Hi guys, don't kill the Messenger.
Here's a link of a very interesting recent video made by @Kroft.
It's like an 'alien franchise continuity diary' about all that has been recently told on social media.
Kroft mixes news with his own theories for the plot of alien Covenant's sequel 'Alien Awakening'.
Although this is mentioned in the OP, the problem with Krofts' video (and most of his videos TBH) is that it is a mixture of all news and rumors together with his own speculations and theories.
Which in all honesty I find perplexing that certain other Alien: Awakening commentators are not attacking Kroft's videos of which could be misleading to some fans, but yet our community here is repeatedly attacked with spreading "fake news" for posting clearly titled rumors or speculative articles.
When it comes to Alien: Awakening the truth is we know very little. We know Ridley wants to and is positioning himself to bring the final movie in his prequel trilogy, but beyond that, we know nothing. Previous mentions of the movie's narrative (David vs Engineers) were shot down by Fox CEO Stacey Snider, and the TV serial was shot down by Emma Watts.
Meanwhile, whether Scott sticks to his guns like he should have done after Prometheus or whether he, again, buckles to the opinions of the producers, studios and social media remains to be seen.
Gavin And how would RS cave in to the "fans"? Many cry that the characters are stupid, but that started with Kane. Some claim that David did not kill the Engineers but another species. The same goes for the Xenomorph. And the highly likely reveal that David is the space jockey did not seem to generate much enthusiasms whenever it pops up. All bets were put on Fassbender, and he was in flops pretty much since 2016. And let's not forget that Shaw's ghost still haunts the whole endeavor (with quite some people say the were willing to put up with other things if they included her). And there also is cancel Alien 5.
What if RS's vision is already known to lead to more anger? He sure needs to do some heavy convincing, but I don't know if this series can generate more than 250 mil at the box office.
PS. Let Ripley and everything related to her to comic books and comics.
I think it depends on HOW we interpret what Ridley Scott has said.
He had suggested that the Engineers will Return but then he gives NO indication of which Engineers this would be apart from that the Engineers will Return to Planet 4 and see the Destruction that has been left behind and these Engineers will then want to find the culprit.
We maybe have to Consider a few of the Comments he has made over the years about the Engineers.
*We cant 100% take the Elder Scene as Canon, there could be Elder Engineers but when revealed we maybe should not expect them to look the same as in the Deleted Scenes.
*Ridley Scott had said he DID-NOT want to meet God in the First Movie, this was in context to the deletion of the Elder Scene. Therefor indicating the Prometheus Engineers (not inc Elders) are NOT the Gods and there is a Hierarchy or Separate Species above those Engineers.
*Ridley Scott referred to those LV-223 Engineers as Fallen Angels, this implies there are either Multiple Factions, or at least those LV-223 Engineers had done something against the wishes/knowledge of their Hierarchy or Creators.
*Ridley Scott had suggested those Planet 4 Engineers are the ORIGINALS which implies the Prometheus Engineers came after and are thus a Sub-Creation, or a Augmented/Enhanced Version.
*When talking about the Hall of Heads from Alien Covenant he had said that those beings where the Apostles, Wise Men and Superior Beings. This infers they are the Ancient For-bearers of the Engineers Society and Rituals/Religion who were Tasked with Spreading the Ways of their Kind.
Superior Beings is the Important One to Consider... Superior to Humans? LV-223 Engineers? Planet 4 Engineers?
*Chris Seagers referred to the Hall of Heads as the Hierarchy of the Engineers, so these guys are IN-CHARGE.
*When talking about Alien Paradise Lost, Ridley Scott had said you have ONE being who is Attractive and Goes to all the Parties and gets all the Girls, while One Being who is not so Attractive stays at home being Boring. What can we make of this? Could this be reference to the Planet 4 vs LV-223 Engineers?
He continues by saying he FELT the Fallen Angels are the ones who had the Best Time as far as Paradise Lost Goes... this could mean the LV-223 Engineers.
*He also talks about IF the Engineers are the Forerunners of Mankind then WHO made it possible for Worlds to be able to Support Life in the First Place, where is the BIG GUY.... he also mentioned that maybe the BIG BANG was no Accident.
This implies a Order/Hierarchy above the Engineers.
*Ridley Scott suggests that just because Mankind has many Races/Creeds then WHY cant the same be said for the Engineers.. He goes further to call the Engineers a Civilization and not a RACE!
So maybe we have to Consider these comments?
I have not Watched the OP Video.... i know Many Fans were NOT pleased about the Engineers in Prometheus and how they are NOT the Scale of the Space Jockey but they was intended to be 12-15ft Tall.
Fans seem even further annoyed that our Planet 4 Engineers are even less a Enigma and Owe Inspiring as the Space Jockey and would NOT accept that these beings can Predate the Prometheus Engineers.
While it could be open to Introduce another Species, i think it may be Wishful thinking for them to NOT look Humanoid.
RS had indicated the Engineers Return and will NOT be happy, the Question is WHICH Engineers?
*More Planet 4 Kind?
*More LV-223 Kind?
*Maybe the Elders/Cast related to the Hall of Heads Hierarchy?
Its a case of maybe we will NEVER Find out, and that any Sequel would introduce the LV-223 Kind back.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
It was an interesting video but I will wait for something official from the Mouse's mouth.
Having Watched the Video it appears that Kroft is looking more at what John Logan had apparently said and the Variety Interview and then taking a look at HOW Technologically Advanced the Prometheus Engineers were compared to the Planet 4 and making the assumption those Engineers are NOT as Ancient or Advanced, and then looking at the Size Difference of the Prometheus Engineers and Space Jockey and ASSUMING this means the INCOMING Engineers would have to be DIFFERENT because of the Difference in Space Jockey and Derelict compared to Engineers and Juggernaught.
This was likely a Oversight as the Engineers were intended to be 12-15ft Tall... Kroft also links a part of a Draft that has not been Officially Confirmed and is likely a Fan-Edit (same one that suggests the Black Goo is Deacons Blood the Engineers Worship as a Godlike Figure).
There seems to be a lot of this kind of thinking with a base of Alien Fans who seem to think the Franchise should Center around the Xenomorph... When Prometheus and the Engineers was to expand beyond this and the Engineers are not SOLELY committed to just Procreating Xenomorphs.
However... FAN PRESSURE can have a Big Impact on a Story, as we have seen with Alien Covenant (Originally RS wanted to Steer Away from the Xenomorph and its Origins).
It looked likely that Engineers would be appearing and we certainly could be seeing at least ONE kind of them.. maybe more by Virtue of RS saying there would be 3/4 Incoming Parties which means that TWO of those 4 are Connected... this could mean TWO incoming Human Parties rather than TWO incoming Engineer ones.
I think the Engineers are open to Interpretation due to the Ambiguity, and how certain things can be Interpreted.
Many still think Planet 4 is NOT Paradise and those are NOT our Engineers on that Planet. I think it comes down to HOW you interpret Paradise.
I also think Davids ARC and Bladerunner holds more Clues to the History of the Engineer Races.
David is more Advanced than Humans, Imagine if David could upload his Agenda to every Synthetic, and use all the Engineers Technology.... does this mean that David Predates us? NO!
So Krofts assumption those Planet 4 Engineers cant use Engineer Technology are must NOT be the Original Engineers is a little Flawed... but its something that can be Speculated.... but RS had confirmed those beings are the ORIGINALS and thus this opens up the possibility that a Synthetic/Bladerunner like PLOT has been something that has happened to the Engineers too.
Prometheus Engineers being equivalent of David to those Planet 4 Engineers.
It is possible the Space Jockey could even be revealed as ONE of Davids Übermensch Creations.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Engineers are not ONLY creators of life, but also creators of civilizations. We don't know how many lifeforms and civilizations were created by the 'gardners of life'. We don't know how many subspecies of engineers exist, scattered in the universe. Creators start to experiment on themselves.
Let's have hope...
It looks like there is reason for hope setaverde. Thank you for sharing.
And, by the way, the hanging lamps cited by Kroft were not Engineer tech but bioluminescencent creatures harvested by David on Planet 4.
It is so great the sequel news made it to cafemom.com.
Absolutely setaverde this is the Potential that the Prometheus Space Gardeners Plot had laid the Foundations for.
Prior to Prometheus we was left with a few Questions.
*Where did the Xenomorph come from?
*Why did the Space Jockey have those Eggs?
*When/How did the Derelict End Up on LV-426?
Once you answer those... its then these that matter more.... Unless you want to IGNORE the Space Jockey and just pump out Xenomorph Movies.
*IF they discovered the Eggs and attempted to Study them then to WHAT END? or had they only just came across them before the Miss-Hap!
*IF they had Engineered those Eggs then where from and for WHAT END?
Once these are Answered.... then you are left with.
What Conflict/Reason would they want those Eggs?
Once you have Fleshed that out.... you then have.
*SO what ELSE is there about the Space Jockey, History and Agenda aside from WHY they would be attempting to HAUL that Deadly Cargo!
THIS ^^^ is what Prometheus had attempted to do as far as the Introduction of the Creators/Gods Plot.
And so INDEED... its unlikely that EARTH was the ONLY World they had Seeded, and Visited, its unlikely that Planet 4 and LV-223 are the ONLY other places the Engineers have been too and can be found.
Remember their Navigation Systems Feature other GALAXIES and so the Area of Our GALAXY explored in the Franchise (Spanned 40 LY) is a DROP IN THE OCEAN on the Inter-galactic range that the Engineers have MAPS for.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
There is quite a lot of Evidence the Engineers posses Technology that is BEYOND what Mankind had 2000+ Years Ago.
It is likely they have Lights, it seems they have some kind of Solar Power Systems. However it seems they LIVE a Basic Life just as say the Amish People do in the USA.... they SHUN Technology for the Most Part but still use some.
They (Amish) Live a Basic Life that Follows their Religion, and does-not really take part in what Modern Technology and Culture Offers... the Modern Culture and Vices could be considered Sinful or Potentially Corrupting.
You could Argue that IF the Engineers saw Mankind behaving in ways like the AMISH do compared to what many Modern Societies do, then they would NOT be as Offended.
So it is likely the Planet 4 Engineers live this similar Life that Follows the Engineers Ways, were the Technology is mainly there for a Certain Purpose.
And to me that Purpose does-not add up to CREATE HORRID BIO-WEAPONS!
Paradise.... what is Paradise? Apart from IF we take away a Place that our IMMORTAL SOULS can Live Forever?
Paradise was the Location of the Garden of Eden, it was the Birth Place of Mankind, a Walled City where Adam and Eve would have EVERYTHING they needed in One Place, Watched over by Cherubim Angels.
*It is NOT were GOD comes from.
*It is NOT were the ANGELS come from.
It is the CRADLE/CREATION of our Civilization, a Place that Adam and Eve could Dwell, as they was Perfect Creation of their Gods. However.... After the FALL of Adam and Eve they became Sinful and UNWORTHY of Paradise and they was KICKED OUT.
The other CONTEXT of Paradise which Spans Many Cultures and Religions has ONE common THEME!
It is a Place ONLY the Worthy (in the Eyes of the Gods) can EVER hope to Obtain a Place there.
I think IF we look at Paradise like this and apply it to OUR Ancestors, which could imply the Engineers then Planet 4 makes Perfect Sense!
I would assume Planet 4 contains the Genetic Stock that the Engineers Hierarchy would select their Sacrifices from to Seed Worlds. For which would be seen as a GREAT Honor for their Culture.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Hi everyone, this is my first post on here. Just found this site, love that there's a place to discuss the Alien films (specifically the Prequel series) in depth.
I'm a big fan of them and their more philosophical mythos being injected into the already exquisite Lovecraftian horror of the original film, and David is a brilliantly complex Luciferian antagonist to watch evolve as our new main character, and serves as an excellent counter and reflection to Ripley.
I'm ultimately very excited to see where the story ends up going in the third film, especially with some of the little things that have been discussed about it in interviews.
The one big thing that strikes me about this, and I am more than happy to be corrected on this, is that after AC Ridley left the impression that a script was ready to go. Now it looks like there have been some seriously big rethinks. Perhaps this is a major factor in why we have had to wait quite a long time to hear the slightest bit of info as to a possible direction of a next instalment.
I am going to speculate wildly since there have not been any official updates, but I would certainly welcome an as yet, unseen race of engineers that are more in line, and capable of explaining the original space jockey.
Welcome aboard ;)
There was some Conflicting Reports about the Draft, it was said they was working on it right NOW (as of the Release of Alien Covenant) but then in other interviews he had said its ready to go...
We can Speculate that the Basic Idea was like 80% Done at least.... i think the Disappointment at the Box Office of Alien Covenant and the Criticism had made FOX have to Re-Think what went so WRONG!
The Take Over Talks (Comcast and Disney) further put things on HOLD!
Its a Question of IF those in Charge at Disney want to pursue the kind of Plot that RS had indicated.
Points to Consider about the Sequels! as far as Ridley Scott has mentioned.
*We are 2-3 more Movies Away from the Back Door of ALIEN, and by the Conclusion we would KNOW who is Siting in that Chair and How they and those Eggs got there.
*The Xenomorph still has some Evolving to do before we get to ALIEN.
*They are going to the Planet (Origae-6) but there would be 3/4 Incoming Parties that would arrive, and ONE of those would be the Engineers who Discover what had happened to Planet 4 and want to find the Culprit.
*The Next Movie would be about "What Kind of a World" would David Create!
*The Next Movie would NOT be about the Xenomorph but it would be about AI.
*The Following Movies could Branch Out into a War of the Worlds!
Alien Covenant had ended showing us that David is NOW in Full Control of the Covenant, where it is going and the FATE of those Colonist/Embryos are in his Hands.
He (as Walter) had informed those who had Sent Out the Covenant Mission that some of the Crew had died in a Accident and that the Covenant and rest of the Colonist are NOW on the way to Origae-6 as intended.
He later as David had sent the Advent Message to someone else at Weyland-Yutani on a more Secure Chanel, informing them of who he is, where he had been and what he had been up to. This will LIKELY be where TWO of the Incoming Parties are from....
David has only TWO Face Huger Embryos, he has many Good Souls, he wants to Perfect his Queen.. HOWEVER... the Next Movie would NOT be about Xenomorphs but AI.
And we cant assume AI would just mean about David and other Androids... AI can apply in Multiple Ways... not LIMITED to Robotics.. This is maybe were we have to Consider what KIND of a World he would Build/Create that has to do with AI and NOT about Xenomorphs.
The Engineers will return to Planet 4 and Discover what Happened and then be in Pursuit of David, considering Origae-6 will take 7 Years 4 Months and assuming the Engineers Ships are VASTLY Quicker... it is LIKELY the Engineers Do-Not Turn up for Many Years.
Evidence they Discover would likely have them LOOKING at Earth and LV-223... so HOW would they know David is going to Origae-6?
They would LIKELY Discover Walter and be able to obtain where David is going from him, and this could be one of the OTHER Parties.
Party (1) = Engineers
Party (2) = Walter or another Group of Engineers.
Parties (3/4) = TWO Human Ships... One heading to Origae-6 with NO knowledge of what happened to the Covenant and DAVID and another that arrives Latter that has SOME/FULL knowledge of who DAVID is and what he had been up to.
Thats my Interpretation of the Plot that RS had indicated.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
To carry on with WHICH of our Engineers would be Returning we need to look at our Engineers.
Prometheus and especially LV-223 showed what appear to be more Advanced Superior Engineers the Übermensch variants. We have to Assume that as of the END of Prometheus that NONE of these are Alive.. but we CANT rule out any more of these in the Galaxy.
The Deleted Scene showed us the ELDERS who looked to be just more OLDER and Frail Versions of those Engineers, these are removed and not considered Canon as RS did-not want to meet the GODS as he put it in the FIRST Movie.
Alien Covenant had revealed to us a more Primitive, Less Superior more Human looking Faction of Engineers that Ridley Scott had mentioned are the ORIGINAL Engineers. By the END of Alien Covenant we have to Assume that NONE of these are Alive on Planet 4 but we CANT rule out any more of these in the Galaxy.
We also got to see the HALL OF HEADS which seemed very Reminiscent of the Big Head Statue in Prometheus but also the ELDERS from the Deleted Scene (Prometheus) these depict what are very Wise/Ancient and Superior Beings the Keepers of the Engineers Ways/Rituals and the Hierarchy.
Is this Merely a Small Group of Beings/Engineers or are there MANY of these and what makes them different to our Planet 4 and Prometheus Engineers is something to Ponder... are they LONG GONE?
Maybe we CANT rule out any more of these in the Galaxy.
For Certain some form of ENGINEERS will return they return to Planet 4 and Various Intervals.
So maybe those Planet 4 Engineers are aware of other Engineers and Ships arriving? it depend on what History is Passed on, and HOW often do Ships Return.
There was the Scorpion Ship so those Engineers are aware of the Technology and so would not be so IN AWE of it.
*Maybe the RETURN of Engineer Ships is a Event that is Once in a Life-Time or Few Generations for those Engineers?
*Maybe its a RETURN of the Military from WAR but surely Questions must be asked about HOW-LONG has it been since other such Military Ships arrive and WHY are they NOT concerned about such a Overdue Return?
*Maybe the RETURN usually signifies some Ritual and Important Event if we consider they are Genetic Gardeners of Space.
I just cant BUY the Theory that KROFT had as far as those Engineers simply dont have Technology and are Shocked and Surprised by seeing ONE turn up!
IF a ALIEN ship was to Turn up in a Busy City in the WORLD we would have some who would Rush Out to see it and Welcome it and be amazed... but other would be FEARFUL!
The Engineers were Gathering around the HANGER as if it had some Significant Importance, the Hanger can Store Juggernauts. And there are other Juggernauts in the Hanger so they ARE aware of them but as this was not SHOWN in the Movie (Deleted Scene) we cant assume the Hanger has any Juggernauts but it is the Right Size for them and the Hanger was Opening Up for the Ship (The Scorpion Ship was already Airborne).
Maybe we could ASK for WHY the Engineer Flocked to the Hanger and WHY the Hanger had those 4 Statues in a Offering Pose?
Regarding which Engineers Turn up.... who knows... could we be Introduced to another Larger Humanoid Race/Faction again who knows..
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
@Queen Denton Welcome to the site!
Almost every alien theory video I've seen says beings on Planet 4 aren't Engineers despite the filmmakers claiming they are. And then there's the most popular theory; SJ being different, superior species to the engineers.
Fan pressure indeed has a big impact on the development and the story of the film, because the studios will always try to please their fans because they think if they don't then they won't make as much money as intended.
I remember when the first AVP movie came out and it was rated PG-13, everyone went nuts. Then they made AVPR and it was rated hard R. And it didn't help or save the film. Fans complained about rating and studio just though fans want blood, violence, and gore.
I also remember when 10 Cloverfield Lane trailer came out, Cloverfield fans went insane because they were dying to see Cloverfield monster on the big screen. Then the film came out and it had very little to do with Cloverfield (2008), and that made the majority of fans disappointed. 10 Cloverfield lane itself was a pretty good film on its own. Even the producer J.J. Abrams said it's not a sequel or a prequel, but a blood relative to the first Cloverfield film. Fans, of course, begged for the Cloverfield monster so the next one was The Cloverfield paradox (2018), and that one despite having the monster fans wanted, was a pretty bad film.
I suspect if (Alien) fans continue to complain about the differences between the SJ and the engineers, and the SJ being a superior being, I suspect in the next film they might reveal that the SJ is one of David's creations, to differ it from the engineers.
In the book that contains all of David's drawings from AC, I think there's one interesting illustration. That specific illustration appears to depict a mutated engineer helmet, very similar to the Space Jockey head. I don't know who drew it, Dane Hallet or Matt Hatton. Idk if this is a reference/easter egg to the 1979 SJ, or did David really experiment with engineer suits.
If we don't want this to happen, then let's be quiet.
"I suspect in the next film they might reveal that the SJ is one of David's creations, to differ it from the engineers"
The Potential for that is there... i had suspected that David would attempt to BETTER the Gods.. that in Engineers as far as to Create a Superior Humanoid.
So David Creating the Space Jockey is something that cant be ruled out... and if he did then maybe it wont be 15ft Tall which would still cause some Fans to Speculate that its NOT the Space Jockey and they (RS/Disney/Fox) may do this on Purpose so that their is that ELEMENT of inconsistency to leave it open!
Regarding Easter Eggs.... there is a lot of Cool Art they did that was added to the back ground of Davids Lab, to Flesh Out/Fill some of the Space. some are maybe there NOT intended to be any Connection, but those with keen eye could spot them and then consider they have to connect somehow..
Which can lead to different Theories/Conflicts.
From these... we see the TOP looks more Bio-Mechanical than Davids Xenomorph, we see Middle shows the Classic Chest Buster, and Bottom is somewhat closer to the Space Jockey.
Are these intended to show they are what David had actually seen/done?
Regarding the Engineering of Humans, maybe David could Engineer from those Human Embryos something similar to this.
I had a view ideas on what he would create when working on my ideas for Alien Covenant 2 and 3.... and indeed if he created a Hybrid Humanoid that could Communicate Telepathically or Similar with each other..
These Rebel and so he Unleashes his Xenomorphs only to Discover these Humanoids he Engineered can Communicate with them, then what a HUBRIS that would be for David.
I suspect the PATH would eventually lead to Davids Downfall coming from his Creations.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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