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Walter Hill and the 50 shades of Ripley

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daliens

Jun-12-2020 2:51 AM

"Speaking to Empire in the new Heroes Issue– on sale now – Weaver revealed that she received a 50-page treatment from Alien franchise producer Walter Hill around a year and a half ago for a different take on a fifth Ripley film, which came about in the aftermath of Blomkamp’s project falling through – though she’s ultimately not sure the future of Alien rests in the revival of that legendary character. “I don’t know,” she said. “Ridley has gone in a different direction. Maybe Ripley has done her bit. She deserves a rest.” 

I don't get it, Walter Hill gave the 50 page treatment to Sigourney Weaver after the release of Alien Covenant? The producers have absolutely no common sense if they still want to resurrect Ripley, after Alien Covenant? What a mess!

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

85 Responses to Walter Hill and the 50 shades of Ripley

Leto

Jun-12-2020 4:02 AM

They should resurrect Shaw instead!

 

And what the "mess"? If the film will have a good quality - who give a... cornbread(!) about canon, Ripley or other things? The level of quality is the main thing - ideas are secondary.

daliens

Jun-12-2020 6:41 AM

Too late for Shaw either.

It looks like the only concern of the producers is to cash in and they imagine they can do so by pleasing the fans of the Ripley quadrilogy or even a smaller faction, the fans of Aliens, but that is a dead end.

Even as a TV series it would not work.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Leto

Jun-12-2020 7:09 AM

Well, yes, they are unlikely to be able to withstand countless legions of prequel fans;)

I Raptus

Jun-12-2020 4:08 PM

found a bit more on this HERE @ Cine Series

Translation follows:

Since the Fox acquisition by Disney, the Alien franchise
now belongs to the studio with big ears. Recently,
Ridley Scott, the director who started this saga in 1979,
said he was eager to offer a new opus to the franchise.
A third film which would follow on from Prometheus and
Alien: Covenant. He also mentioned a fifth film carried
by Sigourney Weaver. The latter would have even
received a script of more than 50 pages.
The return of Ellen Ripley?
Initially, a fifth film carried by Sigourney Weaver 
should have been released a few years ago. Filmmaker
Neill Blomkamp was actually working on the screenplay
for Alien 5. It was in the early 2010s. While the South
African filmmaker was extremely involved, 20th Century
Fox preferred to produce Prometheus in 2012, leaving
aside the eventual Alien 5, much to the disappointment
of Neill Blomkamp.
In recent hours, at the microphone of Empire, the 
producer of the Alien franchise, Walter Hill, revealed
that a screenplay of Alien 5 of fifty pages did indeed
exist. He was even sent to Sigourney Weaver because the
story concerns Ellen Ripley. It is another version than
that of Neill Blomkamp, who was born shortly after the
failure of his project. Sigourney Weaver reacted to this
scenario and is ultimately not sure to return to the
skin of Ellen Ripley, despite the affection she has for
this character
"I do not know . Ridley went in a different direction. 
Maybe Ripley has done her part. She deserves her rest.
I always felt that she was the best partner. She's still
in my gut. I was part of the crew, and it was something
I liked. I was not wearing a little dress, trying to
stay clean. I was in a jumpsuit looking like a greasy
monkey in the trenches with my crew." - Weaver
Unlike Sigourney Weaver, producer Walter Hill would very 
much like this iconic pop culture character to come back
in a new episode. He believes there is still more to
talk about and knows full well that the old returns of
decades later are very fashionable right now. It remains to be seen what Disney has in mind for the
rest of the Alien franchise. Ridley Scott recently
stated that the saga should "evolve again". Will the
studio offer an Alien suite: Covenant or an Alien 5
with Sigourney Weaver? The future will tell...



daliens

Jun-13-2020 12:56 AM

Thanks I Raptus.

IMO, for the saga to evolve again, we should see the xenomorph existed before David. The new Ripley episode or the sequel to Alien Covenant that insists on David as the creator of alien will not allow much room to evolve. But I would like to see that sequel and to see David admitting he only made his variant of the monster. 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BlackAnt

Jun-13-2020 1:29 AM

"The beast is officially cooked," Ridley Scott November 4, 2017.

And here we all are wondering about how we all got here. To the tragic mess we call Alien.

Let us start with some facts. The spin off movies, some of them, have their moments and give us a possible tie in to test what a larger invasion on Earth might have looked like in other possible future films...these cinematic experiments failed at the box office but not because of the lack in special effects. These films failed for a number important reasons. One because of bad scripts, bad acting, and the size and scope of the films. Any films can be great experiences depending on who writes them, produces them, and directs them...just ask Michael Bay - several billion dollars later.

Fact number two. The story lines from Alien to Alien Covenant are so fragmented, worthless, and fouled that nothing can put them back together again....in short order  there are parts of these films that showed great promise; however, once again either do to budget cutbacks, bad scripts, some worthless special effects, or just complete stupidity - who knows why they did it the movies just got made the way they did.

Case in point, the digital Xenomorph in Alien Covenant was so bad I wanted to puke on the floor. The scene with David standing over the exploded chest and holding up his hands while the little fully formed Xenomorph held up it's hands made me want to get the puke back off the floor and throw it up again....there were a few minutes of the film that were outstanding. Most of Alien Covenant needed to hit the editing floor never to be scene or ever be put in theaters.

So what do we do now......I know lets use science to help us understand the movie business....because if you don't use science you end up with what we have now a huge pile of BULL SHITE!

Lets make this as simple as possible so even the slow people at Disney and Walter Hill can understand it.

The highest grossing films of all time are large battle films: Star Wars, Avengers - 2 billion I hear you hollar!!!!!, Avatar, Black Panther, Iron Man, Transformers, Captain America, and even Jurassic Word where humans fight large dinosaurs - yep even if you have a complex enough fight scene you can make billions fighting fake dinosaurs on screen and that is a fact with real money in the bank to prove it!

So Ridley once said I wonder what all those eggs are for in the cargo hold of the Engineer's ship? YEP PAY CLOSE ATTENTION ALIEN FANS! They are to attack another set of other space aliens in an epic fight movie with so many great special effects scenes, just like in Avengers End Game, you cannot resist watching! Right because we like big fight movies....not dumb and dumber emotional robots like Walter and David having even dumb and dumber philosophical arguments, bla bla bla puke puke puke.

So yeah, Ridley, Walter, Disney, and the rest of you if you are reading make that movie about the real war where the Xenomorph and a thousand other horrible night mares descend on the other aliens in the most epic space battles ever to be shown on film and you will make billions consistently....you wont be able to keep people out of the theaters....you must have a really great enemy to fight just like in Avengers End Game, something the audience can get invested in for all the right and wrong reasons...It's true some people like the Empire some people like the Rebels. Who cares lets watch great epic movies!...put in the right special effects and you too can have a very successful Aliens franchise that goes on for years!

Hey I have an idea why don't I write that script and pitch it Disney! Because no one else will....oh by the way....no disrespect but are you people really still talking about Ellen Ripley....just let go ok take deeeep breaths.....deeep breaths! 

Leto

Jun-13-2020 2:24 AM

The scene with David standing over the exploded chest and holding up his hands while the little fully formed Xenomorph held up it's hands

One of the most touching and beautiful scenes in the history of cinema.

 

Also I don't like brainless scAvengers and similar BS. Universal failed with their Dark Universe. And the dinosaurs from JW looked stupid - they lacked only tights and cloaks to join the team of the Avengers.

 

Battle between aliens and engineers - yes. Large-scale wars - no or leave behind the scenes.

BlackAnt

Jun-13-2020 2:44 AM

@Leto

That is why critics and audiences around the world gave two thumbs down and dont like the film...the movie is a horrible pile of trash....it has some great moments in it thats it....other wise its down in the rubbish heaps of history....the film is so bad Disney does not want to risk making another one....but I told you how the new movie has to be made. Do it that way and there is still hope that maybe another movie might get made...people like what they like and like big space wars with lots and lots of special effects done right....if you like the little big hands scene great!

But there are a lot of people that found it disturbing and worthless.

We have to turn off the echo chamber in here and not be afraid to tear down these films because if we dont we will never get a better film or one ever made again.

I agree also the Jurassic Park movies I could care less about....it is the larger special effects fight scenes that larger audiences of all ages seemed to respond to so its something scientifically we cannot dismiss because of personal idealizations.

Now in your own words to be fair...what works in other films keeps working for some reason with these epic space wars in other films!

"I find it quite ironic that smart people are always talking about something new, but absolutely forget about the centuries-old wisdom - "don’t fix what is not broken". If Ridley says that "the beast is cooked" (he, btw, admitted that he was wrong) or you need to explore new ways - it's just the opinion of one person. A man whose last films, let’s say so, have performed rather sluggishly. A man who doesn't respect one of the most iconic monster in world culture."

So you even admit his last films did not perform well.

Leto

Jun-13-2020 3:24 AM

Bad performance =/= bad film. This is solid sci-fi with monsters.

And when you talk about large-scale films, I hope you understand that a lot of money will also be needed for this. So the film should pay off at the box office. R-movies with a big budget are very, very risky. Therefore, in order to increase the audience, you need to lower the rating to pg-13. pg-13 = no blood, no acid shower, no horrible deaths. Oh yes - the place of such a film only in the trash.

MonsterZero

Jun-13-2020 6:20 AM

So you even admit his last films did not perform well.

What the unwashed masses desire and I are two different matters! :-)

daliens

Jun-13-2020 6:32 AM

Alien universe is not for epic space wars, there are enough epic films that make a lot of money from the same crapy superficial super heroes super special effects Marvel recipe, so watch those if you prefer that style.

 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

MonsterZero

Jun-13-2020 8:27 AM

"epic space wars"

 

I agree with this. Xeno's are a passive species...mess with them and you'll feel their bite...But they aren't going to invade Earth....not going to see the headlines: "100 million dead in latest Xeno attack!!"

 

 

BlackAnt

Jun-13-2020 2:43 PM

 

I don't understand this. We have been here for years. Now how many ways do you want me to explain the same story.

Everyone else, "Now you all freely admit to making these terrible terrible awful films and there by destroying this entire franchise. A rather expensive movie franchise that took 40 years to ruin. About 1 billion lost in adjusted dollars in ticket sales that is minus marketing of course. The majority of critics around the world corroborates the majority of how bad these films are after Aliens. For reasons unknown these movies became just horrible after they set down on LV-426 in prequels. The movies tried to resume their course by rebooting the franchise and were largely unsuccessful and these movies were self destructed by the studio's and audiences for reasons unknown!"

Not for reasons unknown! We set out to make good movies on company orders to get a good movie produced. Which eventually destroyed audiences approval of these films world wide and your expensive franchise.

Everyone else, "The fans found no evidence of any bad movies produced only worthless praise of any garbage that was produced by these studios."

Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away! I already said these movies after Aliens are complete garbage and are not considered cannon by the original people involved in their productions that made the first two films. Do you get it. These films after Aliens are garbage. We kept making these horrible films that ruined the entire franchise.

Everyone else, "We never saw or recorded any bad films in this franchise...we love everything ever put onto film and it's all wonderful and it's these films that consistently lose money and have nothing but failure at the box office we like even more as its fan base. These are the words of our dull masses and the people unable to really critique films of any real quality correctly."

That's right look I can see where this is going. But! I am telling you that these horrible bad films exist...and if another one gets made...please you are not listening to me...Audience members went into these films and said they had terrible cinematic experiences in the millions! MILLIONS of paying customers!

Everyone else, "Thank you that will be all!"

God DMN! IT THATS NOT ALL BECAUSE IF ONE MORE OF THESE BAD SCRIPTS GETS PRODUCED DOWN HERE - WRITTEN OR ANOTHER HORRIBLE REBOOT YOU CAN KISS THIS ENTIRE FRANCHISE GOOD BYE FOR GOOD. All this fanboy BS you all consider so important you can just kiss all that goodbye!


 

daliens

Jun-13-2020 4:34 PM

Hey BlackAnt, to quote from the memory, when one note is off, it eventually destroys the whole symphony.

Maybe you should accept this franchise is not meeting you expectations and leave it alone, get back to Marvel, where all the fun is.

 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

Jun-13-2020 6:10 PM

Well the Franchise has Changed Movie to Movie, each one had Evolved to something that Fans of the Previous One did-not like, its NOT a case of ALIEN vs ALIENS.

The Direction of ALIENS may have Disappointed some ALIEN fans for others it was a Rightful Sequel.... for some ALIEN 3 was right to bring ALIENS to a End for some they was Disappointed of the KILLING of the Cast and lack of more Monsters...  we then get to Alien Resurrection which again had people who LIKED it and DISLIKED it.

At this POINT.. you was  NEVER going to please everyone and a Prequel is always a Poisoned Chalice as you are NOT going to Please everyone as they had their own Ideas/Thoughts on the Xenomorph and Space Jockey.

I think we cant compare the Franchise to MARVEL... its different... i think with Prometheus or looking at the Space Jockey you could kind of go into Star Wars Territory but you would STRUGGLE to match it.

To go there you have to Expand more than Queen lays Eggs, Silly Space Jockey tried to use them as Weapons and now Silly Humans attempt the same and Fail!

The Franchise has taken Place either in our Solar System or in the Vicinity of Zeta 2 Reticuli (Theatrically) with Prometheus the PLOT of the Engineers could have given us MANY Worlds and Species and MANY kind of Horrors.  And it seems the Engineers are NOT just restricted to our Galaxy.

STAR WARS had taken Place in a Galaxy FAR FAR away and maybe the Humans etc speak English ONLY for our Convenience ;)

If our Engineers are Inter-Galactic Creators who have been Traveling the STARS for Millions of Years, then is the EARTH the only Place that has Humans they had Created?

So YES there was SCOPE.....

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-13-2020 6:20 PM

The OT is however about a so called 50 Page ALIEN 5

I cant believe they are still trying to PEDDLE a BRING back Ripley Plot!  Have they got any NEW IDEAS? Seems NOT!

Ripley 8 was a Abomination to some, we need the Gang Back and Queens maybe again! 

From what we know from Blomkamps Alien 5 was that he had a IDEA that did-not involve Ripley but after he had discussed this with Miss Weaver while working on Chappie he had changed it to BRING BACK the Gang!

His Ideas seemed to be a Different Take on the Xenomorph, to a Degree... but bringing Ripley back in a ALIEN 3 had never Happened just seems like a Re-Hash... a MILK the COW.

ONCE... you go that route to Ret-Con something then the Door is OPEN for Disney to Reboot it all over and over and MILK it for all its Worth!

IF they are going to bring back a Ripley... i feel her Story is best Continued with a Ripley 8 Continuation... i feel AR had shown us more Potential in the Xenomorph DNA than Eggs that Pop Out our Face Huggers, that Face Rape a Victim and we get Chest Bursting etc etc.

How do you like your Eggs.... lets stick to Vanilla Sunny Side Up ;)  Well there are more USES for a Egg ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-14-2020 8:23 AM

I dont think that Disgruntled Fans should have their Cake and Eat it...

I think that going for the ALTERNATIVELY a WHAT IF and have like a Alternative Dimension/Universe where the Survivors on the Sulaco made it HOME and for 30 Years they Lived Happily ever After before someone decides to go and Bring Back Xenomorphs and Ripley is LIKE.. "oh no you dont"

This may please some... it will Satisfy those who LOVE their Popcorn and Power Rangers lol and to be FAIR! this is what could MAKE them Money (Disney) and i would NOT be shocked if we eventually get such a RETCON.

My Fear is ONCE they start this and if it makes MONEY where would they STOP as far as what do they Reboot... and HOW FAR would they MILK the Queen of Sorts.

I think what they NEED to do.. if we are going to just IGNORE bothering with the Prequels is...

1) We follow what Happens to Ripley 8, what STATE of Mind does she have, does she Battle with Demons of her Memories her Humanity and the Xenomorph Blood.  Does she Evolve as the Xenomorph DNA is at WAR with her Human DNA as far as HOW would she Evolve would she remain in Perfect Balance of Human/Xenomorph.

Would she WANT to have her Xenomorph DNA, would she want that Horror Eradicated, or could the Xenomorph start to RULE her.. does she become a ANTAGONIST.

What would other Human Companies want with HER, how would other HUMANS feel about her... would she be a OUTCAST?  Shunned as she is NOT really Human..

With Call does she have a Friend, they are both seen as Outcasts by Humans... what is it with the AUTONS would they Welcome Ripley.. but could they have their own Needs/Agenda?

The Problem is if you dont have Xenomorphs and by that close to VANILLA Xenomorphs if you dont have them or CHANGE them too much then some Fans will be UPSET!

So maybe you have to go and do THIS instead.

2) If Fans want Vanilla-Morphs... as in they want to see Eggs, Queens and Xenomorphs that remain close to the Franchise Xenomorphs.   Then REGARDLESS of what the Prequels have SHOWN...

What is the Likelyhood that the Derelict was the ONLY place that Xenomorph Eggs had been Loaded onto?  Was more than ONE Ship used... WHERE could these BE?

What does a World look like that has a Successful Deployment of Xenomorphs?

But the Problem you have then is some Fans would HOPE that such a Flick would go its way to RUBBISH that David had Created the Xenomorph... instead of just KEEPING it a Mystery and NOT mention nothing about WHERE they came from... this leaves it OPEN for Fans to then believe what they want, without having to FORCE it to suggest that the Prequels are a FARCE!

Some Fans may also WANT a Ripley back, or a Relative of Ripley.... oh look Amanda had a Child... this Child is now in her 60's and looks like her Grandmother!

I think that some Fans may get their Cake and Eat it and we will see a ALIEN 5 aka like Blomkamps... oh Ripley and Co are NOT Dead.

Then its a case of ACCEPT this as a Alternative Popcorn/Fan Service or for some Fans they can Accept it as a Rightful Continuation after ALIENS.

Popcorn ant bad at times, but what Popcorn will we get?

ALIENS which was NOT bad... even today for some its GREAT for others as we get Older it becomes a Good Solid Action Flick... not as Great as when we was Younger but a Good Sci-Fi Alien Action Flick.

AVP which for Popcorn fun was NOT that Bad... just Enjoy the Action and dont worry about Canon.

But then we could get a STINKER... a AVPR or The Predator kind of TURD!

If we get a BRING THE GANG BACK... a Ripley, Hicks maybe Newt Action Fest.. and this FLOPS!

Then i think the Franchise would be DEAD!

Well for a bit.... until they maybe contemplate a REBOOT of the LOT or make a NEW AVP Series.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Leto

Jun-14-2020 9:03 AM

>>>My Fear is ONCE they start this and if it makes MONEY where would they STOP

It is ironic that you yourself indicated the reason why we no longer have prequels. Making money is very, very bad.

It’s interesting - why haven’t we received the third film yet? Surely it's not about the money. Because the studios are only too happy to give Ridley millions on projects that cause losses. This is all a conspiracy of the Angry Filthy Alien Fans!

Undoubtedly, it is better to take a good film (Prometheus) and cut out all the cool and smart scenes from it.

Or even better - stifle a competitor's project because your ego doesn't allow the neighborhood!

And even-even better - to say that the most popular and world-famous monster is cooked.

 

>>>The Problem is if you dont have Xenomorphs and by that close to VANILLA Xenomorphs if you dont have them or CHANGE them too much then some Fans will be UPSET!

Just like Prometheus fans with Covenant, right?

 

>>>Then i think the Franchise would be DEAD!

Enough!

A franchise will be dead if and only if it ceases to generate income. And no philosophical revelations of the universe will change this.

Even the most philosophical franchise will not survive without money.

daliens

Jun-14-2020 1:25 PM

The franchise is almost dead, they have to be very careful and avoid giving it the final blow. Probably they don't have any idea where they want to go, so they think a super hero popcorn flick, a Marvel upgrade to Aliens, would sell. They tried something with The Predator and I believe it is almost impossible to resuscitate now that franchise. Bring back Ripley and it will have the same effect, Ripley saga has ended long ago. The beast is also cooked, unless David can do something new with it. Tell us something new about it.

I know a lot of fans hate David, but I believe right now he is the only one who could give a new life to the beast. And if Ridley has some ideas on how to do it, why not allow him the chance to make us happy?

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

Jun-14-2020 3:45 PM

"It is ironic that you yourself indicated the reason why we no longer have prequels. Making money is very, very bad"

I certainly saw Potential with Prometheus, that made a GOOD RETURN.. my view on Alien Covenant is that it has many Flaws and i feel the David is Creator Plot is a Mistake as it does TAKE AWAY the Enigma of the Xenomorph and its also something i KNEW would upset a lot of Fans.

I think they was surprised that Alien Covenant had Failed at the BOX OFFICE i felt that being a more Direct Prequel and having Xenomorphs that it should have done BETTER... i dont think it could be put down to Everyone knowing the Plot about David and Boycotting the Movie for that Reason.  So i bet FOX was taken by Surprise at the Low Return.

So they are in a Position that ANY kind of ALIEN Movie could be a RISK... even if say in 2016 Blomkamps Alien 5 went into Production instead with a up to $100M Budget, maybe that also would not have Return a Massive Return.

Whats for sure is that i do think Despite how you could cover the Next Few Movies i just dont think the Fans (Majority) want to see another Movie about a Android and what he wants to do, Regardless if he is shown to have or NOT had created the Xenomorph.

I think the David Arc could give a Interesting Movie if its DONE in the right way, i just dont think a HIGH % of Alien Franchise Fans would FLOCK to see it... and i dont think it has enough to PULL in Casual Fans... so only those interested in Davids Arc would be Interested.

So Financially i think its a BUST!

"Just like Prometheus fans with Covenant, right?"

I dont see the Connection? apart from the bit about Prometheus Fans being disappointed with Alien Covenant, i would say the Fanbase in General to a HIGH % had felt that AC was NOT really the right move.

"A franchise will be dead if and only if it ceases to generate income"

That is Correct... my point is lets look at Alien Covenant it could be looked at giving Fans a Direct Prequel Series that will lead to ALIEN eventually and gave us the Xenomorph and THAT did not do the Trick.

My point then being that if we had a ALIEN 5 where Ripley is still ALIVE and we get the Xenomorphs back and Queen and its pretty much not different much to ALIENS/AVP...

IF and i mean IF this Project also disappoints at the Box Office, i dont expect Disney to think its WORTH the Investment on anymore... they may likely LET the Dust Settle and then maybe do a Reboot... to get a New Generation into the Iconic Monster.

"Undoubtedly, it is better to take a good film (Prometheus) and cut out all the cool and smart scenes from it."

I can understand WHY they had CUT some Scenes... others i felt the Deleted/Alternatives were BETTER... some Cuts you had to make for Pacing to get the Movie down to a Theatrical Run Time.... quite a FEW had to be Changed by Virtue of RS not being HAPPY with the Engineer vs Dr Shaw scene in that he felt it made the Engineer look Underpowered... by Re-shooting the Engineer with Face Burn makeup on... then a Number of other Scenes had to be CUT... or Re-shot!

"Or even better - stifle a competitor's project because your ego doesn't allow the neighborhood!"

You could wonder had Blomkamp and Miss Weaver Conspired to push/leak ALIEN 5 to Generate Mass Interest and De-Rail the Interest in making a Prometheus Sequel.

Certainly the LEAK did gain a lot of interest, and maybe in PART this may have made FOX think that the Fans need to have the Xenomorph back and so they began to change the Story more to what became Alien Covenant.

RS has a Ego??? Absolutely but you get that with Directors, JC is not much different.

Ridley Scott lost input on a ALIEN sequel for a number of Reasons, a ALIEN 2 would likely had been Different to ALIENS.  After the Franchise was Finished he ONLY thing that remained unanswered from ALIEN was the Eggs, the Space Jockey and Special Order 937 and RS wanted to make sure he could have his Influence on HOW they answered those.

He seemed FINE with having Xenomorphs, although it seemed he felt their was more Scope to Explore the Space Jockey and FOX felt you did-not need the Xenomorph and indeed to cover more about the Space Jockey/Engineers anyway Blah Blah Blah i best get to the Point..

RS wanted to be able to continue with the Prequels, to Carry on in Part with some ideas he had... and you can bet that he FEARED...  the Interest that ALIEN 5 was gained was seen as a Threat to him.

I would think he would have been Concerned that if ALIEN 5 was a HIT or that FOX then got the Impression that this is WHAT will make Fans Happy and make MONEY... that it could mean FOX could rather do a ALIEN 6 than a Prometheus 2.

Ridley Scott is not YOUNG.. he also would not want to be waiting Years and so he wanted to get his Prometheus Sequel done First and then WORK with Blomkamp on ALIEN 5... RS seemed to indicate that ALIEN 5 had kind of STEPPED on the Toes a bit of his Prequels.

When it comes to the BEAST is Cooked... i think he has a Valid Point...  its a case of do you Continue to Cover the PLOT of "oh look its a Egg, whats inside" and "oh look the Queen is laying Eggs"

So when i talk about the Vanilla Xenomorph i mean the Xenomorph in its Forms that we have seen in ALIEN, ALIENS, ALIEN 3 and AVP and AVPR and so i mean its the Standard Form and Format that we have seen, which we have seen over and over, it has been Covered  a lot in Games, Comics etc..

The more you go back to repeat what you have over and over then you do RISK making it become a bit of a JOKE.. well it could LOSE its Shine of Sorts... like how Jason Voorhees and Freddy Krueger had become after Constant Sequels with similar Formula...

But for some Fans thats the appeal and so for some Fans then YES having 3 New Alien movies with Eggs, Xenomorphs and Queens and maybe Ripleys would suit them FINE...

Ridley Scott just seemed to think you could EXPAND a Spin-Off about the Space Jockey and due to the PLOT you have more Scope of Many Creations, Races, Worlds and Monsters than just those EGGS on LV-426

The latter comments he had seen you can Explore the Xenomorph but you have to Evolve it and look at Different ways of Procreation.... so he either means you have to ELEVATE the Xenomorph with more to them than just Jumping from Eggs and Killing people.  Or/And that you can look at Variants of the Xenomorph that differ from the Vanilla Version we are used to.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-14-2020 4:07 PM

To tackle something a bit Different and On Topic..

Then Leto i will have to say that there does seem to be a LACK of Interest in a Prequel about a Synthetic and THEMES of Prometheus...... I dont think every Fan wants to see the BACK END of the Engineers... with the OUTCOME of Alien Covenant it does make it difficult to bring them back as far as INTERACT with some Humans... by that where do the Engineers come from that will be Explored?

Stuck on LV-223 asleep? or they come to Planet 4 and then they become Pissed Off with what they Find... this Option would likely have them wanting to FIND who did this and TEAR them a New A-Hole!.... which would mean you may have to cover David..

This does not mean there is NO WAY to bring the Engineers in and Totally Ignore David and the Covenant ship.

The BOTTOM LINE is indeed Money.... and Disney are more interested in things that can make Money even if its MILKING or Repetitive..

AC should not have Happened how it DID.. they should NOT have caved in to thinking Fans NEED the Xenomorph..

They should have maybe given them a Sequel to Prometheus that would go back to LV-223 and Uncover more Horrors that are more ALIENY and Connected and more Clues to LV-426 so that the Door to ALIEN could be Closed of Sorts..

But more so that a Prometheus 2 could have gone off and NOT worry about the Need to Answer LV-426 and have Xenomorphs.

I think Alien Covenant is in a Pickle... if we continue with David and his Agenda... Fans will want those Eggs on the Derelict sooner rather than Latter.... i dont think they could SIT THROUGH... a slower Process to reach that Climax of the Derelict...

I dont see it getting MASSIVE interest to Warrant someone like Disney to take Risks...

But thats Hindsight....

Regarding the OT...

Again i said my piece... i dont think its wise to make a Alternative ALIENS Sequel with Ripley and Co... because you have TWO Problems that may not be Problems Financially and thats all that Matters..

If they do a Blomkamp ALIEN 5 and it Fails to make much and it SUCKS.... then WHERE does that leave the Franchise?

If however it goes down a STORM with the Fans and makes a Good Return, then Disney will likely MILK it to the point we have a 80 year Old Ripley who needs a Modified Power Loader to  Kick Ass and be Mobile lol

Joking a bit aside... i do think they would MILK it if its making Money and well its their Intellectual Property... so they can do that... i just FEAR they could then start to go and RETCON loads... a Prequel Reboot... eventually then a Complete Franchise REBOOT... with Cameos from Old Cast etc.

I think if Disney are Fearful a David continuation will NOT work.

Then i think they could go back to LV-223 have like a Alieny Action Flick.... New Monsters that are similar, but keep it Ambiguous as FAR as the Xenomorph... you simply DONT show them...

OR as i said before then go and do another ALIEN Movie with the Eggs but NOT from LV-426.... maybe some Eggs are on another Facility, others Ships had either Failed to Deploy them and Crashed on other Worlds... or they was Successful...   NO mention of the Xenomorph Origins/LV-426 as far as WHEN/HOW and NO giving us Ripley.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-14-2020 4:25 PM

"The franchise is almost dead, they have to be very careful and avoid giving it the final blow."

Unfortunately we are getting to that point YES..

I think the Potential that Prometheus has is somewhat LOST, well maybe something that Disney would NOT want to Explore... i think the Plot about Davids Arc is more so Finished as far as Majority Interest.

So maybe Fanservice is required... but if this FAILS then it could be Curtains for the Franchise!

Saying that maybe a ALIEN 5.. Ripley Returns could SELL and WORK....

I think we need to Accept the David Arc Ship has Sailed, the Ellen Ripley Saga is Buried... going back to LV-223 could maybe lead to some being Disappointed as it could make them Lament what a Prometheus 2 could have been if they did this Earlier!

I THINK what its BEST is to INTRODUCE the MONSTER to a New Generation... those 15-25 Year Old.

You can be Respectful to the Prequels by NOT giving us a Ret-Con...  but you can cover something that would introduce a Mystery about the Engineers....

You go to a Place were we get Xenomorphs, the Eggs, you can maybe have Vanilla Ones or a Alternative or BOTH.

You dont have Ripley, you dont even TRY and introduce any of her Family..

You have Humans Discover the Eggs, be it on a SHIP, on a Facility, or on a World that has FELT the Wrath of the Xenomorph!

You make it Canon but do-not interfere with whats Canon, so you DONT give any Date to HOW LONG the Eggs have been at the Place they are Located, so you dont HINT they Happened after Prometheus or Before... you simply leave this a Mystery.

You then have a SET-UP where the Next Movie you can Evolve/Change the Beast a bit... or one that takes you into Contact with the Engineers...  where with them you see a Alternative Monster...

Those Familiar with the Franchise will go and see it... the New Generation may see this as their Version of the Franchise and then be Interested (if not already) to then go and see the Original Franchise and Prequels and we can Gauge from them.. where they would maybe like to see how any Prequels could Connect.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Jun-14-2020 5:37 PM

"I THINK what its BEST is to INTRODUCE the MONSTER to a New Generation... those 15-25 Year Old."

 

I like that idea...but methinks the youngsters have seen it all and are already jaded to the gore/violence? John Wick kills hundreds...Xenomorphs kill 6-7.

 

Reboot is the way I'd go.

 

I'd love to read those 50 pages!

BlackAnt

Jun-15-2020 12:33 AM

 

Peter Weyland at TED 2023 - "I will change the world,"

 

First of all the franchise is finished if we make another bad film that loses a lot of money. So we better not make a bad film.

Let us all start with the facts. We have a fragmented cannon in the franchise. Some aspects of the narrative we all agree should not have been introduced. It's too late the studios did it and now we will fix it...You always turn every weakness into a greater strength and so we shall.

Nothing and I mean nothing is impossible with the right screen play, plot, characters, actors, special effects teams, the right budget, and great marketing before the show begins...never forget that ever. I have seen children's toys turned into multi billion dollar empires made basically from nothing....anything can be fixed if you have the vision to do it. 

We all agree the beast is cooked....and yet somehow we want to incorporate it in a much larger story that gives us a win at the box office no matter what and so of course it is possible if done in the right way.

We all agree that we have to rap up David's story in a nice neat little bow and move on.

We all agree that we want to see what happens to the colonist ship with David on it headed to Oregae 6.

I think most of us would agree the scene with David standing at the opening hatch, when the black goo is released, and aerosolled down onto one of the Engineers home world could be one of the best things ever scene in science fiction....very powerful dark horror. 

The back buster was a powerful scene. The black goo reformatted to come out as a spore, you cannot see, and that invades your body was masterful science fiction horror.

LOOK ON MY WORKS AND DESPAIR!

So we have many strengths to work with. We just have to put them into the right combination of elements and make a much more powerful film than has ever been made in all the other films in this entire franchise.

We need momentum and we need to keep the special effects on par with other larger competing franchises....and by the way Disney does not like to produce gory hard R rated films because it detracts from their other more profitable franchises....so a lot of what I am talking about is  controversial from the start depending on the demographic. Tens of millions of Disney fans have matured so this may be something they are more interested in than not if they want to stay competitive. They are a much bigger studio now so they need to look at all the angles - money is money.

THIS WE KNOW FOR SURE! THE ENGINEERS KNOW WHAT DAVID DID AND THEY ARE GOING TO GET HIM AND THE EARTH.

HINT HINT HINT! EPIC SPACE BATTLE CORRECT.

What is the last thing David does before walking into the Halls of Valhalla...he transmits back to the Weyland-Yutani corporation. What does he transmit!!!!! - Plans for war they killed Peter Weyland and now we are going to wipe them out hard and fast!!!...we do know that David has mastered the black goo to an extraordinary proficient deadly degree...He has all the power now...(plot hole - David escaped the surface of the planet but there are other engineer space craft on the surface much more powerful and can travel faster than the speed of light.....and he has the black goo why does he go for the colonist ship....I know it makes NO SENSE BUT HEY that is why we are here to fix this BS - it takes David time to crack the final encryption on these ships, to get them all off the surface and back to earth, he had been working on  breaking the last of the encryption the entire time he was there doing his other experiments and he does! - This is Peter Weyland's son - Walter is an appliance!), So David definitely reprograms Walter body and is now in him still on the surface....still has the black goo and many other larger war ships we never saw...we only think he killed Walter and escaped to the colonist ship.....NOPE NO WAY! ANYTHING CAN BE DONE if you have the vision to carry it out!

So here is the setting for our our big space battle........Weyland-Yutani now wants the black goo and the more faster powerful Engineer ships brought back to Earth....and David does this in Walters body...I can see those ships starting to land at Weyland-Yutani now...YOU FEEL THE POWER NOW DONT YOU! ANYTHING CAN BE DONE! Neill Blmkamp - we remember the leaks and the art work from his people...well we got better ideas!

So we have the other David on the colonist ship.....OH NO The Engineers catch up with that real quick and destroy it...the first big battle scene. They board it get David extract him and the entire colonist ship is now space debris. NICE NEAT LITTLE BOWS MY FRIENDS NICE NEAT LITTLE BOWS.

We still have our beloved David back on Earth now SAFE in a new more sophisticated body better than ever looking hard looking good....banking that Engineer technology into the Weyland-Yutani corporations weapons division.....so you see anything can be done! ANYTHING YOU MUST HAVE THE VISION!

Now we are ready to prepare for war with the Engineers....we have their ships, the black goo, and we have now modified and advanced their technology with more advanced David's or much more sophisticated AI, something very powerful, advancing it all real quick - you can do just about anything now with this kind of plot!!!!......it took the Engineers a few years to find the colonist ship with the other David.....a lot can happen in several years at the Weyland-Yutani corporation and this kind of technology being advanced.....Maybe the first thing we did is go right back to that classified base and on LV-223 and took more technology and destroyed the rest! So maybe 10 years has past...we shall decide what timeline we need and what works best.

BigDave I believe you are up to bat now....how do we get these two factions to go war....because now we know they are coming and they really want to finish us off....we killed a lot of their people on only one of their worlds. Maybe those were all politicians of some kind...they had nothing to do with any of their military science on LV-223.

Everyone........IDEAS! We have the power to do anything! you must now have the vision to make it happen and it shall!

War can go on for a very long time, a lot of movies, if it is the right kind of war and compelling enough to get everyone invested in all the characters all the sides....if the special effects are good enough the money will be there in the billions!

"Peter Weyland, We wield incredible power, the power to transform destroy and create again, what shall we do with this power."

MonsterZero

Jun-15-2020 6:26 AM

@BlackAnt

 

I have no problem with a war between David and the Engineers...with space battles or whatever.

But if you involve Earth with this plot, then it sends the original series off the rails......The crew of the Nostromo didn't recognize the derelict as a Engineer ship...so the war would need to take place after Alien.....Hadleys hope didn't recognize the Engineers ship, neither the crew of the Sulaco...they don't have a clue what a Engineers ship or being is...Weyland Yutani the same thing....you'd have to retcon the Alien universe....Introduce the Engineers to the timeline.....So when the crew of the Nostromo finds the derelict, they know it's a Engineers starship and to get the hell out of there. 

BlackAnt

Jun-15-2020 6:31 AM

The crew of the Nostromo had no idea the ship was even there and they were woke up by the Weyland-Yutani computer to investigate, get exposed you name it; but, Ash knew all about it - special order 937 I thought you read it too.

Ash communicated with the Weyland before the ship exploded.

The Weyland corporation new the Engineer ship was there the entire time and wanted to get the Xenomorph at any cost. They sent the colonists there on the pretext of building the atmospheric processing planet to see how long it would take them to get exposed to the alien derelict ship.

Weyland has a weapons division. They also have a covert connection to what ever governments they work with to develop weapons. They are essentially one of the largest companies in the Alien Franchise universe. So they have to be careful how they get the Xenomorph for weapons development. Going there and getting it and bringing it back to Earth may not have been part of their deal or their original objectives....ideally they would have to send a research ship to develop the Xenomorph for the weapons division of the corporation.

daliens

Jun-15-2020 7:58 AM

It seems Snow White did not see the first Alien.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

MonsterZero

Jun-15-2020 8:17 AM

I still don't see why W Y need any sort of new weapons? The Space marines have nukes, bio weapons, capable of wiping out entire civilizations, They can bioform/transform any planet to suit their need....they can use Faster Than Light tech to punch holes through any planet they want. Space bugs would be a large step backwards IMO.....if they want soldier slaves they should do something with the synthetics.

Now..Engineer tech, I can see W Y interest.

But perfect organism creatures?      I could maybe see W Y selling to some terrorist cell or something? ?

MonsterZero

Jun-15-2020 8:28 AM

Ash should/would have killed the crew right then and there(after they located the derelict)....wrecked the life support or whatever, send the message to Weyland Yutani .....then wait for them to arrive.

But if Ash didn't  know about the creature/derelict Engineers the plot makes sense.

BlackAnt

Jun-15-2020 8:30 AM

@MonsterZero

Are you serious....you have a one of kind black goo substance and it is thousands of years more advanced than any of the physics we have on Earth right now, including the Juggernaut ships and that is all worthless?....You don't think the Engineers already perfected the art of war when it comes to light speed projectiles....that is why they use the black goo in the first place....the black goo is what we call in the movie business one of those Mcguffs but who cares....the idea of seeing it all brought back to earth gets the audience ready for a huge cosmic battle....it would be hard to fight your own advanced weapons used against you if those weapons were deployed correctly.

No offence I am tired of everyone with two bit worthless opinions why nothing will ever work. The point of these discussions in my best judgement is not to say nothing will work...BECAUSE SOMETHING WILL WORK YOU JUST HAVE TO BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT THAT IS.....obviously if you knew what it was you would be doing it and you are not...you find it easy though to say some clever remark about nothing really not adding anything constructive to make something work....so no dice I dont play those games. Try and be a bit more creative...you are just wasting your time trying to be counter productive in sloppy ambushes....lets hear your great ideas...can you write more than a couple of sentences or is it that you have no real ideas worth anything at all?

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