Movie fanFacehuggerMember500 XPJan-11-2017 9:33 AM
Does this mean Shaw might be dead in Alien: Covenant?
ChrisEngineerAdmin22765 XPJan-11-2017 9:41 AM
They are keeping Shaw's fate relatively secret for the time being. But the official plot synopsis referring to David as the only inhabitant of the planet the Covenant arrive on, does not bode well for Shaw, I'd imagine.
Vickers3OvomorphMember11 XPJan-11-2017 9:48 AM
I can see a scenario in which Shaw escaped the planet (and is alive somewhere else) taking a whole prequel novel to explain.
Dark NebulaXenomorphStaff1204 XPJan-11-2017 9:48 AM
Looks like she is sadly "dead" in Alien: covenant.
The novel might tell the story of how she and David got to the engineer homeworld and what happened after that.
There might be some conflict between Shaw and David.In the prometheus novel Shaw actually became suspicious of David and in the end he admitted to her that he was responsible for Holloway's death.Something like that might happen in this novel I presume, which might lead to David trying to kill Shaw or idk.We were told by Ridley that David's character will be much darker and dangerous in the prometheus sequel.
And I did have a dream about it,that I wrote HERE.
IamBloodBrotherOvomorphMember11 XPJan-11-2017 10:10 AM
I'm excited that this will be another piece of the puzzle, rather than a script novelization!
Movie fanFacehuggerMember500 XPJan-11-2017 10:45 AM
I was hoping that Shaw would have more involvement in Alien: Covenant.
Neomorph ChestbursterMember739 XPJan-11-2017 10:57 AM
10 years on a foreign plannet, not sure I'd like to see the state of Shaw if she was alive (which I doubt)
Going by the Robinson Crusoe logic of being stranded though (28 years) then it might be possible. If so, I expect a dirty cave woman (think Newt but older and x10 more dirty) with ragged loincloth jumping out of a bush or something rather than a perfect Hollywood commercial model with perfect L'Oréal hair and snow white teeth.
Or maybe David puts her in some kind of custom made cryo tube, and the AC crew wakes her up and she reveals David's plan or something.
ripley05OvomorphMember80 XPJan-11-2017 12:45 PM
I absolutley think the same thing. That would make for an incredible scene with Shaw warning the crew with her last breath right after a xeno attack
BigDaveDeaconMember10416 XPJan-11-2017 2:34 PM
This is some interesting yet a bit disappointing news.
So potentially the Novelization would cover some elements that are not shown in AC? but will be Canon and touch upon some of what happened prior to Alien Covenant.
I am disapointed if this means this Story and Plot that was the original reason for doing a sequel until lots of Alien Fans got all excited over Blomkamps Alien 5 and Ripley.. so Fox must have decided to now change the aftermath story and relegate the events prior to having to be covered in the form of a Novel?
But on the other-hand... if we get this in the Novel at least we may get some answers.. and in their defense (FOX) trying to cover to much in one movie would have distracted from the pacing a little bit.... i guess it would be like if the Elder Scene was kept in but also made longer, and if we had similar Flash Back to the Outbreak.. it would have maybe distracted from the Prometheus movie pacing as far as the crew of the Prometheus and events that happened to them...
As long as in Alien Covenant, David can give us some answers to those questions... but not fully and that when the Final Movie comes around to show us the Space Jockey we can get on screen answers to what Shaw was originally hoping to find out.
I guess also.. depending what David and Shaw found and if we get any history on the Engineers... visually it would have been something that required a Large Budget to cover a Plot that they feel Fans would rather instead see more Alieny movie instead.
BigDaveDeaconMember10416 XPJan-11-2017 2:40 PM
They was supposed to be doing a sequel right after to Alien Covenant... which is very odd... if its a Canon-Sequel... after Alien Covenants events in the year 2104....
*A sequel is in the Pipeline... but why make a Novel before the Sequel and one that is Canon.... its like if we had the Alien Covenant Novel released now... it would spoil the movie.
*The sequel Novel is to explore one Fork in the Road after Alien Covenant.. while the next Movie explores another.. so it would be like if Prometheus 2 movie followed Shaw and David... while a Prometheus sequel Novel touched upon Shaws SOS and the Weyland-Yutani Merger and going back to LV-223
Because Ridley said that Prometheus had TWO possible outcomes and they logically felt that following Shaw and David was the way to go...
The only other theory i can have is... if the Sequel Novel is not a Sequel at all... and we get a Novelization of Alien Covenant with another Novel to follow after that covers the events prior to Alien Covenant and what Shaw and David had been upto and found, after leaving LV-223 in 2094 and the 10 years prior to the Covenant arriving in the year 2104
I am thinking the above could be the case... and its a shame we wont find this out on the Big Screen... but maybe Fox feel the Engineers and History is not worth screen time... only the Xenomorph and Ripley Saga is worth screen time.
ctombOvomorphMember13 XPJan-11-2017 3:14 PM
My opinion is that we only see Shaw in flashbacks. Remember a while back there was news Noomi wouldn't be in the film. Then we heard she would have a small role.
I suspect the small role she has is a couple of flashbacks or videos that help explain what happened to her on Paradise.
Hopefully we see a lot more of Noomi than flashbacks like the picture below:
BigDaveDeaconMember10416 XPJan-11-2017 5:19 PM
Yeah some thought she was a weak Character and cant be molded into the Ripley Mold... so they brought in Waterston a Taller Actress to now play a very Riply Role...
But i would not pick a fight with Rappace... she is a Pocket Rocket ;)
BigDaveDeaconMember10416 XPJan-11-2017 5:47 PM
Looked more into the Novel.... done some digging...
And it appears the AC sequel Novel is actually a prequel.
"The novelization of ALIEN:COVENANT has been turned in and approved. I am working with Titan Publishing and Fox on what will be an original prequel to the film story. Sorry…no can hint (yet) at what it might contain."
Source is here
This indeed is what the writer for the Novel said and so it does seem to be that the 2nd Novel will be what covers events that take place prior to AC.
Thats one read i am very interesting in getting my hands on... a worry is as it will also come out in 2017... is this 2nd Novel will just be our answers to what happened prior and we wont get no screen time for this...
But i think AC will tease us, and if AC comes out and Fans moan about what became of Shaw and the Engineers, and the Novel that covers such events is a Massive Hit..
While i dont think we would see Shaw again... i think FOX could then have to show us more about the Engineers and what they was thinking and History a bit more in future movies.
BigDaveDeaconMember10416 XPJan-11-2017 5:59 PM
I will quote the references from his blog as far as AC.
1 January 2017
"The novelization of ALIEN:COVENANT has been turned in and approved. I am working with Titan Publishing and Fox on what will be an original prequel to the film story. Sorry...no can hint (yet) at what it might contain"
Tease that his Novel could cover events post Prometheus and prior to Alien Covenant.
1 October 2016
"Work on the novelization of ALIEN:COVENANT proceeds smoothly, though for some reason I keep having stomach cramps while writing"
Chest Buster Reference... but maybe that would be Chest Pains.... how could stomach cramps be at play.. last time we saw them was in Prometheus ;)
1 September 2016
"I'm currently writing the novelization, plus some unique original material, for ALIEN:COVENANT. An unusual approach that's never been tried before in a novelization. Look for it, along with the film, next year"
If we connect this with the Jan 1st comment, then it could be as far as writing up a Prequel based Novel than a direct like for like of a Movie..
This to me would be like say when Star Wars EP 4 New Hope had its Novelization... that someone was asked to come up with Rogue One Novel that would not be a Movie at that Time.
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember763 XPJan-11-2017 7:14 PM
Again no spoilers but speculative.
Ever since Janty Yates interview in December 2015 I have been emphasising the 10 years is important not simply about length of time of space travel. I am very excited about this idea and pleased that when I sit down in the cinema I know there will be a literary foundation to the placement of the story.
I think its becoming clearer, if it wasn't clear before, that the movie narrative will be driven by Covenant in real time they will come into a bigger story which is represented by the state of the planet and David's story. Those latter two will be flash backed to give context and show the jeopardy they have come into only and the prequel will offer the narrative of those flash backs in fine detail. Three options for the narrative framing of the novel :-
1) The Engineers history into which David arrives.
2) Through David perspective and his waking to the arrival of the Covenant which tells Shaw's story. So the book begins with the Weyland/David scene and tells his story referencing Prometheus and making it clearer he knew a great deal more than was revealed and then of course the journey to Paradise, his reintegration and transformation and the outcome with Elizabeth and what he found, what he did and why. All material that will be of great interest to those of us interested in the mythos and which the general franchise audience would be less interested in
3) Shaws diary found by Daniels in the movie.
I will also return to my pet view that is strengthened by this news that Covenant and the book prequel is Ridders at 78 wrapping it all up and the movie is the mid point between P and A.
If we have P and a linking book and A C where else is the story between AC and A. I just cannot see Ridley doing another beast story once the why the beast is revealed. Unless Covenant itself is a cliff hanger set up.
ali81NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-12-2017 12:12 AM
I agree bigdave it will be an interesting read but the whole point of this path was to get away from alien and focus more on the questions shaw was asking. wev got alien5 next so this was meant to be a direct Prometheus sequal I thought and would tie up to the original alien at a later stage. I would have rather we got away from the 'ripley' character as it seems wer getting newt in alien5 and daniels in covenant, shaw was something new. I hope she isn't dead as she gives us the character who is set out for answers rather than just battling xenos and surviving as we need a character to follow and I don't see daniels being that character, she will be more interested in surviaval rather than setting off across the stars to ask our makers the major questions like shaws character would
BigDaveDeaconMember10416 XPJan-12-2017 1:22 AM
I think its all down to change of plan again....
We need to look at the Evolution of the Franchise from a Prequel Stand point.
Alien: Engineers.... Began to show us the Space Jockey was the Engineer Race who genetically Engineered Mankind using some Organism that allowed them to spread their DNA.... the Protagonist who discovered clues in various Ancient Cultures pointing to a Star System... that when they arrive they find is no a invitation and its not a welcoming place for our creators...
It is found at this point to be a place these Engineers had been experimenting on other Organisms (maybe using their Creation Tool the Nano Scarabs) and this Outpost is a place these Engineers have been working on many different versions of some Horrid Alien Bio-Weapon. Which they had intended to use on Earth. Hinting at because of maybe something we had done to upset them.
It was a movie that was set on LV-426 featured different Face Huggers, different Alien Organisms 3-4 different ones and crew being attacked and killed by them. The money shot was the Juggernaught taking off but crashing with a Chest Busted Engineer and resulting Ultramorph....
It was a tease at maybe being Alien and LV-426 a more direct Prequel... (but maybe Red Herring).. it ended with the remaining protagonist discovering this place is not the Engineers homeworld but Paradise was and this is where She and David would be off.... but its left open to if they go.
Prometheus came in off another draft and was aimed at the rather interesting concept on the Engineers, who was they and there role in the Galaxy and Creation and the stance that the Xenomorph as a experiment that was either the result of experiments on the now (Black Goo) or lead to them. It was cutting down the Xeno-elements but to give clues that this Place which is now a near by Moon LV-223 was still being used for the same purpose as Alien: Engineers.. which was to Engineer, Test and Produce Bio-logical Warfare and the Xenomorph was one part of that....
They gave us clues to the Xeno being viewed in some high esteam for the Engineers and its Origin or Creation is connected by the Black Goo.... where we was shown just 3 elements of what it can do.... and so fans only got to see the Hammerpede kill Milburn... Hybrid Human (looked like Toxic Avenger) kill most of the other crew.... at this point there was not much Xeno DNA and no Xenomorphs.... Then we see Shaw is infected with the Black Goo to then produce the Proto-Face Hugger which instead of a Xeno that killed a few people... it mearly was used to infect the Engineer at the end to Produce the Deacon which was the Money shot to bring home indeed this place is connected to the Xenomorph creation.
The Deacon did not kill no one, the Hammerpede only one, and it was the Engineer and Mutated Human Fifield that did the killing... i think this led to disappointment to fans.
It removed the need to see Xenomorphs, but via the Mural and how the Black Goo worked showed us how they would have came to be... but it was to vague..... they concentrated more on the Engineer and Mythos and Religious undertones a bit more.
Prometheus 2 was a work in progress, Ridley had mentioned it, then it went dark, then he would mention it again and it would go dark.... for the next 18 months after Prometheus, he would hammer home that a Sequel would step further away from Alien and LV-223 as far as the basis of this place being a place they (Engineers) conducted experiments to create horific Bio-Weapons.... The movie instead would be about Shaw and David and going to Paradise to find out answers, like Why was we created, Why was we to be destroyed, why did they create that Place LV-223 and if the Engineers are not God then who is pulling the strings at the top... it would likely had mentioned the Xenomorph and LV-223 but only in limited way.
Ridley had connected these Engineers are Fallen Angels and touched upon light connections to Paradise Lost Plot.. loosely.
This was a bold plot to do justice and i am sure a sticking point hence all the re-writes but it was to open a Franchise Direction where Prometheus offered us a Fork in the Road.
Fork One ==> Experiments and events in past ==> LV-426
Fork Two ==> Offer to explore the Engineers and history and culture and what changed a seeming Benevolent Planet Seeding Race into a Warmongering Bio-Weapon Touting angry Race.
But with Alien 5 information released and fans getting high hopes for this, as opposed to a Prometheus 2 to follow Shaw and her quest for answers that may end up showing us less of the Xeno Origins than even Prometheus did... just never sat well with a lot of Fans..
This is where Alien Covenant comes in... a movie that would cover the Xeno clues a bit... and seems will tone down the Engineer connection... but we need to remember Ridley had hinted that they still created it... and so we can expect some Engineer clues.
But i think they are now going to Milk it for a Alien Prequel to give more Alieny Monster movies and Ripley connections.
If Blomkamp never showed his Alien 5 idea and concepts...
That something like the P2 movie would have happened... and that FOX would then showcase the Deacon or what happened to LV-223 in a Novelization side Story... that would give more Xeno clues and answers..
It appears now the Engineer History is to now have to take the back seat and appear in only a Novel form.
ali81NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-12-2017 1:31 AM
before coming on here and seeing all the wonderfull theories I initially had the theory that, the engineers have seeded many worlds before earth. having seen the results on other worlds or maybe looking theyr own evolution as we r them in a way, they saw us as a future threat to them. they realised u cant play god as u will inevitably be destroyed by ur creation and decided to wipe us out in our 'infant' state before this could happen. though I do like the thought of various engineer factions and the theory this is indeed a rebel faction wiping us out to stop earth from becoming a xeno breeding ground
BigDaveDeaconMember10416 XPJan-12-2017 1:33 AM
Indeed you have to think about the big picture of where do they go after this movie?
Would a sequel cover the Engineers more? it seems they have TWO Books comming out this year, and if this is the case a sequel Novel would spoil the next movie....
So its likely this sequel is a prequel set between 2094 to 2104 and so i think we wont find out much about those spores, the Eggs in Alien Covenant.... i think the Novel would cover them.
it appears and SPOILER ALERT to a degree...
That Daniels will survive and get back to the Covenant which would have some 185 ish Colonists still in Cryo-sleep, and i am sure she would want to be going away from this place... just as Ripley did in Alien.... i dont think it would have Daniels shown as going "what so all this stuff came back from LV-223" then " lets go to that place and destroy it" The ship had 200 Colonists and up to 12/13 of those die in this movie maybe less.
Would she want to risk those lives to use her Ship as a Nuke to Blast LV-223? Who knows..
I think a Walter/David would get on board and i think the David/Walter Switch-a-roo is obvious but it has to at some point play what will happen... or Walter goes Rogue and David in the end Helps...
This would set up a sequel where Daniels can quiz David about the Engineer World, what he found, what happened to the Prometheus etc.... its from these scenes David can give us information on the Prometheus mission and what Paradise was.
We have the potential for this movie to follow on as a Alien movie and so in some way a Xenomorph would play a role... be this that David/Walter has snook something on the Covenant.... the Xenomorph on the loose has created something (Egg Morph) or the Covenant gets caught up with a Ship thats been to or is on the way to LV-223 and David/Daniels realize they have to warn/stop them
This is how i can only really see a direct sequel to AC go.
BigDaveDeaconMember10416 XPJan-12-2017 1:44 AM
Your not wrong..... Ridley had said the Sacrificial Scene did not have to be Earth and these Engineers seeded many worlds.... the Fire and Stone comics are consider semi-canon as a way to show us what could happen next and before... and it had in the Predator Comics a 4 armed Humanoid Race who also had Star Maps to the LV-223 System... which the Predator then went of to visit.
So while we cant take that as Canon, what can be taken as Canon from it is that... Earth is maybe not the only place these beings seeded life...
But Prometheus gave us the Space Jesus clues.. which Ridley meant as to show how at that time the Engineers finally realized their creation had gone to far as far as being rebellious and no longer sub-servant and sticking to the rules. And so a intervention was needed for these unruly Children
But does that mean other seeded Worlds had behaved the same? If they created say 5 Worlds with very Humanoid species and they saw 2-3 of these had now become rebellious or turned out against their wishes.... with the other World starting to show the same signs....
Then yes the Engineers would then consider it wise to completely eradicate all they had created...
But there could be a twist..... maybe a Faction of Engineers had played God... they was supposed to look over these Worlds for some purpose... but with the Gods (Cats) away the Engineers (Mice) will play and they create Mankind and other races by further tampering with the Gene-pool against the Will of their Gods...
They then get fearful the Gods will find out and Punish them and so they had no choice but to go and get rid of the evidence..... Basically be cleaning up the mess after a House Party before your Parents get back and realize what you have done with the House (Galaxy) while they was away.
Then there could be a Sinister Plot... where the Engineers were to their Gods as we are to them..... they was created for some purpose... they rebelled.... and either created us to replace them for what ever Sinister Plot and Agenda... or the Creators of the Engineers Created us as a replacement...
Maybe after a War after... the Rebellious Engineers then tried to subjugate Mankind..
ali81NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-12-2017 2:28 AM
it does seem daniels is being set up to survive and I totally agree as i have said on other threads I don't see daniels going through all this just to go and meet more possible aggressive life forms. shel want to put as much distance between her and any threat as possible. shaw is the character for doing this as we have daniels and newt in alien5 being the 'ripley' type characters so we need shaw. regarding ridleys comments and reasoning behind changing his plans from an alien prequel to what Prometheus was about, it makes no sense, to me anyway, why he would kill shaw off. he may have changed things due to fan reaction but I really hope not. I hope he had plans for shaw, to follow her quest to find the engineers and gain answers, wether she gets them or not doesn't matter, and sticks to them. just seems a waste of the initial character he was seemingly setting up in Prometheus to carry the adventure forward.
I do like the theory the engineers r but creations themselves. this is all a repeating cycle, something created a species who evolved and created the engineers, the engineers battled and maybe destroyed theyr creators, then they themselves created us and now we threaten to destroy them and guess what, we have evolved and r now playing god and have become unnatural creators ourselves destined to be destroyed. the point being only 'god' can create life and punishment will befall those who those who try.
the different factions of engineer is def what id like to see and for the next film to be more focused solely on them, theyr civilisation and reasoning behind wanting to destroy theyr creation. don't think we really need another alien movie as it looks like AC is more alien based and we have alien5 on the way. plus there may be another after the AC sequel so an engineer movie would fill in a lot of blanks I think
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember763 XPJan-12-2017 4:42 AM
@BD and Ali81
As BD knows I am not sci-fi centric I am really more a movie fan who likes Ridley than anything else. As a favourite director of mine who happened to make an A L I EN movie decades ago I was fascinated by him returning to the story. All the A L I E N S fandom and the pre occupation with bringing Sigourney etc back is a huge yawn but on face book it goes on and on with people constantly quoting Bill Paxton's dialogue WHY !!
However I am a realist Ridley was not happy with any of the material to follow Prometheus and only in the latter days of the Martian with a favourite of mine brought on board John Logan did at last look like the film would be made.
All of the time here is taken with trying to get into one of my favourite directors mind and see how he will do this thing. That Covenant's pulse comes from the Covenant with Paradise and David interfering has always been my expectation.
But Ridley is sticking to three red lines :-
2) Big themes mortality/immortality etc etc
3) The beast needs a reason to be there WHY.
As we know from recent posts here 2 still cuts across peoples needs and people keep on and on about A 5 on Facebook.
For the studios franchises are a poisoned chalice, its big budget lots of investment but is it really wanted beyond the aficionado's ? Everything that happened to Prom (the changes last minute, how much do we Xeno the movie, all comes from that).
Ridley is 78 and probably could not care less about any of the politics so he goes with his instinct. Great screen play John lets do this. But he does care about the franchise, A L I E N, thats why you get thought provoking images (W & D) the news that Noomi will appear and all his attention to design the retro arts and craft design of even the passage ways.
But he has to make a movie that the movie generation (in particular the 16 /25 North American) will attend to turn a profit and the A 5 brouhaha will make Fox nervous.
Right now I am thinking we will get :-
1) A movie that shifts more troping of horror than is ideal and it will make good sense, if not be wholly supportive of the deep thoughts on this forum.
2) A special edition that has more why, he did it with the Martian and must be aware of the deep love of the core fans.
3) A book that has a whole lot of why.
I do not think we will get a geo political engineer story (sacrifice Yes) but much more likely a broad morality tale about trying to interfere bites you in the bum. I also think the mortality/immortality will be mixed in with what is humanity reference David's story.
Those of who you have seen the trailer, compare trailers to films you know, and note the hugely different outcome.
But no way are we getting a tangent story and Noomi in the film is a plot device and much of that is due to the general reception to Prometheus, audiences want much more deliberate connectivity and higher levels of exposition. The love of Bladerunner and Shawshank Redemption comes from movie buffs who put the effort in, but they stiffed when released. We get the news papers we deserve and we get the movies we deserve (en masse).
ali81NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-12-2017 6:19 AM
I would probably say to one of ur questions that it is in theyr dna to be aggressive so yes, it would be logical to assume that if they had seeded other worlds then what evolves from theyr dna would also evolve to be an intelligent yet highly aggressive and dominant species destined to evolve and travel the stars as they do. theyr physical appearance would inherently be similar, bipedal humanoid beings yet differ in ways determined by theyr environment. we may have been one of the last planets to be seeded and they have had to eradicate other worlds of the same threat so have decided it best to just wipe the slate clean and take us out while theyr at it. the fact theres multiple vessels on lv223 might suggest there were more and the fleet was loading up and multiple planets were getting 'cleansed' roughly about the same time, some had left before the events that killed the rest before they left.
Chad RipleyFacehuggerMember103 XPJan-12-2017 6:49 AM
This is definitely interesting and can go in a lot of directions. I do think that Shaw is already dead or dies in Alien Covenant. The novel will explain how she got Davids head back on and their journey/arrival to the engineers home planet. This is where her life ends but I'm not sure if it's gonna be shown in a flashback in AC or if she will still be alive only to die in some spectacular fashion early on in AC. I would be super shocked if she's alive and well. David running around with a cloak and gun doesn't look promising for Shaw. That 2 second scene in the trailer with Daniels finding that ID in the Alien ship also makes me think Shaw was tricked by David and became a host for the Aliens. Xenos or Neos. This could be true if that ID was Shaws husbands, which would make sense, but it could also be Billy Crudup's. In the trailer you also see him and David in the ship and he gets facehugged. So depending on how Scott is planning on telling this story (ten years later) is going to dictate how Shaws death plays out. Judging by the ten years after Prometheus thing I don't think she's going to be alive in AC, but if he's truly planning on making acouple more movies then I could be wrong. I think the novel is going to be the franchises way of honoring Shaw's legacy though, because I really think she's not gonna be alive in AC. Hopefully we get David telling the Covenant crew in a flashback what happened to Shaw. Of course it will be his less sinister version, but the true flashback will maybe dawn on Daniels at some point which leads to a David/Daniels showdown. I wish I could somehow be involved in writing or acting in these movies lol. I treasure this universe and think I would be able to honor its legacy while amping up the mythology/story. I just need Ridley Scott to read this somehow lol.
Movie fanFacehuggerMember500 XPJan-12-2017 7:22 AM
Maybe Shaw gets turned into a monster, David does have the black ooze at his disposal, and he can do anything to Shaw while she is in cryo sleep.(if she is in cryo sleep.)
gabel76OvomorphMember11 XPJan-12-2017 8:21 AM
I think all of this assumes that Ridley Scott isn't just pulling all this from his %ss. I mean he's a visionary with the camera but story/plot is not his strong suit. He got lucky with O'Bannon as a writer/creator for Alien and Cameron following up with such a great sequel but Prometheus was just way too convoluted. My two cents is the studio wanted a sequel, he had fun with the last outing so he said yes, and he's been overseeing a "kitchen with a hundred cooks in it" story-wise ever since. I really hope this next film is more coherent but to say he had some great story arc in mind all this time seems naive. Just my two cents.
chliChestbursterMember935 XPJan-12-2017 10:39 AM
So Alien Covenant will begin in medias res? This means that the movie will probably begin with the spaceship Covenant landing on Paradise where David is the sole inhabitant? We might get a few glimpses of the past (Shaw/engineers) through the crew’s dialog with David, but otherwise a straightforward action/horror story? While Prometheus had a bit of a frosty reception, this time they are going to kick ass? They want to scare us as they did with Alien? Although perhaps more like Aliens (guns, action etc)?
So therefore a novel is needed to give us with a somewhat philosophical nature what we need? The Covenant is apparently a colonizing vessel, by the way (not a rescue party). I wonder why they end up on the same planet as David? Did he contact them? Perhaps he needed guinea pigs for his experiments? :)
Michelle JohnstonChestbursterMember763 XPJan-12-2017 12:48 PM
@Chli "Medias Res"
Precisely. I have now seen two stills which act as placement for David 8 's story the wakeup scene with Weyland and the Covenant crew notably Walter looking at David in a monitor. However Ridley said many months ago the Covenant comes into the narrative at the beginning of the first act and I believe the pulse of the narrative comes from the Covenant through out with them "discovering" the story of the planet, Engineers and David.
In A L I EN the same thing happened the Nostromo was the pulse of the narrative and they "came into" the story of the Space Jockey and its cargo. The difference here is we know a good deal more about the potential jeopardy the Covenant is coming into and are set up through the film and later the book to examine that "jeopardy" in more detail quite a feast.
I know I set a slightly down tone with my remarks about action/horror a la A L I E N S but the Xenomorph appeared for four minutes in A L I E N so as its Ridley's film I think much of the drama will be in the suspense rather than over long action sequences. Probably where the movie will lean toward ALIENS is in the final defence using weaponry but then again Ripley used a flame thrower in ALIEN. On reflection I think my concern for it straying into being a routine horror film is wrong.
chliChestbursterMember935 XPJan-13-2017 12:14 AM
Yes, I hope Scott will give us his vision with atmosphere and suspense rather than a lot of action (this was what made Alien so scary). Also, sometimes what you don’t see is more scary than what you do see (e.g. when Ripley hear Lambert and Parker being attacked, through the telecom radio).
The production company must get its money back so the story has to appeal to a wide audience, I guess? This means that the story must stand on its own feet (for new viewers) and the frame story (the alien universe) will only be hinted at (for fans)?
Yes, the film will probably focus on (some of) the new characters on Covenant. The main tension will be between the protagonist (Waterston) and how she copes with the villain (the aliens or David?). Usually, there are subproblems within the group. What might that be?
Stan Winston (deceased)FacehuggerMember173 XPJan-13-2017 12:24 AM
My money's on Daniels being last (wo)man standing and in deep peril at the end of the third act, but then Shaw arrives on the scene out of hiding to save the day somehow -- a la Laurence Fishburne in Predators (yes, I too hated that film).
ali81NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-13-2017 12:45 AM
gabel76, my intention is not to shoot u down and if comes across that way plz accept my apology as this is not my intend, but going from interviews ridley has given over the years u couldn't be more wrong IMO. he has often discussed his dislike for the path the franchise took after aliens. he hasn't gone and shot down A3 or AR and I think he likes some aspects of those films but they didn't go down the path he has stated he would have. he said years ago he wanted to continue the story from the 'who was the pilot and what happened to him?' and 'whats the significance of the eggs?' point of view, hence Prometheus. he was always going to do more sequels as he knows he cant give us the complete story in just one film, it will be told over 3 maybe 4 and eventually tie up with his original alien masterpiece. ur right he may not be the strongest writer but what he lacks in that ability he more than makes up for in his vision and direction with a camera. u can take a bad script and turn it into a blockbuster with the right director, u can take a brilliant piece of writing and destroy it by having the wrong director in the chair. remember the only aspects of starbeast that anyone liked was the facehugger and chest burster, that's it really. o'bannons script was then ripped to shreds and even ridley changed things such as the sex of ripley. O'Bannon wasn't a bad writer, but I wouldn't go as far as to say ridley got lucky with him, O'Bannon even when asked if hed taken 'stolen' ideas from an other writer he admitted 'I didn't steal the idea from one writer, I stole it from lots of writers' ( tho he isn't alone in this process). his idea was original but the script itself, by the so called experts view, wasn't strong. but alien is O'Bannon and Shusetts' creation brought to life brilliantly by RS
chliChestbursterMember935 XPJan-13-2017 2:13 AM
I think that is out of the question. Many in the audience don’t know who Shaw is. I agree that Daniels will probably be the last “man” standing (probably accompanied by Walter or David). Are you talking 3 or 5 acts, by the way?
ali81NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-13-2017 2:43 AM
id say the vast majority of the audience will have seen Prometheus or at least ridley will be going by this assumption. Prometheus had such a big interest id say 95% of those who will watch AC will have seen Prometheus
ali81NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-13-2017 2:45 AM
def agree that daniels is being set up as a survivor. my guess is daniels and david r left
Stan Winston (deceased)FacehuggerMember173 XPJan-13-2017 4:58 PM
I was thinking 3-act structure with Shaw cameoing right at the end to save Daniels, which perhaps sets up the next episode with BOTH Daniels and Shaw!? Who knows, why not.
I think even if newcomers are unfamiliar with Shaw, the story has to be consumable as an independent movie. Besides, folks can always later go see the "prequel" of AC... Prometheus.
I think it is becoming the 'Michael Fassbender show' so must agree that Walter and/or David will stick around till the end, or beyond.
Final point, about Ridley/O' Bannon/Shussett: don't forget David (Giler) and Walter (Hill) have claim as well. One or both of them turned the main character into a woman and named her Ripley.
metalosOvomorphMember34 XPApr-27-2017 10:19 AM
I just visited Alan Dean Foster's official web page and this prequel book now called Alien: Origins (maybe this is not new but i just discovered now). If the third prequel movie will be called Alien: Awakening and it will be placed between Prometheus and Alien: Covenant i wonder what the two stories will be about. It's just so good to be an Alien fan at this time, so much content will came in our most beloved universe.