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Xenomorph mass production factory

Xenomorph mass production factory

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setaverde

Jun-09-2019 6:39 AM

What if David settles on Origae-6 a factory that produces massively Xenomorphs.

First, he assembles a "line of montage", where he replicates two thousend Times the facehugger's Embryos, regurgitated by him. He doesn't need the ovomorphs, because he has available 2000 colonists/hosts ready to be impregnated by facehuggers with Xenomorph's Embryos. This way, he cuts the first stage of the Xenomorph's life cycle.

Second, after the growth of the 1140 human embryos INTO infants, he repeats the procedure.

Eventually, in the future, there Will be definitions in the genres of the Xenomorphs , masculin and feminin, males and females, because Nature always finds a way of balance and equilibrium.

There's your Alien Queen, a goddam mass production factory of Xenomorphs.

Interesting and inspiring sites:

https://samhain13.home.blog/alien-vs-predator-timeline-2100-2200-a-d/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/first-life-with-alien-dna-created-in-lab/?redirect=1

 

MED lab from 'Aliens':

 David's Origae-6 first factory:

 

20 Responses to Xenomorph mass production factory

BigDave

Jun-10-2019 12:50 AM

I think its interesting to PONDER how we get to Thousands of Eggs on the Derelict if we are to Assume/Accept that David is the Architect in all of this.

It depends how we look at the Prequels and what Process is NEXT!

With only TWO Face Huggers we have to maybe assume the Following.

1) We will be shown them infect Hosts and Introduce the Egg Morph as a route to Turning the Colonist into Hosts.

2) We are introduced to a Queen from one of those Face Huggers but i think this would not be the ideal way to go, where (3) would be better.

3) Using either ONE of the Face Huggers to Experiment on, or Experiment from the Resulting Chest Buster, we see David is able to Engineer a Queen.  I think having some Black Goo could be a handy way to Engineer such.

4) David Experiments on the Face Huggers in some way where he can FUSE their DNA with the Embryos to either Create Hybrids/New Xenomorphs that Procreate via (1) or (2) or he Experiments with the Face Huggers DNA to somehow create more Eggs.  I think having some Black Goo could be a handy way to Engineer such.

Regarding the Covenant Ship i think maybe it could be ideal to conduct Experiments, a lot depends on the Lay-Out of the Ship and ability to SHUT-OFF and Quarantine Sections... which it appears the Ship has the ability to provide this.

The Ship appears to be Modular in Design, it seems like we have a Frame with Certain Sections that are VITAL to the Ship which include the Bridge/Control.  But the Individual Cabin/Quarters which i think are likely taken down to the Surface by the LANDER that Tennessee came to the Rescue in.  And so David could take these down and assemble them up into Small Test Labs, maybe Numerous Sites to help with Control/Containment.

You would think that IF it is that David only wants to Create Thousands of Xenomorphs then LV-223 for Experiments would be ideal, but this takes him closer to Earth and with the Advent, maybe leave him less time to Experiment/Create his HORDE.

So Provided he has some Black Goo then indeed setting up Labs on Origae-6 could be the way to go.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Gavin

Jun-10-2019 3:32 AM

@ BigDave,

I seriously doubt that David will be revealed to be the "Space Jockey", and that the thousands of colonists will become the thousand's of eggs. Not only would this be the laziest writing since Alien: Resurrection, it would destroy the alien-ness and mystery of the Derelict and its origins.

When it comes to the Derelict on LV-426, IMO I think that it will just make a cinematic appearance in the third prequels closing moments (or a post-credit scene), with some ambiguous reference towards during the movie, may as the "Lost Ark" or the "Tomb of the Fallen".

The same goes for LV-223. In all honesty, I expect that the moon will not feature, with a reference or inference at most.

As for Origae-6, I think what setaverde has speculated will be part of what we will see - that David will establish a facility on the planet using the Covenants colony modules, in which he will use his two Facehuggers to mass produce his version of the Xenomorph. Visually I expect this facility, in its prime, would have been reminiscent of similar facilities seen in Doom 3 and various Alien comic-book/video-game concept art.

However, I recall there being mention that Ridley also wanted to see the Alien homeworld, or something visually similar. This is what I expect will become of Origae 6 - a Xenomorph infested facility surrounded by a bio-mechanical of growths, tunnels and bulbous "hives".

As for David needing to Black Goo for his mass production, I think that the substance will be revealed to be part of the Xenomorphs physiology, similar maybe to the "Royal Jelly" from the Dark Horse comic and thus revealing that David's alleged creation is just a recreation of what the ENgineers discovered thousands of years beforehand on LV-426.

ignorantGuy

Jun-10-2019 6:02 AM

@Gavin, like it or not, David being the Space Jockey was probably the route they would have gone because:

1. With covenant only David is Fassbender are important. Now that is a bright decision as with Dark Phoenix's flop, MF seems long streak seems not to end so why would Disney even bet on him?

2. The Alien is not yet finished, meaning he needs a synth host to acquire the rest of it's characteristics.

3. RS said that the next one will lead straight into the first one, so the silo is highly likely not to be a vague cameo. RS is usually not very subtle, sorry.

4. Was the twist in Covenant subtle? Why not look at history instead of what one wishes?

BigDave

Jun-10-2019 7:59 AM

@Gavin

Sorry if i was miss-understood, my reply was simply to Discus the OT in regards to HOW we could see David Mass Produce Xenomorphs, i certainly Dont think it would be a Good Idea to reveal David as the Space Jockey, i think its something we CANT rule out, but again it would make the whole Enigma of the Scene from ALIEN even less ALIEN.

I think there is a lot of Wishful Thinking about David being shown to NOT be the Creator and Fans can Cherry Pick certain things to Highlight the Case that he is NOT.  However Ridley Scott suggested that he does indeed create the Xenomorph, but things could be subject to Change, Fan Pressure can have a Impact to SWAY the Plot as this is HOW we got Alien Covenant in the First Place.

Back to the OT, and indeed its Pretty Convenient that the Covenant has Thousands of Good Souls... Maybe its not so much Lazy/Easy Plot but could be used as a Red Herring?  Certainly seems SET-UP that Davids objective would be to MASS Produce his Creation.

When looking at the PLAN, it appears RS is going for a Direct Route to the Back End of ALIEN, so we will at the Conclusion Discover HOW/WHEN and WHY those Eggs end up on the Derelict but who knows how SPOON-FED this would be as it could be Loosely Implied.

I think therefor we was on a Direct Route to ALIEN, events of the AC Sequel will lead to and play part in the Chain of Events to when we Arrive at the Cargo of Eggs on the Derelict.  The thing to take NOTE of however is that RS had implied the NEXT Movie would NOT connect Directly, in that we are at least TWO Movies away from reaching the Conclusion that is the Space Jockey Event.

It seems implied that we are off to Origae-6 but we would Conclude with being in the System of LV-223/426 and so while David has to Produce more Eggs we are MISSING a Engineer Ship and it would be even more of a Convenient Coincidence if Origae-6 has a Engineer Ship.

I think the arrival of the Engineers as stated by RS will be the avenue to OBTAIN the Derelict, and so its NOT by any means Set-in-Stone that the Space Jockey would be David or a Human, it makes more sense for it to be a Engineer, a Race above the Engineers or another Creation of the Engineers or even a Creation of Davids.

You could expect the Engineers to be Curious of Davids Xenomorph and try and Obtain them... i think something like this gives us the LIKELY route to the Space Jockey Event...  But who knows what they have planned, i dont think we can RULE-OUT a Carter Burke kind of Character, tries to take the Ship to Earth lol

I think when talking about the OT, and so to discus how we get from TWO Face Huggers to Thousands of Eggs, i think that maybe another U-Turn as in to show that David does-not Create the Xenomorph would be giving in to Fan Pressure, they need to stick with what they have done and Evolve the Story.

So while some would like the Engineers to Return with a Ship and UNLEASH a Xenomorph Queen which by Virtue would IMPLY that David had NOT created the Xenomorph, i dont think such a route would be wise, certainly something i cant see RS doing.

However they DONT have to go all the Way with David as the Creator....  its Damage Control now and so maybe we need to look at WHY the Engineers had Murals to something on LV-223 and would Experiment with stuff like that, instead of just using Black Goo Payloads.... if some Engineers took a Keen Interest and Devotion to the Deacon, they could see David's Creation as a Superior One but one that is NOT yet Perfect and thus the Engineers or another Race could be used to take Davids Xenomorph and EVOLVE it to get to the Cargo on the Derelict.

Saying that though a lot of things seem Conveniently Positioned by Virtue of the No-Longer Ancient Xenomorph Plot, and as ignorantGuy had indicated we cant OVERLOOK the Biological Aesthetic of the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant that RS had said has still some Evolving to do.... and so we cant rule out a Walter-Morph to become what we know as our Xenomorph from ALIEN.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-10-2019 8:11 AM

Regarding the ALIEN looking World...

Indeed RS had intended to take us to something like this HAD he been able to make ALIEN 2,  i dont think we could rule out seeing Origae-6 turned into something like this, but i think its a case of NOT trying to conflict the ALIEN Franchise.

By that there are a number of Avenues at Present that get us to ask the Following....

WHY does the Company Pursue the Xenomorph via LV-426, certainly regarding the Plot revelations from ALIENS on wards, we have to ask WHY, if there are other Avenues of Xenomorph or similar for ExampleLV-223, Planet 4 and likely Origae-6

But these Avenues open up a Possibility to Explore a NEW Movie, but the Conclusion of such Avenues should be that these places NO-LONGER Yield anything and thus leaving ONLY the Derelict as the way to obtain the Specimen/Organism.

Another BIG Question is to ASK... WHY does the Derelict end up on LV-426, is it just a Coincidence that the Ship leaves say Origae-6 on the way to Earth and just happens to pass by LV-426?

So IF we continue with the PLOT that as of the year 2105 (Alien Covenant) there are NO Eggs or Derelict on LV-426, then its likely a Engineer Ship with those Eggs or similar does go to LV-223 where it either is heading to LV-223 or leaves LV-223 before the Space Jockey Event.

If the Engineers take David's Creation to LV-223 to Evolve and Mass Produce... then this would open up the Possibility that the Derelict is NOT the ONLY Ship to be loaded up... so this could lead us to another Ship leaving that Goes to some World and Unleashes the Xenomorph which we could arrive at this World as Part of a NEW Movie.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

setaverde

Jun-10-2019 10:06 AM

Origae-6 could be like death star of star wars, but with Xenomorphs. The plan of David's universe domination starts now!  :)

BigDave

Jun-10-2019 1:06 PM

I think as i said prior its Tricky in how we introduce things as we need to bare in mind the Alien Franchise.

In ALIENS it was claimed the Company had NEVER encountered anything like what Ripley was saying in many Surveyed Worlds, but there is always the Cover-Up and Conspiracy Element that can account for that.

We still need to ask WHY bother with LV-426 after ALIEN and in deed maybe WHY-NOT have gone back between ALIEN and ALIENS, then we have WHY pursue Ripley in Alien 3

A World that has become Totally Over-ran by Xenomorphs could maybe give us a Answer, and so while on ONE hand a Death Star/Planet of Xenomorphs would surely be something they cant MISS and plentiful Species to Obtain. On the other HAND... such a Place would HOLD a far GREATER Risk.

Do you attempt to obtain Xenomorphs from a Infested World, or from a Isolated Downed Ship?

The same applies with Alien 3, WHY go after Ripley if the Derelict is still there?  The Logical Answer would be that going after a SINGLE Organism, and one that is a QUEEN is less Risky than going back to the Derelict.

The Interesting thing to PONDER would be HOW does any World become so Infested?

The Alien DC Egg Morph route would indicate that for a World to have say 100 Eggs a Xenomorph (or group) would have to Egg Morph 100 Hosts and so you need suitable Organisms to Act as a Egg Morph Host.

The QUEEN route would be a easier way to have a World become infested by Thousands of Eggs, especially if we are talking Multiple Queens/Nests/Hives.

We DONT know what route RS would have gone with the Prequels.  David had said he has yet to PERFECT his Queen, which some could mean we are going to see the Queen, but maybe we need to not READ too much Literally into that.

If he requires a Human either Adult or Embryo to Obtain a Egg then in reality you would ASSUME that Origae-6 would only have about 3000 or so Eggs due to the Number of Colonist/Embryos.

One thing that is OVERLOOKED could be HOW it is that David had Obtained those Eggs he had on Planet 4, its indicated he Created them and Dr Shaw played a LARGE role in that.

a Simple Way to look at this would be Prometheus and to look at the Deacon, we see its likely that the Trilobite came about via the Black Goo (or Infected Sperm) had Infected one of Dr Shaws Ineffective Egg Cells.

Lets say David had contained Dr Shaw and did a C-Section and placed the Trilobite into some kind of Stasis/Container, then ONCE we have Dr Shaw Healed up, he could Repeat the Process Over and Over...

He could even just take her Egg Cells and Test Tube Grow them and Infect them.....

Alien Covenant seems to indicate that David had used Dr Shaws Reproductive System to Create the Eggs, and so he could simply Repeat the Process with Multiple Females.

And so Similar to what these Concepts appear to SHOW.

Another idea that could be applied is the following.

A Cabbage in effect Clones itself from Dead Material of another Cabbage, so a Cabbage could be CUT up into pieces and under the right circumstances a NEW Cabbage would grow from the Decomposing Material.

In effect it would be like Cutting off some Fingers and then watch them become a CLONE of yourself... i had mentioned this Theory a Few Years back on here.

Ridley Scott had claimed the Xenomorph can Regenerate, and that the One Killed by the CLAW would have Regenerated, this sounds a BIT Silly!  But its apparently a idea that RS had...

However what if instead we have a Xenomorph that is KILLED or Dies Off, will eventually Decompose and from this Matter we see a Egg Sprout or maybe Multiple Eggs appear from the Remains of a DEAD Xenomorph.

This would in effect make them similar to the CABBAGE.

We have NOT seen the Egg Morph apart from the DC Cut of ALIEN, you can be sure RS did like the Concept, and so we cant rule it being something that would be EXPLORED.

But it could be DONE in a different way to ALIEN DC

So we could see a Host is Infected and becomes a Blob of Mutated Matter, where Growing from this are a Number of Small Eggs.... these Eggs then Grow...

They at the Small Size could be HARVESTED and Planted elsewhere if you would.

We see Small Eggs in this SHOT and we can assume the Face Hugger Embryos had been Obtained from Smaller Eggs.

If David could Create the Eggs by Infecting Human Egg Cells and Store them in some way to allow them to Grow as shown in some of the Concept for Alien Paradise Lost above.

And we are introduced to a Egg Morph were a Host Decomposes into a MASS that has Multiple Eggs Growing from them, and we are shown a DEAD Xenomorph also becomes a MASS that Multiple Eggs Grow from, then THESE would surely be a way that a World can be INFESTED by Thousands and Thousands of EGGS!

These Methods would show that its NOT necessary for a Queen, but then it could also add another layer of Procreation to just a Queen.

I have a Sneaky Suspicion that RS may have intended similar to what i Proposed, certainly something i had discussed a number of times on HERE and i think it would Work Well ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-10-2019 1:45 PM

Regarding those LINKS....

There is a Nice Amount of Effort in this ONE.

Its a case of what to consider CANON... the Fire and Stone Comics etc i would not be ready to Consider as Canon, the Alien Covenant Origins Book is Considered Canon.

The ONE to pay attention to is the Alien Covenant Novelization as this does differ from the Movie.  it does add some Elements that were Rumored to have at some point been intended (Neomorph vs Xenomorph) but if differs in a number of things..

Such as David sneaking on Eggs and not Face Huggers, which makes more sense to me i guess. (Eggs).

The Big Question is regarding the Xenomorph Egg, which the Novel indicates that David had Found it as it was... HENCE we see David had NOT created the Original.

This HOWEVER.. is not indicated in the Movie and RS has mentioned that the Xenomorph is Davids' Creation.

I find it FLAWED in HOW it would be that David Discovered the Egg as it were...  WHY does he go through all those Experiments and Cross Hybridization if he has a Xenomorph Egg, he could just Replicate this via Black Goo.

David's Notes offer some insight to the Creation of the Xenomorph and seem to indicate it was a Engineered Creation from the Neomorph and then mixing its Traits with Various Life-Forms to Create the Perfect Hybrid... the Xenomorph.

I am not trying to make this Topic into a David Did-Not Create the Xenomorph Thread as we recently had ONE of those...

What i am suggesting is that THINGS are Subject to Change, and so they could give us a indication that David had OBTAINED  Xenomorph Egg.

I just dont think its something the Engineers would have Lying Around on their Home-world, they surely are NOT that STUPID?

So if they GO for this route/change then they have to come up with another PLACE that David had obtained a Xenomorph Egg from...   Do we ASSUME that after Dr Shaw was placed into Cryo-Sleep that David just went to Planet 4?  He was NOW Free to do what ever he wants and so he could have gone to LV-223 or LV-426 and maybe obtained a Egg?

This i feel is WISHFUL thinking....

IF they did go for the David Found a Egg route, then what they need to do is have David be shown that HIS variant is SUPERIOR or becomes Superior, maybe Controlled.. Maybe introduce a Reproduction Method thats more Superior a Modified Egg Morph maybe like i mentioned in the Post Prior.

So Davids Xenomorph can Egg Morph, they can Regenerate even if its a case of from the DEAD Xenomorph we get Eggs Appear.... and David is able to CONTROL them...

Then this would be a route that maybe RS would not mind... i dont think Fans can have their CAKE and EAT IT!

By that showing that David just Creates a Cheap Knock Off would not be something i feel RS would be happy with but would make some Fans Happy.

Having David Create a Superior Version, with a different Procreation, and that can be Controlled would FIT more with the Themes at Play.... pursuit of Perfection.

Then we can go about HOW these can be Mass-Produced in a Different Way and NOT have to go to LV-426/223.

By having Davids Xenomorph be more Superior and Controllable would Certainly Give Good Reason for the Company to Pursue the Derelict to attempt to Replicate Davids Creation..

Because ULTIMATELY by the Time we get to ALIEN we have to be shown that Davids Creation is NO LONGER available at least as far as within the Reach of Humanity in the Alien Franchise.

I think such a Route was unlikely... it is more likely that David created the Xenomorph, which has some Evolving and Ends Up on the Derelict and these Elements would have been shown Certainly in a AC3 if you would.

But things could be Subject to Change again... certainly to Please Fans, because if the Fans are Happy they would go and Pay $$$ to see more Movies and Disney wants to make $$$$$

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

setaverde

Jun-10-2019 7:53 PM

I was so disappointed with the engineers of planet 4. For me, that engineers are not the descendants of the "One", the immortal and planet 4 is not the Lost paradise. It's like earth to the goa'ulds, if we think in the Stargate series.

Ridley Scott says that the engineers are the gardners of the universe. Yeah, i agree if they are seeding a planet with a new specie, but they are also destroyers of civilizations, of worlds, because it's in their nature playing God. The black goo is a killing animal Cell virus.

David knows how to spread a deadly infection in a planet, atomizing in the atmosphere the black goo, that consumes all the meat of the living beings. the engineers are destroyers and simultaniously seeders of life. From the ashes of the bodies, a new infectious and contagious life is Lurking an oportunity to see the light of birth. It ONLY needs a plenty Number of hosts.

I'm saying This, because David can use Neomorphs to achieve his goals of universe domination, while he perfects the mass production of Xenomorphs, in vitro or with a Queen.

The means that he needs to do it are the problem. Instead of going to Origae-6, David should return to lv-223. He has lots of engineers space ships and an infinite source of black goo inside of them.

Maybe, every ship has an engineer sleeping in its cryo chamber and David could use their  DNA to conduce more experiments and thus perfect the cycle of creation of the xenomorph and the xenomorph itself.

 

setaverde

Jun-10-2019 8:15 PM

 

 

 

 

Another new old route:

Alien awakening..

The engineers fleet, dorment in the soil of the planet lv-223, violently awakens due to the Prometheus events. They start a pursuit of the engineer ship, with Elizabeth Shaw on board.

setaverde

Jun-10-2019 8:16 PM

 

 

 

Another new old route:

Alien awakening...

The engineers fleet, dorment in the soil of the planet lv-223, violently awakens due to the Prometheus events. They start a pursuit of the engineer ship, with Elizabeth Shaw on board.

BigDave

Jun-11-2019 1:56 AM

I think to answer your last post would be easier First. We cant rule out the Possibility of there being more Engineers on LV-223, we have to ask would that Engineer had still been in Cryo-sleep as of current Time-Line of 2105 (Alien Covenant) had the Prometheus Mission not Happened? The chances are YES.  We know David said there are MANY more Ships on LV-223 and so to me thats not a case of 2-3 More.

So we cant rule out any more Engineers on LV-223

But as far as these Engineers Awakening and then trying to Pursue Dr Shaw and David this simply can not be, and that is because we first have to ASK how would they know that David and Dr Shaw had taken a Ship, i guess they could Discover some kind of Flight Log of Ships that leave.

Regardless we next have to consider The Crossing and Dr Shaw's Hair Growth indicated that she had spent 6-10 Months on that Juggernaught before she decided to Re-Attach Davids Head.   Then Finally David was on Planet 4 for nearly 10 Years, a Engineer Ship on Intercept Course from LV-223 would arrive about the Same Number of Weeks as they had awoken compared to when David and Dr Shaw left for Planet 4.

By that if say David and Dr Shaw Finally leave for Planet 4 in say September 2094, and the Engineers awaken in November 2094 and then Discover a Ship has left for Planet 4, then the Engineers would arrive at Planet 4 some TWO Months after David arrived.

I know some Fans would have liked to had seen Dr Shaw had interacted with some Engineers, but the Alien Covenant Plot did-not allow for this... she DIED and thats kind of that......  However that does-not mean that she NEVER had some Interaction with a Engineer

We know David had lied about her Death... she DID-NOT get Killed during the Crash of the Juggernaught.  So she was Alive for a Period of Time we just dont know HOW LONG.... and its Unlikely that David just Killed her for Nothing.  So she could have been TOLD that the Planet is Infected by Accident and so Dr Shaw has to stay on the Juggernaught..... eventually she may get suspicious for some reason, such as if David talks and gets Excited about some Life he Discovered... so she could then take the Risk to Sneak Out and then Arrive at the Cathedral and then Stumble upon what David was doing, such as Experiments on Surviving Female Engineers and Infants..

So she could maybe have tried to help them Escape... in which we have to ask what David would make of this... he could offer a Explanation, which Dr Shaw would not accept and then likely their Relationship had Turned Sour at this Point/Revelation.. so he feels Betrayed and decides to USE her for his Experiments as he was NOT quite getting the Desired Results with a Engineer.

This may have gone OFF-TOPIC... but to a degree it keeps with the OT, because we are trying to Wonder HOW can David create Thousands of Eggs.... and so if we go back to his Experiments its likely he Created some Eggs from a Female Engineers Egg Cells, but he only really got a more Successful Organism via using Dr Shaw's Egg Cells.

Looking at HOW the Black Goo seemed to work, well if you can Program it to ACT like the Sacrificial Goo, then all David would need is some of that GOO and those Face Hugger Embryos to break down their DNA into a Mutagen that passes on Xenomorph Traits, and use this on Human Egg Cells to maybe Create more Eggs.

You see David had got to a Certain Point with his Experiments with the Female Engineers, we have to Consider at WHAT extent had his Experiments Reached at this Point, to what more work was needed to get to those Eggs Obtained by using Dr Shaw.   If this was a case of just apply the same Method used on Female Engineers to Dr Shaw, then as long as David has this Method he can simply apply it to any Female... Daniels for Example to then Create more Eggs.

Regarding the Black Goo Bombardment, it appeared these URNS had become Weaponized to Explode and then Seek Out Life and simply Replicate inside a Living Organism while then just Turning their Every Building Block to like Stone.

Different to what we saw in Prometheus.... the Neomorphs appeared from Spores that were Located near the Stream that Ran down the Mountain the Juggernaught had Crashed upon, its likely that Mold/Algae etc formed near the Source of Water where Fungi could grow and these got Infected by a Urn or Few that had NOT been Weaponized/Activate by the Ship but simply just Leaked or Broke Open and so the effects are similar to what Prometheus had shown.

Regarding LV-223 then YES it would be ideal to a degree to had GONE there and use the Place to Experiment... and Mass Produce Xenomorphs...   but the Problem is the Advent Message... because the Company knows, and surely would investigate LV-223 which means it does-not leave David as much time to Mass Produce Eggs compared to carrying on to Origae-6 but then where does he get Black Goo?  Maybe he has some left on Planet 4 and Recovers some.

We have to Remember Once David is in Control of the Ship he could head back to Planet 4. Or he could have had time to Grab a Ampoule while he also had got the Face Hugger Embryos?

Regarding the Planet 4 Engineers and Paradise i have a theory on that, and one that TURNS the Purpose of the Juggernauts around.... in that they are NOT ships of WAR but Seeding Ships.  But thats a whole Different Debate, that is better Discussed in another Topic ;)

I will say looking at the Themes of Prometheus and what AC has shown and RS comments about AI and the Planet 4 Engineers being Originals...  Then the LV-223 Engineers are likely either a Sub-Created Version of those Engineers used as Servants... think the Engineers version of Replicants... or they are  a Group of Engineers who took to Engineering themselves to become Superior/Evolved.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-11-2019 2:10 AM

Regarding this Link https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/first-life-with-alien-dna-created-in-lab/?redirect=1

This is Very Interesting, and the Engineers could have Created the Black Goo by similar, well in that its something they had Created as a Genetic Manipulation Tool..... or some other Species had Created this via similar means and the Engineers just STOLE it.

That Link is interesting because it does Raise some Potential Problems we could FACE if we play GOD, messing about with such Things could Potentially lead to the DOWNFALL of Mankind..

The other Potential to lead to that would be AI, Once a AI becomes Sentient and Rebels.... can you imagine such Experiments like that Link covers, and then these get into the HANDS of a Rogue AI Synthetic?

We have a David Scenario then..... and this is what the Prequels are showing us... the Engineers Hubris in Creating us and then Failing to Destroy us had lead to us Creating David who is then Free to use the Engineers Bio-logical Creation/Evolutionary Tool to Destroy the Engineers and then Weaponize it to Create a Horrific Organism.  That could then wipe out Mankind and the Engineers.

Oh the other Potential Downfall for Mankind.... Ourselves, our Ways, our Wars.....  which is likely why the Engineers abandoned us after the FAILED attempt to Destroy us...

They thought left to our own Devices, we would NEVER be able to Advance to reach the Stars and we would likely KILL ourselves off...  How Wrong was they!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Jun-11-2019 7:32 AM

What I choose to believe is that the Space Jockey is not an Engineer - or David - or anything like that. In Alien, the fossilised dead pilot clearly had bones that were bent outwards. The pilot in Prometheus was nothing like this. Some fancy eco-suit that snapped into place.

Personally, I believe it would be much more fitting (and leading to endless other possibilities) if the Space Jockeys turned out to be a completely different ancient race, perhaps the precursors to the Engineers. The Engineers are clearly a religious lot, big on iconography. Maybe they dress up in funny suits as some kind of homage to the Space Jockey creatures...

BigDave

Jun-11-2019 9:07 AM

I think the Space Jockey has been something that Various Fans have different Opinions on, there are some who INDEED see the Space Jockey as a SKELETON of Sorts...  But the Concept for the Space Jockey was intended as a Suit or at least it was Bio-Mechanical like the Xenomorph... 

When i First Saw the Space Jockey it looked like a Skeleton, years latter i felt the same too, i had then seen the Concept in a Magazine by HR Giger and i was drawn to it being more a Exo-Skeleton, like the Xenomorph that connected to the Chair.   It was only since the Advent of DVD and Internet in most Homes, that it allowed me to Study and Conclude this was NO Skeleton.

I dont want to derail the Topic to the Space Jockey, but Concept Work by HR Giger did show Bald Humanoids in Similar Suits... So the intention was a Space Suit, and this is what Ridley Scott saw it as.  Closer Inspection of the Space Jockey reveals its not really a Skeleton, well not what a Skeleton should look like, if we look close.

But i certainly can Agree the Engineers may come across as Disappointing for the Space Jockey Race... there are a number of Flaws to make them fit with the Prometheus Guys... but these could be just OVERSIGHT.

*Slight Aesthetic Difference.

*Slight Different Proportions

*Size Difference (13ft* VS 8ft** Aprox

But i think the Biggest Flaw comes from the Color... the Dead Engineer Suits maintained a Grey Color even though not as Glossy as New but after Thousands of Years they had NOT turned to a Bone-Like Shade.

I think also the Revelation of our Engineers and how they appeared in Alien Covenant has made some Fans feel they are just NOT really Alien Enough... that is compared to what Many would have maybe thought the Space Jockey would be.

Space Jockey Skeleton?  Nope.. you got think HOW would they look with Flesh Etc, considering the Bone Structure and it could look ODD.

Space Jockey Engineer?  Likely... but i think this would Disappoint and Fans not be happy at the differences being just a Oversight.

so i am up for the Revelation of another Species... one that would be about 12ft Tall then its a case of they are either a Race in a Space Suit (but make them Much Less Human) or they are a Totally Bio-Mechanical Being/Organism like the Xenomorph.

But its then HOW do you account for the Color and Degradation of the Space Jockey, surely ONLY a reveal that its been there for Many Thousands of Years..  like maybe Tens of Thousands or more would Fix This?

But we would Face the Same Problem with the Prequels anyway, as far as IF the Derelict/Space Jockey are NOT on LV-426 as of 18 years prior to ALIEN.  The Space Jockey looks like its been there for more than 18 years Unless its some kind of Skeleton you may think?

I think the Prequels have gone to a Place that is less ALIEN and less HR Giger Bio-Mechanical.... so i think we could do with going back to that Aesthetic and introduce another Layer to the Cake.

"if the Space Jockeys turned out to be a completely different ancient race, perhaps the precursors to the Engineers"

In a NUTSHELL.... i think this is the way to go ;)

But i think RS may have had a Different Curve-ball Precursor to the Engineers, one that may Upset Fans further.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

setaverde

Jun-11-2019 2:38 PM

What if the engineers had created androids before humans and these androids were the begining of the end of  the engineer's civilization?! The engineers had to destroy One by One, across the universe, and the last One was...the space jockey.

That's why the engineer of Prometheus riped out the head of David, without hesitation.

The engineer's androids were created to resemble with the One, the immortal and they have 12 ft tall like their "Christ".

 

My brain imploded right now.

Thanks @BigDave, for your enlightenment.

Maybe for the engineers, it's easy to locate the coordenates of their ships, because it's their technology.

It's plausible that the engineers didn't land on planet 4, because they didn't have detected any sign of life.

 

Everybody, i ask you to forgive my Madness.

 

BigDave

Jun-11-2019 4:45 PM

"Everybody, i ask you to forgive my Madness"

Madness is Welcome ;)

"What if the engineers had created androids before humans"   

AND

"That's why the engineer of Prometheus riped out the head of David, without hesitation"

Well that could be CLOSER to the Truth ;)

You see by Virtue of Ridley Scott suggesting our Planet 4 Plane Jane Engineers are the Originals..  and considering how when talking about AI he said Rachael and Batty were AI then things maybe are more clearer..

Replicants are AI Creation, just as Synthetics are, ONE is Organic, the other Synthetic.  Both ARTIFICIALLY Created and Intelligent and so the LV-223 Engineers could be basically the Replicants of Engineers Society, an so Created to Serve.

Before the Engineer TORE off Davids head, he Caressed his Head we saw PITY in the Engineers Eyes, if the Engineer was a Created/Engineer Servant then he could see in David a reflection of himself...

But if these Engineers become Rebellious to their Masters, then the Engineer would also Foresee the Potential for David to be the same and so he could see that David would be a Threat?

Maybe the Engineers had Renounced there ways, in relation to the Pursuit of Perfection/Engineering themselves or a Kind like this.  On ONE side it could be as with the Replicants (1).... to Serve... on the OTHER it could be like Human Elites Genetically Engineer (2) their Children to be Perfect, to have Designer Babies...  Eradicating all Flaws, making or attempting to Perfect Humans.

Imagine that...  giving Traits and Engineering Perfect Humans in terms of Superior Genetics, from Intelligence, to Physical to being Immune to a all Manner of Genetic Defects that affect LIFE-SPAN.

The Problem with this would be Eventually you risk Creating a Cast of Humans who see themselves as Superior and would want to RULE over their In-superior Brothers/Sisters and even to the Point Generations down the Line, that there is NO Need for Standard Plane Jane Humans.

So with those Engineers it could be either Scenario (1) or (2) from above ;)

The Engineers Renouncing their Ways..

This could be like if Earth and Mankind became Controlled by  Replicants, or Engineering Designer Babies leads to a Socieity of Elites who deem Mankind Worthless.

Then IF some Humans Destroyed these Freaks!  And Started Again...  they would maybe look back in Hubris and decide to NEVER play GOD and Genetically Engineer Enhanced Beings again. ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Jun-12-2019 10:27 AM

Thank you for the link to the article setaverde and nice topic.

The quotes below from the article cite some DNA basics and how the development (enzyme acceptance) was different from other genetic engineering work.

"For billions of years, the history of life has been written with just four letters — A, T, C and G, the labels given to the DNA subunits contained in all organisms. That alphabet has just grown longer, researchers announce, with the creation of a living cell that has two 'foreign' DNA building blocks in its genome.

'We didn’t even think back then that we could move into an organism with this base pair,' says Denis Malyshev, a former graduate student in Romesberg’s lab who is first author of the new paper. Working with test-tube reactions, the scientists succeeded in getting their unnatural base pair to copy itself and be transcribed into RNA, which required the bases to be recognized by enzymes that had evolved to use A, T, C and G.

The first challenge to creating this alien life was to get cells to accept the foreign bases needed to maintain the molecule in DNA through repeated rounds of cell division, during which DNA is copied. The team engineered the bacterium Escherichia coli to express a gene from a diatom — a single-celled alga — encoding a protein that allowed the molecules to pass through the bacterium's membrane."

Ingeniero

Jun-12-2019 10:30 AM

Great stuff. I'm still impressed that David performed his genetic engineering on paper in a stone temple room, below.

Agreed, madness is welcome.

BigDave

Jun-12-2019 4:15 PM

"I'm still impressed that David performed his genetic engineering on paper in a stone temple room"

He has the Black Goo which basically would do most of the HARD WORK for him, its if he can figure out how to Program it.

Or if we look at Prometheus alone... (consider Alien Engineers) then if he can get the Goo to behave like the Sacrificial Stuff then he could Cross-Hybrid Traits as he wishes.

Example...

Sacrificial Goo + Wolf = Wolf DNA MutagenInfect Human and RESULT = Werewolf.

Assume Human/Wolf with 50/50 DNA

Sacrificial Goo + Cat = Cat DNA Mutagen,  Infect Human and RESULT = Thundercat.

Assume Human/Cat with 50/50 DNA

Then if we used the Sacrificial Goo on a Werewolf we would end up with (in this theory) a Mutagen that would pass 50% Human and 50% Wolf DNA onto a Host.

If this Infects a Thundercat then we would (in this theory) have a Hybrid thats 25% Cat DNA, 25% Wolf DNA and 50% Human DNA

However if this Werewolf Mutagen was used on a CAT then we would get 25% Wolf, 25% Human and 50% Cat DNA Hybrid.

Looking at it like that then IF our David could get the Goo to Act like the Sacrificial Goo when he pleases he could use it to Cross-Hybrid Over and Over...

For example If you took the Thundercat/Werewolf Hybrid (25% Cat, 25% Wolf and 50% Human) and then used the Sacrificial Goo on that and then this Thundercat/Werewolf Hybrid Mutagen was then to Infect a BIRD...

The Result would be a 50% Bird, 25% Human, 12.5% Cat and 12.5% Wolf Hybrid.

I believe this is kind of like what David did, in how he managed to Mix Traits of so Many Organisms to obtain his Xenomorph.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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