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Origae-6

Origae-6

3 Upvotes42 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
Forum Topic

BigDave

Sep-23-2019 4:17 PM

I thought i would make a Topic to discus ORIGAE-6

To discus what we Know, and what we Speculate this Place would be......

What we know about this Place is that it was the Destination of the USCSS Covenant prior to its Accident and then Detour to Planet 4.

It is implied that Origae-6 is a Earth like Planet, it seems it would be Habitable and have Liquid Water and Lakes, and it was a World that had been VETTED for Many Years and deemed a Suitable World to begin a New Colony on.

A New Eden, a Earth 2.0

What we also found out is that while this World is Habitable it is maybe NOT quite as Earth-like as Home (Earth) as the Crew discus how Planet 4 is more suitable than the Best Projections of Origae-6

We can only Speculate as to HOW FAR it is to Origae-6, the Covenant ship is 7 Years and 4 Months away as of the END of Alien Covenant.  What we do know is that there are 7 More Charge Cycles to Origae-6 and from the Origins Novel it would indicate the Covenant had suffered its Accident during its First of what would be 8 Re-charge Cycles until Origae-6 and so Oriage-6 is about 7X further away than Planet 4, and it appears that the Covenant would have taken about 10-11 Months before it had to make its First Re-Charge.

It is NOT so Important to work out HOW FAR AWAY it is to Origae-6 the Drafts to Alien Covenant indicate the Covenant was 239 Light Years from Earth at the Start of the Story, which would mean Origae-6 would be about 1900 Light Years away but thats using what the Drafts say.... they also only indicate 6 More Re-Charge Cycles left and so almost 1700 Light Years away.  Those Distances would take the Nostromo 35/40 Years to reach.  With Alien Covenant the Movie we get a indication that Planet 4 is near the Zeta 2 System and so maybe not 240 Light Years away.

REGARDLESS.... as i mentioned the Main Purpose would be to Speculate on WHAT would this World Look like, would it have LIFE and if so to what LEVEL?

Would the World have NO Intelligent Inhabitants? Would it be a World with Signs of Previous Civilization or a VIRGIN World?

So what do you Speculate the World to be like, and/or what would you like to See the World revealed as..

And also WHAT do you think would Happen, would the Covenant Arrive Safely what about the Colonist... what PLAN would David have?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

42 Responses to Origae-6

chli

Sep-24-2019 12:15 AM

Well, Origae-6 is far, far away and David is out of mutagen. On the other hand, he has a couple of facehugger embryos. I wonder if they need an egg to mature in? What can David do with them in the lab on the Covenant? Will he make a xeno-army out of the 2000 colonists? Will Daniels and Tennessee be alive?

I picture Origae-6 as a paradise with sun and moons and flora but only small, harmless variants of fauna (and lakes where Daniels could have built here cabin). If David decides to build his army there, it will become barren and dark.

hox

Sep-24-2019 12:25 AM

Planet 4, ‘square in the habitable zone’, is described as being beyond the most optimistic projections for Origae-6, with oceans, land mass and a living biosphere indicated as desirable elements. The implication of this is that Origae-6 is either a bit too hot/cold/wet/dry for comfort, or is sterile.

The crew expected at least the possibility of hostile multicellular life, hence the provisioning of weapons, but I rather doubt they expected to find technological civilisation. That would have surely shown up in any long range scans.

They don’t have an atmosphere processor (they have a rudimentary ‘terraforming’ module), so they really do need a planet with oxygen. Since oxygen is unlikely to be present without life, this leads me to think Origae-6 is not sterile.

Ergo, Origae-6 is Earth-like but is a little too hot, cold, wet or dry for comfort. It has life, but no technology.

Leto

Sep-24-2019 1:18 AM

If Origae-6 is a planet with life, the Engineers should know about it.

Interesting - what if Origae-6 will have the buildings and artifacts of the Engineers? Maybe - research labs, temples or even dock for spaceships. The last point - it will be very convenient to connect with Alien.

 

About lifeforms of Origae-06. [strike]It will depend on the budget.[/strike] The premise for the lack of fauna on Origae-6 was simple - the pathogen destroys all non-botanical life. And spores of neomorphs were very effective. But I doubt that xenomorphs can destroy all non-botanical life. I hope we will see the indigenous inhabitants of Origai-6 in wild nature.

BigDave

Sep-24-2019 7:45 AM

Some Interesting Comments

I would ASSUME that as some have said, that Origae-6 would be a World that is Habitable where it should be able to Support Life from Earth without the Need of Space Suits or Terra-forming.  I would assume that it could be some what of a Primordial World and so maybe it would look NOT too different from the Prometheus Opening Scene?

I think Certainly there would be Water, Lakes, Oceans., but to how much Water is anyone's Guess.

I think Certainly it would have Weather systems and Storms but quite how Extreme is anyone's Guess.

I think Certainly there would be Life, but to what Extent and Diversity is anyone's Guess.

I think when we look at Earth, there are places on Earth that are NOT that ideal for Living on, but you could Survive there.  Places that are maybe a Little too Arid/Dry and Hot, Places that are maybe a Little to Cold, Places that have Sparse Plant Life compared to other Places.

The Earth is Fortunate to have a lot of Fertile, Temperate Lands, but there are some Places that are much Less Suitable.

I would Speculate it could be similar to those Locations as far as Topography, but who knows about Weather, and Climate.  I would suspect that it is for the Most Part only as Hostile or Unfavorable as some of the Less suitable Places on Earth.  But none the less Places that with Technology the Covenant has, they could Grow Vegetation/Plants in Places that lack too much Diversity.  For example a Arid Place they could Extract Underground Water and Make Irrigation systems so they can sustain and grow Plants and Crops.

Colder Places they could maybe Warm some Locations up, or use Heated Green Houses etc.

I would assume that there has to be some Woodlands though, so they can use the WOOD as a Resource.  Or in areas that lack much Woodland they could Plant Trees.

Would this WORLD have had signs of Prior Civilization.

I would doubt it.... but it could be interesting to maybe indicate this, BUT if they do so it would have to be in Regards to a Long Lost Civilization, that had Disappeared Thousands and Thousands of Years ago.

So we could maybe Speculate it was a Place the Engineers had HIT the Reset Switch and the World is in he Process of Recovering and in Future would be Ripe for the Engineers to come and Re-Seed again.

I think having the Place look like a Engineer World, especially like the Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic would be too much a Coincidence but then what a Convenience

Likewise i dont think there should be much Evidence of Previous Civilization, certainly NO inhabitants... but maybe they could Discover a Ruined City and Skeletons etc.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Gavin

Sep-24-2019 8:45 AM

Well,

Considering what we have seen thus far I think we can eliminate environments such as

- Primordial (LV-426)

- Desolate (Fiorina-161)

- Arctic (AVP)

- Forest (AVPR, Alien: Covenant)

- Barren (Prometheus)

Unless we go with an extreme environment such as Star Wars planets Kamino (all water) or Mustafar (volcanic), I think the likely environments could be jungle or desert, unless 'they' (Scott, Fox, Disney) are afraid of similar properties such as Predator or Stargate.

I think we can all agree that it would be nice to see a biomechanical, Lovecraftian nightmare landscape, but I doubt 'they' have the balls to do that.

chli

Sep-24-2019 10:41 AM

Perhaps a Planet of the Apes scenario: Some colonists escape from David (captives for experiments) and wanders off into the wild only to find ruins of human civilisation. The downfall having occurred thousands of years ago, finding human skeletons and pieces of urns and mummified remains of creatures with long heads and long pointy tails . . .  :)

BigDave

Sep-24-2019 3:07 PM

Firstly i will add these Photos of Planet 4 and LV-223

We see that LV-223 is Rocky, Desert like and Mountainous we cant rule out Lakes etc, there is Ice/Snow.  The Main Problem seems to be a LACK of Vegetation and the Atmosphere contains a few Gases/Chemicals that make it Toxic.  There are also Dust/Sand Storms that are Extreme.

With Planet 4 the World or at least a Considerable amount of it, has a Very Good Climate to allow for Various Vegetation to Prosper and Plenty of Water/Lakes.  The Atmosphere is also Habitable for Human Life.  We do see Strong Storms but then certain Places on Earth have Severe Storms/Heavy Rains that DONT effect the Environment.

I would ASSUME that Origae-6 would have to LIE somewhat in-between both Planet 4 and LV-223, it would be NOT as Ideal as Planet 4 but it would not be as Baron as LV-223.

We have to Assume such a World would have remained Similar for Millions of Years, unless we have a Revelation or Explore that the Engineers could Terra-form a World from say a LV-223/LV-426 to a Planet 4 in a Vastly Shorter Span of Time.

So in either case.... MAYBE the Engineers would be aware of it?  We have to ASSUME that Earth-like Worlds are NOT Littered all over the Galaxy to a Great Ratio compared to completely Inhabitable Worlds

So Potentially the Engineers could be Aware of Such a World, and it would be a Prime Candidate for them to Set-Up a Civilization on like they had with Earth.

Does that mean this is what would have Happened?

Who knows.... I think maybe it could, maybe it could not, or if we go in the MIDDLE maybe it was a World being Primed for Future until things went to POT on LV-223.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Sep-24-2019 3:44 PM

"I think we can all agree that it would be nice to see a biomechanical, Lovecraftian nightmare landscape, but I doubt 'they' have the balls to do that."

I think that was the WISH (Fans) for a Prometheus 2, indeed i know it may have been Disappointing to end up with the Aesthetic of Planet 4 and maybe they would have Expected something that would be like  Kryptonopolis (Krypton) from The Man of Steel Movie that has been Re-Designed with a Splash of HR Giger.  Some Concepts for a Early Prometheus Sequel appeared to be a bit similar.

I would think that having Origae-6 being a similar kind of a World would be a LITTLE.. too much a Coincidence, and then if this World is Fully Operational then how does the Covenant Ship even get Close?  Unless the Ship gets Captured by Engineers.

Thats NOT to say such Worlds would Exist and it would be GREAT to go and explore such a World, but maybe it would be too much of a Coincidence if Origae-6 was as such...

But then what a Plot Convenience it could be, and i would not put it past DISNEY exploring such a World as to where to take the Covenant Next, as opposed to Maybe a Primordial World that is Ripe for the Next Stage, or a World that has been RE-SET/WIPED CLEAN and the Process of being LEFT to Clear Up ready for Repopulating. (so it would be like say going to Planet 4 in Thousands of Years Time).

None the Less... as with all of my Topics, everyone is Free to Indulge us to what Ideas they would like to see, as we are Speculating on Events that have NOT Happened or been Explored then Everything is a Option ;)

So indeed we could have this as a World that was Inhabited Many Thousands of Years ago...

But it was ABANDONED... 

I think it could work best if this was the case that the World is really NOT that more Advanced than Earth say 2000-3000 Years ago...  WHY we could have some Clues and Revelation that this is WHERE..... Mankind came from.

Something Happened, and Some Survivors in some Space Noahs Ark of the Engineers were taken and then placed on Earth.....

The Dust has Settled....

There are Ruins of Ancient Cities... LONG LOST... hardly nothing remains... the Discovery of Human like Remains... Skulls, the same Size as Humans... a DNA Match, but some that are TALLER...

What Happened to this Civilization... where did they go, are they all Dead?  What Happened?

These are what the Colonist could ask... but then at the END of the Day, they have left behind a Very Habitable World.  So what ever Happened is Ancient History.

It would be like ONLY discovering the Americas Recently and come across a Native American Civilization that Advanced a bit more than TENTS... but they appear to be LONG GONE... their Culture, Society, Homes... GONE... Thousands of Years ago!

The Explorers who make Landfall and Discover this Lost Civilization would not Care to much, for them they have Inherited a Rich and Fertile LAND!

So the same could be with the Covenant Colonist, they may be Intrigued at the Remnants of  a Long Lost Civilization but they would also just look at HOW they have Inherited a Habitable World to START ANEW!

But maybe HIDDEN away in some Cave, some Place could be a Horror that has been Laying Dormant for  Thousands of Years....

WAITING!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Sep-25-2019 5:59 AM

'Create an army'

I don't know what David would do with a army of xeno/zombies? I doubt he'd be able to terrorize the galaxy with them? the Covenant takes years/decades to travel anywhere! 

And I can't believe they would trope David finding an ancient Engineer city with working spacecraft!?

 

No...It must be to battle the Engineers when/if they arrive?

But why should we care what side wins that battle though?

I'd go with Space marines battling David's legion. At least have a rooting interest?

BigDave

Sep-25-2019 8:30 AM

I think thats a Good Point....

If we have David Create his Army then its not a case of HOW or IF he can Control them, the Main thing is HOW does he get them to Infect the Galaxy...

Unless they can learn to FLY SHIPS?

Then its how do we get to Obtaining such things?

So yes Origae-6 having Juggernaught Hangers would be a Convenient Trope and Coincidence.

IF they are still to have the events of Alien Covenant to connect to ALIEN in a Literal and Chronological Order, then there would have to be a ENGINEER ship that comes into play.

This would LIKELY had been brought into Play from the Engineers heading to Origae-6 after David, rather than the Discovery of Engineer Ships on Origae-6

"At least have a rooting interest?"

Thats a Good Point too, if we look at it from the Engineers POV, then they would want REVENGE, they would want to Prevent David from doing what he could do.

They would surely want to go and Discover WHERE these Intruders had come from and so they surely would want to go to EARTH!

They may also be interested in stopping David too, but would they Place all their Eggs in ONE Basket and send all Ships to Origae-6?

I guess if Origae-6 is a World the Engineers have a Humanoid Civilization on they would want to go there ASP and Prevent the Humans/David from Corrupting or Destroying that Civilization. Then YES they would want to get there to Prevent this.... the same could be said if this is a WORLD they have been Preparing for Seeding and cant allow David to Infect this World...

If there is to be any Connection and Interest from the Engineers...

I feel it would work better if Origae-6 was as Earth was 2000, 5000's Years ago and Imagine if the Engineers had HIT the RESET switch.... then would wait Thousands of Years for the World to be Ready to Start Again.

IF we have Origae-6 as such a World then there could be Evidence of a Previous Long Lost Civilization, and the Engineers would have a Invested Interest in Preventing the Humans and David from Inheriting and Corrupting this World.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Sep-25-2019 9:11 AM

Dr Huang

What a discovery, we have found who must have lived in those ruined buildings, look at the size of them.

Dr Philips

Certainly when Jacob had invested a lot of time on the vetting of this World, we would never had imagined it had been previously inhabited.

Walter

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to

Dr Philips

I never knew you was interested in Religious Quotations Walter, indeed it appears we have found evidence of such Giants.

Walter

This was something Dr Shaw was interested in

Dr Philips

Who?

Dr Huang

She was a fellow Archeologist, she had studied the connection of Archeological Evidence and how it connected to possible Extra Terrestrials being the influence for our Myths and Religions.

I never knew that you had a interest in her work Walter.

Dr Philips

I wonder what this Giant Serpent was.

Walter

We have sinned, because we have spoken against the LORD and you; intercede with the LORD, that He may remove the serpents from us.

Dr Huang

SMILES at Walter

I doubt this was any kind of Punishment

Walter

well the Gods dont take too kindly on rebellion and betrayal

Dr Philips

This other Skeleton seems to have its Rib cage broken, likely from some Internal Trauma

Walter

The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth. They have venom like the venom of a serpent; Like a deaf cobra that stops up its ear,

Dr Phillips

What do you mean by that?

Walter

Maybe their Blood is Tainted, a Poison running inside, born of wickedness and so wickedness shall be born from them.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Sep-25-2019 8:01 PM

The problem of getting a "Lovecraftian" alien movie, in the sense that it's "cosmic horror of the unknown", is that everything about the xenomorph is known to us . . .

Even the plot is difficult to mystify or to make the audience curious: Although intriguing, picking up a distress signal has been done a couple of times, finding ruins of old civilisations many times etc.

If I remember correctly, Scott was afraid that the beast was cooked (although AC could, of course, have been done differently). However, those of us who saw Alien when we were (very) young still love the monster . . . :)

MonsterZero

Sep-26-2019 5:55 AM

Maybe it's not so much Origae-6 (6th planet?) But another planet or a moon they will encounter.

David has the Engineer's charts..Maybe he knows there is plenty of pathogen in the Origae system and no reason to return to LV223. 

 

Alien series has yet to do a 'haunted' space station scenario....Something in orbit around the host star or another planet in the O system?

chli

Sep-26-2019 10:46 AM

MonsterZero

Yes, boarding derelict ships (or stations) floating about in space is exciting. It's been done in a couple of novels, but it's always a thrill. What's happened here? Why are there dead, mutilated bodies here and there, etc?

NTFS

Sep-26-2019 12:26 PM

Several images have been uploaded in the  Traits of the franchise topic that may be inspiration for the flora and fauna of Origae 6. Some of them are repeated here.

Can we imagine the planet as a clean slate for the arriving colonist?

This one is my favorite.

 

 

* Silence Means Security *

NTFS

Sep-26-2019 12:48 PM

This ancient ruin does not even look like a building at first sight.

* Silence Means Security *

BigDave

Sep-26-2019 3:18 PM

Certainly Hox...

I think we have to Assume that Origae-6 is more Habitble than LV-223, it would be like if LV-223 had a Totally Breathble Attmosphere, and Lakes, Rivers and then indeed some Greenery as indicated to a degree in those Photos.

A Place Ripe for Engineer Seeding as the Opening Scene Planet was.

So for the Covenant Colonist they could then arrive at a more Comfortable Climate part of the Planet and then begin to Plant/Seed various Crops, Fruit, Veg and Trees etc.

So maybe it could be a World that the Engineers would have Visited at some point over the next Few Hundred Years to Begin to Seed?

Or indeed a World that had the Slate Wiped Clean and Thousands of Years had Passed where the World is ready to be Repopulated again.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Sep-26-2019 5:18 PM

"The problem of getting a "Lovecraftian" alien movie, in the sense that it's "cosmic horror of the unknown", is that everything about the xenomorph is known to us . . ."

I think this is Exactly the thing they was thinking about when they decided to give us PROMETHEUS... because its ONCE you go and Answer the Xenomorph Origins, then you show the Beast a few more times.... its WHERE NEXT?

IF the Xenomorphs Origins were Explored in a more Lovecraftian way, so we look at it more like it was in STARBEAST, then yes you could go off on a "cosmic horror of the unknown" type Spin Off.

The other was to Explore the Space Jockey connection to it, which had the Potential to go off on a "cosmic horror of the unknown" with Sequels... but with Alien Covenant it looks more unlikely that exploring the Xenomorph or the Engineers will END-UP anything like that Lovecraftian Nightmare.

I think the Beast could be explored in a Sequel that goes to Origae-6 it really depends on HOW they do this.

I already think going for covering the Xenomorph was a MISTAKE for a Sequel to Prometheus, i think to continue with it would likely be just as much a Disappointment as it could be a change to Revitalize the Beast!

Its a Pickle.....

But when we look at what was so Lovecraftian about ALIEN i dont think the Xenomorph Aesthetically has to be the BEE ALL THAT ENDS ALL.....

What i am saying is IF we had ALIENS as the First Movie, i dont think it would be that "cosmic horror of the unknown" not really...

Then if they gave us the Prequel to ALIENS which was ALIEN then when you see where those Eggs came from, and see that Derelict on LV-426 in more Detail, and the Interior of the Ship, the Pilot Room, the Egg chamber then that would get us more closer to Lovecraftian.

I think while HR Gigers Xenomorph is Iconic it has been Cooked quite  a bit.... and by Virtue of the Black Goo you could introduce various other Lovecraftian Horrors.

I think a lot of Fans Lament for Xenomorphs, not all would want a Camerons Queens flick, but i am sure other would like to see something more about the Xenomorphs... but they are really BUGGED by the idea that David Created the Xenomorph!

So i think maybe having Oriage-6 hold a Deadly Secret, well that its not Entirely Uninhabited would be something i think Fans may like...

What if they Encounter a Hostile Organism eventually?

This Organism is then seen to when David Unleashes a Face Hugger on it.... and this Produces a Hybrid that is closer to the Xenomorph from Alien?

So it would indicate that the Xenomorph from ALIEN comes about when Davids Creation is mixed with something else he had NOT created?

I had said before that another OPTION would be that the Engineers Return and see Davids Creation, and they then take it to LV-223 and Re-Engineer it to the Xenomorph we all know from LV-426....  making David only the Middle Man.

I think the CLOSEST we could get to a Lovecraftian Horror now can only really come from..

1) Back to LV-223 and explore other Temples, and get a bit more Information on the Black Goo and the Relevance of the Murals and Frescos.

2) Introduce another Species above the Engineers, that have a more Lovecraftian Theme to them.

I cant see how either would APPLY to this Topic though as far as what would Origae-6 be like and what would likely happen on it.

I will give what i think would have Happened though Next.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Sep-26-2019 5:32 PM

I think that the Intention would be to go to Origae-6 and i think this World would be similar to the Opening Scene in Prometheus or it may be a bit more of Arid Dry World, as far as more like some of the Dryer Places on Earth.... like Middle East, some places in Africa, or Dry Parts of Australia etc.

So its not going to be as Lush and Wonderful as Planet 4 looked, or the Ancient Amazon, or Canada, or say Fertile Green Places in the USA or Europe.

"what kind of a World would David Create"

That was a KEY CLUE.... also it would not had been about Xenomorphs.... it would be about AI... but we have to remember that RS also said he saw the Replicants as AI

David had said he would TUCK IN the Children.. in regards to the Embryo's and so i am drawn to those playing a more Important Role.

David had seemed to do well in Creating something Superior to the Engineers Efforts with the Black Goo, his Xenomorph compared to the Deacon and the Neomorph.

What if he then wanted to see if he can create a Superior Humanoid?   If he would try and APPLY some Traits from his Experiments to them?

I suspect this would be the Case, he Creates a Superior Human Species, he LIES to them about their Origins.. EARTH, and from Human Embryo's

other Humans Turn up, and Revelations are revealed to those Humanoids about their True Origins... things go to POT, they show signs of Rebellion and then David has NO CHOICE but to Unleash his WOLF on his LAMBS and Humans.

His Humanoids + Xenomorph makes a even more Evolved Variant, we are CLOSER to the Xenomorph.

Engineers then ROCK UP.... and they see the Potential in what David had done to those Humans and the Xenomorph and i feel the Engineers would then look to take these to LV-223 where they can then EVOLVE them Further.

I would assume that then we are introduced to some more Advanced Synthetics that are Part Organic and these then become INFECTED and Further Evolve the Beast to we then END UP with the Bio-Mechanical Fiend from the Franchise.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Sep-26-2019 6:12 PM

How did the Covenant get the information about this system? Probes, Space telescope, Space truckers?

 

Kind of cool if they were fed erroneous info ...and the planet is just a rock(Mercury or Venus type)...or not there at all.

 

So I vote Venus type and David has to question MUTHUR and the crew.

BigDave

Sep-26-2019 6:37 PM

Well i have not read the Covenant Origins Novel....

It seems it is a Distant Planet that they have Vetted, and so maybe some kind of Telescope like Detection, that results in a Probe that is Sent out that sends back Readings to Indicate its a Ideal Candidate and then the Covenant Mission is then Commissioned.

I think we can Safely Assume this World would be Perfectly Habitable as in they would NOT need any Space Suits.

But it would be a World that is NOT as Perfect as Earth, but one where over Time the Planting of Vegetation, Trees would make it much more like Home ;)

I would Speculate maybe its mainly some kind of Savannah or Steppes type Location.

I would even consider calling the Human Ship that would be arriving if we went for a Plot set after the Covenants Ill Fated Expedition on Origae-6, i would consider calling the other incoming ship the USCSS Savannah or even the USCSS Magellan

Here is maybe what Origae-6 could look a bit like as the Covenant looks to find a Place to Land.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Sep-27-2019 12:11 AM

Biomechanical

I think there is a problem with the concept of “biomechanical”. There are, at least, two ways to look at this:

  1. It’s just the look of the xenomorph (aesthetics).
  2. The xenomorph is a blend of biology and mechanical parts.

In actual fact, most biological lifeforms contain mechanical parts, e.g. skeleton. On the other hand, “mechanics” can also be a craft where you create “living” things in a lab from chemical and electrical components.

To me, the original alien monster looked pre-eminently biological: drooling jaws, secretion, eggs, procreation (through hosting), instincts etc.

Furthermore, we have robots, synthetics, androids, replicants, cyborgs (some humans are, in fact, a blend of biological and synthetic parts: pacemakers and artificial hearts) etc.

I think we need a clarification of certain key concepts in order to have a meaningful discussion . . . But perhaps in another thread . . . :)

Gavin

Sep-27-2019 8:47 AM

"The problem of getting a "Lovecraftian" alien movie, in the sense that it's "cosmic horror of the unknown", is that everything about the xenomorph is known to us"

...only if we continue to use the tropes established thus far.

As I keep saying, the Alien franchise was built on the back of Aliens, the ideas introduced in Alien have all but been forgotten.

The Alien from the first movie is distinctly different to the Aliens in Aliens and beyond, which opens two possibilities IMO...

1 - There are many different variants of the Alien, and/or

2 - The Alien is uniquely and infinitely adaptable.

If we hold #2 to be true then nothing about the Alien is known to us, only the specimens we have had limited exposure to.

This IMO is where the future of the franchise lies; with revealing that the Alien is not just a eusocial or otherwise bioweapon but something incomprehensible, something truly unknown and unquantifiable, and therefore truly a Lovecraftian terror.

NTFS

Sep-27-2019 12:58 PM

More landscapes

* Silence Means Security *

hox

Sep-27-2019 3:38 PM

@chli, Giger popularised ‘biomechanical art’ in the 1970s, so within the context of Alien I think we know what we’re talking about. His distinctive style throughout Necromonicon depicts creatures that are clearly biological but  have the texture and form of being machined. You could say that something as ordinary as a crab meets the basic requirements of being biomechanical, but Giger’s depictions usually have a lustrous grey metallic sheen that often blends into parts that look machined or carved from ceramic or metal.

MonsterZero

Sep-27-2019 4:50 PM

I'd tease the surface.....beautiful green world.

You're stuck in orbit(David/Daniels and Tee took the cargo hauler and are missing) ...No way to get to the surface. Cargo hauler is beyond repair....You can't 'land' the Covenant. (It's not like the Prometheus spacecraft....where you could land, jump out and go for a stroll.)

You have a thousand humans trapped in orbit.

Probably have to call for help? (Capt. Dallas in the area? )Maybe the Nostromo(with a different crew + Ash)

How frustrating would it be? Your final destination is just out of reach. have to turn back and find the nearest Earth colony? Or hope the space marines arrive within a couple of years.

I wonder how they expected to transfer everyone to the surface of Origae 6? 10 at a time(in the now destroyed lander)? The cargo hauler can hold 4 or 5?

 

BigDave

Sep-27-2019 5:13 PM

Certainly there are Good Points regarding what the Space Jockey/Derelict scene came across as.... It was a Enigma for sure.

It is something that has Evolved over the Years though from the Beginnings that would have been more Lovecraftian to what seems so FAR away from such NOW... (thanks to Alien Covenant).....

If we cast our EYES back to ALIEN then we was left Wondering about the Pilot, the Ship and that Cargo.... and WHAT the Connection was....

Starbeast gave us a Giant Alien Race who just happened to come across this World and Curiosity Killed the Cat as they Entered the Pyramid and attempted to take a Part of the Starbeasts Life-Cycle to Study....

By the time this Developed to Alien there was what must have been a Connection between the Xenomorph, the Ship and the Pilot as they had kind of a Shared Aesthetic.  As now this Giant Alien Being had amassed Thousands of Starbeasts if you would in the Cargo Hold.

For quite some time it was indicated by Ridley Scott that what was being shown was a BIO-WEAPON... it was a bit Ambiguous, as we could argue was it something Discovered that was USED as a Bio-Weapon just as the Weyland-Yutani Company would do IF they had obtained the Organism.

The Prequels had came along to help Solidify that by showing us the Xenomorph was a Engineered Bio-Weapon, and with Spaights work it appeared to indicate it was Re-Engineered from something else they Discovered....   Prometheus made it very Ambiguous only showing us they had the Black Goo that had similar Traits and was used as a Bio-Weapon.

At this point then Gavin as you said, there could be Various Xenomorphs around, but likely as Engineered Variants but thats not to say some could EVOLVE on their own as its a Very Adaptive Organism....

The Black Goo and Evidence of Experiments on LV-223 could also had opened the Door to many Variations..

But we was still NOT shown HOW it connects 100% to the Xenomorph, or from what Origin/Connection the Black Goo would have...

In HINDSIGHT....

They could have gone and introduced a TALLER more Ancient Species that had Attempted to Destroy the Engineers, but Succumbed to one if their Cargo.. some Many Many Thousands of Years ago..

The Engineers then Reverse Engineered their Technology, and had also Re-Engineered and Experimented on the Cargo to Create the Horrors on LV-223

The Engineers could have been Permitted the Technology, they could have had some Created for them and they PERFORMED a Purpose for some other Species before they Rebelled and this Triggered the other Species to Attempt to use the Xenomorph on them...

I think such Revelations would have gone some way to Appease a lot of Fans!

But then we GOT ourselves Alien Covenant.... which has Taken the Enigma and Lovecratian Horror away from the Xenomorph and also the Space Jockey Race too... as far as Engineers...

We can all WISH we could UNDO certain things, or just Choose they NEVER happened.... or Clutch at Straws in the Hope we get a REBOOT or a Sequel that would Clearly show us things that would please Fans....

Maybe its TIME to just MOVE ON?

Accept Things......  and so Accept those Eggs, that Pilot are maybe NEVER going to be what most of us would have wanted!

HOWEVER... all is not LOST!

Because we still have to ask about a ORIGIN.. if the Xenomorph is a Bi-Product of the Black Goo and Various Experiments, i think we can still ask to WHERE did this all come from?

Where did the Derelict/Juggernaught Origins come from?

So we can go back to a ORIGIN that these all Stemmed from another Species that we can Explore in more of a Lovecraftian Way.... a Introduction of the Starbeast Species!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Sep-27-2019 5:26 PM

@chli

Certainly you could consider that we are Bio-Mechanical, we are a Machine, just Organic... this is referenced in the Drafts to Alien Covenant in that the Engineers had attempted to make Good Machines (as in Humans).

In context to the Franchise, when i bring up Bio-Mechanical i mean as in something that has that HR Giger Aesthetic....   SPECIES series also has this Aesthetic.

To me the 1979 Xenomorph looks more like its 70% Organic, and the Rest somewhat Mechanical to a degree.  With Aliens the Xenomorph appeared to me more like 80% Organic, and it gave the impression it was more of a Exo-Skeleton Alien Organism like say Insects, Arachnids and Crustaceans

with the other Movies that Followed the Xenomorph started to appear more and more Organic.

"I wonder how they expected to transfer everyone to the surface of Origae 6? 10 at a time(in the now destroyed lander)? The cargo hauler can hold 4 or 5?"

It seemed the Ship was Modular and so likely the Cabin Compartments could be Separated and taken down with the Loader/Lander.   This would leave us with a Skeleton of the Ship that would Contain the Bridge and Control Section and Propulsion etc.

So indeed without that other Lander, you could Speculate that they would be Stranded...  what we would get then would be a Horror on a Space Ship, which we already saw with Alien and the Last Scenes of Alien Covenant.

Someone had pointed out on here that the Origins Novel indicates the Covenant Ship can Land on a Planets Surface.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Sep-27-2019 10:49 PM

A bit off-topic, but . . . :)

I take it then that when we’re talking “biomechanical” we mean the gigeresque aesthetics (the look) not whether the xenomorph is biomechanical in itself?

If the xenomorph is created, engineered, it could be a mixture of organic and synthetic components but if the creature is a species it would be purely organic, biological (but with a mechanical look).

BigDave

Sep-29-2019 6:57 AM

Certainly that seems a way to look at it, in that if it was a Naturally Occurring Organism it would be Biological, the Queen actually looks much more Biological than any Mechanical/Synthetic Aesthetic.

If we look at the Xenomorph from Alien Covenant then what we see is something that is Mostly Organic Looking, and so IF they continue with the route that this is the Precursor to the Xenomorph in ALIEN then it could look like that something Synthetic has been Engineered into the Process.

Where as the 1979 Beast was based of HR Gigers Design Aesthetic and they should also taken on board how he saw that Shared Aesthetic with the Ships in that they are GROWN and that they are a Amalgamation of Organic and Mechanical Aesthetics and that the SHIPS would Produce the Eggs thus this is WHY the Xenomorph had that Aesthetic.

So it was Truly ALIEN.

But ALAS...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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