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"Quit griping!" "I like griping"

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ninXeno426

May-06-2019 1:40 PM

Alright, I got a gripe. There has often been a lot of talk around here discussing Aliens, and how James Cameron "failed to expand the Alien universe" opting to "normalize" the xenomorph life cycle to that of an insect.

But how many people actually felt this way back in 1986? Things like eggmorphing were virtually unknown to a majority of the movie going public. Aliens after all was a big hit with both audiences and critics leading to it becoming a box office smash, something the Alien franchise hasn't been able to replicate in 33(!!!) years. 

So why is Aliens picked on by a certain subset of fans these days? Did it start with the 2003 "directors cut" of Alien? Or was it Rid Scott's Prometheus,a film that expanded The Alien universe in a decidedly divise manor? And why can't both egg morphing and Alien hive life cycle count exist? 

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

54 Responses to "Quit griping!" "I like griping"

dk

May-06-2019 2:28 PM

I think both egg morphing and hive can work. Depends if the xeno is alone or with the hive.

I Raptus

May-06-2019 10:20 PM

 The only thing I can fault Aliens on is that it is a victim of its own success and has developed a Nickelback-like stigma  for haters that love to hate on it for the sake of loving to hate on it.

It probably has aged the worst of the films because of its '80s action flick vibe. 

Much like hearing a Zeppelin song reminds you of the '70s, Matchbox 20 song reminds you of the '90s, and Limp Bizkit / Korn of the '00s etc

Aliens captures that '80s nostalgia which is thick in cheesy bravado and Corporate weaselness...  

But beyond that it is just as much awesome as the other films.

And if anything was the MOST expansive of the films ! 

ninXeno426

May-06-2019 11:04 PM

Being my favorite movie, I'm always a bit biased towards the film. As of now Aliens feels like The Last Jedi of it day. A new guy came in and added his own spin on the universe. Difference is it polarized next to no one at the time.

Aliens at times feels like it's the heart of the divide between The quadrilogy and Scotts prequels.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

I Raptus

May-07-2019 12:26 AM

ninXeno426 I re-watched Aliens a few weeks ago. Still has so many great moments.

Alien also feels like this atm. 

Borrowed from facebook

 

dk

May-07-2019 8:25 AM

I saw it in 1987 when it was still fresh and it still hasn't grown old for me. I wonder if someone who saw it for the first time on a blue ray might feel differently- "oh that looks so '80s".

BigDave

May-07-2019 11:15 AM

I think ALIENS is a tricky one to look at, because it has so many Hard Core Fans, i think they seem to be more Passionate about that Movie and i think most ALIENS Fans dont dislike ALIEN  but i think there are ALIENS Fans who seem to dislike the Sequels and Prequels to ALIEN/ALIENS.

I dont think ALIENS gets a lot of Critism, it gets some, but then i feel the Prequels seem to get more, Alien 3 and Alien R seem to get more.  I would say in General ALIENS does-not get too much Flak!

The Movie effects people in different ways, and i think some of those who may pick some Bones with it, sometimes are against the QUEEN because it appeared Cameron Did-Not pay attention to the Source Material.....   HOWEVER... we need to Bare in Mind that for the most part, the Majority of people who remember or saw ALIEN especially back then would NOT have been aware of the True Intended Xenomorph Life Cycle  and so you had to ASK about WHERE those Eggs came from?

In the Majority of Biology EGGS are Laid, and so the Introduction of   a Queen would kind of made Sense, despite the Source Material (O'Bannon) had the Egg Morph which was more ALIEN...   Some Fans looked at Cameron's Aliens as BUGS! which to a degree it does come across similar, but i wont agree with how some say they are DUMB Bugs, because i see more Evidence in ALIENS for the Xenomorph having Intelligence and a Purpose... in ALIEN it was just a Stealthy Predator who relied on Instinct to Hunt and Kill its Victims....   The DC Cut with the Egg Morph showed a Purpose to the Organism however.

For me Personally.... when i first saw ALIENS it was a worthy Sequel to ALIEN it made sense and it was Action Packed, and in the 80's there was that Market for Action Movies.  It was a bit Cheesy at times but this was the 80's and a lot of Movies were like this.

Looking back NOW, as i grew older and Mature, then Aliens did start to become just a Action Flick, a very Good one at that...  I was disapointed with ALIEN 3 but as time goes on, that Movie Grew on me, while ALIENS just became a Action Packed Popcorn Flick set within the Universe but a VERY well executed one.

ALIENS is essentially similar to Starship Troopers... what makes it different is that it was better executed, and had a relatable better Character who was carried on from ALIEN in Ellen Ripley and so ALIEN Elevated ALIENS, because you had her Experience/Encounter from ALIEN and her concerns and warning to those who accompanied her to LV-426 that they are dealing with something very SERIOUS that they appeared to not take Seriously at all..... Until the $£%&% Hits the Fan!

What i mean by that is... IF say ALIEN was NEVER Made, and we had ALIENS with no knowledge/history of Ripleys Prior Plight against the Organism... and IF the Xenomorph was not that Iconic Design by HR Giger then what we could have got would have been NOT too Far from a Starship Troopers type Flick (my opinion)

We have to give Credit to ALIENS and its Queen and Action because this is what had accounted for the Franchise being as Marketable as it was... The Countless Merchandise, Comics, Games, Toys etc etc were all possible due to the more Action Packed ALIENS and the Queen.

Its hard to say IF the Franchise would have been as BIG had we NOT had ALIENS.... based on a single Movie then ALIEN would have been a Cult Hit but i would not think it would have Spawned as Much Merchandise/Marketing or Games, Comics and Toys etc..

So just ALIEN and i am not sure we would have had as Iconic Status....  a ALIEN sequel is something we cant really comment about, because WHO is to know if a Different (None Action, None Queen) Sequel would HAVE or HAD-NOT had the Impact that ALIENS had... we dont know.

What we do know is that ALIENS is the Movie that Most are Familiar with, that leaves the Bigger Impression on Most People (talking in General).

My Issues with ALIENS is not the Movie itself, its just that the Formula is repeated in all of the Media Forms that Followed, most Novels, Comics and Games appear to be in the MOLD of a ALIENS/ALIEN Resurrection...  And so i would have liked to had seen something a BIT Different, which Prometheus appeared to have Attempted..

In a Ideal World.... it would have Been Great that we could have had Multiple Movies released where ONE follows the more Action Packed/Aliens Formula and another tried Something Different.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

May-07-2019 11:19 AM

Awesome Poster in OT by the Way ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

daliens

May-07-2019 12:06 PM

Alien deserved a proper sequel.

Giger should have been more involved 

I regret Ridley Scott was not asked to make the sequel, the producers were seduced by Cameron's queen, which seemed prolific for the sequels, but which I find to be plain stupid. The xenomorph can be eusocial without an egg laying ant queen. I don't see evidence of intelligence for Cameron's aliens, just cheesy plot convenience to make the film build some pathetic climax until the reveal of the queen.

All the Aliens fans protest now if David created the xenomorph because it is no more alien, but they never admit that Aliens destroyed the potential it could have had.

Aliens is so poorly executed that if you play it at a lower speed you will see the cheap costumes of the "xenomorphs".

Regarding character development, it is no better than Prometheus, except Prometheus had a better android. Hudson, Hicks, Apone, Newt, what characters? Oh, I forgot Burke.

Face the reality people, Aliens is a Disney film. Maybe you were excited back then in the 80s because you were young and easily entertained but this film is frustratingly dumb plain.

Like ThoughtDreams nailed it: what you see is what you get. Nothing to talk about later, like the big hit The Predator. 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

dk

May-07-2019 1:55 PM

This forum debated the topic to death a couple years ago. I believe the consensus was that egg morphing would work if a xeno was on its own and had no hive support. The hive idea would work too if there were enough victims to serve as hosts. The general masses didn't even know about egg morphing until post Aliens.

BigDave

May-08-2019 3:37 PM

I watched ALIENS Special Edition last night, and maybe i have been a bit Harsh on ALIENS, in light to how reaction by some Fans in regards to Prometheus had led to them giving us the Mess that Alien Covenant has left us with.

Aliens as a Movie is a Good Action movie, i agree with RS that the Movie and other Action ones released since had gave us Queens and Xenomorphs over and over and over (includes other Media Forms) and that some CHANGE was needed.

Regarding the ALIEN sequel, we have to remember at the Time that RS had loads of Commitments and FOX wanted a Sequel done, and we had the Process that lead to ALIENS and we have to remember at this point Ridley Scott never had much Control over the Franchise, it was the Property of FOX and Hill & Giler had much more say it what to do NEXT.

Regarding the Costumes... i feel Every Movie was flawed in this regard...  Prometheus with Zombie Fifield or Not Great CGI Fifield...  Alien Covenant Effects had flaws, lets not talk about Alien 3...   and ALIEN in some shots the Costume was not so Convincing...

I think looking back INDEED it would have been likely had ALIEN 2 been made then it would likely had taken a much more different route than ALIENS..  Ridley Scott seemed to be wanting to give us a ALIEN World that would have had HR Giger Aesthetic (Aliens had this were Necessary)  a RS continuation would have No-Doubt gone to explore WHERE those Eggs Came from, and likely uncovered the Space Jockey and his Role in all of this.

It maybe would have turned to more of the Unused ideas from Starbeast and gave us HR Giger Inspired Worlds and Technology, Architecture.

But what happened had happened... its the same as some ALIENS Fans were really Bugged (no pun intended) by what Alien 3 had done with Hicks and Newt... and indeed what happened would likely had NOT been what would have happened IF we had Cameron continue with his Sequel... but again there were reasons he could not WORK on the Project and ALIENS Fans have to just Accept what happened had happened. (also not forgetting Miss Weaver wanted Ripley killed off).

These things happen.... not EVERY Movie will please all the Fans... Changes Happen sometimes due to the Directors/Production not being available for when the Studio want another Movie, and sometimes Changes are Forced because of what the Studio (and Producers) want changed.

It is UNLIKELY that Alien Covenant was the Sequel to Prometheus that Ridley Scott had intended...  Its likely if we get another Prequel Continuation it would NOT be quite the route Ridley Scott wanted either.

Everyone has the Right to like or dislike any movie, there are Fans who feel Ridley Scott had made a Hash of Things, and maybe would not object to a ALIEN reboot... some ALIEN Fans maybe would not object to a ALIENS reboot... and some Fans would want to Forget the Prequels even happened.

But we just have to accept them Warts and All.... going a Blomkamp THIS movie never happened route is NOT the way forwards..

Regarding the Egg Morph vs Queen they can Co-Exist in a number of ways that i will leave for another time.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ninXeno426

May-08-2019 6:12 PM

https://youtu.be/Q_kBrGvXmoY

Cameron himself addressed many of these complaints back in 1986. Alien theory agrees that we can have both egg morphing and and hive.

 

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

May-08-2019 6:12 PM

I agree Scott perhaps should have been involved to some degree, but as far as sequels go Aliens was definitely the best approach at the time. Camerons intentions were not to make the same film or even take baby steps but instead a whole new beast. 

A couple months ago I posted a forum regarding whether Alien Isolation would have made a good film or not. I ultimately felt no it wouldn't have been. I bring this up because many Alien fans do feel it is the sequel Alien deserved all along. The issue with Isolation is while the plot works fine for an interactive experience, it follows so many basic beats from Alien that it would have fallen flat on film. It had special order 939,a crew lands on LV 426,discovers the derelict and space jockey etc. In the wrong hands this could have been the sequel we got,a ho hum retread that offered nothing new. Worth noting Alien 3 is often criticized for doing nothing new by imitating Alien.

 

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

May-08-2019 6:35 PM

Side notes: Thank you for the compliment on the topic banner Big Dave, I love fan made posters and that in particular is a favorite.

Iraptus I saw that in one of my many Alien Facebook groups lol,I saw Endgame and enjoyed it but Marvel will never come close to how much I love Alien.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

May-08-2019 6:50 PM

 My beef with David "creating" the xenomorph is not that it seemingly crushes the queen,but that it threw the logic of Prometheus as well as Alien out the door. And that's coming from someone who enjoys Covenant and Prometheus and arguably feels Covenant might be better than Prometheus. I recall Ridley confirming that the LV 426 derelict managed to escape LV 223, and the space jockey chest burster caused it's crash. Then there was all the evidence of a xenomorph outbreak on LV 223.... Covenant discarded all of this.

That being said, between egg morphing,A hive,and black goo,the xenomorph is extremely adaptable to it's environment.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

dk

May-08-2019 6:57 PM

ninXeno426 Personally, I compartmentalize a bit. The Qudrilogy is canon to me regardless of "prequels". I have a "whatever" attitude toward P and AC. Decent movies on their own, but they seem to be getting bogged down too much with lofty and heavy handed ideas. Nothing tops the Quadrilogy for me.

 

daliens

May-09-2019 12:44 AM

While I agree that the Alien life cycle was inspired from the insect world, that wasp that lays its egg into the body of a living host, I still consider the idea of a egg laying queen was forced in by Cameron because he had his marvelous design of her "majesty".

So while in Alien the xenomorph hinted at the insect world, after Aliens there is no doubt it belongs to the insect world.  A space termite that belongs rather to the MiB universe than to the Alien universe.

We lost that catatonic fear, that sheer terror of the xenomorph,  whatever made it the perfect organism was lost in Aliens. You can send the marines straight in the middle of the hive and get away with a few casualties only. The entire hive of the xenomorphs is less dangerous than a group of primates from the Planet of the Apes.

The traditional xenomorph was not good enough to impress anybody, let's make a bigger one that can still fit inside an elevator, but still unable to kick Ripley's ass or at least drag her away into deep space.

As for Cameron's interpretation of how the eggs are made, I can never agree with it. If the Alien was a species in its own right, I prefer O'Bannon's story. For me the eggs are only to keep the facehuggers alive for an indefinite period of time, sort of incubators if you want, the ant looking queen is an unnecessary addition to the Alien world.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Gavin

May-09-2019 8:37 AM

What if...

I have mentioned before my theory that Jordens may have discovered a different set of eggs than that which Kane found. What if the Jordens discovered a lab in the Juggernauts "hammer" arm within which was the Queen and some of her eggs - a variant created by the space jockey before his death (possibly too the cause), that crossed the DNA of the eggs in his cargo hold with that of an insect.

Thoughts_Dreams

May-09-2019 9:02 AM

“So why is Aliens picked on by a certain subset of fans these days?”

Aliens is alright but now it feels like more of an action movie. Alien 3 and 1 have more of the horror thing with people being left alone to battle an enemy that they are not equipped to handle.

I like egg-morphing better since it is more unknown although the queen isn’t a disaster. Cameron did alright with the queen but it could have been better. Aliens is a movie that I have not watched in a long time but I go back to alien and Alien 3 and watch them a bit now and then, they are made in a way that suits me better.

daliens

May-09-2019 12:37 PM

Who can tell what happened to the chestburster/xenomorph that killed Jorden.

Or where did they get the facehuggers in the Hadley's Hope lab from? The derelict? And one of them was surgically removed from a host, really?

How did the xenomorphs captured all the colonists alive for hosts? 

How many colonists were used as hosts and how many xenomorphs were there?

Why were colonists still alive when Sulaco arrived on LV426? Would the xenomorphs risk to have the potential hosts die of old age or of starvation, especially when there was a queen laying eggs?

What were the xenomorphs doing since all the colonists were captured? Hibernating? Keeping busy with architecture? Why would they build such a fantastic nest if the hosts were so limited in supply?

How come they got everyone but they missed Newt?

Why did they run against the bullets? Even a cockroach has an instinct of survival. Why did the xenomorph stopped being a survivor? Because there was an egg laying queen that could replaced them? Like, how many were killed, two hundreds, ok, two hundreds eggs more. No more hosts? Oh, shit.

 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

daliens

May-09-2019 1:06 PM

 Gavin that space jockey has a name: Jim Cameron.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

dk

May-09-2019 1:09 PM

A lot of movies fall apart if too many questions are asked.

daliens

May-09-2019 1:19 PM

For the good movies there is a multitude of answers, theories, heated debates.

For the not so good movies, the what you see is what you get kind, there is only nostalgia. And zippo!

The Alien franchise needs more than action movies, that's what I try to say.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

May-09-2019 2:12 PM

"were not to make the same film or even take baby steps but instead a whole new beast."

For whatever reason, i think ALIENS was a worthy sequel, i know some may feel it was NOT what may have been planned, we need to Understand that ALIEN was a case of more than ONE persons Vision.  It was a amalgamation of ideas.  And so ALIENS did not carry on with O'Bannons ideas and explored the Xenomorph Eggs as LAID... but we need to bare in mind that ALIEN also differed from O'Bannons ideas and what ALIEN left us with was the Space Jockey carrying those Eggs which seemed indicated (confirmed by RS) as Biological Warfare for the Space Jockey... 

Cameron had taken this idea, expanded on the Corporate Greed Angle only adding the Queen over a Egg Morph, we still HAD-NOT known how a Queen could have came to be, and maybe this is SOMETHING a Future Movie could indicate more.    While this was a NEW Direction, and gave us a more Advanced Ants/Termites/Bees/Wasps like outlook on the Xenomorph in HOW it behaved, it never covered its Origins and so it left a lot open to interpretation/speculation.

Who knows what a ALIEN 2 would have been but YEARS after ALIEN, it seemed RS had settled on the Xenomorph being a Bio-Weapon of the Space Jockey, it was only a case of was it something they CREATED, something they had obtained and USED as such or something they obtained and Re-Engineered.     This was a Mystery for Years. (Alien Engineers indicated what this connection was).

ALIENS may have changed the Game a little, it certainly did put its MARK on the Franchise to be as ICONIC as it became, maybe a ALIEN 2 would have also Elevated ALIEN and expanded it?  It depends how they could have taken it and it MAYBE could have been more Interesting but more Complex than what ALIENS was... This is Hindsight.... what happened has happened.

I think that ALIEN is what Elevated ALIENS... as i said before IF say ALIEN was never released and ALIENS was our First Foray into this Universe then i think it would NOT have been as much a HIT to a degree.... the Creature Design and Life-Cycle (Parts of it) are something Quite Different... take away those TWO and your left with more of a Starship Troopers.

ALIEN was iconic because it was the First Time really we saw something so Unique.. again TAKE away the HR Giger Input and Life-Cycle and ALIEN would have been another Sci-Fi B Movie Horror.

so i think ALIEN complemented ALIENS without ALIEN it maybe would not have worked as well, but then without ALIENS i am not sure if the Franchise would have been as well Remembered/Marketable.

Regarding ISOLATION  if we could take the PLOT, the Dialect, Add to it and go back to say 1982 and have this Produced as the ALIEN Sequel i think yeah it would pretty much be like a Re-Tread of ALIEN, but provided they kept the Xenomorph as not being shown as much as in ALIEN ISOLATION then it would have worked...  it certainly takes the Company Greed and Agenda to the NEXT Level.

I think it would have worked... (if we had a Movie and the Game Did-Not Exist)  But such a ALIEN Sequel would be something that they could NOT keep Repeating!

The same thing applies to ALIENS...  Company Discover Derelict, they obtain Eggs and wish to obtain a Queen, we get more Eggs, more Xenomorphs... someone comes in to Save the Day... how many times can you repeat that?

A ALIENS 2 (if we ignore Alien 3) would be like a Blomkamp Alien 5 meets ALIENS Colonial Marines Game!

Which is why i was excited for the Prequels, and applauded how Prometheus tried to do something different, give us a more Space Adventure, than a Horror or Action Trope!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

May-09-2019 2:34 PM

"but that it threw the logic of Prometheus as well as Alien out the door"

I think it fits with Prometheus as far as the Themes, but they could have took the Theme Further by David Creates a Superior Xenomorph Variant but that would not please Fans either ... guess case of wanting cake and eating it.

Regarding ALIEN... yes this route (The Creator) has made the Franchise less ALIEN than what we should have interpreted from when we saw the Derelict and its Contents/Pilot.

Gavin raises a important point!

A long time ago, when looking at Alien DC, for me it seemed that the whole Egg Morph scene made more Sense if this lead to a EGG LAYING Version of the Organism.

I have YET to see any real Proof of HOW the Queen came to be, its something NOT spoon fed to us in the Movies, we could look at it as being like Ants/Bees in how a Queen can come about which makes the Xenomorph become more of a Alien Species than a Engineered Weapon.

Prometheus has some clues, Alien Engineers more so that the Xenomorph was Re-Engineered from some Organism that the Engineers had encountered... we can speculate HOW this Organism would have Procreated.

Alien Engineers indicates to us that there are Various Cargo Holds that CONTAIN different Versions of the Xenomorph and so when looking at this then YES! as GAVIN pointed out the Jordons could have came across a Different Variant with a Different Procreation Route.

THIS^^^ Kind of Plot that can allow us to GO BACK to the Derelict and introduce something different... another Variant, with a more Disturbing Procreation and a Movie that can have a Mix of Action and Horror.

Why cant ONE variant Procreate like how the Pred-Alien did from AVPR by that Implant Embryos Directly, thus NO-NEED for a Face Hugger.  Another VARIANT infects Hosts so they either Give Birth to Face Hugger like Organisms (like Dr Shaw did) or if a Female they Give Birth to a Egg, that then Grows..

We could even have Eggs be it laid by a Organism, or Birthed from a Host or Morphed from a Host, and regardless these hold a Smaller Version of the Organism... thus NO-FACE HUGGER Stage...

I am sure we could think of even more Bizarre and Horrific Procreation Routes, if we put our mind to it!

A Derelict/Egg Silo with Multiple Cargo Holds can allow for this, a ONE Cargo Hold but LV-223 has different versions of the Bio-Weapon in the Various Complexes likewise allows us to explore Variants of the Xenomorph.

How many ALIEN 3, ALIEN Isolation can we churn out?  how many ALIEN Resurrection or Blomkamp Alien 5 could we churn out (to be fair both seem to be trying to offer something a bit different).  A Direct ALIENS 2 however would have the Potential to just be ALIENS Colonial Marines the Movie!

I think you can go the ACTION and then HORROR Trope maybe 1-2 Times Each before its a case of BEEN DONE TO DEATH!

The Beast is NOT Cooked... but there is only so many ways you can Cook a Egg!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

May-09-2019 2:48 PM

"A lot of movies fall apart if too many questions are asked."

Certainly DK

I could attempt to give a Plausible Answer to those Questions but it would be a BIG READ... and then just my interpretation... and who is to say if Cameron and Co even had it as thought out as i could attempt to explain it.

By the same Token... i could raise a Number of Questions in regards to ALIEN in a similar way..

For Example.... (Theatrical Release)

Why was the Xenomorph just going around Killing all the Crew? is that all it was Intended to do?

Why did the Xenomorph just await (on the Narcissus ) for Ripley instead of track her down being as though its Faster and Stealthy?

But i will be honest, i can come up with answers to those, and they had explanations given by (other Cuts) and RS comments... and their are NOT as many Questions Raised from ALIEN.

I may at another time give my answers to the Questions you put down daliens but its just a case that ALIEN was the movie that was least flawed in this respect...  seems EVERY movie after, has many Questions we could be asking!

How the Eggs got on the Sulaco being a Starter for ALIEN 3 etc

Perhaps the TRUE answer to all of them would be PLOT Convenience/Direction.

Which with ALIEN the reveal of ASH was a Master-Stroke Really!  No Ash and Special Order 937 and if the Crew was not too Stupid or listened to Ripley, then we would have had NO Movie!   Ash was a CLEVER Plot Convenience to get the Organism on the Ship ;)

"The Alien franchise needs more than action movies, that's what I try to say."

I agree, but some like the Action you need to find the Balance or make Multiple Movies that can cater for a different take on the whole Situation.

Say... If ALIEN Isolation and Colonial Marines never existed.

And instead we had TWO movies (released 5-10 years ago) ... a Alien Sequel thats similar to Isolation, and a Aliens Sequel thats similar to a Colonial Marines.

I dont think FOX had the Courage or Finances to risk the release of TWO different movies within a span of 5 years...  they may have considered it, but then they decided to do a AVP, and then the Prequels.

Disney may have taken this into consideration... but the Box Office of Alien Covenant would make them take a LONG LONG Hard think about it.....

look at their Reaction to Han Solo and then Canceling a number of Planned Spin Offs.... If they can do that to Star Wars... they could be FAR more Cautious with ALIEN.

Make a Movie to Please Fans?

Hard Task...

Risk making TWO Movies to please Fans and offer something different to each other....  Big Risk!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

May-09-2019 3:06 PM

When the movies were made, they likely didn't think the franchise would become what it has and maybe didn't scrutinize every little plot point. 

This has been discussed before so it starts to feel like this lol:

 

ninXeno426

May-09-2019 8:36 PM

A lot of movies fall apart if too many questions are asked.

Totally agree. This past week I watched Prometheus,Alien Covenant, and Alien. During Alien I stopped myself and asked "Why doesn't the xenomorph hop out and mercilessly murder Ripley on the Narcissus?".... then dismissed it because who cares? No need to question the logic of everything.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

dk

May-09-2019 8:57 PM

Back in the day before Blue Ray, DVD, VHS, Cable and Betamax, we pretty much saw a movie like Alien in the theater and that was all you got- no rewinds, special features or bathroom breaks. If you wanted more, you had to pony up more cash for another ticket for the privilege.

These days we can analyze everything to death. I am guilty of partaking but prefer the latter.

Suck it you Goll Darn Whippersnappers!

daliens

May-09-2019 11:27 PM

"Why did the Xenomorph just await (on the Narcissus ) for Ripley instead of track her down being as though its Faster and Stealthy?"

"Why doesn't the xenomorph hop out and mercilessly murder Ripley on the Narcissus?"

I guess you have to ask the producers who wanted Ripley alive, the last survivor of the Nostromo.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Gavin

May-10-2019 10:11 AM

Here some food for thought...

#1 - James Cameron gets the blames for introducing the Queen and insect lifecycle to the Alien. But is he completely to blame.

Production for The Terminator was delayed because of Arnold Schwarzenegger's prior commitment to Conan The Destroyer. Cameron used this time to pen the script for Rambo: First Blood II and refine The Terminator's script. Cameron also met with David Giler (and Walter Hill) to discuss ideas for what would become Aliens. From this meeting, Cameron then penned the script for Aliens and developing the concept for the Queen. The question is this... did Giler tell Cameron about the deleted egg morphing scene?

Considering that Giler clashed with Fox executives and even sued Fox prior to Aliens being greenlit any possibility for a Ridley Scott Alien 2 (Scott instead worked on Blade Runner) went down the pan. Together with Giler's rewriting of Dan O'Bannon's script, and that during the production of Alien many of O'bannon's ideas that Giler omitted in his rewrite were re-incorporated into production, it is highly unlikely that Giler would have told Cameron about the filmed, but deleted egg morphing scene. Being a fan of the first film had Cameron known of the scene before production on Aliens began, he likely would have incorporated the idea into his script in some way. Cameron may have found out about the scene once production began, but by that point it would have been too much to rework the script and schedule to incorporate the theme into his production, considering how much of the movies third act involved the Queen.

#2 - There is no Alien franchise.

The biomechanical appearance of the Alien and egg morphing lifecycle were introduced in, but only ever appeared in Alien.

The more organic (skeletal in Aliens, fleshy in all movies afterward) appearance and the insect lifecycle were introduced in Aliens and used in all movies since.

Alien is one off, Aliens was a sequel based off the theatrical version of Alien, Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection continued the appearance and lifecycle introduced in Aliens, therefore they are part of the Aliens franchise.

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