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The Hierarchy

The Hierarchy

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BigDave

Mar-25-2020 10:27 AM

I was going to make this TOPIC the other Week, but it may kind of cover things that THIS other Topic may discus.  However this would only in Part cover what i was to Discus.

This Topic is to discus the Hierarchy of the Engineers but it also can discus Multiple Layers beyond the Engineers.

Throughout the Prequels it appears we had been SHOWN various kind of Engineers.

*Sacrificial Engineer (which we can assume was the same as the LV-223 Engineers).

*Elder Engineers (Frail looking Older versions of the Sacrificial Engineer) which their appearance may not have to be Considered Canon.

*LV-223 Engineers (which appear to be similar to the Sacrificial and Deleted Elder Engineers).

*Planet 4 Engineers (who appeared to be a little more Human Looking and confirms these at least have Females and can Procreate).

*Hall of Heads Statues (these guys are referred to as the Hierarchy some of them look like the Prometheus Head Statue while some look like the Elder Engineers).

Ridley Scott had said he did-not want to meet GOD in the First Movie, in part in relation to the REMOVAL of the Elder Engineers Scene.  This in Part means the Sacrificial and LV-223 Engineers are NOT the Hierarchy or Gods.

This implies he maybe wished to REVEAL the Hierarchy in a Sequel, he had said that David and Dr Shaw would be off to the PLANET of the Engineers, where they would Discover these beings who are NOT really Gods.

If we assume that Planet 4 is the Engineers Home-World in Question, then we do see the Inhabitants that look a little Different to the LV-223 Engineers.  Does this mean the Planet 4 Engineers are in a Hierarchy above the Prometheus Engineers or the Prometheus Engineers are a Engineered Sub-Creation or just Genetically Enhanced Planet 4 Engineers?

But what i would like to Concentrate more on are the HALL OF HEADS Statues.

Ridley Scott referred to these Guys as the Wise Men (implying they are Old and Wise), the Apostles (keepers and passers on of their Ways), and Superior Beings (Superior to Who).

Chris Seagers calls them the Hierarchy and False Gods

So the purpose of this TOPIC is to see how you feel about the Engineers Hierarchy, are these Hall of Head Engineers similar or different to the Planet 4 and/or LV-223 Engineers.  Or are they Exactly the same Species and the Hierarchy is only like we have on Earth as far as Rulers/Kings or Persons of High Rank within a Civilization or Religious Sect and so Genetically they are just Engineers.

These Hall of Heads Engineers certainly could be Considered the Founders of Humanoid Species (those who are closely related to Engineers/Humans).

And so i ask....  ARE YOU SATISFIED?

*Should we have explored these Founders/Hierarchy should they be Revealed to be different, Superior.

*Would you Envisage them to be like the Elder Engineers from the Deleted Scene? (as opposed to like the Planet 4 beings).

*Would you like to see the Hierarchy revealed as this Hall of Heads guys but have them be True Giants (10-12ft+).

*OR are you not pleased and would like to INTRODUCE some other Species that are above and Created the Engineers and if so WHAT would you like these more True Gods to look like.

In our many Religions and Mythos the Gods and their Chain of Hierarchy (Lower Ranks) are depicted as being VERY Human, some Cultures they look different to a Degree.

But within the ALIEN Franchise, do you think the Higher Layers of the CAKE should be as Human as Mankind/Engineers or would you prefer a True Hierarchy that is DIFFERENT?

Finally i would like to add that the Engineers Concepts did have some Beings that were LESS than Human that we got, some even Quite Different.... would you like to see some of these Concepts brought into the Franchise and How?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

5 Responses to The Hierarchy

Dark Nebula

Mar-26-2020 7:01 AM

I have long speculated that the hall of heads was some kind of Parlament, but also a very old and sacred place for engineers. Looking at each stone head in the hall, I noticed that each stone head depicts a different engineer: One head depicts an engineer with wrinkled skin, raised brow ridges, high nose bridge. Another head depicts a younger engineer with raised brow ridges and a high nose bridge (similar to that of a sacrificial engineer), the other head depicts an engineer with low nose bridge and wrinkled skin, etc. You get what I mean. There are 7 stone heads in total.

The stone heads also appear in David's lab.

It seems to me that each stone head depicts an elder, and that specific elder is a representative of a race, culture of engineers. Ridley did say that the hall of head depicts elders; intellectuals, artists, wise men. So, one stone head might represent Planet 4 engineers, the other one LV-223 engineers, as for the others it remains a mystery.

As far as another species being introduced, I already pointed this out in other topics, the space jockey might just be one of the LV-223 engineers, genetically enlarged and enhanced for specific jobs. I drew my own depiction of SJ, so I will show it here:

BigDave

Mar-26-2020 8:20 AM

"I have long speculated that the hall of heads was some kind of Parliament"

That certainly is a likely Prospect, what we have to remember is some comments that RS has said about the Engineers.   It seems indicated that Earth is surely not the only World they had Seeded and Manipulated Life in their own Image.   They (RS and Seagers) had indicated the Engineers are NOT a Race but a Civilization, and RS has said before that just because Mankind has Various Races, then WHY cant the Engineers.

As you noted Dark Nebula some of the Hall of Heads Engineers do have some differences like how Various Races of Humans on Earth have some differences as far as Eyes, Nose, Bone Structure etc.  The image i posted above is interesting because Number 3 looks quite different, Number 4 a little too, they have somewhat of that Star Trek Bajoran look to them.  So its possible there are Differences to the Scale of in Star Trek as far as some Humanoid Races, for example Vulcans look Very Human.

But then Humans can also look different to each other especially some Races seem to have more Variety in Appearances between themselves.

I think however if we bring it back to the Hall of Heads then its likely these GUYS are Long Gone, unless they have Found a Secret to Extend their Lives, or they as Founders and Ancient have a Longer Life Span than the more Modern Engineers.  But it would seem likely those beings who had those Statues Made in their Image are GONE if we assume these Statues are Many Thousands of Years Old.   But then they may-not represent individuals but Entire Different Species/Races of Engineers

But as RS said they are the 10 Apostles then its likely they represented 10 Individuals, but these Individuals could have some Racial Differences

The Whole Engineers Background could have been expanded in MANY ways with Curveballs... like they could have revealed that they came from US.. Mankind, and so that Humans Predated them many Millions of Years ago, but these Humans (from Distant Worlds) are Gone but maybe some Engineers began to Re-Create us on Earth?

Or that many Races Existed and their was some Great War of the Worlds, and at the End of this, Various Humanoid Races decided to come together and START a New World on Planet 4, in Peace and Intermixed with each other.

There are so many ways that their History and the History of Humanoid Species could have been Explored.

The Engineers are Gardeners of Space, we can assume that ONE of their Main Objectives would be to Experiment, Evolve and Engineer various types of beings in their Image and with their Mixed DNA.

The Engineers come and go to that place (Planet 4) as far as RS had said, and so its likely they either have other Worlds or they have other Worlds they have Sub-Creation like Humans on that they Visit.

Planet 4 maybe being a Genetic Stock Pool from which they Source Material to Seed/Evolve Worlds, or they do these on other Worlds until they achieve a desired Result and introduce this Species to their Gene-pool on Planet 4.

I would say these Hall of Heads are the Founders of a Culture and Ways that these Species had decided to adopt be it that they are ONE Race, or a Group of Races that had came together to FORM a NEW ORDER.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-26-2020 8:38 AM

I will add a lot of this Subject may end up being similar to what has been discussed in other Subjects like THIS ONE of yours Dark Nebula we have had Plenty of Subjects on the Engineers over the years.

The Main Purpose for this Topic (but i welcome things that go Off Topic a bit) was to discus the Hierarchy Order of the Engineers and we have to ASSUME that the Hall of Heads represents this, so its a case of are we  PLEASED about that?  

Should those Hall of Heads guys be revealed as being much Taller?  The Space Jockey is one Dilemma that Bugs some Fans, Particularly the Height, but we have debated this quite a LOT over the years.

Alas they was supposed to be 12-15ft, but RS was against using Special Effects and wanted to be as Practical as Possible.  This does-not rule out a Introduction to a Taller Race of Engineers, or even a Engineered Giants.

We have discussed such things before however... the Scale Difference for our Space Jockey could be explored by introducing another Species/Modification of a Humanoid.

We could maybe even introduce the SJ as another Species all together.   I think when looking at Prometheus and to a degree Alien Covenant what we see (and it applies to Various Mythos/Religion) is a Sub-Creation, Creator and Rebellion Narrative.

Engineers Create Mankind, who Create David, who potentially could Genetically Engineer the Human Embryo's to Create his Own Humanoids... and each time there is a Rebellion of Creation against their Creator.

And so the Origins of the Engineers could be from a Enslaved, maybe Created Species that are a USED by another Species until a Time of a Rebellion and Down Fall of this other NOW FALLEN Species from Millions and Millions of Years or Much Longer in the Past.

Such a Species could be FAR LESS Human looking if they chose to introduce such a Layer to the Cake.

I am Fine with the Engineers, and having to accept our Space Jockey is a Engineer... i would however like to see another Layer of the Cake that is NOT SO as Human as Mankind and Engineers.... be this Layer Pre-Exists the Engineers or is something that say David would Create.

I dont think we need to go too ALIEN with it though ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Mar-29-2020 4:00 AM

I am not sure about how this fits with the topic but it was about the hierarchy. I think that it would be interesting to see something about their society. Maybe they have something like priests, guards, doctors, and so on, each that has its purpose in their society.

If their society is hierarchical, then in some way those high up could also physically be taller to show strength so that could show that strength was something that the Engineers found important. Maybe this is a bit dumb but I just thought about that.

Sometimes practical effects work and sometimes they are needed. In this case I think that they should have been used because the Engineers should have looked more intimidating. Unfortunately what we got were some people that looked like humans with white face-paint which I think was a disappointment. They should have looked closer to the one in Prometheus simply because that looked better.

They are interesting but they could also introduce something that is farther away from humans because it could bring some needed mystery especially if they will go with the effed up idea that David created the monster. More Engineers would be nice and to see some about them but to have more mystery about them now that they have messed with the Xeno as a result of a bored robot.

BigDave

Mar-30-2020 2:42 PM

Certainly would have been interesting in see how their WHOLE Society and Culture is RAN, and from these we could look at our History and what Differences we had and when.

When Chris Seagers compared the Hall of Heads to the Hierarchy, we have to assume these Statues represent like the Founders of the Ways of the Engineers, so they would have been the ones who had Set and Governed the Ways and Knowledge and so WHILE they may be gone, their Ways are likely Still Stored in that Cathedral on those Scrolls.  Much like how Abrahamic Religions would have their Books that keep the Ways of their Religion to be Taught and Passed on.

We can only Speculate on what those Hall of Heads guys looked like, as i would Assume they are LONG GONE, if they are NOT then surely they must be somewhat Divine or have Achieved some kind of Psychical Immortality which i doubt.

We cant really say if they are/were Vastly Taller, they could even be SMALLER than our Engineers.  It seems the Planet 4 Engineers would Vary quite a bit in Height, it appears they could be about 25% Taller than Humans and so maybe those Engineers can Range from 6-9ft

The LV-223/Prometheus Engineers had more of a Enigmatic look to them, they were like a Adonis Marble Statue of sorts, it could be that these Engineers are a Genetic Experiment/Upgrade and so they are more likely to be the Same as the Genetically Created Slaves in this Movie from 2016  called 2307: Winter's Dream/Solider 

"They are interesting but they could also introduce something that is farther away from humans"

I think that could work, as i had said by Adding another Layer to the Cake but we can only Imagine how FAR away from Humans these may look.  I am sure there are a Number of Plots you could use to Introduce some other Hierarchy above the Engineers.

Do they have to be a Organism?  What if the Higher Creators are Synthetic, well some kind of A.I but it could be that they was NOT always that way, but they Transcended themselves PAST the use of a Mortal Body... maybe they want Bodies Back?

This seems NOT too FAR from what Jon Spaights had as the Back Ground Plot when he pitched his Idea for a Prequel which had then gone through a Evolutionary Process until we arrived at Prometheus.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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