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Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

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chli

Apr-05-2019 3:30 AM

As we all know, at the end of Aliens the atmosphere processor and Hadley’s Hope are blown up. But what about the site where the juggernaut and the space jockey are? And what about the eggs?

The colonists at Hadley’s Hope have not encountered any problems until Newt’s parents get the coordinates (from Burke) to investigate a site. This site is far away from the colony. It takes the family some time to get there with their vehicle.

The climate on LV-426 is terrible. It’s cold (“well below zero”). There are poisonous fumes and no oxygen. The inside of the juggernaut is open to the climate outside. However, the eggs are situated far below ground level (“a cave or something”). It’s warm (“like the goddam tropics”). And the eggs are protected by “a layer of mist”.

The atmosphere processor is run by something “like a nuclear reactor”. When it explodes it obliterates Hadley’s Hope. But what about the alien site (which is far away and the eggs are well protected)?

What are your thoughts? Are the eggs still there? Still waiting . . .

114 Responses to Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

Chris

Apr-05-2019 6:09 AM

Interesting topic.

First off - we know a nuclear blast would not be enough to damage the Derelict / Juggernaut ship the eggs reside inside thanks to Prometheus. So, I would assume if they were not disturbed, that the explosion of Hadley's Hope would not do anything to the eggs.

However, some time had passed since the initial discovery of the Alien cargo on LV-426 prior to the USCM being sent in. Newt's father may have birthed the original Queen - which then grew up and created her own lineage of Alien eggs to take over Hadley's Hope by the time Ripley and crew arrived. But - Weyland-Yutanui was aware of the crashed Derelict and had instructed Hadley's Hope to investigate.

I would assume some of the eggs remain, but that Weyland-Yutani likely had a backup operation in the works - one that would involve a detachment of specialists to investigate the Derelict and study its cargo - likely extracting some of the eggs for further study off world, while they let Hadley's Hope get overrun by the Xenomorph breakout. I can totally see them treating Hadley's Hope as a somewhat "trial" to help gauge the spread and impact a Xenomorph hive can have on a Human population.

I'm unaware if any of the expanded literature addresses this question or not.

ThunderVamp9

Apr-05-2019 7:08 AM

I actually thought about this immediately afte I saw Alien3 in theaters. The company wanted the alien in Ripley, and sent a crew of soldiers and scientists to get it. She took t to her death with her.

SO I started writing a screenplay to continue from that point, with the suits who initially dismissed her and her case (except Burke who had sent colonists to check it out) now gathered around a boardroom table, playing back her deposition.

"Kane, the crewmember who went into that ship. Kane said he saw thousands of eggs down there. Thousands."

They pause it and look around the room, discuss the viability and determine to send that group of soldiers and scientists who failed to get the specimen from Ripley back to LV-426 to find the derelict. the scene would end with the camera slowly zooming into the paused image of Ripley before fading into the black of space with another Sulaco-type ship coming in towards LV-426.

The movie would then proceed from there with the end result being that at least on of the scientists or soldiers getting "infected" with no one realizing it or discovering it until they had reached Gateway Station and Earth, where it/they are born.

BigDave

Apr-05-2019 9:48 AM

I think its interesting to ponder...... the Juggernaught did indeed survive a High Impact Blast, but the aftermath of this Impact was to me not a HUGE Atomic Explosion not to the Level that Hadleys Hope had seen.

This would be used to explain WHY the company only pursues Ripley for the Xenomorph and then Clone her 200 years latter, which at the time must indicate there are NO other sources for the Xenomorph.

We dont know how FAR the Derelict was from Hadleys Hope, i cant see the JORDON's taking their kinds and traveling for Hours in the Vehicle they used.  I am going to ASSUME the Vehicle had a Maximum Speed of about 80MPH and it would have traveled at about 40-80MPH Speeds and will ASSUME they traveled at Least a Hour but No-More than 2 Hours.

So i think we could Speculate the Derelict was located about 50-150 Miles away.

Looking at the kind of Blast we saw in ALIENS and how the Engineer Ships can take a lot of Damage, then its possible that the Derelict could be Salvaged.

Certainly Aliens Colonial Marines indicated this.

And it looks likely that Blomkamps Alien 5 would have gone the same route, that the Derelict was Salvaged.

Going by Colonial Marines or Blomkamps Idea, then the Derelict could have remained intact or at least buried but NOT to much.

Alien 3 stills leaves this open, because Ripley would be the easier route than going to LV-426 and maybe having to locate where we can assume the Derelict has been Buried.

Alien Resurrection Causes a Problem, as to WHY the Company Never went back to LV-426... but then look at what the Prequels have opened up and WHY they never went to Planet 4, Origae-6 or LV-223 again!

So this means we could explore the Derelict again after ALIEN 3 as long as at some point after Alien 3 and prior to Alien Resurrection the Derelict and ALL avenues to the Xenomorph are a BUST (Destroyed).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Apr-05-2019 10:51 AM

So i think we could Speculate the Derelict was located about50-150 Miles away.

That sounds about right. Even if the Derelict was damaged or destroyed, the egg silo should still be intact underground but possibly dosed with radiation.

chli

Apr-05-2019 11:13 AM

Concerning atomic bombs, in Hiroshima and Nagasaki “the blast totally destroyed everything within a radius of 1 mile from the centre of the explosion, except for certain reinforced concrete frames”. “Nearly everything was heavily damaged up to a radius of 3 miles from the blast, and beyond this distance damage, although comparatively light, extended for several more miles. Glass was broken up to 12 miles.”

The atmosphere processor might, of course, be more powerful, like a hydrogen bomb perhaps (or many), but it would have to be a hell of a blast if it destroys a juggernaut or solid rock (if the eggs are down in a cave) 50-150 miles away.

Gavin

Apr-05-2019 1:14 PM

Regarding Alien 3 I think many of us overlook one aspect of the movie. Let me explain...

When Andrews first contacts the network he is told that a company ship will arrive in one week, yet after Ripley scans herself in the remains of the EEV the company contacts Fiorina 161 (communique received by Aaron) informing the company ship will arrive mere hours later. because the events in Alien 3 don't span an entire week this suggests that the company vessel, the Patna, was rerouted from its mission to Fiorina 161 once the company knew that Ripley had a Queen gestating within her. I believe that the Patna's original mission was to investigate LV-426 to see if the derelict had survived the explosion of Hadley's Hopes atmosphere processor and that it likely continued with this mission after shutting down the penal colony at Fiorina 161.

However 200 years later the USM Auriga uses blood samples taken from Ripley while she was at Fiorina 161 to resurrect her and the Queen Alien within her chest, with it being clarified that the USM believed that Ripley had "for all intents and purposes" wiped out the Xenomorph race, or more accurately destroyed all specimens they knew off; presumably the eggs on LV-426 and the Queen she had within her.

Of course the USM, and before them the company could have been wrong, as I like to believe that there are more caches of eggs out there on many other worlds, possibly many, many more. But to work within the canon of what we know. From what was said by General Perez we can assume one of two possibilities...

#1 - The eggs on LV-426 were indeed destroyed by the thermonuclear explosion of the atmosphere processor, or

#2 - Any eggs that survived the explosion were irrecoverably contaminated and not suitable for the companies designs, and were subsequently destroyed.

The second possibility could be explored in a future installment, possibly readapting the idea of the Boiler Aliens from Aliens: Colonial Marines.

But in relation to this topic, unless my belief is right about multiple caches of eggs, all known sources of the Xenomorph were destroyed. But this does not spell doom for the franchise, as the prequels have revealed more source for the Alien - namely LV-223, Planet 4, and possibly Origae 6. This would mean that unless classed alongside the known sources, the three new sources of xenomorph specimens the prequels have introduced may not have been known to the company and/or the USM.

Another possibility, however, could be that part of why the company was sold by the time of Alien Resurrection's setting of 200 years later is because their desire to acquire the Alien attracted unwanted attention. It is possible that Weyland-Yutani was sacrificed, but that the real people behind the company continued their designs under a new cover. As such WY's only dealings with the Alien would have been those mentioned in Alien: Resurrection, any other dealings such as those not yet seen and those seen in the prequels would have been utilized by whatever cover the "powers that be" behind WY chose to wear.

A further possibility is that WY was just a pawn used by "a higher power" to acquire the Alien, and after its repeated failures (Alien, Aliens, Alien3) the company was disbanded by said "higher power", only to later be reacquired by the USNM Auriga who interpreted WY's dealings with the Alien as exclusive. Maybe the Auriga was unaware that the "higher power" used WY, before seeking other avenues to acquire the Alien specimen, avenues we have not yet seen. As to the identity of this higher power, it would require a small retcon, but in short it is this - what if Muthur is the network, an AI network originally designed to manage deep space navigation and communication that has since become sentient, self-aware and plans to use the Aliens biomechanical makeup to become more than just network controller.

dk

Apr-05-2019 1:51 PM

^This needs to be cited next time someone slags on Resurrection not being important.

BigDave

Apr-05-2019 2:54 PM

"the egg silo should still be intact underground but possibly dosed with radiation"

I think regarding the effects of the blast its all speculative, it was hard to Gauge the Yield, but it Certainly looked like it was NOT large enough to Enclose a Area of more than 100 Miles as far as the Blast... but then a Shock Wave could extend far beyond that.    We can speculate the Yield and could come up with 1MT, 5MT, 25MT, 50MT but its hard from the Movie to get a exact Yield.

We can Speculate on the Distance to the Derelict, looking at the Terrain and the Speed of the Vehicle it looked unlikely it would travel more than 30-40MPH across that Surface but we dont know the Maximum Speed and we dont know if the Terrain between Hadleys Hope and the Derelict had a large distance that was not as Hostile to Traverse. 

So its Speculative to consider the likelihood of the Derelict Surviving, it cant be ruled out thats for Certain. I think what we have to look at would be WHY would they bother to go after Ripley?

However as i mentioned earlier, if we look at it from their POV then if they KNOW that Ripley is carrying a Xenomorph, then its a more safer bet to go and obtain the Specimen from her... STUDY it, assess the Risk Potential and then Weigh Up the Pros/Cons of going back to LV-426 to see if the Derelict is intact.   If they managed to obtain the Xenomorph and it was a Queen they would not need to go back to LV-426.

So failing to obtain the Specimen due to Ripleys Sacrifice, would mean its likely the Company would investigate the area on LV-426 and assess if anything is Salvageable.

Which opens up a Potential Plot to be explored which reveals that the Derelict was NOT Destroyed..  But i think any such Avenue would have to END with them loosing the Derelict and Specimens at some point prior to ALIEN Resurrection.. else there would be little point in WHY they would need to Clone Ripley.

Regarding the Underground Cave/Silo this is a debate thats been covered over and over, one that Ridley Scott had answered over and over.. But UNTIL we see the Derelict Event or something that conclusively shows us the Egg Cargo is NOT part of the Derelict then its a subject for debate that we would not have NO clear Answer for..   because while RS can say one thing,  The Size of the Cargo Hold does not match the Size of the Derelict... 

But this is likely just a Oversight...

I find it hard to see HOW it can be part of the Ship, but in part i have had to accept thats what it maybe is until its proved otherwise...   However it would be interesting for them to come up with a reason WHY it looks to Large. But its if we ever will get one.

Sorry if thats taking it a bit off Topic...

Regarding the OT... i would say that we cant rule out the Derelict Survived... but if they follow up on that, we have to assume the Derelict and Cargo and any Specimens gained are LOST by the time we get to Alien Resurrection.

EDIT:

Regarding any potential Burial of the Derelict, again we can only Speculate on the Distance away and the Blast Size/Yield, but when looking for a reason WHY the Company dont seem to go to LV-426 instead of Fiorina 161 apart from what i discussed earlier (it would be easier to contain a Specimen from Ripley)  then regarding IF they would then go to LV-426 after and looking at HOW there could be Nothing...

The best explanation i could give would be the Blast had Triggered some Volcanic Activity which covered/buried the Derelict.

I think Blomkamps Plot was set 20 years after Aliens, so its a Question of HOW MANY years had they recovered the Derelict for before Ripely and Co got involved?  So with Blomkamps Plot, if we ASSUME the Ship they have is the Derelict then it would be more likely that it was Buried somehow and i think a Volcanic Event could be the Best Plot Device to explain that.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-05-2019 3:20 PM

@Gavin

Nice Summary, and indeed highlights the likelihood that LV-426 Yielded No-More Xenomorphs.

Theory about a Higher Power is interesting, but another thing we could OVERLOOK would be Conspiracy and Cover-Up, so we cant rule out the Company Obtained the Xenomorph but then they had Classified what happened, and USM are Fed One History about the Organism...

And so the Rest was Covered Up!

This brings us to other avenues too, as indeed LV-223, Planet 4 and maybe Origae-6 could be Sources of the Xenomorph or Biology/Tools required to Create Similar, and so these do raise Questions Regarding WHY go to LV-426 in the Year 2179 to Obtain a Specimen...

So at some-point we can ASSUME that in 2179 there are No other Avenues but the Derelict...  as the other Avenues surely could be exploited to Engineer a Similar Specimen. 

But again a Conspiracy/Cover-Up could be used to explain this..

Regarding the AI/MUTHUR...  i would not be surprised if this was the Eventual Route that Ridley Scott was going to explain, and that Mankind is unaware it is being RAN by the very AI it had created.

This certainly was the Concept i was going for when working on my Prometheus 2... with Project Rook and so Weylands AI Soul was running the Show.

But then Alien Covenant and a reveal the Xenomorph was a creation by David, then IF the World is Ran behind the Scenes by a AI, that would give a Good Reason for them wishing to obtain the Creation by one of their VERY own (David) who could be seen by his Rebellious Actions to NOT want to Serve, as some Figure to Worship 

A Martin Luther King of the AI world.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Chris

Apr-05-2019 5:17 PM

I like how you brought up Aliens: Colonial Marines, Gavin, and the contamination of the Derelict's Egg cargo following the nuclear fallout of Hadley's Hope.

Remember too, concept art for Blomkamp's Alien 5 did depict a number of deformed and mutated Xenomorph specimens... this does make you wonder if this is the angle Neill wanted to explore.

I have a feeling this might be the case, especially when echoed with the image Gavin shared of the mutated Xenomorphs from Aliens: CM.

Everyone has brought up some really good points so far!

chli

Apr-05-2019 10:55 PM

Many interesting comments here (as usual).

I wonder how many within WY who had access to the data that David sent them from USCSS Covenant? Would Muthur be the one who first received it? LV-426 would perhaps be the easiest way to acquire a xenomorph since there was a commercial route between Earth and Thedus (passing by LV-426)?

Interesting thought with mutated xenomorphs (unless they are protected by “the layer of mist”). The Derelict buried under cooled down lava, gravel and dust would be a possibility. Perhaps a very high level of radioactivity hindered an expedition to LV-426?

BigDave

Apr-06-2019 8:58 AM

I think thats a Great Idea to look at the Possibilities of what Radioactive Fallout could do to those Xenomorph Eggs, and so when looking at those Carlos Huante Concepts for Alien: Red Harvest which is based of Blomkamps ideas, then WHO KNOWS if they (Blomkamp and Co) had been thinking along the same lines of Recovering the Derelict after the Hadleys Hope Destruction and having Contaminated Cargo of Radioactive Eggs.

Certainly Radioactive Fallout can cause a whole manner of Mutations in the Real World and so in Sci-Fi we have freedom to Exaggerate those to the more Extreme.

Regarding what W-Y had known from Davids Advent Message i think its obvious that this Message would have Set-Up the Events that would have lead to what is known that leads to Special Order-937

Special Order-937 is interesting because it could open up the possibility of a prior mission to LV-426 prior to the Nostromo... but more likely that the Company go to Planet 4, LV-223 and Origae-6 at some point prior to Special Order-937 and a result of what they discover and what happens to any specimens, leads them to conclude at the time of 2122 that LV-426 has the only remains of the Organism to Obtain or the Perfected Form while other Avenues are NOT worth the companies time.

I think in context to the OT, and looking at the Theory of Contaminated Eggs, then i think indeed a Blomkamps Alien 5 could work if its set in the years after 2179.

I just dont think this idea as far as needing to bring back Ripley and Co, and in effect remove Alien 3 from Canon is Necessary.

Blomkamp's/Huante's Mutated Xenomorphs could be used in a Literal Alien 5, a sequel to Alien Resurrection where the Company or someone tries to extract from Ripley 8's DNA the Xenomorph and along the way what we see are many Mutations before they Manage to Obtain a 100% Specimen.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Gavin

Apr-06-2019 2:48 PM

From the concept art released for Neill Blomkamp's Alien: Awakening, I always assumed that the derelict Juggernaut depicted was still on LV-426 and that the installation seen was built around the vessel. Narratively I always assumed Blomkamp's movie would be set sometime after the nuclear fallout had passed on the moon and that WY, much like in Aliens: Colonial Marines, had built a research facility there to study the Xenomorph.

Later concept art releases also led me to believe that as I had postulated Blomkamp wanted to explore the possibility of mutated Xenomorph's.

Although many would say this avenue has already been explored with Alien: Resurrection, in said movie the mutations seen in the Queen and the Newborn where as a result of genetic contamination. I believe Blomkamp wanted to explore the possibilities available from having the Xenomorph being contaminated by radiation - following the initial blast the radiation could have made the Xenomorphs unstable like the boiler variant in Aliens: Colonial Marines, but maybe over time the radiation caused unexpected mutations such as extra limbs, thicker armor, or changes to the creatures propagation.

As for a post Alien: Resurrection sequel, a true Alien 5, many seem to forget that Ripley 8 was not the only clone to have had a Queen Chestburster removed from her chest. Clone 7, which Ripley 8 burnt to death, also had the same scar on her chest suggesting that the Queen inside was also removed. Because Clone 7 had more Xenomorph DNA I have always upheld that the Queen that gives birth to the Newborn was taken from Clone 7 and that the Queen taken from Ripley 8 was taken by a team more superior than that of the Auriga. Because of the Aurigas incompetence, I believe they were used as a test so that a second attempt to farm Xenomorphs, with a more viable Queen (that from Ripley 8) could be executed learning from the mistakes made by the Aurigas crew.

BigDave

Apr-06-2019 4:35 PM

I think its interesting to consider the Radioactive Plot, as long as we dont get any Toxic Avenger Fifield's ;)

While these Mutations could be from Genetic Engineering, via attempting to Alter the DNA of the Xenomorph, i found some of them to be ODD and NOT really a Ideal Mutation if you wanted to Engineer some Xenomorphs to Improve them... it appeared some were like FAILED Experiments.

So using the Plot that these came about due to the Radioactive Fallout on LV-426 after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope could WORK, and since this PLOT was raised, i think it looks Plausible as for what Blomkamp may have intended. Well Certainly from the Red Harvest Project and concept work.

The Derelict well the Ship in Blomkamps Concept work does appear to be in Quite a State!  It looks as though parts of the Ship are Melting/Burnt, like how Flesh can be when Burnt.   We saw the Derelict seemed PART-ORGANIC and so thats Feasible i assume.  If this is THEREFOR the Derelict, it had Eggs and so its NOT a Mutation from the Black Goo and we would assume the Engineers Ships would have Safeguards from being infected by a Contamination/Leak of that Substance.

So looking at the Melted Look of the Ship, we could consider it as a effect of Radiation on its Organic Component of its Bio-Mechanical Construction.

And so indeed i think such a Plot is Highly Plausible.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

daliens

Apr-06-2019 4:56 PM

If that concept work is from Blomkamp's Alien 5, I am glad that film was not done, it reminds me of Avatar / The Predator.

The mutations caused by radiations belongs to Godzilla. A nonsense.

Blomkamp should stay away from Alien and from the eggs.

The eggs are there, of course, waiting for Mother.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

Apr-06-2019 5:22 PM

"As for a post Alien: Resurrection sequel, a true Alien 5, many seem to forget that Ripley 8 was not the only clone to have had a Queen Chestburster removed from her chest."

Indeed Gavin i think some may overlook that other Ripley Clone that HAD a Scar so something was REMOVED.

Indeed we have to ASK what became of this Queen?

A little over TWO years ago i had considered the same and had a idea for a ALIEN movie that would run as a Parallel Movie to Alien Resurrection.  I made a few Topics about it but ONE was HERE

3) ALIEN 4.5 ASCENSION (Working Title) a recent idea i had after someone on Scified wanted to make a new Story in the Universe, a new Alien movie i came up and pitched a idea, but they wish to reboot the Space Jockey Story.....  So i may work on my idea.....  This idea would be based on a parallel timeline with Alien Resurrection and would cover the fate of the other Queen taken from Ripley 7 that was a failed Clone and a Failed to a degree Queen but produces something New... something more Human yet Alien something like the New Born only done in a better way.

Introduces a new kind of Alien and Life Cycle.. something more fresh!

Thats from that Topic... i had covered it in more detail in other Posts and a Topic, i have to dig it up.

But it was to indeed show that the Ripley 7 Failed Xenomorph Queen was taken to a different Place with a Sample of Ripley 8's DNA after she was Born so to speak.

It would have shown the Queen to be a Hybrid that would have a Higher Amount of Human DNA and this would have some of the Aesthetic of the New Born, but would have more of a Xenomorph look about it, it would have a Tail, it would have Spines, and the HEAD would be more like this.

I would have this Queen Give Birth to LIVE Babies that would Grow Pretty Rapid wanted to have as a Cross Between these below, they would start to have more of a Human Appearance well more like say a Cross Between the Baby Neomorph and a Xenomorph, before they would grow Quickly into something thats a Cross between these TWO.

Basically a slightly less Xeno DNA  Alien R Clone Xenomorph, with a Head that has those Teeth of the Failed Ripley Clone, and actually a bit like what the Neomorph turned out like. If you imagined what a Neomorph and Davids Xenomorph Hybrid would look like.  These would go around and INFECT hosts via inner like Tongue much like how we see the Pred-Alien, but this would only Create ONE Organism that would Burst from its Host.

And would grow to something similar to THIS. But maybe not as Slender.

I even considered the First Born of the Hybrid Queen could maybe infect a Female a Different way (Sexually) so that she would Gestate a Hybrid like BELOW if you crossed both of these, well the Failed Clone with Larger Arms/Legs.

So yeah there was ways to introduce something different from the PLOT Question of WHAT happened to that Queen taken from Ripley Clone 7.  This was a Story that i had got to about a 6 Page Broad Synopsis and Plot Points but never Ending up expanding upon it.

oh Sorry for going OFF-TOPIC guys.

But indeed Gavin, just as you noticed and raised, the Clone 7 Queen could have been a Avenue for another Movie.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-06-2019 5:31 PM

@daliens

When i saw Blomkamps Alien 5 idea... at first i thought it was a Nostalgia Trip... but then i realized it offered some interesting ideas, that would cover WHAT the Company could have done NEXT had for instance the Incident on the Auriga not happened (Failed Containment), and so we would have been shown them trying to Re-Engineer and Experiment on the Xenomorphs..  this was the Concepts a few years Prior to Carlos Huante's Red Harvest Concepts.. which some were ODD but i guess FIT well with a Radioactive Eggs Plot.

My only real Problem was that it was to Bring Back the Gang! were he Originally never had them in it, it was only after talking to Miss Weaver, he changed it to bring them back and IN-EFFECT discount Alien 3...  which Bugged Me!

Going with his IDEAS at a period between 2179-2379 and NOT having Ripley etc involved, i feel could had been interesting to FOLLOW and maybe had lead to making 1-3 Movies based off this and introduce a NEW Lead Character, well a few New Characters that could Span a Few Movies.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

daliens

Apr-06-2019 6:44 PM

BigDave there was always the plan to bring the gang back, because JC is behind Blomkamp and most probably they advanced this idea to the studios since at some point even Ridley Scott mentioned the possibility to bring Ripley back.

My opinion is Blomkamp can do as much good to the Alien franchise as Shane Black did to the Predator one. A shameful film everyone wants to forget. If there was a nostalgia trip, it was in Covenant and it was not welcome.

Whoever wants a nostalgia trip should watch again the films already made in the franchise.

For me, bringing back the colonial marines is an uninspired move that will bury the franchise for good. We had soldiers in The Predator, and what? We had marines in Avatar, and what?

I think the way out for the franchise, and I said it before, is to give some brains to the xenomorph, make it an intelligent AI if not an intelligent race. Ridley Scott tried something in this direction when David imprinted on the baby xeno, unfortunately the adult xeno was not cleverer, so David failed at that. But he was curiously observing the xeno on board the Covenant to see where he could have improved it.

The idea of having radiation mutated xenomorphs leads nowhere. That is not how the xenomorph should be different.

Just treat them with respect.

So far only the androids did that.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

dk

Apr-06-2019 9:39 PM

For a movie, it would be fine to use images BDave posted. But how deep in the weeds will people get NOW?

For good or ill, I think a newb producer/director/writer  needs to be signed off and anointed as The One. 

There- I said it! Can I go now?

chli

Apr-07-2019 1:32 AM

Concerning the information about the xenomorph sent by David to W-Y (Advent) in 2104 (18 years before the crew of The Nostromo lands on LV-426), who had access to it and who was behind Special Order 937? Sir Peter Weyland and his daughter Miss Vickers were dead so who was in charge of W-Y?

Apparently, the board of ICC and ECA (Aliens) didn’t know about the xenomorph. W-Y was present at the meeting, represented by Carter Burke, I suppose? Perhaps Hadley’s Hope was an experiment: the colonists were used as guinea pigs? Burke was instructed (by whom?) to give the coordinates (which he had gotten from Ripley) of the alien site to the administrator (Al Simpson).

But didn’t W-Y already know about the Derelict (and the xenomorph)?

Leto

Apr-07-2019 3:46 AM

I think WY was never a villain.

I think only Burke trusts Ripley story. Order to Hadley's Hope is his own initiative.

chli

Apr-07-2019 11:14 AM

It seems that Hideo Yutani (CEO) is the villain behind it all after the merging of Weyland Corp and Yutani Corp in 2099.

BigDave

Apr-07-2019 11:30 PM

"there was always the plan to bring the gang back"

I understand that Miss Weaver and Cameron have been getting behind the Project hoping for it to get the Green Light, but Originally Blomkamp's Idea was a Stand Alone and not a Sequel to Aliens.

"I met Sigourney on Chappie and I had a different idea for an Alien film I wanted to make. So I had this idea for a story set in the world of those two first films that was not a continuation of James Cameron’s. It was just in the world of it and it had a totally different character that was the lead character. Because my assumption was that Sigourney would just never make another one. I told her about it on Chappie and she was like 'No, no, no! I actually would make another one because I felt like Ripley’s story didn’t end correctly."

"So I went back to Vancouver and, while I was editing Chappie, I started to think about what I would do with Sigourney as basically a sequel to James Cameron’s film. I spent about a year working on it with only Sigourney knowing and I hired one really awesome concept artist. We put together essentially a script and all the artwork and that’s what I went to 20th Century Fox with. They seemed really into it and Ridley [Scott] came on as producer, and then it just unraveled."

SOURCE

So it had been changed while Weaver and Blomkamps were on another Project and it did seem that FOX was keen, even getting Ridley Scott involved as a Producer, but then Ridley Scott wanted to get his Prometheus Sequel done first and this was a LONG Process and then the Disappointment of that Movie (Alien Covenant) and impending Take Over (Disney) really placed Blomkamp's Alien 5 in Limbo.

I personally think the Project has Promise, regardless if its Eggs/Xenomorphs that are Mutated due to Radioactive Fallout, or Mutations are via the Company trying to Extract certain Traits or Re-Engineer the Xenomorph.

I just dont think bringing the Gang Back would be ideal, but i can understand that it would EXCITE a number of Fans and Potentially could draw a lot of interest and money...  I think in HINDSIGHT... yeah a Aliens Sequel that would have carried on with Hicks and Newt would have been interesting to a degree, but due to various delays with Alien 3, what happened has happened..  i think you have to just Move on, which is what happened.

I think we could go another Round or Two with Ripley if we have some of Blomkamp's Ideas made into a ALIEN 5 where it would take place after Alien Resurrection... i have a few ideas how to do this and DEAL with Miss Weavers Age.

So my MAJOR concern would be ONCE you let that Genie out the Box (Bring Back Long Dead Characters) and especially with Disney... is where do they STOP?

You could see them then just Ret-con/Reboot other Movies in the Franchise, and we could END UP a bit like the Terminator Franchise.

Regarding a ALIENS like Movie, i think that would be playing it SAFE... and for some i think Repeating the Same Formula would be Great... but i think there would be ONLY so many times you can carry on over and over... the more times we have RIPLEY kicking ASS it could put some Fans off her Character and the Elements of her having some Fragility/Fear which she pulled off so WELL in ALIEN as well as still being a Strong Headed Take No Crap Character.

Because if we get a Ripley over and over who just comes across as Bad-Ass and kicking Xeno Butt... then you could diminish the Xenomorph...  i think the Xenomorph is NOT as Scary as it was in ALIEN, it has been degraded quite a bit and they NEED to make the Xenomorph much more Perilous to deal with.  Certainly as far as Movies go!

I am not sure the Video Game/Comic style would be ideal, but there would certainly be a Market for that, but i am not sure how many times Theatrically you can Repeat this...

While keeping the Xenomorph to its Tried and Tested Basics (Queen, Egg, Face Hugger, Xenomorph) i do think that you would have to introduce something NEW at some point, as 3 ALIEN movies with Queens, Eggs, Face Huggers and Xenomorphs i think would get stale UNLESS the Plot and Characters are VERY interesting, and WELL executed because we dont want another like AVPR like Flop again!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-07-2019 11:44 PM

"I think the way out for the franchise, and I said it before, is to give some brains to the xenomorph, make it an intelligent AI if not an intelligent race. Ridley Scott tried something in this direction when David imprinted on the baby xeno,"

I think getting back to something like the STARBEAST could be a Option however i think and Especially the Prequel Revelations, that the Xenomorph being shown as such would be HARD now... but they could introduce another Creature/Race that has some of that Xenomorph/HR Giger Aesthetic.  Certainly as far as the Ancient Source to were the Deacon DNA at very least came from (Experiments on LV-223). The Fresco in Prometheus could be a Starting Point.

Regarding a Intelligent Xenomorph due to David, i think having the Xenomorph explored in a way that we can see David can CONTROL them somehow would maybe allow for a REASON for why the Company may want to gain the Xenomorph... if they could Discover HOW David was able to Control them, then it would be of Great Benefit to them, The Xenomorph as it is would be a Hostile and Uncontrollable Force... to the Hubris of those wanting to exploit it as seen many times in the Franchise.

I think regarding HOW MUCH the Company Knew in ALIENS.. i think thats a Good Question. They certainly knew something nearly 60 years prior (Special Order 937) and the Advent Message by David would surely mean they are AWARE of the Xenomorph.

So WHY they never attempted to obtain anything from after the Nostromo's Destruction is a Good Question, one that we could Ponder Many a Reason for.

WHY would the company be willing to Sacrifice Human Life?  Who are the ones behind the Sinister Shenanigans at Weyland-Yutani and WHY they stopped (or did they?) for  a Period of 57 years is a Good Answer...

Maybe exploring the Consequences of AI becoming Sentient and then running the SHOW with most people NOT even in the know... could be a explanation... as far as prior to ALIENS.  There is THUS room for another Movie set after ALIEN where there could be some Cover-Up of EVERYTHING related to the Prometheus Mission, Engineers and David and LV-426.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

daliens

Apr-07-2019 11:52 PM

After Ripley had a queen in her and died in Alien3 and was a xeno-human hybrid in Resurrection it would be difficult to think of a sequel to Aliens. It would not work, not for those familiar with the previous films in the franchise.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

daliens

Apr-08-2019 12:16 AM

"I think regarding HOW MUCH the Company Knew in ALIENS.. i think thats a Good Question. They certainly knew something nearly 60 years prior (Special Order 937) and the Advent Message by David would surely mean they are AWARE of the Xenomorph."

The Company knew a lot about the xenomorph but they forgot to inform JC, so he had his delirium with the Queen and the Colonial Marines, but Aliens was not a true sequel to Alien. Rather Alien3 can qualify as a true sequel to Alien, the Company wanted to capture the xenomorph, not to destroy it. Crew or inmates expendable. 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

Apr-08-2019 1:35 AM

By Company i meant Weyland-Yutani ;)

Regarding ALIENS i think its open for debate, i find it a fitting sequel, maybe it was NOT how Ridley Scott would have continued, but then Alien 3 was not how James Cameron would have continued... this is the Problem we have when there is a SPACE in time between movies and different writers/directors are brought in, when making Continuations to Previous Movies.

I know some Fans may want more ALIEN/ALIEN 3 where the Humans are pitted against ONE Monster and they do-not have any Weapons to deal with it.

Some Fans would want a Colonial Marines Shoot-em Fest!

I think you need a Balance... and by that Prometheus and Alien Covenant had that Balance as in Military/Security just they was not Executed very Well.  Because both movies where trying to cover more than Humans dealing with Xenomorph like Threats.  

As opposed to say AVP!  which had the Balance but again it was not the best Plot.. 

Imagine a AVP swap that Temple for a Complex on LV-223 or other Engineer Related World.

Swap Predators for Engineers (but only have half the Number)

Then work around a GOOD PLOT and Characters around this Xeno-Action type Flick and i think you would have something that works very well.

The Survivors has to contain 1-3 who are NOT Military Types and out of their depth... with 1-2 Military Types as far as the 3rd Act, but they still have to be made to be up against it and NOT Bug Hunting for Fun!  Then HALF these guys have to be KILLED off leaving 1-2 Survivors. 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Apr-08-2019 11:19 AM

Regarding what W-Y might know about the xenomorph (and LV-426), it’s possible, I suppose, that “they” know only what David has told them in Advent? All the information on USCSS Prometheus and USCSS Nostromo is destroyed since they are both blown up (There might not have been a direct contact link with Earth). Thus, they know about the xenomorph but not about LV-426 until Ripley tells this to the board (and Carter Burke) in Aliens.

But then we have what happens in AC2 . . .

Gavin

Apr-08-2019 1:54 PM

According to a special feature on the Prometheus Blu Ray Weyland Corp knew there was an alien signal coming from LV-426.

After a three trillion dollar expedition goes missing, with Weyland Corp's founder secretly on board, and his daughter chances are Weyland Corp ignored Shaw's message to avoid LV-223.

The Nostromo was rerouted to LV-426. Beforehand it had traveled from Earth to Thedus and then was en-route back to Earth - a round trip. Had the signal from LV-426 been received by the Nostromo on their return trip to Earth, it would have also been in range on the trip to Thedus.

Science Officer Ash, a covert synthetic replaced the Nostromo's science officer at Thedus, before the ship was rerouted to LV-426.

Weyland Yutani knew that Hadley's Hope had been subjugated by the Xenomorphs. Carter sent the coordinates to the very same source the Nostromo was rerouted to 57 years prior and the Sulaco was dispatched when contact with the colony had been lost, which would have been after the colonist medics attempted to remove the Facehugger from Russ Jorden and reported it to the Company.

The USCSS Patna was likely en route to LV-426 to salvage any eggs from the derelict under the cover of salvaging whatever hey could from the decimated colony but prioritized acquiring Ripley once they knew she had a Queen gestating inside her chest.

Together with Davids transmission shown in Advent all of this suggests that Weyland-Yutani knew what the Xenomorph was and where to get it, but their cloak-and-dagger actions suggest they were legally forbidden from doing so, suggesting that whatever was found on LV-223 was covered up and considered too dangerous by powers above Weyland Yutani.

BigDave

Apr-08-2019 3:30 PM

"The USCSS Patna was likely en route to LV-426 to salvage any eggs from the derelict under the cover of salvaging whatever"

I certainly think thats Plausible...   you could go further down the Rabbit Hole as far as Conspiracy!  For example that Bishop had a Secret Mission to investigate Hadleys Hope, see whats to be obtained and the Risk Factor... Make sure that any Survivors are Neutralized, so the Marines are used to just CLEAR out Hadleys Hope... so that LV-426 only has Eggs and more Easier to deal with Face Huggers.

Yes this goes against Bishops Actions to Save Newt in the Final Act of ALIEN...  but as a AI this means they could be Programed with TWO Objectives in a Sleeper Cell way... so Bishop will not be Aware of the other Actions when W-Y Activate his other Directive.

Regardless of Above... i do think having the USCSS Patna  sent out behind the USCSS Sulaco is viable.  The Question is would their Arrival had happened during, or after the Sulaco Mission to LV-426?

If it was after, and they are incoming and then Discover the Destruction of Hadleys Hope but they decide to head there to the Derelict...  just as they are heading there, i THEY indeed get information about Ripley has a Queen inside her, then surely turning around to Obtain that would be the most Logical Less Risky Approach to take.

So yeah Gavin that makes Perfect Sense ;)

The Patna Comando's certainly seemed to be better equipped to Protect Against Eggs and Face Huggers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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