Close
Trending Articles
Upcoming Alien Titles
Upcoming Alien Titles
Alien Movies
Alien Movies
Featured Content
Scified Network
The Xenomorph was not alien, but created by the Company

The Xenomorph was not alien, but created by the Company

3 Upvotes29 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
Forum Topic

daliens

Apr-07-2019 6:02 PM

I was not aware that in one of the early drafts of Alien, before Ridley Scott joined the team, the spores were not of alien origin, but only biological weapons created by the Company, thus making the crew of Nostromo nothing more than test subjects for the lethality of those weapons.

Fortunately the newly recruited director, Ridley Scott, decided to maintain the alien origin from Dan O'Bannon's script.

I found the excerpts of that early draft on Strange Shapes and I will quote it below.

Maybe it was discussed here before and I missed it, but that would explain the turn in Alien Covenant, to have David as the creator of the Xenomorph. Was Ridley Scott taking a road he refused to take 40 years ago, by making the Xenomorph a product of the Company, indirectly through David?

What are your thoughts on that?

Here is the early script I mentioned above:

"At one point in the film’s development, just prior to Ridley Scott’s recruitment as director, producers Walter Hill and David Giler presented a version of Alien without the pyramid or the alien derelict. “We believed,” Hill told Film International in 2004, “that if you got rid of a lot of the junk -they had pyramids and hieroglyphics in the planetoid, a lot of von Däniken crap- that what you would have left would be a very good, very primal space story.”

However, Hill and Giler did not merely remove the pyramids and hieroglyphics, but they replaced them as well. For this brief iteration of the script, the Alien spore was housed in a man-made construct known only as the ‘Cylinder’, and the derelict craft was a downed human ship, a “warmed over L-52,” according to Dallas. Inside the ship lies its human pilot, referred to by Dallas as “one dead space jockey,” (a slang term which stuck around to be bestowed upon the mysterious creature.)

gh

Kane, Dallas and Lambert discover the derelict, which in this version of the script is a craft of human origin. “No signs of life,” continues Dallas, “no lights… no movement… “
A hatchway on the ship is open, and the trio venture inside…

Inside they find signs of a gunfight, an 'urn', and then the derelict ship's dead pilot...

Inside they find signs of a gunfight, and later, within the cockpit, they find an ‘urn’, along with the derelict ship’s dead pilot. Dallas spots the SOS beacon and turns it off. “One dead space jockey,” he concludes, “no sign of the other crew members; the old L-52’s generally went up with a compliment of seven…”
“They’re probably scattered out on this plain,” Lambert interjects.
Dallas can only offer a thoughtful “Maybe.”

Ash cuts in on the conversation, and tells them via radio that he can see something of an “irregular shape”. The three leave the derelict and venture out again into the storm, eventually stumbling across the mysterious object: a “red cylinder on the horizon. One hundred meters high.”

The Nostromo crew find the 'Cylinder', a man-made construct that houses the alien spore. As it turns out, the spore is in fact not alien, but a biological weapon created by the Company. The crew have stumbled on a research facility, and are now new test subjects, all to be observed by Ash.

The Nostromo crew find the ‘Cylinder’, a man-made construct that houses the alien spore. As it turns out, the spore is in fact not alien, but instead is a biological weapon created by the Company. The crew have stumbled on a research facility, and are now its new test subjects, with all the slaughter to be observed and reported by Ash.

The Cylinder survives only in one piece of Ron Cobb’s conceptual art, which shows the short-lived construct looming behind the derelict “L-52”. In this version of the story, the Alien is a bioweapon engineered by the malevolent Company. The Nostromo crew are re-routed to be used as specimens to test the creature’s lethality. When Ron Shusett presented his and O’Bannon’s original script to the newly recruited Ridley Scott, Scott decided that they should go back to the original plan. Though the alien elements would go on to persist all the way to the final movie, the separate pyramid/silo, ultimately, would not."

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

29 Responses to The Xenomorph was not alien, but created by the Company

dk

Apr-07-2019 8:28 PM

That is an interesting read how the concept evolved. I wonder if Giger used L-52 as a basic template for the Derelict. 

It looks a bit like a nightmarish version.

daliens

Apr-07-2019 9:02 PM

It seems to me that Ridley Scott returned to some original concepts from the earlier drafts:

- the space jockey is a human(oid) in a suit

- the bioweapon research facility the engineers had on LV223 is similar to the one the Company built, illustrated by the "Cylinder" above

- the Enginners set their bioweapon research facility on another planet than their home planet (4)

- the Xenomorph is a bioweapon created by the Company (David) and not of alien origin

- the Company purposely re-routed the ship to use the crew as test subjects for their new bioweapon (a little stretch here with the neutrino blast that finally made the crew aware of the signal sent by David - Country roads)

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

daliens

Apr-07-2019 9:07 PM

Was all the stuff about the Enginners and the black goo and the gardeners of space just flavour added to the old story? 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Leto

Apr-08-2019 1:46 AM

Blomkamp's Alien 5 - it's a nostalgia.

But.

Ridley's Prometheus and Covenant - not a nostalgia. It's a "return to original ideas".

Double standards.

BigDave

Apr-08-2019 2:22 AM

Well thats a interesting FIND!

I think this explains the Origins of ASH the Synthetic, and when Ridley Scott chose to do O'Banon's idea, it seems that they had taken some elements from Hill and Giler's idea certainly by adding ASH and the Companies Motives.

Could Ridley Scott had looked back at this other draft and taken some of its ideas to present us with the David Creator Angle?   Or did Walter Hill and David Giler have some input of ideas on HOW to change the direction and discussed these with Ridley Scott?

Seems quite Plausible to me. (The OT that is).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Apr-08-2019 4:56 AM

Interesting! That’s probably why they can’t make up their minds. :) On the one hand, we have the mutagen, created aeons ago. We have the mural of a xenomorph creature, and we have the deacon. On the other hand, we have David . . .

Gavin

Apr-08-2019 5:57 AM

Considering David Giler's past and uncharacteristic silence around Prometheus and Alien: Covenant, it would not surprise me if he was implicit in the new narrative direction of having the Xenomorph being a human (via David; named after Giler) creation.

Giler's past interference, in summary...

With Alien Giler claimed he rewrote Dan O'Bannon's, script when all he did was ad Ash, change the character names and, as mentioned above remove the alien from Alien. Although he was able to claim ownership of the script he was successful in acquiring the production rights to the script and its characters. He then tried to keep O'Bannon off the movies set, despite that in addition to the script O'Bannon was key in bringing onboard Ron Cobb, Jean Giraud, Chris Foss, and H. R. Giger, as well as being key in the finished puppet used for the Facehugger. Rumors also suggest that Giler attempted rewrites to the script during production, infuriating Ridley Scott and the cast, and enraging O'Bannon.

With Aliens James Cameron wrote and directed the movie, filming it in London, England. Giler accepted Cameron's script before approaching either Fox, whereas O'Bannon was rumored to have never been told of Cameron's script until the movie was in production. The relaxed British work ethic and Giler's attempts to "amend" the script ignited Camerons' infamous short fuse creating much tension between Cameron and Giler.

With Alien 3 Giler wrote a script which was rejected by Fox. Giler then approached a plethora of writers and directors, in turn rejecting each of their ideas until Fox demanded production begin. With the release date fast approaching Giler essentially merged all of the script ideas he had rejected together and hired David Fincher to direct the movie. Fincher was then pushed to breaking point with constant rewrites by Giler, a dwindling budget and the pressure of following Alien and Aliens. Inevitably Giler's incompetence drove Fincher to abandon, and later disown the movie.

With Alien: Resurrection Joss Whedon wrote a script centered around Newt, but was forced to rewrite it when Giler thought it prudent for Sigourney Weaver to return as Ripley. Whedon has repeatedly stated he hated the rewrite and preferred his original concept. After the movies release and the mixed response it garnered from fans Giler distanced himself from the movie claimed the first three movies where "our" movies and that Resurrection was the studios' movie.

With the AvP movies Giler mostly remained quiet, but after AvP: Requiem's negative reviews he claimed he had nothing to do with the movies. However, being the owner of the production rights AvP and AvP: Requiem could not have been made without Giler (and Gordon Carroll and Walter Hill) allowing Fox the use of the Alien character.

BigDave

Apr-08-2019 8:49 AM

I would not really call it Double Standards, while trying to be Respectful i think with the Prequels these are a case of covering something that had NOT been covered before in the Franchise.

This retaining to the Space Jockey/Race and Xenomorph Origins so i would say they are not any Nostalgia but just a subject you have to cover by doing a Prequel Series to touch upon those things that were NEVER explored within the Franchise.

I would say also that using any ideas that NEVER made it into any previous movies but where ideas in Drafts or Concepts that never made, would also not be a case of Nostalgia

Nostalgia is the Love, Enjoyment and Memory of something from the Past that holds a Great Deal of Enjoyment and Memories. 

So in context to a Movie Franchise its returning to what Fans Loved the most about By-Gone movies, and sometimes the Original Movies Formula is what works, so sometimes its best NOT to steer to far from it...    You can try and change it a little but then this can end up not working out such as say the Robocop Re-boot which tried to Re-Introduce the Franchise... some Fans were Not Happy, and the Movie certainly was not as Good as the First and this is a Problem with Nostalgia sometimes its HARD to recapture the Magic of the Originals..   and not many attempts become successful...   Blomkamp is working on a Robocop Sequel to the Originals, bringing back the Same Cast... again i think this is Nostalgia Kicking in, the same can be said for Ghost Busters, the Soft Reboot with Female Ghost Busters did-not go well and so they are now going to consider a Direct Ghost Busters 3 to bring the Gang Back!

I am not so sure these would be any good, but certainly Nostalgia can make MONEY!

In context to ALIEN 5 i would not say that Bringing the Xenomorph back would be Nostalgia its a Pivotal Part of the Franchise, and like Gavin had said, the Beast does not need to be Tied Down with Stories about Creation and Gods...  i think there was NO harm in this as far as expanding a Franchise, but i feel any ALIEN movie would have to be more about the Xenomorph and some of those Elements from the Prequels have become a bit of a Distraction.

I think having another Ripley ALIEN Movie would be a bit of Nostalgia thats just my Opinion, but i also think its something that could make more MONEY..   I just think you have to have the Emphasis on the Xenomorph, the Creators of it (a little) be that Engineers or AI, and also about the Company but the Main Thing has to be about the Xenomorph.   I dont think the Franchise has to be Tied Down to being about Ripley... leave that for Star Wars...

That being said i think a Return to Ripley could work, if we carry on from Alien Resurection and maybe get 1-2 Movies from this...  but i think you also have to introduce something NEW and different while also retain a good share of the Xenomorph.

My Concern for doing a Bring the Gang back ALIENS sequel would be that IF they do this and the Movie FLOPS! then what do Disney do then... as this would be like Playing your Trump Card Early.  And they would be in a Pickle!

The second and main Concern is IF such a route went ahead and it did WELL then we could get Ripley ALIENS 3, 4, 5 etc etc.  And also IF they (Disney) see that Ret-con of a Movie (Alien 3) works well, its WHERE do they STOP!

Reboot Prometheus 2, bring back Dr Shaw and KILL off David?

Reboot Prometheus and have some Elephantine Tapir like Alien Species!

How long then before say Cameron or Blomkamps could be like LETS Reboot Ridley Scotts ALIEN...

Personally.... i think the Prequels could be finished in the Form of a Book!

I would want to see another ALIEN Movie Franchise that would be about the Xenomorph but can then explore other things in the sequels... that WILL-NOT be about or have Ripley or David!

I would also think a Literal ALIEN 5 could work if its done right, and explore the aftermath to Alien Resurrection.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Leto

Apr-08-2019 9:07 AM

Personally.... i think the Prequels could be finished in the Form of a Book!

I would also think a Literal ALIEN 5 could work if its done right, and explore the aftermath to Alien Resurrection.

 

AR sequel already investigated - book Original Sin. But for prequels need a film.

BigDave

Apr-08-2019 9:11 AM

Certainly Gavin you have to wonder how much of a impact had David and Walter had on the Franchise, including the Prequels... sometimes TOO MANY Cooks.. Spoil the Broth!

And IF they have to be approached for the ALIEN Formula to be used, then even a Blomkamps Project may have to have some Input from them in order to use the Xenomorph/Weyland-Yutani and Ripley etc.

Which could affect things really, another thing is the HR Giger Estate, that limits some things also, because certain things may need their Go Ahead... or require paying for.

To be FAIR if we get a Alien 5 Blomkamp, then i would NOT right it off, i could see it as a Alternative Story like AVP and try and Enjoy it for what it is. Which i think its what Blomkamp Intended... so we get to ALIENS and then there is that FORK in the Road to TWO alternative versions of Events After!

It did appear that maybe they could PASS THE TORCH to Newt, but i Fear that Miss Weaver would want to play Ripley even if she hits her 80's and uses a Power-Loader to aid with her Mobility Issues LOL

I dont think a Character should be Bigger than the Franchise, even STAR WARS showed this... but then it did UPSET a lot of Fans who maybe would have liked to see Han, Leia and Luke ride off (in the Falcon) into the Sun Set at the end of EP9 or would that Continue to EP12?  Nope you have to introduce something NEW which SW EP7 attempted, but i FEAR that EP9 will be a Nostalgia Road Trip and be about the Original Characters, taking the Emphasis off Rey and Kylo Ren!

I think in Hindsight YES they could have done a different Alien 3 all those years back, and eventually Pass the Torch to Newt.   I would watch a Blomkamp Project if its done well, (well still watch it anyway) but i FEAR that the intention would be 2-3 movies that center around Ripley again, but my Main Problem with going for Alternative Sequels... would be what if they then give us Alternative Prequels, or a Alternative Alien!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-08-2019 9:17 AM

I will have to look into that Novel... i was not aware of ALIENS: Original Sin... i kind of dont follow Novels too much, only Official Novels for the Movies. 

I think it wont hurt to explore some of these and read them.

I think the BIG QUESTION would be what route do they take with the Alien Franchise....  the Prequels do need Finishing but its HOW, as your not going to please every Fan.  And i feel a lot of the other elements will be CAST OUT in order to concentrate on the Xenomorph... i think you need to have it a little bit, it depends how many Prequels you do, if its ONLY ONE then i guess the Xenomorph role has to be considerable, but this may have to come at the cost of other Elements.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

Apr-08-2019 9:23 AM

Sorry Mr Hill, but the only thing truly remarkable (alluring, unique, etc..) in Alien is the von Daniken "crap", at least imho.  What other movies written by him do people remember now? The Warriors,  The Driver, or Streets of Fire? Yeah sure the latter was ripped off by Capcom when making the beat-em up Final Fight and that is why I knew it and 30 somethings know it. Who has seen his latest movie The assignment? It has Sigourney in it...

On the we can say the re-write is Alex Jones crap, with the red silo being a giant lip stick which "turns the friggin' frogs, oooops aliens, gay"... do you understand. If you don't know the reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JRLCBb7qK8

BigDave

Apr-08-2019 9:39 AM

"The Xenomorph was not alien, but created by the Company"

Back to the OT... i think yeah maybe they can RUN with some of these ideas as far as the Xenomorph goes, there is a bit to FLESH-OUT and cover from Davids Experiments, that lead to Special Order-937 and WHY they want the Xenomorph.  I think such a PLOT could Bum-Out some Fans, as certainly i feel a Majority wanted the Xenomorph to be Ancient, some even not liking HOW it was a Creation of the Engineers and would have liked to had seen the Xenomorph as a Ancient Species the Engineers tried to and FAILED to Harness!

So on the ONE-HAND we had this Draft/Idea of Giler and Hill that the OT has indicated.

But then we also have the ORIGINAL idea from Dan O'Bannon which indicated a Ancient Alien Species, that had disappeared leaving behind their Spore/Egg stage of their Life Cycle, that a other Giant Alien Species had came across and attempted to Study (well take back to their Ship) we could speculate that this Giant Race are our Space Jockey, and maybe this PLOT could be something to expand upon.

Certainly the Prequels indicated similar, in which the Engineers had encountered something they experimented on to then lead to the Various Experiments on LV-223 (Alien Engineers even indicating they Re-Engineered a Organism to create 8 different Weaponized Variants).

I think thats a Avenue to explore... either introduction of a Alien Species that has a Bio-Mechanical Atheistic and indicate HOW/WHY they had a connection to the Space Jockey...   or even IF they show us the Engineers Re-Engineered the Experiments on LV-223 from some Organism that is just as Parasitic and Animalistic as the Xenomorph... then i think they could introduce a Intelligent Species WHO had Created the Said Organism that the Engineers Encountered and Re-Engineered.

I think any such path would still not please some Fans, because it kind of Limits the Xenomorph to just being a Created/Engineered Organism and not some Natural Ancient Organism.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

setaverde

Apr-08-2019 8:54 PM

You ONLY have One movie ready to go and it's 'alien...rebirth' (don't like 'awakening'). An alien  movie is much more than a movie. it's an expantion and connection of the Ridley Scott's universe (Blade Runner and alien movies). Ridley Scott is not eternal and This is an oportunity of a lifetime to all the people of Disney and fox that love movies and an incredible chance to make history, allowing that we can watch One last time his vision of a world with a Monster like alien. His movies Will be watched by audiences in the Next 200 yearS, at least. He is One of the greatest. I think he tried to imitate on some way the Kubrick style in the prequels, leaving lots of ideas incepted in other ideas, creating infinite conjectures to unify the story as a all. That's why i'm here with you, guys. I love the flaws and the errors of his movies, as much as i love the perfection of his art on filming, a neo- realistic expressionist style. With alien covenant, he honored the gothic vision of h.r. giger, in a biological way. The androids are like wet dreams (maybe they are the result of the biomechanical vision of h.r. giger) that represent the masculine empowerment of Ridley Scott and h. r. giger Over women. The alien is the instrument of death, the weapon used by filmmakers and creators that love to express their arts through murders. Ah, the question of ages, do humans need to love death to enjoy life?

For me , Ridley Scott solved this Simple equation,

Alien = Fear.

He needs to solve it One more time. 

dk

Apr-08-2019 9:39 PM

The Xenomorph was not alien, but created by the Company.

Then the 1979 movie and the franchise would be called The Company? Yeah, that would probably anger almost the entire fanbase.

Glad we have what we have.

daliens

Apr-09-2019 12:20 AM

And all thanks to Ridley Scott!

He is the one who chose H.R. Giger for the design of Alien, Space Jockey and the derelict.

He deserves to complete the prequels!

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Leto

Apr-09-2019 1:56 AM

Gavin

 

Thanks for the research. I guessed about this, but you accumulated all this in one good comment.

 

Should we look at Covenant (and possibly AC2) as a project of Giler, not Ridley? All doubtful ideas of Covenant it's not a great vision of Ridley, but Giler's odious thoughts?

 

BigDave

 

You often mention Lovecraft in alien context. And you right about this. I mean - Alien is a cosmic horror, unknown and unknowable creature. But put Alien as semi-human creation, it turns into a space horror. Prometheus save the cosmic horror element, and maybe the next film show to us Engineers with their own aliens versus David's creatures. Main thing - Engineers should not take and upgrade David's aliens, because in this way persists the semi-human nature of Alien.

Gavin

Apr-09-2019 3:27 AM

@ setaverde and daliens,

Sorry but Ridley has less of a claim to the Alien franchise than Giler does. While Giler (and Hill, Carroll passed in 2005) holds the production rights to the characters courtesy of his alleged "rewrites", Giler has proved both within and without the Alien franchise to be one of the worst creative minds in Hollywood. But considering the fortune he has amassed from the movies and licensing rights (for games, comics, toys, models, etc.), I suspect he couldn't care less.

As for Ridley - yes he persuaded Fox to use Giger's designs, but it was O'Bannon who brought Giger to the table, having worked with Giger previously on Alejandro Jodorowsky's ill-fated Dune (this is also where O'Bannon met Giraud and Foss, he met Cobb on Star Wars).

Alien was Scott's second movie, and a million miles away from his debut The Duellists. reports at the time (that seems to no longer be mentioned) claimed that Ridley was shy and lacked authority on set, while it has also been widely reported that contributions to the script by Scott were shot rightfully shot down, such as the infamous twist he proposed whereby we hear Ripley's message being spoken by the Alien. Furthermore, Scott was far from Fox's first choice for directing the movie; all previous directors they had approached turned the movie down.

Next look at Scott's filmography. Admittedly he knows how to frame a shot, especially ones with expansive landscapes and interiors but time and again it has been shown that his creative ideas are met with a mixed response from fans - Hannibals ending, Prometheus' over ambiguous creationism, Alien: Covenants retcon of the Aliens creation, etc. Ridley has also shown a tendency to favour visuals over character development and narrative logic, with many of his movies featuring "faux pas" any other director would have corrected in reshoots or left on the editing room floor - the difference of scale in the space jockey room, a character in Noah cursing "Jesus, the numerous edits of Blade Runner" etc.

If he can bring together the fandom and retain the mystery and threat Alien gave us then I would say let Ridley return one last time. But, considering how bloated he made Prometheus with its ambiguity and needless grandeur, and then his evident bowing to social media and studio pressure with Alien: Covenant, together with his need to make Michael Fassbender the new supervillain of the Alien franchise, I would actually prefer it if he handed the reins to someone else while remaining on board as an executive producer.

daliens

Apr-09-2019 7:45 AM

Gavin

Do you mean Noah by Darren Aronofsky? Ridley Scott was doing Exodus: Gods and Kings then.

I believe it matters less that O'Bannon brought Giger to the table, was Giger's work used for Dune? No, that film was not made. It was the shy and lacking authority, as you say, Ridley Scott who had decided that Giger had to design the Alien and everything else related. And it is only Ridley Scott who maintained some Giger aesthetics in his films for the franchise (later thanks to Dane Hallett and Matt Hatton).

Regarding "the infamous twist he proposed whereby we hear Ripley's message being spoken by the Alien", it was shot down probably because he had to keep Ripley alive (then what films would be JC famous for now: Terminator, Titanic and Avatar). But how this idea sucked back in 1979 and it was so greatly received and memorable in Alex Garland's 2018 Annihilation? I wonder why many Alien fans see Alex Garland able to be at the helm of a future Alien film if a dead bear animated by an alien organism can reproduce human voice?

Not to mention, as a distraction, the ultimate Predator using the voice translator before the forest hunt in Shane Black's masterpiece, The Predator. I didn't see any objections to that.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

ignorantGuy

Apr-09-2019 8:25 AM

@Gavin, after seeing Jodorowsky's Holy Mountain, I think the true visionary in the failed Dune was not O'Bannon or Giger but Jodorowsky himself. I could only imagine what he could have cooked up with someone like Carlos Huante (for me the most original of the artists working for AC, Haag being too generic and Hallett trying too hard to be Giger).

All R Scott's movies have blunders, the one you mentioned plus turkeys in Medieval Spain before the discovery of the Americas (in 1492) or the total misunderstanding of the gladiatorial games in Gladiator. But I like Prometheus exactly because of it's ambiguity and grandeur. In today's world of endless super-hero stuff (I'm on Judy Foster's side here and if you want someone to blame for the ending of Hannibal is her not RS) such thing is ultra-rare. 

But I am not considering myself a fan, just a regular guy with money to spare. Do we even know how large is the need for creature features these days? Even a highly praised (albeit very gimmicky ) movie like A Quiet Place made about 350 mils, so a block buster franchise could not even be sustainable.

ignorantGuy

Apr-09-2019 9:24 AM

daliens You seem to have not understood Annihilation at all. The whole story is an allegory about dealing with pain and that particular character is a stand-in for being stuck and consumed by it. And even literally, the bear was not dead, it's dna was fused with the woman's and the only thing that remained of her was the dying scream which the replaced the bear's growl. There was no indication that it used it for hunting.

As for him being it the Alien universe, I wish he would do his own thing.

daliens

Apr-09-2019 10:38 AM

ignorantGuy thanks for enlightening me, I must admit I was dozing off before and after the bear scene. I might give it another try.

I mentioned the bear screaming with a human voice for the effect it had on audience because I believe having the alien imitating human voice at the right moment can add something terrifying to it. Probably this was intended by Ridley Scott back in 1979. That effect was later used by Predators and it was not bad.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Gavin

Apr-09-2019 1:48 PM

@ daliens,

Predators have been mimicking human speech since the 1987 original, well before The Predator, which is far from a masterpiece - in fact IMO it is the worst of the franchise (even if you include the AvP's).

As for Alex Garland's Annihilation, that movie was needlessly over-metaphorical, I would even say arty-farty; if you know my meaning. I love ambiguity as much as BigDave, but some writers and directors use it to cover up the lack of an actual coherent narrative and IMO Garland is one of them.

...

What my TLDR reply meant to say was that Ridley Scott is not and should not be the only person to determine the future of the Alien franchise. He doesn't even care for the franchises title character. I'm not saying we should all jump on the Neill Blomkamp bandwagon, but I fell after Prometheus and Alien: Covenant Ridley (and probably Giler too) is so adamant to remain at the franchises helm that he will cockblock any and all ideas he doesn't agree with, whether they be better than what he has brought to the table or not.

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed Prometheus but I feel Ridley is now drawing parallels with George Lucas during the Star Wars prequel trilogy era - the scripts and direction should have given to someone more capable.

daliens

Apr-09-2019 3:15 PM

Gavin

I believe after Alien Covenant Ridley Scott is very down to earth and he feels responsible for the fate of the franchise's title character. He felt the future was in limbo and he said it was a pitty not to continue because Alien could be as great a franchise as Star Wars.

Probably he thinks his role in the franchise is sealed and that is the reason he will direct Raised by Wolves, a story somehow similar to what he planned for the Covenant sequel.

I don't think he would block any good ideas or that he even has the power to do so. When he was still working on Covenant, yes, things were different, but still he did not have absolute power, that's why Covenant is hardly a sequel to Prometheus. Almost everything changed in between and it did not seem to have been planned as such during filming Prometheus. 

Was it Giler or other tough sons-of-bitches, or mostly the negative reaction from the fanbase, we don't know. Certainly Ridley Scott could have had different views for Prometheus 2.

In my opinion they should complete the sequels. If the choose a reboot, we would be talking here for years about what Covenant 2 could have been.

I agree the script should be carefully penned, to at least try to bring together the fanbase and answer what it is safe to be answered, leave it a mystery or subject for future films what cannot be properly solved in one film.

Ridley Scott might have created a chaos with the prequels, but it is also a fertile chaos, full of possibilities for new stories to emerge, he did not block any way out. He did not leave us in a dessert.

There is nothing in the dessert, and no man needs nothing.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Thoughts_Dreams

Apr-10-2019 8:36 AM

“As it turns out, the spore is in fact not alien, but instead is a biological weapon created by the Company.”

Wow! That idea is even worse than David creating it. Sure Weyland Yutani are sons of bitches but do they really have to be behind everything? I am glad that they just used the idea of the company wanting it for bio-weapons.

It kind of depends as far as nostalgia goes, it depends on your reason to include it. If you do it because you want it to be like before then yeah it is nostalgia but if you use it as an an idea of “that is interesting since it might develop the story” then it is not.

As far as Kylo and Rey I am not interested, I am only in it for Luke. (OT, I know)

Not interested in another Ripley movie, it is time to move on.

Having it created by the Engineers would at least be better and not tied to humans. If you say that the Engineers found it and developed it then it would leave the origins a mystery because we would not know where it originated.

Gavin: Yeah I have heard about the idea of the Alien speaking with Ripley’s voice. I am not sure if it is true or not (I take it as hear-say until I get something confirmed) but that idea is lame. Ridley is very good at visuals but he should stay far away from the story, otherwise it will be crap. Not sure if it was his idea that David created it but that idea is bad no matter who came up with it.

He was fairly new as a director when he made alien (1979) so I wonder how much of a say that he had. Now he has worked a lot and can decide more but back then it was probably different. Maybe he could be a producer but not a director, and keep him far away from the story otherwise it will be a “I love David”-movie which is effed up. Not sure how much of AC that was because of the studio and how much that was because of Ridley but his ideas did not make it better, if I put it that way.

BigDave

Apr-24-2019 12:16 AM

I will reply to some interesting things latter..

For now i will add i have read yesterday the Hill, Giler Alien Draft and i see a High % of this Story is WHAT we got in Alien, as far as how much % of that Draft is ALIEN.. the main differences being the Replacement of the Company Bio-Weapon, and Dead Human and Human Ship.

With HR Gigers Derelict and Space Jockey and Xenomorph Designs... apart from this, the Red Cylinder Draft is basically the ALIEN we got.

So its no wonder that Giler and Hill get a good credit for the Movies...  their Influence on the Draft that had most % used for the movie is there to be seen...    We still have to credit O'Bannon (original idea and Organism Life-Cycle)  and HR Giger (the awesome design we got in the Movie)  though.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

daliens

Apr-24-2019 12:27 AM

Correct, BigDave.

If Giler and Hill still have the same % of influence on Alien prequels should we be so surprised that David created the xenomorph? That is exactly going to the back door of Giler and Hill's original idea for Alien.

This gives me some hope for a sequel to Alien Covenant. 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Leto

Apr-24-2019 1:53 AM

If David (or Walter) get chestburster this will be the greatest film ever.

Gavin

Apr-24-2019 3:50 AM

David Giler's vision that the Alien was created by the company was rightfully shot down when they made the original Alien.

Giler's rewrites of Dan O'Bannon's script were done for one reason only, so that Giler could claim ownership of the script, the characters depicted therein and the production rights to Alien and subsequent movies using said characters, This he was successful in doing as Brandywine Productions (Giler, Hill and the late Carroll's production company) holds the production rights to Alien, and have lived off the profits ever since.

However, Giler's rewrites were superficial at best - he changed character names, eliminated the alien origins of the creature and added corporate conspiracy through the addition of Ash. The name changes were cosmetic, the change of the aliens' origins was reinstated back to Dan O'Bannon's original vision during production, and the inclusion of corporate conspiracy, although praised by modern audiences was a tired and overused trope of science fiction used through the '60's and '70's.

Having David be the creator of the Alien is, for me, against O'Bannon's vision and justifies Giler's mistreatment of O'Bannon, his undeserved ownership of the production rights, and his greed. Giler not only stole Alien from O'bannon but also drove David Fincher off the production of Alien 3 and forced Joss Whedon to rewrite his script for Alien: Resurrection to cater for Sigourney Weaver's needless return. Now it appears he is, through the return of Ridley Scott to the franchise, attempting once again to impose his generic and unimaginative recycling of bad science fiction tropes onto a franchise and property he did not create but has greedily profiteered from for the past 40 years.

I have two words in reply...

Fuck that!

Add A Reply

Sign in to add a reply to this topic!

Alien Day 2019
New Alien: Covenant Forum Topics
Latest Alien Fandom Activity

Alien: Covenant is a sequel to 2012's Prometheus as well as a prequel to 1979's ALIEN. Alien fans looking to know more about Alien: Covenant should check back often. Alien-Covenant.com is an information resource for film enthusiasts looking to learn more about the upcoming blockbuster Alien: Covenant. Providing the latest official and accurate information on Alien: Covenant, this website contains links to every set video, viral video, commercial, trailer, poster, movie still and screenshot available. This site is an extension of the Alien & Predator Fandom on Scified - a central hub for fans of Alien and Prometheus looking to stay up-to-date on the latest news. Images used are property of their respective owners. Alien: Covenant, Prometheus and its associated names, logos and images are property of 20th Century Fox and are in no way owned by Scified and its related entities. This is a fan-created website for the purpose of informing and exciting fans for Alien: Covenant's release. If you have any questions about this site, its content or the Scified Network in general, feel free to contact Scified directly.

Scified is an entertainment media network covering the latest news on the most popular, upcoming science fiction movies, games and television. All content is property of Scified.com unless otherwise stated. Images and names of content we promote, discuss, review or report are property of their respective owners. Scified is independantly owned and operated by a team of dedicated sci-fi movie fans, who strive to provide the best information and community experience for other like-minded sci-fi movie enthusiasts.

Spin the reels of the best slots and win more than ever with top bonuses! Access Casinobonusca.com and get yours!

© 2019 Scified.com