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The Crossing

The Crossing

1 Upvotes58 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
Forum Topic

BigDave

Aug-19-2019 3:53 PM

Having made my Previous Topic about  what IF the Engineers were-not Bombarded.

We know Ultimately this Happened, so i want to Discus the Events that Transpired between Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

To discus in Depth about The Crossing but also Events that had Occurred from WHEN we see Dr Shaw collect Davids Head and Body... Right until what Happened after the Bombardment....   Thus the Years Prior to the Covenant Ship intercepting the Signal that Sent them to Planet 4.

There is a Whole 10 Years of Events that we have NOT seen on Screen we only have some Evidence to WHAT had Transpired in Alien Covenant and The Crossing.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

58 Responses to The Crossing

dk

Aug-19-2019 4:31 PM

David said that he learned of their ways while aboard the Juggernaut. "They" may not necessarily be the inhabitants of Planet 4. "They" could have been the LV 223 Engineers. It would then make sense for David's motivation to destroy the inhabitants thinking they were the same as the LV 223 Engineers. Just a thought.

As for the events in between- David must have worked very quickly as he basically experiented on every living thing around to the point of nothing being left. He must have found quite the cache of paper, Sharpies ink and calligraphy pens on Planet 4 by all of his writings and illustrations. He also figured out how to use equipment for a transmission- from the Juggernaut or from Planet 4 tech?  

MonsterZero

Aug-19-2019 5:01 PM

David "..Finally going to meet OUR creator.."

hmm.

 

"He must have found quite the cache of paper, Sharpies ink and calligraphy pens on Planet 4 "

 

Wonder if they were able to loot the lifeboat(LV-223 from the Prometheus) for the supplies? With all the paper books...must have been some other Artifacts?

But to get the supplies(paper/pens/food?)they would have had to return to the lifeboat after the Deacon had vacated?!

BigDave

Aug-19-2019 6:17 PM

Certainly there are a Series of Events if you would with The Crossing itself..... this is Split between the Time that David and Dr Shaw were Together, until when she had been placed in Cryo-sleep and David was ALONE....

We have PRIOR to The Crossing: This is that there is more to when Dr Shaw had Stuffed David's Head in that BAG, too the point they had left for Orbit in a Juggernaut.

We have POST of The Crossing: Which is what happened after the Bombardment, where the Juggernaut had Crashed.  Then the Series of Events that Transpired from here to WHEN our David was Alone again... Waiting....

There is a Whole Lot more that had Happened than we had in other Franchise Movies...... you could have made 1-2 Movies from those Events... but its would they make Movies people would go and SEE?

Certainly Deserves a Long Novel ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-19-2019 6:37 PM

For now i will give my TWO Cents to the Replies, Thanks Guys ;)

It is a Good Point DK about what David had learned of the Engineers ways, it seems he would have Learned Quite a bit while he was on LV-223, the Question is did he learn more on that Juggernaut?  Once he was Back in One Peice and Dr Shaw was out of the way... he could have been FREE to go where ever he wanted..

What Records would the Ship have, that would allow him to Determine that he had Discovered more about the Engineers, would he have Information about Planet 4, or has he only Discovered more about those LV-223 Engineers?  Thats a Good Mystery... would he know those on Planet 4 would be Aggressive and Malevolent?  This could be something he is NOT 100% SURE about and would likely NOT RISK as Discussed in the other Topic. (so Bombs Away).

On other Topics Recently i had discussed about IF the Bombardment had a Radius, Certainly was Surviving Fauna and Engineers for David to Experiment with.. I think its Likely Some Engineers took up Refuge in some place in the City, locked Away... but with Limited Rations and a Un-Safe Environment Outside its likely they would Eventually be Too Weak to Put up a Fight, even when the Environment Outside is back to Normal (minus the Neomorph Spores).  It could also be likely that David had Wondered Off Beyond the City to maybe Locations that was not INFECTED. (For Collecting Fauna and not Engineers).

Davids Notes and Experiments seem Evidence of the above. 

Regarding the Paper Etc... it seems the Engineers would USE such things, its likely that David used Paper and Writing Materials the Engineers have... we could ASK why do they NOT store things Digitally?  It appears most the Technology they seem to Save for their Ships.

But this is what the Amish people (plus some other Cultures) do on Earth, Shun Technology for the Most Part....

Regarding the Transmission it appears it was from the Juggernaut, David must have SET-UP a Holograph Recording (obtained a Part Recorded at some point) to then PLAY in a LOOP and Transmit....

Hopeful ONE-DAY someone would Detect it, we can only Guess when he had SET-UP the Transmission and when most Events happened... before there was NO Dr Shaw and NO Engineers... i would assume MOST of the 10 Years he was ALONE.

It is likely be Coincidence the Neutrino Burst Helped to Amplify the Signal, or at Least so that it was picked up by the Covenant during Repairs... i dont buy some Theories that are on Youtube and other Sites that Ponder if David detected the Covenant then sent the Signal, or Caused the Neutrino Burst

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-19-2019 7:07 PM

@MonsterZero

That is Very Likely.... the Salvage of Equipment ;)

Its UNLIKELY those are Engineer Equipment, its Likely they came from the Prometheus.... either from the Wreckage (Pure Luck) or from the Life-Boat... but there are some Things (For Plot Convenience) that would be UNLIKELY to have came from the Life-Boat (Photo of Dr Shaw and Holloway).

Some may suggest they would-not go to the Life-Boat due to the Deacon... a thing to Remember is Dr Shaw made her SOS on the 1st January 2094, The Prometheus was Destroyed on 26th or 27th December 2093 that makes it 4-5 Days Latter.

Do we assume the Deacon did-not Chest Burst until after Dr Shaw had made the SOS?

The other BIG CLUE is the Image i last Posted...

When we hear Dr Shaw and her SOS, the Buggy is heading from the Temple Complex they Visited in Prometheus, then we see them Head towards the Next One... the Prometheus Wreckage is on the other Side of the First Complex, the Crashed Juggernaut is on the Opposite side of the Complex...

This means after Dr Shaw collects David, she must head towards the Prometheus Wreckage or/and Life-Boat.

IF the Deacon takes 5+ Days to Gestate, then she would NOT know what happens after the Engineer got Attacked, she could go back... Peer into the Room the Day After and see a Dead Engineer and Dead Trilobite and Conclude they are Dead... and then she goes and makes Multiple Journeys to get the Equipment.

Some Stuff could maybe had been Collected from the other Complex or on the Juggernaut.... these could include the Jar that Dr Shaw drinks from, the Robe she is Wearing, and maybe a Supply of Nutrition (Drink) then the Drink could have been from the Life-Boat.

Either way she had enough to get her by at least 6 Months... i can come to WHY Next!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Aug-19-2019 7:49 PM

I would think David found supplies for writing and drawing on Planet 4. It is primitive material and Planet 4 looks like they could have had things like that. Who knows- maybe the writings and drawings are actually penned with the pathogen itself! That would be very......David.

BigDave

Aug-19-2019 8:31 PM

I agree its likely he found the stuff on Planet 4 that he made his Notes with, well likely Most of the Stuff.  It appears he had some way of making the Portrait of Dr Shaw before though ;)  But i agree its likely the rest was used by the Engineers.

They had said that the Cathedral was used like a Library of all the Engineers Knowledge, we dont seem to see any Digital Storage/Computers... likely they did most of their Notes using Basic Methods, of Paper and a Writing Device like Charcoal etc.

Onto another CLUE...

Some had Speculated the Juggernaut took about a Year to get to Planet 4 and also that Dr Shaw and David pretty much Left quite soon after leaving LV-223.

From Dr Shaws Hair Growth it seems ONCE they had Salvaged Supplies they Managed to get the Ship into Space, then we have a Game of Cat/Mouse where David would want to be put back together and Dr Shaw being reluctant.... as RS said "she will slowly put him back together"

Looking at her Hair Growth its likely they was Floating in Space for at least 10 Months before she FINALLY decided to put him back together.

I would assume the Juggernaut would only take Days to get to Planet 4, Weeks Tops... David would likely not be HONEST because if he can FOOL her that she would need to be in Cryo-sleep (likely Nutritional Supplies had GONE/LOW, hence ONE Reason she may have decided to put him back together).  Then David would be Completely Free to do what ever he wants UNTIL he decides to Awaken Her.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Aug-19-2019 9:50 PM

Yeah, David’s home on Planet 4 has at least one room that is purpose built to hold paper records in the form of scrolls. Ergo, there would be writing materials available. Even if there weren’t, there is plenty of timber around to make wood pulp, and we know David goes fishing in the lakes where, very likely, you’d find creatures with ink sacs such as Cephalopods. He’s smart. He could rustle up the materials in a short time, but probably doesn’t need to.

Since we see Dr. Shaw at the controls of the spaceship, it’s likely that it was she who initiated the recording of Country Roads. Either as an experiment or perhaps as an announcement to the inhabitants of Planet 4 prior to their arrival.

It is ambiguous when and how she made her ‘last survivor’ recording. It was an editing trick to play the sound both while she was driving her buggy and flying away from the planet. My guess is that the lifeboat had a perfectly capable transmitter, and that’s where it came from.

We don’t have evidence that she went into cryo-sleep for the duration of the relatively short journey from LV-223. Why would she? It must have taken a lot of time and effort to put David back together, and there would be plenty of marvels on the spaceship to learn about. She’s a scientist. She’d want to know everything about the ship.

BigDave

Aug-20-2019 8:49 AM

Certainly when discussing on here before about the SOS i felt it was Very Unlikely it was sent from the Juggernaut, it was Unlikely the Buggy had a Coms System as such to Transmit it from, so indeed the SOS was likely Transmitted prior to that Last Shot from Prometheus (prior to Deacon Ending) and so the Life-Boat must have been where it was Recorded and Sent from ;)

I would say the Country Roads was a Automated Engineer Recording of them as they was about to Depart from the Vicinity in Space they was Floating in, we see that David suggests he does-not know how long it would take and then he tucks Dr Shaw into the Engineer Cryo-Pod....

I would assume after the events on Planet 4 and after Dr Shaw had Died, then at some point David would likely had gone through the Juggernaut Recordings and Found a Suitable Recording to Send on a LOOP as a Bait to draw a Human Ship in, should one come close to the System. (Close enough to Detect the Message).

It would be interesting to wonder what they had talked about while David was in TWO Parts.... NOT a lot to do on the Ship for Many Months.... so she would likely had wanted to get to know the Systems...

She would likely ASK how the Systems are Operated and its a case of how much had David told her, and WHAT she could or COULD-NOT have accessed...

I would assume the STAR-CHART Map was a Human Construction, why would the Engineers use this if they have the SHIPS Built in Navigation/Map... but then WHY would Dr Shaw not ask David to Activate that Map!

So its likely David was either Uncooperative at Times or he was Withholding what he Knows and can do with the Ship.

We have to Wonder how much Dr Shaw had Accessed and Gained from the Ship.... did she also learn the Engineers Ways?  Or is this a Indication this was what David had learned after Dr Shaw was in Cryo-sleep?  Seems likely.... so Dr Shaw could not learn this from the Juggernaut or maybe David had Learned their Ways from Somewhere Else?

so i would suspect that David had made attempts to Withhold stuff from Dr Shaw, and to try and get her into Cryo-sleep as soon as he could so that he is FREE to then Study and do whatever he wants..

I would assume Dr Shaw was not awake when the Ship had arrived at Planet 4, and he likely would have Awoken her at some point and then Broke the News to her... likely Claiming it was a Accident... or the Engineers Reacted Hostile and he had NO CHOICE...

I would assume he would suggest that he could maybe get her Answers from the Engineers City if they keep Records etc.... and i would also assume he would inform Dr Shaw the Area is Contaminated Outside... so that he could keep her Confined to the Juggernaught, while he was FREE to go around and Conduct his Business and Experiments.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-20-2019 9:19 AM

I will add that if we Assume (which seems Likely) that January 1st 2094 was when they had left LV-223 (then we see they are stranded in Space while Dr Shaw is Reluctant to Repair David).   Then what we have is the Date the Covenant Ship encounters Damage from the Neutrino Burst was on 5th December 2104 (Date the Crew are awoken).

This means that 10 Years, 11 Months and 4/5 Days had past since Dr Shaw had Sent her SOS in Prometheus until when the Covenant Crew Detect her other Distress Call from Planet 4.

The Novel indicated how many Days David had been on Planet 4.... 3800 or so it was about 10 Years, 5 Months ... (if we take it as Canon) so Considering the Hair Growth of Dr Shaw... its likely the Journey Time to Planet 4 would have Happened within Days (if take Davids Markings of the Days Stranded from the Novel as Canon) or say within up to 2-4 Weeks if we go by Dr Shaw's Hair Growth Alone.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Aug-20-2019 9:47 AM

@Myself, apologies, I hadn't seen the official short video. It's clear that Dr. Shaw was definitely put into cryo-sleep.

MonsterZero

Aug-20-2019 4:36 PM

"then we see they are stranded in Space while Dr Shaw is Reluctant to Repair David"

 

Wha..? I can't believe Shaw was able to get the Juggernaut off LV-223(and into space!)without David in the Jockey chair?

She must have repaired him on LV-223 ?!

Did Shaw sit in the Space Jockey chair while David instructed her?

Why fix David indeed!

 

MonsterZero

Aug-20-2019 5:00 PM

Who knows? Maybe Shaw and David visited multiple planets before Planet 4? David could've learned about the Engineers from these visits.

I can see many movies with Shaw and David exploring ancient Engineer tombs...derelict space stations.....abandoned cities.

Might add a week(per visit) to their journey..but so what? No time schedule...Covenant was able to change course, visit Planet 4, then resume the trip to Origae.

 

So it took 6 months to reach Planet 4? ? Did David lie about the time he spent on P4? Or is he just confused?

Not knowing the speed of the Juggernaut. they could have visited dozens of locations.

I for one, would love to see Shaw and David explore a haunted Engineers space station...

 

 

 

dk

Aug-20-2019 8:25 PM

Did Shaw sit in the Space Jockey chair while David instructed her?

That was my impression watching the movie. Also, they were already in space when she was reconnecting his head according to The Crossing. That's how it seemed after seeing in real time for the first time before picking it apart.

However, it is possible she repaired David before leaving LV 223. If we listen to the narrative and watch what is happening, she looks out a window into bright light (daylight on LV 223?) and it is AFTER she connects his head that he states that they were able to activate the ship. 

If the latter is the case, it seems David should have been sitting in the pilot chair navigating the ship? 

Either case seems plausible.

chli

Aug-21-2019 11:54 AM

I think it’s impossible to say whether Dr Shaw put David together before or after leaving LV-223 (Although I find it unlikely that David would show her how to drive the ship if she doesn’t attach his head. That’s what he can bargain with). Shaw’s hair length can be just a flaw (Shaw made the scene sometime after Prometheus). The journey to Planet 4 could, therefore, have taken days, months or even a year.

David is the narrator in “The Crossing” just as he is the narrator in “Advent”. He seems to be telling the truth even when it comes to horrific details: genocide and the gruesome murder of Shaw.

In “The Crossing”, David says that it’s impossible to know how far it is to the Engineer Homeworld. Shaw is therefore put into hypersleep, and David is alone again. He wanders the empty halls in the juggernaut and learns of their ways.

When they arrive, he unleashes the pathogen.

In the novelization of Alien: Covenant, Shaw was alive for quite sometime after the juggernaut crashed. Why did it crash, by the way, since the Engineers were dead? Why wasn’t Shaw infected by the pathogen? The juggernaut wasn’t quarantined. It was open to the contaminated environment of Planet 4.

Nevertheless, they seem to have spent quite some time in the crashed juggernaut. Shaw had made a little home for herself in a part of the ship and there was handmade furniture and bound paper which they must have made themselves (the trees in the forest). By the way, they also found her crucifix.

But for how long did they stay in the juggernaut? Were Shaw killed there (since she left her crucifix)?

MonsterZero

Aug-21-2019 4:15 PM

When did Shaw die in the novel? Does it say or even hint at?

 

"they seem to have spent quite some time in the crashed juggernaut"

Wonder if she lived for years on Planet 4.

Can't imagine spending more than an hour with David!

 

 

dk

Aug-21-2019 4:17 PM

Regarding hair length. Shaw's hair growth suggested a long time had passed before reaching Planet 4. But David's hair length seemed the same from the time they left LV-223 to when he arrived at Planet 4. Then he looked like Curt Cobain after a decade. Pretty sure that was an oversight, but I had to pick it apart anyway lol!

BigDave

Aug-21-2019 4:31 PM

@DK

Indeed that could be a Option... a Window/Port Hole of sorts, However if so it could be SHE is looking out to Space and the Light Source is from a Star (Sun) or other Near by Space Body that would Reflect Light (Calpamos).

I made the Image above to look at WHERE could such Port Holes/Windows be Located and maybe it would be around the Center and Top of the Juggernaut, and so Circling around the Central Glass Roof above the Pilot/Orrery Room.

The above Image is to show that the Corridors where the Space Jockey Suits are, and other Corridors that Connect to the Pilot/Orrery Room have their OWN source of Light.

It is likely they have some kind of LIGHTING, this does-not however mean that where Dr Shaw was looking at is NOT a kind of Window/Port, but its a Possibility.

It would be odd WHY she would be Staring at a Light, maybe because it the only Source of Light to Comfort her, but looking into such Lights would NOT be Good for your Eyes...

So its likely a Window/Port, but then we have to ask WHY is she looking out of it... the ANGLE of the Window/Port if it is along the Top of the Juggernaut (surrounding the Glass Dome Section at the Top of the Pilot/Orrery Room)  would not give her NOTHING to be looking at apart from the Clouds, the Sun (if its a Clear Day) or the Stars at Night!

So i would Suspect that she is looking into SPACE while the Ship has left LV-223, this would FIT well if she is Staring out to the Stars and Wondering about the Engineers Home-World.  But thats just a assumption/speculation.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Aug-21-2019 4:39 PM

That's a mighty bright sun to completely fill the window like that- but it could be. I also notice she was wearing an Engineer cloak then and the next clip she was in uniform without the cloak- probably how the short was made and they didn't figure we would scrutinize so much.

BigDave

Aug-21-2019 4:43 PM

To Continue.....

If we assume my hunch is Correct, then it means she had Repaired David while in Space....   so HOW did they leave LV-223?

Maybe David can Function of Sorts while NOT attached to his Body, and so he can operate his Body via a detached Head and this was enough to get them into Space...  Maybe David then Refused to take them to the Engineers Home World... unless she put him back together, which may have taken her 6-12 Months before she decided to do so.

If my assumption is WRONG... and so she Repaired David while they was on the LV-223, well we then have to ASK how could her Hair had Grown that long in 4-5 Days?

The Counter Argument would be that the Events are not Chronologically Directly after Each Other.... so she makes the SOS Message..... the Next Shot of the Juggernaut happens Months Latter...

Then the Deacon Chest Buster had happened IN-BETWEEN!

But then you would have to Consider that Dr Shaw has been on LV-223 for Months while a Deacon is Roaming around on LV-223?

So i would think its Likely (but not 100%) that she had got David to be able to Leave LV-223 while he was in TWO Parts, and then when he had Performed that side of the Bargain he REFUSED to take her to PARADISE unless she Repaired him, which took her a WHILE before she agreed.

I would also think she would NOT have a lot of Knowledge on how to FLY and Operate the Ship, because then WHY would she need to REPAIR him?

The only Logical Way if she could Operate the Ship would be that she would need him as HER... Translator!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Aug-21-2019 5:02 PM

I saw no evidence his body could function detached from the head. I could imagine his head on the floor saying "To the right of the musical squishy buttons is a switch that powers up the engine. Flick it to the right." Then she flicks it to the right quickly. Then he says "But first turn the dial next to it hard left." Oops.

BigDave

Aug-21-2019 5:21 PM

@DK

Yeah thats a Good Point with David... it was to indicate he had been Marooned on LV-223 for a Long Time... he had Dyed his Roots in Prometheus so his Hair does Grow... we can maybe just look at Dr Shaw had up to a Year to Grow hers, while David had over 10 years so his Grows Slower.....

It is likely just a Oversight... its likely Noomi was not invited to play a Part, but then Called in after Shooting Began to do a Few Scenes, in-between or during Time she was Shooting/Due to Shoot other Projects and so she SIMPLY could not Cut her Hair Short!

Regarding Dr Shaw and her FATE!

Firstly it think we have to accept its David who would put his OWN ambition and agenda First.... he would do what ever is needed to get what he wants, that includes LIE!

Then i think we have to NOT 100% take the Novel as our 100% Source, because things had Changed, in the Movie we have David's Workshop and Notes and so we have to take them into Account.

It is Highly Likely as in Certain that Dr Shaw had NOT Perished in the Crash....

The Bombardment could NOT have Destroyed All Life.. some Engineers Survived, some Fauna had too.. It is likely the Bombardment had a Radius of Effect, it was also Likely it was Activated/Programed in a way that the Pathogen would only Last a Short Time... enough to Replicate inside and Spread from Engineer to Engineer, but then after a Period of Time, it Turned all Genetic Material into a Solid Matter...

Any Engineers who managed to Find Refuge would NOT have been prepared and would likely know the Environment could be Contaminated for a Certain Period of Time?   How Long?  we dont know.. it appears the Pathogen after a Period of Time had Solidified those Engineers, but who knows if this was a Programed Effect?

Do the Engineers know how long a Infected Environment would remain UNSAFE?

David had Experimented on Engineers, Male, Female and Infants their Bodies appeared to NOT be Infected... How does he Overpower them.... likely they are Weak and Emaciated because they have Barricaded themselves away in a Safe Place where ONCE their Supply of Food and Water Runs Low/Out then they are EASY Pickings...

So regarding Dr Shaw... its likely the Environment was NOT SAFE and so David had informed Dr Shaw... we can Assume the Ship was Safe though, and so Dr Shaw was Confined to the Ship.... 

Even when the Environment was SAFE... its likely David had LIED about it, so he was FREE to do what ever he wanted...  i would say that Dr Shaw had a LOT of TRUST with David, they had Built a Mutual Respect and Trusting Relationship (so she thought).

We need to then look at HOW would David keep her ALIVE?  She maybe RAN low on Nutrition on the Ship, this would be a GOOD reason to go into Cryo-sleep and also a Bartering Tool for David... giving her Little Choice..

so we could Speculate any Food/Drink she had could be LOW if there was any Left, and Eventually David would go and get her Food/Drink and then Dr Shaw could START to Wonder....    WHERE did he get it from?  HOW-COME it is Not Infected?

So she could get SUSPICIOUS... especially if he still says its NOT Safe!

Maybe ONE DAY she grew too Suspicious and had a Wander out of the Ship and realized she did-not become Infected? then she Confronts David and maybe thats when THINGS become Sour?

Maybe she went to the City and Walked in on David and the Torture/Experiments on the Engineers, if he TOLD her they was all Dead, and she Discovered they were NOT then RIGHT there is the END of that Relationship... she would NOT react well..

BUT.... how could she Survive on the Ship, or more so have any Chance of Walking Outside and NOT be infected by the Neomorph Spores?

Likely for the Same Reason that ONLY TWO of the Covenant Crew became Infected... the Spores needed to be Physically Disturbed..

Also the Spores could have came a while after the Crash, and after Dr Shaw discovered David was lying!

David maybe went back/forth to the Ship for more Black Goo, and at some Point a Urn had got Knocked Over and its Contents poured into the Area of the Cargo/Deployment Hold (Area Covenant Crew walk through) this Pathogen then Infects Fungi that is Growing from where Algae and Water have Gathered, and the Pathogen travels down the Water Stream that is UNDER the Juggernaut and then it also Infects more Fungi down Stream!

Thats just Logically how i Piece things together... thats NOT to say this is what Happened.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Aug-21-2019 11:38 PM

If I were interested in sterilising a planet, I too would want to create a short-lived pathogen. But those pods that puff out the infection last for decades at least. How long would they remain dormant and viable, do you think? Were those pods engineered by David, or did he just draw pretty pictures of them?

ignorantGuy

Aug-22-2019 1:18 AM

BigDave I know that you don't like Shaw, but her death was required by the studios (we know this) and it was not something inevitable, so stop making excuses for corporate decisions.

Why would a robot be clumsy and knock things over? You know he was an expert piano player from second 0.

@hox If David would have made the pods why plant them at random locations in the wilds? So the idiot army guys could spread out and sniff it? Or to infect whom or what if all life is eradicated? Yet if the planet has monthly long rains how come the goo was not washed away before forming pods?

 

dk

Aug-22-2019 1:23 AM

 It is likely the Bombardment had a Radius of Effect, it was also Likely it was Activated/Programed in a way that the Pathogen would only Last a Short Time... enough to Replicate inside and Spread from Engineer to Engineer, but then after a Period of Time, it Turnedall Genetic Material into a Solid Matter...

@BD- That is an interesting point. Everyone seemed to walk among the bombarded area unharmed. Maybe the pathogen becomes inert over time. The problem with that though is that it is still active in plants- spores that can still invade a host when stepped on. The spores proved deadly when inhaled or found their way into someone's ear canal. 

hox It seems the pathogen would remain with the plants. The planet would never be safe for any humanoids to occupy long term.

hox

Aug-22-2019 4:57 AM

@dk It's evident that the pods remain infectious and deadly to fauna for a long time. Perhaps even forever, as you suggest. That's indeed contrary to the notion of creating a short-acting sterilising agent.

Would the Engineers really be that mean? To render a world uninhabitable for eternity? I doubt it.

I suppose one way round that conundrum might be:

1. Engineers typically sterilise a planet with the devastating pathogen. Unlike gardeners, who apply weed killer several times during a growing season, they just let the pathogen do its dirty work over time until every last scrap of fauna is destroyed.

2. After a few years or decades, Engineers return and drop an antidote to neutralise the pathogen and all its progeny.

Actually, I think option 2 would be a nice one to follow up in a movie. Set on some other devastated world.

ignorantGuy

Aug-22-2019 5:19 AM

hox If they have an antidote why not use it in the LV-223 incident?

BigDave

Aug-22-2019 5:32 AM

@Ignorantguy

On the Contrary i do like Noomi Rapace, i do think her Character in Prometheus was Niave, but thats how she is supposed to had been, i think its a DIRE Shame they never got to Continue with her, even IF her FATE would have been similar, she Deserved much more Screen Time.  Their was so much that could have affected her Character Arc and gave Noomi something better to work with.

Ultimately indeed it was a Corporate Necessity and Creative Decision, some Earlier Drafts were supposed to have her Alive and she helped the other Humans that David had engaged with who arrived to a Lost Paradise, so they could have had her Alive and Discovered and Rescued and she Sacrificed herself to save them... i think the Path they took as FAR as to NOT include her was a Error.  But there is ONLY so many Plots/Scenes you can Cram in a Movie and Alien Covenant had Clearly tried to FIT too much in as it was.

With the Topic i was just pointing out that Potentially there is another 1-2 Movies worth of Events that Transpired (During the First 5 years after Prometheus), that likely would-not have made a Movie that would Engage Fans... but Certainly i think it Warrants a Novel ;)

Indeed we could ask HOW it is David would knock over a JAR/URN, maybe he was Chasing Dr Shaw, or in a Rush to do with her and so he was Preoccupied/Distracted but then you could Argue a Robot would be able to Multi-Task.   It could have been knocked over by Dr Shaw trying to Escape.

Or as i also suggested it could have happened during the Crash, the Reason she was NOT infected is the same as WHY the other Covenant Crew had NOT been....

Ultimately there are a Number of Things that those working and writing on the Project dont give No Answers for, or even maybe HAD any.... maybe some things we are NOT expected to Wonder about or TRY and come up with a Answer...... this is all thanks to not giving us Spoon Feeding on every Detail.... which i think is a Good Thing ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-22-2019 5:53 AM

@hox

Thats a Good Point to Consider, Indeed having a Pathogen with Limited Time of Infection would be Ideal as a World Cleansing Tool, having a Bio-Weapon that can be Programed to Target Molecules and Effect them in Different ways, which could be to Solidfy/Calcify them....

So when it comes down to the SPORES this is something thats interesting, i would SPECULATE that these are the Results of a Urn (or few) that had been Knocked Over after the Crash and Poured their Contents out that was Washed Away by the Leaking Water on the Ship, likely from Rain and also being on a Stream running down the Mountain.... this Pathogen likely Infecting some Mold/Fungi and Mutating it into a Hybrid Fungi that passes on Neomorph Spores.   Could these URNS had been Knocked Over/Leaked at the Time of the Crash or after... we can only Speculate.

Other than that, it could have been from the Bombardment, but then we have to ASK... why do we NOT seem to see any Signs of Life, Locally no other Mutated Organisms... was there some? did they Die Off...

How come we only saw  the Neomorph Spores as the only Existing Parasitic result of the Bombardment (maybe there are more Horrors we simply missed).  We only see the Spores near Mold/Moss and Water Sources, so Damp/Wet Environments, while the Juggernaut has Water Running Under it and down the Mountain, which likely also Runs to the Stream (Ledwood Infection).  This does-not mean it was from Leaked URNS on the Ship....  it could have been from the Bombardment, and if so there may be more Spores all over Planet 4 that we had not been shown..

So there could have been other Infected Life-forms, the Movie simply having No Time to show us every Inch of that Local Area around the City....

David maybe giving us a HINT this could be True, when he says the Pathogen would either KILL out right or Create Hybrid Forms....   But it appears it Reacted in a Different way to the Engineers (killed) than we saw it react with Holloway, Fifield and Hammerpedes but this could be to do with HOW the Weapon was Activated and Amount of Pathogen Exposed to.

Large Amounts = Death either Cellular Break-Down or Cellular Calcification

Small Doses = Mutation to various Degrees depending on Amount of Pathogen and type of Contact.

So the Neomorph Spores could had been from Smaller Particles of the Bombardment that had Blown away from the Area and Infected Fungi/Mold.

We can only Speculate.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-22-2019 6:10 AM

Regarding the Engineers Bio-Weapon, and a Antidote...

When i had First Seen the Scenes of those Engineers, like STONE and saw the Device on top of the Cathedral Dome (these were from Shots, Clips prior to the Movies Release).  I had Wondered and Discussed on here IF those Engineers became like that from some kind of SAFETY Device... that was Activated and would within a Radius then Destroy/Solidify all Organic Matter (apart from Plants) within a Certain Area to Nullify the Spread of the Pathogen, to Disable it.. 

Seemed Plausible to me at the Time... a Ideal Protection Mechanism..

This was UNTIL i saw the Movie and more so, we saw Davids Drawings... that indicated some Engineers must have Survived... IF those other Engineers became as Stone from a Protective Weapon used to HALT the Pathogen by Destroying all Organic Matter (not plants though) and thus would STOP the Pathogen...

Then WHY did those Engineers Fall Prey to David, if their Safety Device had CLEANSED the Area... at some point they could have then Wondered Outside..

It was likely he had his WAY with them as they was Held Up some place, with limited Food/Water to WAIT out the Contamination and had became Emaciated and Ripe for the Pickings...  Thus making the Speculation of a Engineer Safety Device.... MUTE!

You would think they would have some Antidote.... as using the Black Goo to Clean Worlds is NOT exactly ideal its a bit OVER-KILL.  Especially if it can leave behind Parasitic Organisms..... that are Deadly and would be a Hindrance to repopulating the World with LIFE.. unless you dont mind having LIFE that has the Neomorph/Deacon like Traits/DNA.

As Ignorantguy pointed out.... WHY dont they use a Antidote on LV-223, which is a Good Point... but then also we have to ask WHY did they NOT go back to LV-223...  Was Every Complex Contaminated?

If the Prometheus Crew had-not removed their Helmets, if they had NOT taken/touched any of the Urns and IF they had NOT had awoken the Engineer, they would likely had Survived!

So the Pathogen likely is Inert in Certain Environments, and any Outbreak has a Certain Half-Life so to speak.

Ridley Scott had suggested (i think it was via him, could have been the Novel?) that the Pathogen took 4 Days to Eradicate Life on Planet 4 (i think it was the NOVEL, but we see that is NOT the case in the Movie). 

But RS had claimed that ONCE they had Cleansed a World it would take Hundreds of Years (500 i think) before its SAFE to go back and Start Again!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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