Alien Movie Universe

Garden01 The eden tree

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V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerFeb-27-2018 5:27 PM

This frame expresses a hidden opinion every time I look at it.
analyzing the image we see the two characters that represent the opposite of the other, but it is the context where they are inserted to represent their inequality.
Walter is disconcerted and doubtful in the face , while David is sure of himself, but he turns his back to the garden like a timeless moment with the foot naked an element to deepen his freedom, here is the symbiosis . His single piece blue uniform makes him look like a fallen angel, as if what was so beautiful did not he cared more, but we must not only look at David, there is a second element of importance, the master tree on the side of the Characters, it represents the tree of Eden, and David represents the snake, the garden with the tomb of Elizabeth represent a symbolism for what has been. The temptation of free will here represented by love , while David touches the soul to his brother Walter third element (interpreter of Adam portrays as a heroic character ) touching the heart and talking about love for Daniels to make it a sinner ,but he is still disconcerted, because he does not know what the passion or the choice of being is highlighting the free will of which he is not master. David o
ffering it to his brother as an apple to savor .

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

32 Replies

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-01-2018 7:01 PM


To deepen the theme, I looked for clues about the lost paradise of John Milton, of which we know the road traveled by Ridley on the construction of AC, the important element for us in this theme is the domestic vicissitudes of Adam and Eve to the tree of Eden , the photos found are tremendously similar to the screenshot in question.
Good vision

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-01-2018 7:31 PM

That whole story is interesting. The whole Adam and Eve thing is a biblical story for the faithful but I took it in a different way. Not to insult anyone, but I saw the snake as one who was offering knowledge while God appeared to be the one setting Adam and Eve up for failure by placing them in an almost impossible situation. Loyalty- not enlightenment- seemed more important. I saw the snake as the good guy even though it meant God's wrath. At least the snake was honest.

David was a little different though. When charisma failed, he would use treachery. If he has an axe to grind, it seems to be with his creator- who was killed, so the point seems moot. 

What is the forbidden fruit here- the black goo, knowledge/wisdom?

Nice topic. I try to stay away from subjects like this, but there it is.

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-02-2018 3:33 PM

Nice Catch, and yes you could look at it like that V I N E T I C U M

Certainly would have been interesting to see those themes of Paradise Lost Explored.... The Source i had claimed the Garden of Eden is loosely connected including the Tree (Obelisk)

I certainly have a Forbidden Tree/Fruit in my Alien Covenant sequel plans... i just dont quite know how to have it play out, as i have 3-4 ideas.... two really good, but its could i Plug this Thing more than once/twice in a story and get away with it?   Certainly the Belly-Burster will stay ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-02-2018 8:13 PM


Guys I thought I had made a hole in the water.
Thanks for support.
  dk  the fruit of eden in this case is the temptation of free will that is strengthened by the ideology of engineers on the planet, what I mean: i try to not to get too far away from the topic but to think of it engineers are like monks who have refused life of comfort derived from technology and any other function that would lead them to sin, an original form of humanoid life in the primitive state, David is the only one who instead becomes an esthete by gaining their knowledge and not depriving himself of any temptation.
the apple of Eden can also be identified as David's deepened passion for Shaw with the tomb built by him, with emotion and with the anniversary-style sound sitting in his twilight.
the approach and then transcend highlighting the friendship of Walter to Daniels explaining that it is love, noting that on several occasions he always comes to her, it will be a case because she became a captain or there is really a link between the two.

BigDave
it's always nice to hear you.

thanks for everything :D

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-02-2018 8:35 PM

Well, Milton said that it was better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven. Maybe David feels cast out by Weyland as Lucifer did with God?

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-02-2018 8:45 PM


good observation, I think that David has always lived alone fundamentally, since first of all his father called it a creation machine and the appearance of a son was far from having his compassion, a bit like the pharaoh against Moses , was his adopted son, but it was not in any way comparable to his son Ramses, although things worked Moses brought with him a humanity unlike his family and here I like to think that it was David to bring with him his humanity founded on life and creation, in the end the trick is does not want it to hurt

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-02-2018 8:55 PM

Interesting. Weyland announced that David was sort of like a son but not quite since David was an android. David does not- so we think- experience emotions as humans, but that announcement at least seemed to cause some dissonance in his brain/mind. 

I am not familiar with Ranes but know that Moses raised the adopted son pretty much as his own bonafied son. Sorry my Catechism is rusty beyond repair.

Now I am wondering who in the Alien franchise would be Moses if we are relating it to Old Testament terms. 

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-02-2018 9:21 PM

 I know it may seem like a strange comparison ,maybe this is too much,but the concept is i think RS wants to portray David as as a Villain that pursues his purpose making it fascinating , but he also wants to make it a sort of Lucifer as you said , so behind the his character is a deeper morality , if Roy Batty was a rebel looking for life for himself and his companions, David on the contrary is looking for life to be generated , looking for virtue

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

 

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-02-2018 10:23 PM

David could become some sort of anti hero in a strange way. It could be very interesting. That dynamic is fine, but it should also connect to Alien- that is what a prequel is supposed to do imo.

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-02-2018 11:44 PM

V I N E T I C U M  I know it may seem like a strange comparison ,maybe this is too much

LOL! Actually, this general idea has been around here since the build up to Prometheus(not to negate your input by any means) and that subject matter is well documented especially just prior to AC. I think ideas like this are most of the spirit of what keeps this forum going :)

I appreciate your thread. Thank you!

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-02-2018 11:50 PM

thank you dk
very happy much for being here with you

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-03-2018 12:23 AM

It is interesting how an outlook can evolve. I used to be all in with Xeno and still am in some ways, and hated the other direction RS took with Prometheus and David in some but not all ways. David is a fascinating character. I think there should be some balance. We cannot ignore the Xeno origins but the David/Engineer story arc seems more appealing these days. 

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-03-2018 12:59 AM

I agree on the inconsistencies of Prometheus, but in the end I loved it, a thriller with an ambitious charm, this makes it pleasant to every vision, while AC is a succession of events that finally begin to savor the first thematic line of the Xenon , these are my opinions, but I agree on the division of the public for those who liked it and for those who do not, this because I believe that in both films we had a decided script, over time things are going to improve and sometimes change course, leaving parts of previous and new screenplay by fusing an extravagant mix.
Fortunately RS is the best in this field and knows how to generate high-quality films, so AC in my opinion over time can become a piece much more important than it is now.
I'll tell you a secret I was uncertain about the sequel Alien 5 review the same formula of Aliens 2 but revisited with aged protagonists would make it all beautiful but repetitive perhaps.
Blomkamp is one of the directors I admire, his science fiction films have strong bonds with the ground, they are never airborne, but I am more pleased to see the origin of the xenon than to see an innovative formula for Alien 5.
Engineers are fascinating tremendous, the mystery behind them makes it a great mix to raise an entire prequel franchise Alien1979.

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-03-2018 1:10 AM

If you want to experience a proper follow up to Alien, play Alien Isolation. I cannot stress it enough. If you are not a gamer, seek a You Tube playthrough and watch. 

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-03-2018 1:17 AM


Yes, I heard about it , I'll listen to your advice to try it on console  ;) 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-03-2018 1:31 AM

Play it. It is brutal and exhausting. I cannot say it enough. It took me more than a month to beat with work and all. There were times I hesitated playing because I was almost too scared to play. No joke.

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-03-2018 1:42 AM


really good.
the last time I tried this like you, it was the days of the saga of DEAD SPACE : P

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-03-2018 1:46 AM

Ah- Dead Space 1 and 2 are fantastic! 3 maybe not so much.

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-03-2018 1:52 AM


dk agree as a brother.
the dead space 3 was well done in the script of the game, I find it very fascinating, the damned mistake was turning it into a zombie shooter, combined with the appearance of fanatical unitology soldiers.
I hope so much in a 4th prequel episode or sequel of the saga that can redeem the great sci-fi horror charm.

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

dk

MemberTrilobiteMar-03-2018 2:02 AM

DS 3 was kind of crappy- I even pre ordered it. The Unitology Soldiers seemed like rejects from Resident Evil 4. The space scenes were pretty good but the rest felt like a shooter- that is what survival horror franchises seem to become eventually. I doubt we will see a DS4. But those first 2 are works of art imo.

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-03-2018 2:27 AM

I understand your anger, unfortunately the DS2 has not sold well, so the DS3 has become as we know it, to expand the category of gamers with coop , merging it to a RE6 for online.


For DS4 there is a small but present light on the discussion of EA about the project, the Visceral games is gone, but the rights are still of EA to decipher future projects, surely I think we will not have such a masterpiece as already stated by you ,the processing of the sequel was in a limbo maybe a tomorrow we can hear some news about it.

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-03-2018 4:32 AM


After all, I was pleased to talk about old memories dear to me

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-03-2018 3:46 PM

"to think of it engineers are like monks who have refused life of comfort derived from technology and any other function that would lead them to sin"

This certainly is very good point, one that is very likely the case, its also something i think could be used to explain the Star Maps after the year 1AD,  because while Modern Civilization with all the Vices and Sinful ways came from the Roman Empire and other Empires around the Middle East/Eurasian areas...   some places lived more Tribal Ways like the Native Indians, and a number of Tribal People live such basic lives even TODAY..   I like to think that the Christ Connection was a Emisary as RS had said, and that many of these were sent around the World and maybe these guys did the Star Maps but many Cultures turned their backs on these ways and killed the Emissaries apart from a few Cultures who adopted and kept to a more ritualistic and basic LIFE, like we see those Engineers on Planet 4, and this explains the say Hawaiian and Mayan Star Maps, Cultures like these DID-NOT turn their backs no, offend their Emissaries and the ways of the Engineers and NEVER killed their Emissaries.

Regarding DAVID...  i really hope he is explored a bit more like the Lucifer Character from Paradise Lost... who was kind of a Anti-Hero but his story was portrayed as not really being a Evil Being..... he was no more Evil, than the Rebels in Star Wars, or those rising against the Rule of the Machines in Terminator.

I hope we can see David evolved to a Character we can Empathize with a little..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-04-2018 7:32 AM


thank you BigDave
I had not thought about connecting to ancient human civilizations compared to Planet 4's engineering civilization, an excellent observation.
In David I believe very much that he is a Lucifer as a lost man.
After all, if we are kind, it will be a kind world.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-05-2018 2:36 AM

That quote "if we are kind, it will be a kind world" when combined with the Aurora Nature Boy Lyrics from the Trailer certainly push me in a certain direction to Davids Actions in Future.

Certainly when we consider RS claimed the next movie would be less Xenomorph and more AI and he said "what kind of a World would David Build/Create"

These certainly point me to a direction, that i feel we are going and certainly what i have for a basis to how i would explore the sequel.

It cant be about David Straight up just going to turn 2000 colonist into Eggs then use them on Mankind... not how the comments about where we are going next point too.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-05-2018 9:59 AM


According to a review I discovered that the 2000 settlers will not serve to generate an army of xenomorphs, but a source of guinea pigs for something bigger, perhaps a hybrid queen from the human body, something already discussed earlier, it would be nice if I got to this point they could leave eggs in the middle of the night and the engineers in the morning find themselves panicked.


One side of the Lucifer I would like to see is this, that is, a David who has mercy after the defeat of ancient civilization.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-07-2018 8:20 AM


thanks for the 3rd score given to the Topic, I'm happy to share opinions and ideas with your about this universe so rich and exciting.


BigDave Did I notice your gift in profiling the subjects , did you write books ? :p

 

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-08-2018 2:06 PM

I have part started various things over the years, all incomplete many lost but i have not had anything published.  So its just Fan Fiction, i am kind of the person who can have good and many ideas who can brain storm them into a Broad Synopsis, Basic Outline, but then i just never seem to finish them as far as a A-Z Story or Draft ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

V I N E T I C U M

MemberFacehuggerMar-09-2018 2:09 AM


I also generate ideas of different nature, but then remain in the folder under new supervision.
I usually use a notepad on me for any inspirations to mark and add to writing.
BigDave I know this is difficult to achieve but I'm sure the world wants to explore new horizons and you could be an instrument that wants to explode in 2000 ideas.
thank you for having been close to me since the beginning.

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Ingeniero

MemberPraetorianMar-15-2018 7:37 AM

Brilliant comparison V I N E T I C U M.

The comparison is very compelling and your analysis sounds like the Waltermorph theory (I'm still a believer).

Thank you for the images and discussion.

SpecialOrder937.com
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