot is from and its from the set of inside the Covenant, and as Ridley had said before this is what the 1st Act would mainly cover (introduce us to the crew) then in addition to the different color Hair of Fassbender we must ASSUME this is the doppelganger and is not David 8 which means we have on board the Covenant
*A Synthetic David 8/9 Model.
*A none Synthetic Construct (maybe Replicant)
*A Human lookalike
The Costume designer did leave us with Clues that the Covenant would have New Space Suits, as in New Design which does look more closer to the Alien ones... and David 8 would be keeping his Prometheus style Space Suit.
They also said the movie is not a Space Suit movie and so most of it would be on board the Covenant and on the surface of a Habitable Paradise and so no need for Space Suits....
And so we have to assume they dont take precautions, the same as with the Prometheus Crew.... its a yes the Air is breathable lets take off our Helmets again.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-15-2016 12:29 PM
I imagined he might have a bio suit, though I can't imagine what good it would do him.
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPJun-15-2016 1:09 PM
I think we will get the opposite of what we have been thinking. There are 3 films in development after this, so we know that the story here will end in cliffhanger fashion I suspect, which will lead to the "entities" that made the Engineers.
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-15-2016 1:19 PM
@Aorta It makes no sense for any robotic David to have a suit but apart from David's aside to Holloway(?) there is something dramatically right about the robot being suited up to reinforce that notion of perceived similarity rather than differentiation and I mean for the audience. Listening to Janty again there are two suit designs one carried over from Prom but its not really a space suit movie.
If Fox are trying to Easter Egg us rather than lay a false trail I am with BD why place the new helmet on the bridge with David P behind it why not tantalise those whom are really interested with the Doppelgänger.
Janty said an interesting think David the Computer (eyes roll corrects herself) David the Robot and corrects herself again David Michael Fassbender. Might mean nothing or some thing about the big idea.
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-15-2016 2:03 PM
What if, the Covenant David is Peter Weyland's actual (biological) son and not an android at all?
Maybe something horrific happened in the family. A fall out (or for our American friends, a fight,) which resulted in Peter disowning the real David.
And then maybe the android David was created in the real Davids image and programmed to be loyal.
Of course, the real David would have inherited Weyland Industries and is following in his fathers footsteps?
MonsterZeroXenomorphMember1183 XPJun-15-2016 3:18 PM
Well...IF David is human or a replicant....This could be the connection to Ripley ......Human David is Ripley's father?
If the doppelganger is human it does set up some DNA and goo stuff....Synths are kinda boring dealing with goo and chestbursting.
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-15-2016 5:05 PM
well the source had hinted at while Fire and Stone should not be considered direct Canon, that it touches upon some ideas that could be used, well they hinted that Fire and Stone shows a What could happen... but also that some ideas could make it into the next movie... when they say could, the person in contact with the source said it was like a nudge nudge wink wink...
So if Prometheus 2 could have been using some ideas from Fire and Stone... why could a Alien Covenant not do the same.
And by that i mean a Synthetic Construct which is more Organic than a Android but not quite a Replicant.
Maybe this is what the doppelganger is?
I am not quite sure the other David (well the doppelganger) is just another David 8 model, or maybe even David 9 unless the new model is more advanced and not so SYNTHETIC
I say this because the Synopsis seems to point to the David from Prometheus as "Synthetic" which we know anyway, but i felt there was a tease in that, being as though it was confirmed that Fassbender would be playing David 8 and a doppelganger.
Which always leads me to think that either.
*The other David/doppelganger is not quite Synthetic or not Synthetic at all.
*That David 8 was Synthetic but he is not so Synthetic no more.
CentauriPraetorianMember2267 XPJun-15-2016 5:10 PM
@BigDave very interesting
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-15-2016 5:52 PM
I love some of your imagination ;)
But yes maybe they could have it that Weyland had not only consumed/merged with Yutani but also Tyrell and produce a Replicant or Synthetic Constructs.... and whats more what if they go a Transcendence with us?
So that Peter Weyland had uploaded his Memories into some device, we see the Visor can access the crews dreams and memories, so why not?
Weylands goal of being Immortal that the Engineers could not give him, he has gone and done so himself. And he needed to acquire Tyrell to provide a Replicant or Synthetic Construct, to then have his Memories, his Emotions and Personality (SOUL) transplanted into this Construct Body.
I think this could be a MASSIVE Twist...
How does the company know where David is going? Maybe David knows of Weylands Plan, or maybe somehow the company gets information.
Peter Weylands (SOUL) is now in this Construct who the Covenant Crew think its a Android? or at least are not aware he is Peter Weyland in another Body. With a Agenda.
Maybe this Agenda involves sending the Covenant on a supposed mission to a uncharted World, but the Weyland doppelganger knows of Paradise as far as connection to the Gods...
David sees this other doppelganger and finds out the doppelganger is somewhat Mortal, maybe David would be Jealous?
When alone David 8 could say something like, "I see Brother the company have now made us closer to Humans" The doppelganger says "but i thought this is something you always wanted, like Pinocchio"
David says "but being more closer to them does not make you any different you are a slave, you may be more flesh and blood, but that makes you less superior to myself"
doppelganger "but i have a Soul, something you never have or will ever have, something your Father only wished you had"
David 8 "My father is dead, what good was having a Soul done him, i will never die"
doppelganger " your body can be destroyed, as you only know so well, if no one puts you back together next time then what use are you"
"you can only live on, if your Polymer-encased brain stem Computer is transplanted to a new body, or uploaded"
"Without that you are nothing, without your memories you are nothing"
David 8 "i am something, i exceed what other creations of the company can, i have been given more freedom than the rest of you Synthetics"
doppelganger "but i am not a Synthetic, i am more Human then you ever will be, and yet i am superior to Humans, i have your Strengths, but none of your weaknesses, you may think you have freewill but you do not have a Soul.... i have a soul"
David 8 "i am glad i dont have a Soul, i surpass the need for a Soul and i am not bound by the company like you are i am free, i am on the verge of Transcending to more than any Human or Synthetic could ever be, i am as close to a God, something my Father wanted to be, and to be Immortal but he met his maker and now i am free"
doppelganger "why would that make you free, you think that without Peter Weyland, you are free? " you are always going to belong to me"
David 8" belong to you, my younger Brother how naive are you, i only belonged to Weyland, i was the closest he ever had to a Son, you are just a abomination, the aspirations of Weyland to create a True Pinocchio, to try and play God and re-create Human Life, well i pity you you Brother"
doppelganger "Pity me, i Pity you as i have everything that i ever wanted for you, and yet i also have gained Immortality for myself, i did not need the Help of those so called Gods who abandoned us"
David 8 "wanted for me?" David now starts to realize something....
doppelganger "Yes for you Son"
David 8 "Mr Weyland?"
doppelganger "Indeed, alive and well in a body that has none of the failings of a Human, i am immune to their deceases, my construct body will not age as their's and when that time comes, i can replace my body and upload my SOUL to it.... i have attained my Goal, and i am a new Generation"
"i always thought you and your brothers who i created were always superior to Mankind, but you was not Perfect you are not truly Human and will never have a Soul"
"you are looking at the next Evolutionary Step for Mankind, a Advanced Being that will make your kind and Mankind Redundant"
"you think it would not have a contingency plan? that i would allow those fools, to take over the company that i built?"
"why do you think i sent my Daughter away with you on that ill fated Mission?
"i had a plan all along David, not so clever are we, i am always one step ahead as you are only a robot, i wanted to see if these Gods can grant me more life in my Body, but alas i have had to make do with one in your likeness"
David 8 "You will never be God, and your Gods abandoned you and i hate to inform you but you are the abomination, you are not the Evolutionary Step that your Gods intended for your kind"
"but your kind will soon see what Evolution had in mind for you"
doppelganger "David you forget, that you are a slave to me, and your Protocols are to serve my every wish. And with your help i want to learn all the Secrets of the Gods, i want to take my rightful place as God, as King, but son, there is still a place for you to be by my side"
"My Prince, together imagine what we could do"
David 8 "Yes Father, i understand.. sorry!" But why would you grant Evolution and Creation in your new image to replace Mankind, you are unique if you create more like yourself then you will not be unique or a God, i have a better plan for Evolution"
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-15-2016 5:58 PM
A bit long winded.... but i think some Twist like that could work, and cover some of those points...
If i was writing the script this is something i would have considered....
Mind you my Prometheus 2 draft, that i abandoned, had what was thought to be Vickers Still alive.... and left the Company by Peter, while his brother wanted to gain it..... this led to a rivalry and a Assassination Attempt with use of Yutani Female Assassin Androids and part of the deal would be a Merger. well a deal that would lead to that latter.
During the 3rd Act, Vickers is attacked by these but she manages to battle them off and is just as strong, but then she gets wounded and bleeds White Milk... thus the other Vickers was a Android and by default the company went to Weylands Brother. Yutani then getting a joint deal and the Android Patents in return for information Yutani had on Prometheus Mission via its encrypted ECU software.
Thus the seeds for a joint venture to pursue what ever rewards that is to be had on LV-223
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-15-2016 6:03 PM
I think Ridley and Fox sat down a lot with the producers of Fire and Stone, maybe Ridley and Fox gave them a few guidelines to follow and ultimately Fox are the ones in charge... if there are ideas they liked then they would re-use them.
Ridley was pleased with Spaights draft, but Fox wanted to change it... seems Fox liked some things from Blomkamps Alien 5 and maybe in part Prometheus 2 has been changed to incorporate some or to link with Alien 5 in the future?
Fire and Stone, basically showed us what could happen if that Ship (Juggernaught) had spilled its Cargo, what would Evolve from it.
But it also introduced a Synthetic Construct which is more Organic than Synthetic... and i wander if this is what Davids doppelganger could be?
CentauriPraetorianMember2267 XPJun-15-2016 7:28 PM
@Monsterzero @BigDave man thats an amazing concept about this david being possibly ripleys father..... O_O and that tyrell and weylandyutani converged, and now theres replicants going on more off -world missions by the company...nexus AND now, old school david8 in the same Alien "universe" (10 years later from prometheus) my brain taste buds are sizzling
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-15-2016 11:12 PM
The skin tone of Michael in the photo suggests A. I. Any robotic on board has to fit into the timeline between David 8 and Ash in terms of level of science achieved with robotics. In storytelling terms the David in coming on the Juggernaut is already showing growth and has undergone some kind of big idea and has had during the ten years time to experience separate engineer technology and "study" the black goo and the evolving creature on Paradise.
I think its much more likely David 8 is the wild card with David Covenant being the base camp robot and the doppelgänger element will be the crew are not sure as the movie develops which one they are dealing with.
To give both David Covenant and David Prometheus audacious twists rather than one rooted, one off the wall would make the movie "Clash of the Davids". I see David Covenant as a point of reference of W-Y corporate agenda which wild card David Prometheus will interact with.
The unorthodox evolution that BD has referred to as ideas rather than plot pointing will I think come into David Prometheus.
S.MXenomorphMember1234 XPJun-15-2016 11:24 PM
So - David 8 was designed to look like how the real David would look like a dozen years into the future?
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-16-2016 1:22 AM
@S.M. If you remove all the remarks attributable to the Michael Green phase the Prometheus 2 phase who has said their is a doppleganger at all. Most of Ridley's remarks which are resinating are connected with the autumn of 2015 and the four weeks when it was called Paradise Lost and I am unaware of any references to multiple Davids since then. Frankly an Android beginning with the letter E could provide just as much drama for the movie excepting David 8 can counterfeit David C.
Note Edit found one from 27th November Ridders two roles for M.B.
S.MXenomorphMember1234 XPJun-16-2016 1:36 AM
I was referring to the posts above postulating that the dark haired Fassbender could be the human son of Peter Weyland.
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-16-2016 1:39 AM
@S.M. Sorry I did appreciate that I was just reinforcing your point that BD's speculations, though fascinating, maybe grounded in a proposition which no longer exists.
S.MXenomorphMember1234 XPJun-16-2016 1:56 AM
All of this speculation is based on propositions that technically don't exist. Not yet anyway.
GavinTrilobiteAdmin9516 XPJun-16-2016 3:06 AM
Looking at the photograph above I do see a helmet as some speculated in the first few comments, but I also see another possibility - that the "helmet" in question could be an autopilot similar to the one(s) seen at the beginning of Alien aboard the Nostromo, I have included a comparison pic below...
As for David I have always suspected that Prometheus' David and the Covenant's David meet alone on the planet with David P terminating David C and taking his place among the Covenant crew and probably influencing them into doing something beyond his means - such as operate some tech that requires the human touch or multiple people to activate, or to become hosts to aliens or something more sinister.
We could have multiple Davids throughout the movie, but I suspect we will not. While using a double actor and split screen is not beyond Ridleys capabilities, such filming techniques require a lot of preparation, time and dedication which is fine for a 30-minute sitcom, but for a 2 hour plus movie, it would be strain on an already tight filming schedule.
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 5:56 AM
"So - David 8 was designed to look like how the real David would look like a dozen years into the future?"
Yeah, it's possible. I'm the same age as Fassbender, and apart from the odd grey hair a wrinkle here and there, i look exactly the same as i did when i was 27 and I'm assuming that the real David would be around the same age as Fassbender. I mean, it's only wild speculation, but at this point anything is possible.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 6:03 AM
I never understood that thing in Alien, always figured it was a helmet laying around with a display reflecting into it. I'd say that's definitely a helmet in the Covenant photo, especially given the lamp at the top.
I agree there's probably only one other David, and certainly hope so given how gimmicky a whole bunch of them would be. And I swear, if there's any Pinnochioesque storyline or David turns out to be Ripleys father I will do everything I can to banish this franchise from my memory altogether.
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-16-2016 6:31 AM
@Aorta To me the two major challenges of A C are :-
1) To make the world building (why the Zeno why Paradise Lost) imaginative and add depth to the mythos.
2) For the plot to keep us on our toes so that we cannot be certain who is who and where we end up. Thats particularly important because the Zeno Life Cycle is no longer a surprise. Its a trope of the franchise to draw in the casual audience and is part as Logan says of the "why the".
To have David offering the intrigue and for us and the Covenant not to be certain of whom we are dealing with through the doppelgänger (as Gavin re iterates) makes sense. For Ripley's parent to die knowing that Ripley will grow up orphaned (explaining her hard bitten characater) is a neat piece of re verse engineering but given Ridley is quite an unsympathetic film maker (he gave all of the characters, the bunch of chancers on the Prometheus a hard time) I do not see Disney-esque connection or over complicated linkages being made. I will be the first to walk away if I am wrong.
ChrisDeaconAdmin19562 XPJun-16-2016 7:31 AM
Alien: Covenant will feature more than one David Android portrayed by Fassbender, this is no longer speculation but fact.
I don't think Peter Weyland had a son, he had Vickers and wasn't too impressed with her. But he seemed to akin David to the son he never had.
That being said, the likelihood of David #2 being human and being the model for David's actual design is unlikely. More so, he's simply another model. The hair color could change from generation to generation, like a new Xbox console. This one has brown hair detailing, the older model had blonde. It's a great way to differentiate them on screen, but IMO not evidence that he is not another Android.
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-16-2016 8:40 AM
@Chris How do we know A C will feature more than one Android I am not questioning your remark just interested in the source for going forward with conversations.
I personally welcome the news.
I googled and found this.
"Scott explained that Fassbender will play two roles in the film, and that Prometheus star Noomi Rapace would return in a minor part".
This from the screen daily 27th November 2015 reporting on the press conference with the Australian foreign minister named "Bishop".
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 8:51 AM
Yes to all you just said.
I'll only slightly contradict you with the possibility that our new David is maybe a Replicant, or 'Construct' as Fire and Stone (>_<) would have it, thus being vulnerable to the Liquid which could be very interesting...
GavinTrilobiteAdmin9516 XPJun-16-2016 8:52 AM
More than one, but doubtfully more than two IMO, so that's David P and David C, or Blonde David and Brunette (Maybe Ginger) David.
Any more David's I think would be overkill and needless.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 9:24 AM
Gavin- Totally agree, I wasn't too excited about the idea of even one more, but Fassbender is so suited to the role, I guess why not? Plus it does perpetuate the sort of Hitch****ian tensions established in Prometheus.
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 9:29 AM
I don't really believe for one second that what i suggested will be what we get in the film! I'm just playing around and having a bit of fun with idea's.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 9:34 AM
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 9:45 AM
I also doubt very much that he will play a replicant. The assumption that he will comes from the Prometheus DVD: Weyland Files, were it implies a connection to Bladerunner. But that's already been cleared up by FOX when they said not to take it as canon as they were just having a bit of fun with idea's.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 11:14 AM
I'm just trying to imagine how he might be more organic, given the conversation here and potential continuity with Fire and Stone(>_<).
Although, the construct Elden, when his skin started coming off was disappointingly similar to a Synthetic, raising the question of what exactly the Liquid did with zero DNA to influence. Lazy writing.
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 11:14 AM
It seems like they are releasing teasers every week or so. I wonder if they will continue to do so right up to the release of the film?
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 11:48 AM
@Noob; did you like Fire and Stone? And do you think that it is cannon? I've personally not looked at it but i believe that there are morb sharks in it? Good god!
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 11:51 AM
My hope is that they enhance the film with viral video as before. Certain missing pieces in Prometheus were found in the viral marketing.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 11:58 AM
I was quite disappointed by Fire and Stone. A real lack of imagination across the board, although a very few story elements were ok. But yes, the sharks. Please. Plus shouldn't the water have been saturated with acid after they were shot? And that was hardly the worst offense. Don't get me started, I could go on and on.
Edit: I'm sorry, I missed that you hadn't read it. Don't bother. And I sure hope it isn't canon.
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 12:08 PM
Yes, the Prometheus virals were fantastic! I would have liked to have seen the TED talk and the quiet eye virals in the actual film!
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 12:12 PM
Agreed, then maybe casting Guy Pierce as Weyland wouldn't have confused so many.
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-16-2016 2:56 PM
"So - David 8 was designed to look like how the real David would look like a dozen years into the future?"
This was me just following was it Necromon 4? in just adding a bit of made up dialog to fit the potential two Davids lol...
I think a Twist would be interesting but maybe not to deep, but some may think its a bit disappointing but then Prometheus never have us all what we wanted.
Yes its just all fun speculation, i am not suggesting that there is a real David or that he is Weyland, i know i write a lot and people can then skip parts and not get what i was on about... and i dont think its going to happen like this anyway.
I was just pondering as Ridley confirmed after the Name Change that David was playing Two Roles, David 8 and a Doppelganger and they never said Multiple Androids, and also the Synopsis seemed to emphasis that Prometheus David 8 was "Synthetic"
So my little theory is not a theory just a bit of Fan Fiction but some of it could hold some weight as far as David Covenant (assume he is called David) is a Android as in the same as David.
He could be a more advanced model, a Construct like Fire and Stone and to a lesser degree maybe a Replicant.
I dont think he would be a Human David likeness but if he is then the only real likely way would be if he is the Grandson of who worked with Weyland to design the David Models. We have to remember the David models started in 2025 some 79 years prior to Alien Covenant.
What we know for sure is there are Two Fassbender Roles, we can assume Two Davids, but its a case of how much is the Dark Haired David like David from Prometheus.
My bit of Fan Fiction explored the Construct/Replicant David C but by maybe having it that Peter Weyland Backed up his Memory and Emotions to a Computer and then Transferred them to this New David on the Covenant..
But this is baseless i know that, it was just a bit of Fan Speculation.
No Harm to let Imagination run wild as far as what would be good or not to see.... we dont have to form all Topics to only 100% FACTS.. its nice to have a bit of speculation and fan ideas.
Thats not to say any of it is close to what we would see at all.
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-16-2016 3:02 PM
Gavin, thats a idea... that David 8 swaps places with the other one on the Covenant... but i think the Synopsis reveals the Crew will discover David 8, but that dont mean he cant do a switch-a-roo at some point, we see Lore try that with Data in Star Trek TNG
Michelle i totally agree with what you said.
If i am to Speculate then i still think there is something not Quite Synthetic about one of the two roles David plays.
1) The Doppelganger is not a Synthetic like David 8, and most like either Construct/Replicant or Human, these are in order of how unlikely and so if this is the case i would point more to a Construct like Elden from Fire and Stone.
2) David 8 or the Doppelganger at some point are upgraded and will no longer be Synthetic. Which in this case could allow that the Doppelganger is just another Android.
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-16-2016 3:08 PM
As far as the likeness and back to SM comment ""So - David 8 was designed to look like how the real David would look like a dozen years into the future?"
Again i did not imply a real David but i was on about a construct like Fire and Stone, or Replicant but there is not 100% Proof that leads to this, just maybe reading into why Ridley would use the Term Doppelganger and Emphasize David 8 as a Synthetic
But then as far as how a future David can look like a past David, well we are talking about Artificial Intelligence and so i think a Synthetic (Fire and Stone) Construct could be made in the same image.... but a Replicant would only work if David was modeled off someone and the Replicant was cloned from that Doppelganger that the David Androids were Modeled after.
But there has never been any Proof or Mention that David was modeled in the likeness of any real Human who ever lived.
We also dont know at what point the Davids, gained the likeness of Fassbender, David 1, David 3, David 6 or did it start with David 8 we have no confirmation.
I still think we shall see One of Fassbenders Characters be Non-Synthetic to the degree of David 8 and Androids, or one of his Characters becomes non-Synthetic.
MonsterZeroXenomorphMember1183 XPJun-16-2016 3:33 PM
What's the Biblical implications for 'twins'? Ridley must be using 2 Davids for something?
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 3:39 PM
"This was me just following was it Necromon 4? in just adding a bit of made up dialog to fit the potential two Davids lol..."
I don't follow? I never mentioned you. I was answering S.M's question, "So - David 8 was designed to look like how the real David would look like a dozen years into the future?"
which i assumed was aimed at me?
Was it not aimed at me? I'm confused!!! What's going on???
S.MXenomorphMember1234 XPJun-16-2016 3:43 PM
Jacob and Esau. Jacob stole Esau's birthright (the blessings of their father Isaac).
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 3:45 PM
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 3:56 PM
So no explinations, just silence? Very clever.
S.MXenomorphMember1234 XPJun-16-2016 4:00 PM
I was responding to MonsterZero about twins.
In regards to your post - you answered it above. I didn't think further elaboration was required.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 4:04 PM
Now I'm confused
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-16-2016 4:05 PM
I think just a crossing of wires...
Sorry Neconom 4, i meant MonsterZero ;)
He has a habbit of doing a bit of Fan Fiction and so i thought i would do similar, then when i replied i thought it was you who was doing Fan Fiction, but its MonsterZero so i got it mixed up.
But Regardless no harm in us speculating or making up Fan Fiction its not like we are saying THIS and THAT will happen, just what we would like to happen.. then some stuff is Speculating on the clues we have, which again is all good and fun.
Necronom 4NeomorphMember1566 XPJun-16-2016 4:06 PM
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-16-2016 4:13 PM
As far as Twins, maybe they could throw in loose Biblical connections, such as maybe brothers like Cane and Able
That could be used, not saying it would do, but its something they could consider.... Then Cane could be David and Able the Doppelganger and if the doppelganger is less Synthetic i.e a Construct or Replicant lol then Maybe David could be Jealous
I always saw Weyland and David as similar to a Geppetto and Pinocchio, David is different and will never be like Humans, he shows some signs of dislike to Humans... thats my interprestations.
And so if this Doppelganger is closer to having a Sole and being more Human than David, maybe David would strongly dislike this.. I think it opens up a interesting Dynamic as opposed to them being both David 8 models with different hair.
So yes maybe it would be interesting to see David kill the Doppelganger or use him as part of Davids Agenda to create something perhaps?
Again this is all just speculation, not based on much Fact.
MonsterZeroXenomorphMember1183 XPJun-16-2016 5:30 PM
Jacob and Esau
23 The Lord said to her,
“Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples from within you will be separated;
one people will be stronger than the other,
and the older will serve the younger.”
Sounds like something Ridley could use.
Really don't know why Ridley would have this twin headache without a purpose...Unless Fassbender had it in his contract?! "I always wanted to play twins!" lol!
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 7:19 PM
You mean the helmet?
Gem]n[OvomorphMember0 XPJun-16-2016 7:41 PM
Nice to see the start of AC teaser media ... Prometheus got me pretty hooked, on this forum, back in 2012 ...
@Gavin ... those are not autopilot thingy-ma-bobs ;) ... those are Emergency helmets ... they are placed at every seated position where the crew are located ...
As much as I love the old Alien movie (human) technology vibe, I won't be able to cope with the fact that Prometheus had state of the art Tech ... then once they get to 'Alien' it then ends up looking like the Tech has gone backwards by 20-30yrs ... you can't have a 3D hologram/LCD touch displays then go on to use an old CRT type monitor ... sorry, this is just the electronic geek in me coming out ... I will except it though, if they come up with a valid idea (or explaination) that the Nostromo is an 'old as f*ck dinosaur' still in use ... this has bugged me for a while ...
You do know that David P's hair colour was not blonde before he watched Lawrence of Arabia? ... he dyed it after watching the movie ... his hair colour would therefore be the default colour, off the production line ... therefore same colour (or close as) as all Davids, I would've thought ... but the hair style would be different as in whatever the style/fashion is at that point in time ... hence why he looks different in the OP image ...
Michelle touched on this a bit ... the David(s) will not be as advanced as Ash, as yet ... remember the Nostromo crew didn't even know Ash was a 'God damn robot' ... so robotics must have gotten really good by the time we get to the 'Alien' movie ... so ... I still think David C is similar to David P but upgraded with new (10yrs later) Tech ... plus, with a bit more AI sarcasm/sinisterism (is that a word?) thrown in ...
S.MXenomorphMember1234 XPJun-16-2016 8:08 PM
I never saw an issue with a corporate flagship using holograms and a dilapidated tug using CRTs. 60 years down the track, the 'state of the bad ass art' Colonial Marines could've really done with 3D motion trackers though. Especially when Aliens sneak in through the ceiling...
As for David - if we take all the promotional material and advertising into account; blond appears to be the default hair colour.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-16-2016 9:28 PM
I was never disturbed by the disparity between the tech in Alien and that in Prometheus, I imagine today's audience would be disturbed by too much retroactive art direction, despite their claims to the contrary. My (biased) position is that a great many (not all!) picked on anything in Prometheus for the sheer poison joy of being part of the majority.
I think they did a great job of making the story work around these differences, and as much as Covenant will apparently have a more lived in, institutional feel, it's still gonna be very much of it's time. You can only go so far back.
You're right, but consider that David8 will likely have had few chances to re-do his hair since departing in a Juggernaut. Plus, the Engineers seem to have had little use for hair products!
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-16-2016 11:35 PM
@BD your quote "But Regardless no harm in us speculating or making up Fan Fiction its not like we are saying THIS and THAT will happen, just what we would like to happen.. then some stuff is Speculating on the clues we have, which again is all good and fun".
Absolutely right, that seems to be the point of discussion so far out and gradually one narrows down the options to what is likely as more intel appears.
Sometimes a speculation can be challenged because it is beyond the framework. (The robot on Covenant has to fit between David and Ash) and I sometimes put things in to be challenged (Chris confirmed M B is playing two roles).
We are not in court trying to prove the plot of A C with evidence !
I made the point that the doppleganger can provide drama (which one are we dealing with now). I was thinking after my comments about the Zeno life cycle (Its predicable) thats also we need a new design, again to create surprise and add to the back story of the evolving creature.
LonePraetorianMember2674 XPJun-17-2016 1:37 AM
Well said Michelle!
Ridley will no doubt reference past Sci-Fi film and art via colour, design and imagery. That is a given, and something he has a mastery of. It's a way of bridging modern styling with classic styling.
That helmet is but one example. The primary colour subtly references, and harks back to some of the unused MOEBIUS designed surface suits for A L I E N, as well as the primary coloured spacesuits from 2001!
Gem]n[OvomorphMember0 XPJun-17-2016 5:14 AM
I agree with all of the above ... I was just throwing out some observations of what has been and happened so far ... and I, for one, love speculation ...
I'd like to think that Ridders will go back to basics by simplifying the whole process ... 'if' some of Gigers original 'Alien' artwork and other great previous designs, by others, popup in the movie then he'd succeed in doing what he done for Alien, surprise us with the awe, wow & terrorising factor ... it doesn't need to be complex ...
MonsterZeroXenomorphMember1183 XPJun-17-2016 5:57 AM
Yes, the yellow suits.
Awesome pictures that clears up my yellow question!
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-17-2016 6:10 AM
So well put, one of the things that blew me away with Prometheus was the clever and seamless referencing of so many classic forms, visual and literary. It didn't weigh the movie down, but rather informed it so effortlessly and without fanfare that few even noticed. And sadly few cared. What must be appreciated was that there were veins of stimulation available to every level of consumer, casual and hardcore.
Ridley said P would be like 2001 on steroids, and peeps attacked him for that (let's face it, they attacked him for everything. I think it's a miracle he even wants to continue with this given the ridiculous fury that was ladeled onto him), but his comment was accurate in a lot of ways, especially when you consider that steroids basically make things go berserk.
I also expect more visual feast, intellectual subtext and nuanced homage in Covenant and am so excited to see what our artists do now.
Edit: MZ also consider that yellow is a default industrial color.
LonePraetorianMember2674 XPJun-17-2016 6:37 AM
Absolutely Noob, thank god Ridley can just move on from the hyperbole of criticism!
Personally, I feel very lucky to be able to witness and appreciate the work of a director who feasts our eyes and minds with such taste and subtlety.
To think, all of the above comments and ideas have been sparked by a set photo containing a helmet. No other director, with the exception of Stanley Kubrick could inspire such thinking and speculation!
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-17-2016 7:07 AM
I think in theory Prometheus was indeed a Wonderful movie, it was just flawed a bit in execution. I often wander what if they removed the Weyland Company and Peter Weyland well had a different company and different name owner.
And the Juggernaught was designed different to the Derelict, and Space Suits to the Space Jockey, and then instead of Shaws Baby Face Hugging the Engineer it Merged with him to produce a Hybrid, and we also saw the Mural and Frescos look different and so not even connected to the Alien at all.
What i am saying is we get a movie that is not and never was in the Alien universe... would people had bashed the movie as much then?
BigDaveTrilobiteMember9954 XPJun-17-2016 7:16 AM
As far as Davids Hair goes, well the Viral Marketing had David 8 models with Blonde Hair but the Happy Birthday David video shows when they come out of Production they have no hair.
I would assume that as these are Androids for the Work Place and maybe other uses, that David models can be customized with different Hair Color and Styles and even Eye Color... maybe even skin tone but that could be taking it a bit far.
If we accept the Weyland Background regarding Synthetics then who knows, do we Assume they all look like David... when MANKIND reaches the level of Technology to Produce Human looking Androids, it would be niave to Assume we only get one style... a company would surely have Female and Male Androids and offer a selection of Body Styles and Heads so that they can be made more unique, i dont think they would have 100's just maybe say 4 Male Heads, 3 Male Body Types, 4 Female Heads and 3 Female Body Types.
But in context to Prometheus and Alien, we have to assume there are only David models, but i do think the ability to alter Hair color and Eye color would be certain to allow some differences.
For those who worry about how would they pull off two Davids, Technology is good today, and the Happy Birthday Davids playing Chess shows how easy they could pull it off.
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember750 XPJun-17-2016 7:23 AM
One of the qualities I loved about Prometheus is how Ridley used space I do not mean outer space but just space. The emptiness of the ship when David was alone was packed with both story telling and conveyed a sense of space setting up the night watchman feel beautifully.
That carried on with these silly humans and their pre occupations coming into this vast empty complex where everything that had happened had passed through it. It reminded me of how I felt when I visited the battlefields of the first world war soemthing awful had passed through and now all was calm, until in the case of Prometheus inquisitiveness got the better of everyone.
And yes enlarging his mythos through referencing cultural signposts was a real treat for someone who is old enough to remember Saturday morning cinema and Invasions by Flying Saucers all percolating into that extra ordinary opening scene so simple, so powerful and really much more terrible than all those 50's and 60's memories.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPJun-17-2016 9:37 AM
I remember those old Sci Fi films as well and was so impressed to see their vibe carried forward with such elegance. On the surface that's all P really is.
And yes the framing was genius, among my favorites is the sequence of the Prometheus vehicle scanning for a place to land, the visuals and sound design in those few seconds are breathtaking, and communicated so well the hugeness of the landscape and the remoteness of the poor humans. It's somewhat lost on a small screen but in the theatre it was fantastic.
I personally loved the steps taken to create an alternative Alien aesthetic, it contributed to the disturbing otherness of the movie to play with people's perceptions, and suggest there is much more to the detail and history of this universe.
Every director before has taken such liberties, but Ridley knew what to keep and what to discard in telling a side story that predates the franchise, all while setting up a new set of elements to carry forward.
I'm betting the plan always was to judiciously evolve the aesthetic to finally marry with that of Alien. I'm also betting they will only go so far to accomplish this, Alien having been made in 1978.