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Paradise: Precautions

Paradise: Precautions

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BigDave

Mar-04-2020 7:09 AM

This is something that i had discussed in the Past, indeed at the Time we saw the Dead Engineers and Bombardment Scene prior to the Release of Alien Covenant.

I think we can assume that Provided those Engineers on Planet 4 are aware of what the Substance in those Vases/Urns is capable of, then you would ASSUME they would have some kind of Precaution/Protective Measures.

I recently came across this Painting by Beksinski

The Building in the Background with its Winged Arches reminding me of the Cathedral Domes Doors from Alien Covenant.  The Picture somewhat reminding me of the Bombardment from Alien Covenant.

When i look at the Eye-less Ghouls from that Painting it does remind me of the Neomorph's.

Yet we dont see those Engineers Mutate into anything, they appear to have ended up becoming Desiccated and like Stone.  However the other Infection from the Aftermath of the Bombardment came from Neomorph Spores which are a result of the Bombardment which lead to the Neomorphs.

When we look at the Experiments that David was working on, what we do see is they seem to be BASED OFF the Neomorph.

So it was a Wonder to WHY the Engineers just simply Turned to Mummified remains...

David did say the Pathogen would take Multiple Forms, and would either Kill Out Right or Create Hybrid Form.  We see that the Sacrificial Engineer had Ingested a lot of the Pathogen and his Body just Dissolved, we saw that Fifield became a Hybrid Form (especially the Alternative Version and Concept Work).

With Holloway it was difficult to see what was becoming of him, but RS had indicated his FATE would have been the same that Killed the Engineers on LV-223 and he also said  that Fifield would have just Exploded like the Engineers Head.

But we do not see this happening to the Planet 4 Engineers, but the Pathogen as a Radical Form of A.I could be Programed to have different Effects.

However i think its interesting to Speculate what kind of Preventative Measures the Engineers would have.  The Cathedral Dome had began to SHUT, we saw some Walls/Pillars that seemed to trying to Contain those Engineers in the Courtyard from Escape.

There was a Number of Engineers in the Cathedral Dome as the Bombardment began and for David to have TESTED and came across Organisms like the Neomorph and his other Experiments, it seems LIKELY that some Engineers had SURVIVED.

For such a Important World that has Knowledge of the Juggernaught Ships, even having a Hanger for them, you would ASSUME they would have some Precautions in Place and so MAYBE they had a Procedure that would cause something to HAPPEN that would KILL OFF the Pathogen and Living Matter within a Radius?

I had Speculated about such a Safety Device before, but thats NOT to say what has Happened.  But it just got me thinking about it again after seeing the Beksinski Painting and wondering if SUCH a Preventative Protocol was Activated that lead to the Mummified Engineers, then if such a Protocol was not Activated would the Engineers had become like the Beksinski Painting and thus Neomorphs (or related).

Some kind of Defense Measure maybe could cause a BLAST that would knock the Juggernaught and Scorpionaut Docking Ship out of the SKY (but it was explained they had a Dust Up).

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

9 Responses to Paradise: Precautions

dk

Mar-04-2020 2:36 PM

The Planet 4 inhabitants' awareness of the pathogen is interesting. It appears that the shield could have been meant to protect the populace against it in case of such an event that David brought. The shield may have been effective at the time it was created but maybe the pathogen had evolved to penetrate the shield and yield unpredictable results on the populace.

That  Beksinski painting is an interesting find. There is a lot to look at and speculate about.

BigDave

Mar-05-2020 5:18 AM

Interesting you bring up the SHIELD as this is something i was also going to mention.  When the Bombardment Starts the Urns do seem to STOP at a Certain Height and Break and Spread Out, and you could be Forgiven for thinking they have such hit some kind of DOME.

Such as like the TV Series (Under the Dome)

So we cant rule out that Planet 4 had Similar, something to Consider is that Paradise well the Garden of Eden that is in Paradise is a Walled City.   There is NO better way to Control and Monitor a Population than to have them Confined to a Single Area/City much like the City (Bregna) from Aeon Flux

So maybe a Shield was NOT really created to Protect against a Bombardment because the Engineers were NEVER concerned about their own kind UNLEASHING the Pathogen on their own kind, and they were so Naive to think that NO other Species would ever be able to arrive at the Place they Create/Store this Substance.

But the Shield was a Good way to Prevent anyone leaving or entering the City.  Which maybe the Scorpion Ship was in Control of and ONCE this Ship had Crashed then the Barrier can not be Erected and also any Engineer Ships are Stranded.  So the Scorpion Docking Ship acts as a Form of Border Control and Watches over the City like the Relical from Aeon Flux maybe?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-05-2020 5:30 AM

I think looking at the Potential for their being some other Safety Device then we know the Pathogen infects Living Organisms, well the MEAT if you would.  Then maybe something that would EFFECT all Living Matter in a Radius and basically just Solidify the Genetic Building Blocks in effect Desiccating Living Matter could also STOP the Pathogen from Spreading and doing what it was supposed to do.

Thats not to say this is what Happened, but something that could do this would be a IDEAL Safety Precaution.

I suppose we have to look at what the Pathogen was intended to do, we have Ridley Scott tell us that the Engineers use it to CLEAN UP places, and they would Return Hundreds of Years latter to then be able to START AGAIN.  This would be a BIT ODD if the Pathogen goes on to Create Hybrid Horrors like the Neomorph.

"sometimes to create, one must first destroy" this comment by David could mean the Pathogen is USED to Clean Up a World, or it could be the Intention is to Replace One Organism with another.

But another Explanation for those Engineers could be the Pathogen can be Weaponized and Programed to Infect only Certain Genomes and Spread and Eventually instead of Changing the DNA/Genome it just changes the Genetic Material into a Solid State.   This would indeed make it a IDEAL Weapon to CLEAN UP a World.

The Neomorph's are a different matter but i believe they likely came from a Spillage of Urns after the CRASH and so the Pathogen that Leaked from these was not Weaponized/Programed and so its Effects are more similar to what we saw in Prometheus (Hammerpedes).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Mar-10-2020 7:39 AM

"Ridley Scott tell us that the Engineers use it to CLEAN UP places, and they would Return Hundreds of Years latter to then be able to START AGAIN. This would be a BIT ODD if the Pathogen goes on to Create Hybrid Horrors like the Neomorph."

Great point on the Neomorph...they are so very uncosmopolitan.  Any reasonable, civilized Engineer knows how difficult it is to enforce the requirement that Neomorphs must wear a cloak while in town.     

 

Director Commentary

There are a couple of items to also note in regards to Ridley Scott...in the director's commentary if you haven't listened yet in Alien: Covenant.  

He mentions that "The six elders of the entire civilization" when showing the large heads in the temple on Planet 4 and the mutagen is referred to as "filth" as "this filth, kills the planet in months, years to clean, evolve, and start again.."

 

 

Ingeniero

Mar-10-2020 7:44 AM

The painting above from Beksinski is a shockingly-relevant example of what we are discussing when comparing it to what happened on Planet 4.

Beksinski could work as concept art for the prequels....

BigDave

Mar-10-2020 9:09 AM

Some of Beksinski Aesthetic (from the image you shared) did seem to be what Planet 4 would have looked like from some of the Early Concepts.  (Certainly  Steve Messings)

Regarding the Pathogen.... i think it depends on what it really does.

When looking at the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus we see the Engineer Consumes the Substance and his Body Breaks Down/Apart...  he is deconstructed Molecule by Molecule.

Then we see his Chains of DNA begin to Repair themselves.. then we see Single Cells Evolving to Multiple and Replicating.

This Indicates that the Sacrificial Scene has likely done of of TWO things.

1) The Substance breaks Down the Engineers DNA into Particles/Molecules if you would from his ONE Body he breaks down and Reforms into Millions and Millions of Cells and these Cells become the FIRST signs of LIFE or at least a Basic Life that then Evolves.

2) These Millions of Millions of Particles if you would go on to INFECT some Basic Life that is already on the Planet and Evolves this Life into a Complex Life. So the Sacrificial Scene is a Catalyst that causes Basic Life to Evolve to Complex and this Complex Life carries the Engineers DNA.

The Planet in Prometheus had signs of Plant Life, Algae and Moss and so OPTION 2 was most likely... when also looking at Jon Spaights draft Alien Engineers and HOW the Nano-Scarabs worked.. then again OPTION 2 seems the Likely Outcome of the Sacrificial Scene.

Considering that....

Could we ASSUME that if you FILLED the Urns up with the Sacrificial Goo and Dropped them down on a World then maybe it would Break Down all the Organic Life on a World and Basically send the World back to the Basic Stage of like the Sacrificial Scene?

If this is a Good Assumption then i think it makes just as GOOD a Biological Weapon.   You can in effect Return a Worlds Population back to a Evolutionary point that was Many Millions of Years prior...

Even if we just look at what Happened to the Sacrificial Engineer, he was NO threat once that Consumed Pathogen had Infected him.... he was in EFFECT... KILLED.

If you rained down Millions of Gallons of the Sacrificial Goo onto a City you can Safely Assume the Same Fate would await those who are in contact with the Pathogen.

Therefor the Sacrificial Goo makes a BETTER Weapon.. one that you just wait a While and then you can Return and the Life-Forms that posed a Threat are GONE...

As the Engineers are Genetic Gardeners of Space and Seeding Worlds and Creation seems to be more there thing as opposed to Creating Horrors like the Neomorph/Deacon.

Then the Sacrificial Goo makes a BETTER TOOL to Reset a World...   AND... if you are NOT so Happy with the DNA of Life on Side World... then you can surely Sacrifice/Collect the DNA of a Desired Organism and Store that in the Urns and Bombard that so this DNA then Evolves the Life on said World.

This is HOW i saw the GOO from Prometheus, it is also appears the WAY that Jon Spaights had intended it.

If this is the CASE then the Engineers would NOT be so Concerned about a Returning SEEDING ship. (Originally there was NO Pebble Ship but it was to be a Croissant Ship) so if these Ships are a UPGRADE to the Seeding Ships then a Returning Ship would be Welcomes especially if its considered a Honor, Right of Passage and a kind of  Immortalization that being CHOSEN and used as a Sacrifice would bring.

However such a TOOL can be Miss-Used..  if you came across some Organism that you liked the Traits of, or you wanted to Experiment and Create something that you then become Obsessed with and see THIS Organism as the Perfect DNA to be Seeding Worlds with instead of Engineer DNA.

Then that could indeed Lead us to the LV-223 Perversion of the Creation/Evolutionary Tool ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Mar-10-2020 10:50 AM

The texture of the surfaces of the buildings in the Messings' art is such a close match to Beksinski that one might think it was an inspiration.  Great comparison BigDave and a great excuse to look at Steve Messings' art again.

Leto

Mar-11-2020 6:42 AM

1. I think we forgot about one important component - the water. The first stage of process with the Sacrifice Engineer is very similar to what happened with:
1) the inhabitants of the Planet 4.
2) the head of an engineer on the LV-223.
3) the corpses of engineers on the LV-223.
4) Charlie Holloway.

They all started (at different speeds) to decay and explode.

There is one difference - the second stage - The Sacrifice Engineer fell into the water; and DNA reconstruction and the formation of new cells occurred in water. Without water, the Engineers of Planet 4/LV-223 (and Charlie for sure too) just exploded. And eventually they just withered.

 

2. The second important component - the filter. The Sacrifice Engineer could be some kind of filter for a pathogen. Well, the filter-creature is just a life form that interacts with the pathogen. Engineers, humans, worms, etc...

 

3. The third important component - the dosage. The Sacrifice Engineer drank a small glass of pathogen and (don't forget about water) that’s why it worked. But Engineers of Planet 4 were literally covered in pathogen + lack of water = they burned as filters.

David said: "it either kills or spawns a hybrid form". I think it depends on the dosage + water:

1) Small dosage + water = decay, explosion and DNA reconstruction. (The Sacrificial Engineer)

3) Big dosage - water = decay, explosion and spawn of hybrid form. (Hammerpede, strange creatures from the Engineers of Planet 4).

4) ? dosage - water = only decay and explosion. (Engineers LV-223, Enginner's head)

5) Mid dosage - water = slow decay and explosion. (Fifield)

Questions:

a) Origin of Neomoph spores? Dosage ?, water confirmed.

b) Origin of Trilobite? Small dosage - water + alcohol as component?

 

BigDave

Mar-11-2020 5:42 PM

@Leto

Thats a Great Observation ;)

I had discussed on here quite a long while back now about if WATER  was important to the effects of the Pathogen, so its Nice to see this brought up again ;)

Spaights Scarabs were Airborne, but while its the Basis for what became the Goo, with Lindeloffs draft the Engineers Test the Water if i remember right... so it was IMPORTANT.

With Holloway it was not quite so easy to see what was Happening, what we do see is that he had a DRINK that was Spiked and so again maybe this Liquid which would have had a High % of Water is what made the Pathogen able to Create what ever then infected Dr Shaw.

We did see the Eye-Worm, which was a Puzzle but the Props that went unused seemed to show that Holloway would produce more of these.

However we never saw this on screen and what we did see was similar to the Sacrificial Engineer at a Slower Rate (or so it seemed via the Substance running through the Veins).  Even if we considered these Props it would seem the Worms are the First Stage of what had started to become of Holloway after he Collapsed in the LV-223 Complex.

Ridley Scott i think said the same thing that was happening to Holloway had happened to the Engineers on LV-223 and i do recall he 100% said that Fifield would have ENDED up exactly the same as the Engineer Head so his Expanding Cranium would have Exploded at Some Point.

Amount of Goo Exposure would also account for differences of Infections..

I noticed you also made the Holloway + Alcohol (likely 80-85% Water), and also i the Neomorphs too were from the Spores which likely came from Fungi/Mold that had grown near Water and so likely the Goo had entered a Water Supply running down the Mountain, through the Ship and into the Stream.

Overall i think you take on the Goo is Logical, i think its a Plausible Explanation ;)

The Engineers on LV-223 the Suits did seem Hollow so they looked like they Exploded but nothing remained, so that could be said about the Sacrificial Engineer...  ONE of the Big Questions was always HOW did they get Infected?

You would assume they would have Safety Precautions and are used to the Pathogen as far as working with it. The Space Jockey Suits likely Function more as a kind of Bio-Hazard Suit.   And a Contaminated Water Supply could be a Answer to a Infection, especially if Sabotage was involved ;)

Another Interesting thing was the URNS that had been Activated in Prometheus, they seemed to LEAK a Oil Like Substance, that appeared different a bit to the Sacrificial Goo and when David had opened a Urn and taken a Ampoule Out.  What it seemed like was that a Smaller Amount of Dark Dirt/Sand Particles were Suspended within a Clear Liquid.   The URNS maybe have Multiple Components something triggered the Contents of the Urns to Dissolve together and Turn it into the Oil Like Substance.

David had said regarding the Bombardment that the Pathogen Atomizers with the Air, which could explain WHY it also effected the Engineers in the way it did.  The Ship maybe Weaponizes the Urns a Certain way compared to HOW they had Leaked in Prometheus (likely also after the Crash in Alien Covenant).

I think we also have to remember that David said its a Form of Radical A.I which basically makes it a McGuffin to do what ever they want it to do ;)

I do find the GOO as something Interesting and something it would be Good to know more about, it does seem very Plausible that a Number of Things can Effect how the Pathogen would behave.

Water indeed being something Clearly to NOT over look.

My Topic was to suggest maybe a WHAT IF there was some Device/Safety Precaution that could have been Activated to account for the Desiccated Engineers, there is however NO real Evidence to suggest this is the Case.

I think its interesting to discus if they had Safety Precautions though, i would assume the SUITS are one part of that.   Also the Big Head Room seemed to somehow HALT the Infection before the Room was Contaminated.  Once that Door was open something had Affected the Room, but we see that Engineers had Entered the Room in the Past as they was RUNNING towards it.  The Body of the Headless Engineer appeared Hollow, yet the Helmet Contained a Head that was Preserved.

A Pressurized Environment could Answer it, hence the Need for the Engineers to have their Suits. (Deleted Shots indicate they could Survive outside without them), but a Pressurized Environment could remove 100% Oxygen and Hence the Need for the Suits.   But then it could also be the Prometheus Crew without Helmets that affected the Room (CO2 maybe) which is Hence why the Engineers have the Suits?

I would like to thank you for your input, it certainly makes sense as are indeed things i had considered too.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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