Hello members of Scified,
It's been a while since I opened a discussion.
The Alien franchise is marked with this year an anniversary. 40 years ago, the first film in the series was released. With a potential TV series in production and other releases such as comic and book releases this year, I want to discuss with you the traits of the film franchise.
Maybe a look back at the franchise might give us a hint to whats coming.
- secondary characters don't survive
e.g. Newt, Hicks, E. Shaw, crew of the Nostromo and so on
- films show just glimpse of whats going on
e.g. Prometheus, Aliens, Alien
- films are made with a gap of several years
- new alien design with every film
- new alien life form with every film
e.g. Prometheus (Deacon, Hammerpede, Trilobyte), Alien Covenant (Neomorph, Baby Neomorph), Aliens (Alien Queen), Alien 3 (Alien Dog), Alien Resurrection (Hybrid)
- end of the films with scope for freedom
- new crew/ team with every film
e.g. marines, colonists, truckers, prisoners, ...
- new android type with every film
(Ash, Bishop, Call, David, Walter)
- repeating motives
(e.g. distress call, androids, strong female characters, haunted house setting)
Thinking about these traits over the last days, I think we can expect a sequel to Covenant. Fox's new films franchises like planet of the apes did come to an end two years ago and it is possible that the X-Men film might come to an end too.
Regarding the sequel, I think it is very likely that we see a new crew, maybe a new android (or Walter) and different life forms again.
Even though Alien Covenant was not a huge financial success, the studio's revenue is made not only through the film itself, but over the years what is connected to it e.g. comics, books, dvd/blurays, ..
Please let me know in the comments, if you know more unique characteristics.
@123Engineer The longer this list is the more I wonder why I stick around.
I would like only to comment your claim that "secondary characters don't survive ". All the three examples you provide were killed off because the studio thought better and generated complaints. Even now there many who want Alien 5 to bring back Newt and Hicks. And let me ask you since when an actor playing a secondary role is the first one to be mentioned at the beginning off the film (Fassbender was only the second as opposed to Covenant where he is the first)? And it is the first character to be introduced and leaves the final message. By the sequel things David does those things. We already know from C. Huante interview that she was there in the early stages of the story.
I think it comes down to the Franchise in part trying to OFFER different routes... The Alien Franchise covered a lot of what you listed. The Prequels had attempted to introduce something more than seeing Human Characters Put in Jeopardy by contact with Hostile Xenomorph Organisms, that some Nefarious Company on Earth wish to obtain.
Prometheus attempted to steer away from the Tropes of Alien Franchise, and while Alien Covenant returned to some of them, it appears that Ridley Scott had intended to make Alien Covenants sequel FAR less Alieny than Alien Covenant was.
While Prometheus attempted to explore something NEW, it was always going to be Shackled to the ALIEN Franchise where Fans would expect any Prequel to have Answers to the Xenomorph Origins and Introduce our Face Hugging little Friends..
A number of the Themes that the Prequels were trying to explore are a bit of a Distraction from what Fans Expect a ALIEN movie should be about.
So SADLY i feel IF we ever get a Prequel that will Tie-Up the events that BEGAN with Prometheus and END with When/How and Why those Eggs got onto the Derelict it will be a Movie that would By-Pass Certainly what ever Ridley Scott had plans for as far as the NEXT 1-2 movies would have.
It would be likely it would be some kind of After-Math Movie... to what ever happens NEXT in the years 2105-2115, much like how Alien Covenant Barely covered what happened between 2094-2104 and we would likely get a more Alieny Movie than even Alien Covenant, because i feel thats what Disney Feel the fans would be interested in.
I would not even BANK on a Prequel... they could go for a Sequel within the Alien Franchise, and maybe even reveal details within this that would Contradict the Prequels as far as the Plot of David creates the Xenomorph. And so would not answer what was Davids version then and what becomes of it!
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
- films are made with a gap of several years
Interesting point. That gives a lot of flexibility for sequels and off shoots.
Speaking of "Traits of the Franchise", I find it interesting that you didn't include probably two of the more prevalent traits of the franchise which stifled the franchise and contributed heavily to its demise...
#1 - Ripley must not die
#2 - The Queen must feature
I know some are going to jump on me for the first one saying that Ripley died in Alien 3, but remember that only a mere seven years later Sigourney Weaver was back starring in the role (at Giler's insistence despite claiming he had nothing to do with Resurrection). In Alien Ripley was the bitch of the crew who proved lucky enough through her tenacity to survive, only to return 57 years later to face the nightmare that had forever changed her life. Narratively, Ripley should have sacrificed herself in Aliens, but James Cameron wanted a happy ending. This resulted in Ripley once again facing the Alien in Alien 3, and despite sacrificing herself a movie too late Ripley returned from death in Resurrection, and with interest forever circling around Neill Blomkamp's Alien: Awakening there could be a chance of Ripley returning yet again.
The second trait I mentioned is actually the more perplexing one, when it comes to the fanbase. The original movie was, as deleted scenes showed, meant to show that the Alien could reproduce by metamorphising its prey into the Ovomorph. However because the scene featuring this concept was omitted from the 1979 theatrical release, and with home media at the time (VHS, Betamax) not being as all-inclusive as todays digital media James Cameron sought to answer the riddle of the thousands of eggs Kane witnessed in Alien by creating a new caste of the creature, the Queen, and through her realizing the Alien as a eusocial organism, similar to insects. Camerons movie proved to be, much like its predecessor, high influential having inspired the Borg, Starship Troopers and Halo, as well as being adapted in countless Aliens themed comics and video games.
Despite the movie's legacy, there is a division of the fanbase that vocally despises the introduction of the Queen into the canon of the franchise, yet if we are to be honest, it is the Queen that has driven the franchise forward ever since, appearing in one form or another in the four movies that followed Aliens (Alien 3, Alien: Resurrection, AvP and AvP: Requiem).
Don't get me wrong, I agree with the purists that the original reproduction method of "Eggmorphing" is a better idea creatively. With Prometheus and Alien: Covenant it would appear as though Ridley Scott is moving away from the "bug Alien" by showing that the Alien is just as adaptive in how it can reproduce as it is in its ability to acquire genetic traits. But without the Queen would we even have a franchise - as limiting as the idea is creatively and its representation of the creature, the idea is much easier for general, casual audiences understand.
of course, there are more traits that have been missed such as (but not limited to)...
- Synthetic naming conventions (alphabetical, then after the producers at Brandywine; David and Walter, is Gordon next?)
- Aliens ability to acquire genetic traits of hosts (see the Kenner toys and video games for possible)
- Corporate conspiracy (praised, despite being a tired cliche by 1979 - Logans Run, Soylent Green, Rollerball, Saturn V, Demon Seed etc.)
- Fourth Act (essentially a cinematic encore)
- Intertwined Birth, Sex and Death (Chestbursters phallic form born from death being a prime example)
- Loneliness (less obvious, but heavily apparent with a little inflection)
- Defeat (the Alien always wins, eventually)
As for BigDaves comments, I agree that the last thing this franchise need is another sequel or prequel. I believe that the Alien franchise needs a movie that establishes a definitive yet ambiguous and threatening status quo, a looming threat whose inevitable exploration serves to lead us a step closer to the inevitable danger.
What the Alien franchise needs is the grandiose that was promised - Paradise.
Yes, I didn't think of that. The Queen is was always a driving force in the films. It wasn't that obvious because the queen stays mainly in the background and gets revealed in the last act or late in the story.
As already teased, we might see a queen in the sequel to Covenant. It was already teased in some short clips. She probably gets created by David or maybe evolves from itself which is unlikely and is revealed later in the film.
I am looking forward to Alien Day. Hopefully we get an update on the sequel...
Most probably on Alien Day we'll only get the 6 shorts that won the Tongal - Fox competition.
"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"
Regarding the Queen statement by David, i think its possible that this would not be a Traditional Xenomorph Queen. But who knows... it appears the Set-Up seemed to indicate a certain PATH... but then RS comments about the Sequel seemed to indicate this would not be the case (wont be about the Xenomorph).
I certainly think if we continue with Alien Franchise movies they have to introduce more variation than Traditional Looking Queens, Eggs and Xenomorphs... and some of Blomkamps Ideas do show us Hybrids and attempts to Weaponize/Engineer the Xenomorphs. so that would be a bit different to what say a Alien Resurrection, Aliens and AVP movies did.
Alien Resurrection did however cover such things... and offered us Hybrids.
Regarding ALIEN-DAY this years is a BIG ONE.. the 40th Anniversary and so IF they have anything planned as far as the Franchise, then this date (26th April 2019) would be the ideal date to drop information/teasers.
Surely Disney have had enough time to consider the viability of the Franchise, i think they see potential in its many Mediums... the Question is are MOVIES seen as viable to them?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Until something interesting happens, I am currently reading the Alien Covenant - Origins prequel novel. It's quite interesting though. I can recommend it. The next book will be the film's novelization.
I also read the fire and stone comic series and already own the life and death series. But what happens after that? What are you reading or watching about the series?
I think despite the Future of the Movies being in LIMBO...
Disney know they can make money from other avenues, and so i expect to see Comics and Novels as well as Games continuing to come out, just as we have had in the Past/Present. Even Franchise Cross-Overs (AVP).
There is a lot you can expand upon with the Franchise, but i do feel any Books, Comics and Games would CENTER around the Xenomorph.... as i feel that Disney would feel this is the ASPECT that makes Money $$$$ .... but also Ripley Connections too.
I would not expect the Engineers to be used to much effect as far as Background, they would likely be shown much like the PREDATORS have been... where its not so much about their History etc... but to show they are Superior, Stronger and go around KILLING Crap! Using their Technology!
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
It is important to specify the Genre of this franchise, because it provides a framework for the upcoming episodes.
The genre of the first Alien film was Science fiction (1) + Horror (2) + Drama (3). It was an interesting B movie.
Cameron's Alien was Science fiction (1) + Action (2) + Horror (3). People remember of this film as a good action movie.
The genre of the first Alien Versus Predator was Science Fiction (1) + Action (2) + Adventure (3). This film was a good adventure movie.
The Genre of Prometheus was Science Fiction (1) + Drama (2) + Action (3). The action parts incorporated limited amount horror. This film was a tragedy.
Alien Covenant was a Science Fiction (1) + Drama (2) + Action (3) film as well. The film makers have put slightly more emphasize on the horror.
Perhaps it is wise to continue with the direction of Prometheus and Covenant storyline and define franchise as a science fiction drama(tragedy) with action elements.
If the film makers emphasize horror too much, they will reduce Alien films into B movies.
If the film makers over-emphasize the action and neglect the drama, Alien films will be lost among the vast number of other action movies and the franchise will not have a long future.
Here is a definition of tragedy: A drama or literary work in which the main character is brought to ruin or suffers extreme sorrow, especially as a consequence of a tragic flaw, moral weakness, or inability to cope with unfavorable circumstances. Tragedy is a play, film, television program, or other narrative work that portrays or depicts calamitous events and has an unhappy but meaningful ending.
The studio can produce large number of Alien tragedies as long as they create a meaningful story around this mystical even mythical creature.
Alien franchise can present a (xeno)-morphed version of every living organism known today.
new crew/ team with every film
e.g. marines, colonists, truckers, prisoners,
infected planets, teraforming colonies, research centers, observation outposts, security outposts, logistic stations, large space stations, , asteroid stations, abandoned stations, ghost ships, junkyards, dockyards, mining stations, plantations, ancient ruins.
Mobile auto turret for security
Mounted auto turret for protecting doors and hallways.
The alien pathogene is capable to infect plants and it is able
transform the vegetation of the colonized planet. The infected vegetation dries out or it becomes extremely poisonous and the planet become uninhabitable.
Indeed NTFS we could see a unlimited number of Hybrids/Mutations from the Black Goo. A lot is still up for debate about the Substance. Prometheus/Alien Engineers set us down a certain path to what it was capable, but Alien Covenant introduced a hint the Substance could be Programed to have different effects.
This in part is to make it a bit of a McGuffin, and allow for it to basically do what ever they want it to do, to suit what ever plans they have without having to give a Complex or Coherent Scientific take on it.
So while trying to simplify this, because doing a Total Genome Map would be lots off Data.... lets assume (which it is not) that a Human Genome and DNA is made up and converted to a Pattern, looking at this Pattern we may not look much different to say a APE... But there are sections of CODE that are different that make us Human, then that breaks into sections of Code that Determine many aspects of a Human, Eye Color, Hair Color Ethnicity etc.
So with Genetic Engineering you could look at the CODE that would say make a Person have Blue Eyes and Change that to Brown....
Now what if the Black Goo can be Programed to Target that Specific Data, well those who have that specific Trait.. so say Blue Eyes so that it only effects Organisms with this CODE then lets assume it can be Programed then to Hybrid the Whole Genome of a Target with the Blue Eyes CODE and Imprint on that Genetic Changes to Hybridize that Target with any desired effect of the Black Goo.
So only Blue Eyed People would be infected say like Fifield was... or you could Program it to Target Blue Eyed CODE Humans, and have those effected by Delete the Genomes that Give Sight... Thus making Blue Eyed Humans Blind.
Or have it so the Black Goo simply Target those Humans and Render all their Genetic Makeup into some Solid Calcified Structure... like we saw with the DEAD ENGINEERS bodys.
I am not saying this is HOW the Goo works... but that if it was some kind of Radical AI, that can have a unique effect on every Genome, then maybe it can be Programed to Specifically Target Organisms with a Certain Genome Code, and then apply a certain effect onto them.
The Radical AI revelation thus allows this to be more than a Creation Tool, if it can Target Specific Genomes, maybe when its given a Genome CODE to attack... it Does-Not effect other Organic Matter that does-not have this specific Targeted Code?
Such a concept for the Radical AI would allow them to explain away every EFFECT we see with the Black Goo, and not have to Question WHY those Engineers had not suffered the same effects as we saw in Prometheus..
So what i am saying is if we look at our Entire Genetic Make-up and Traits as a Massive CODE... and the Black Goo is a Tool to Reprogram that Code in many ways, then it really makes the Black Goo be able to do what ever the Studio Want when they contemplate how it will effect LIFE in future movies.
So looking at it like that, the Black Goo could be programed to have say TWO different effects on the TWO Sexes of a Species.. so it would affect a MALE in one way and FEMALE in another.
The Radical AI this allowing them to be LAZY as to allowing this Substance/Tool to do what ever they want... but in doing it also opens up its USE as UNLIMITED.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
But going back to what you said about all those various Life-Forms... then even if we IGNORE what i wrote prior.
And we assume the Black Goo just passes on Xenomorph like DNA to any Organism it infects, then indeed we could have Xeno-Hybrid Sharks, Dogs, and Insects etc... some of this had been explored with the Fire and Stone Comics.
But i think the Black Goo had more scope than that, in that it could take on/off traits of one Organism and Store these and Pass them onto another Target... so it could say Consume Traits of a Wolf, and then Replicate into a Substance that passes those Wolf Traits onto other Life-Forms, thus if it infected a Human we would get say a Werewolf.
Regarding the Plants... again it would be interesting and again Fire and Stone seemed to indicate this... but with Alien Covenant it was revealed it would ONLY infect Organic Material as in MEAT... and not plants... this does not mean it would not infect Fungi/Mold as they are Technically not Plants.
This would be ideal for a Bio-Weapon to Wipe the Slate Clean, but does mean limited to seeing Monstrous Alien Carnivorous or Toxic Parasitic Plant-Life. However indeed in the Concept work for the Earlier Draft to Alien Covenant (Paradise Lost) it showed Alien Plant-Life and so seeing such Alien Plants could be open to be explored in future, and maybe also as a result of the Black Goo.
Especially if its Radical AI nature means it can be Programed to EFFECT Plants or IGNORE Plant Matter.
Onto the various images of Space Stations and Tera-forming/Colonization, indeed this was a LARGE part of the Franchise, and opens up various kinds of Plots/Movies to explore that DONT revolve around the Black Goo or Xenomorphs or indeed revolve around such things.
Such as discovery of a dead like World... that they Terra-form but then discover some deadly left over Organism or remnants of the Black Goo, such as discover a Unexplored Black Goo Canister.
"The studio can produce large number of Alien tragedies as long as they create a meaningful story around this mystical even mythical creature."
The Athlete Wrestling with a Python Statue could be used in regards to Serpents in a number of ways, not restricted to say Norse Mythos of Thor and the Jörmungandr (Midgard World Serpent)
But we could also look at the Serpent Bearer Constellation Connection (Ophiuchus) which in some Mythos is where the KEY to Immortality Lies, and also the Seat of the Gods.
Its where a Source i had who claimed to have knowledge of a much earlier Prometheus 2 Draft, said that the Engineers Home-world, well where David and Dr Shaw were heading to as far as Constellation
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
If Im right, then it was said that the black goo can olny transform living biological organisms. Consequentually, If the black goo which is a radical form of AI, develops itself then it might transform non-biological forms as well, like David is. Could this mix of David and the black goo lead finally to the biomechanical design as we‘ve seen it in the first Alien?
At some point they have to go there, because we haven‘t seen that true gigeresque design in the prequel series. The chamber with the big head in Prometheus was just mechanical but similar to that Alien design. In Covenant, we were introduced to the biological design through Davids creations. I refer to the protomorph because it looked organif and not biomechanical. Will we finally see an evolution in the design?
Dave, I like what you have written very much.
"Unlimited number of Hybrids/Mutations from the Black Goo" - This is what the studio wants.
"McGuffin, Allow for it to basically do what ever they want it to do, to suit what ever plans they have without having to give a Complex or Coherent Scientific take on it" - This is ideal for a franchise
"And we assume the Black Goo just passes on Xenomorph like DNA to any Organism it infects, then indeed we could have Xeno-Hybrid Sharks, Dogs, and Insects etc..." - Any organism can be morphed into an alien-ish creature. Unlimited number of monsters. This is what the studio wants.
"Toxic Parasitic Plant-Life" - Plants can be very invasive species. This is ideal material for a longer television series.
Tera-forming/Colonization - Ideal subject for a movie or longer television series.
This is how I imagine a colonization story
1. The colonists arrive to a nice and friendly planet. This beautiful planet will be their new home.
2. They start to colonize the planet enthusiastically. Small towns, farms, plantations, workshops and outposts are under construction. Everything is awesome.
3. Disagreement arises among the people and/or androids. Someone unleashes an alien substance into the nature accidentally or deliberately.
4. The alien substance starts to transform every living organism (both animals and plants) on the planet gradually. The colonist ignore the warning signs at the beginning, because they have a "we can overcome this" mentality. (Wir schaffen das!) They experience more and more hardships, accidents and fatalities. The situation escalates into a serious crisis.
5. The conditions deteriorate to such an extent that they must abandon the planet and they need to evacuate it hastily.
6. The hopes and dreams of the colonists are crushed and their cherished home is lost. The planet has become uninhabitable for humans forever. The survivors must find another place to live.
This is a skeleton of a story. Add more conflicts, actions, horror, and drama to it and you will get a two-hour-long movie or a two-season television series.
I think its very plausible regarding the Xenomorphs Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic arriving from some kind of Synthetic Input, to cater for the Amalgamation of Biological and None-Biological Construction.
Especially when looking at the route that Alien Covenant had taken. We had discussed this before on here regarding the WALTER-MORPH and at this time prior to the release of the Movie, some of us speculated if this would be the route to the Xenomorph, this in part was because of Walter being considered a Doppelganger to David so he is NOT the same, but looks the same.. The Viral Marketing seemed to imply the Walter Model was constructed different to the David Models from the Prometheus Viral Campaign (however the Prometheus Marketing could be NULL and not cannon any more).
Alien Covenant seemed to imply Walter was Superior to David in every way apart from NOT being able to Think for himself/be free. The Walter Marketing did seem to show that Walter could be PARTIALLY Organic.
Thus a Synthetic Construct like Eldon from the Fire and Stone Series, whom could be INFECTED with the Black Goo, so we could wonder what if a Synthetic Construct was infected by a Face Hugger?
Could the Black Goo be programed to infect NONE Organic Matter? Maybe they could go this route now its some kind of Radical AI, but certainly if we are introduced to Synthetics that are Part-Organic then that surely opens the Door to these being a avenue for Horrific Bio-Mechanical Constructs.
Certainly is a avenue to explore, we have to Question if LV-223 is the ONLY place these Engineers had the Black Goo, and where the stuff Originates from. Then are LV-223, and now Planet 4 the only places this stuff has infected?
We dont quite know what becomes of Origae-6, this surely would be what a Alien Covenant sequel would explore or would have done.
So its quite open to Multiple Worlds that could have remnants of the Black Goo, be that its Origin, other Storage Facilities, or Crashed Juggernaught ships, or even just some Urns/Canisters that FAILED to go off.
Thats as far as places that could contain the Substance... we could also have other Worlds that have Mutated Life from the Effects of the Black Goo, not only in the form of Xenomorph like Monsters, but also like the Spores that brought about the Neomorphs.
The Source i had regarding Prometheus 2 claimed the Black Goo Originated from a Obelisk like structure, that was neither Rock/Metal and was Black in Color, and was Growing from the Ground (had Roots) and it Glowed Green.
It was supposed to represent the Prometheus Fire and Forbidden Fruit, and worked as the Tree of Life and Knowledge. From this Obelisk like Structure the Black Goo could be Extracted.
The Green Crystal in Prometheus was a Shard/Peace of this Obelisk that was STOLEN by the Engineers.
Without any acknowledgement by those working on the Project or Ridley Scott, or any of the Paglen/Green Drafts coming to light, then i cant say of this is TRUE at all.
However if we looked at this as where the Black Goo Originates then something like that would be interesting, if say these Obelisks are located on other worlds and what happens when some Human Explorers come across this and attempt to take samples of the Obelisk?
There was a lot of doubts to the Claims about this Obelisk/Tree of Life when i was passed on this information.
But looking at Ridley Scotts Seven Worlds Hennessy XO Advert
The opening Scene does show some Humanoids in a Cave, that Chisel away at rock, that then seeps out a Honey Like/Gold Goo Substance. But this could just be pure Coincidence and NOT being RS showing some ideas he had for the Prequels in this Advert.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Androids can not feel safe in space anymore.
Researchers have found bacterium and worms which consume plastic-based materials.
If a variant of the alien substance have a good appetite for plastic, then androids will have a very hard time. Large percentage of their body is made of plastic.
These bacterium can damage other equipments, and insulation materials as well. Damaged insulation shorts electric circuits which leads to fire.
The black goo may evolve into other more or less scary life forms.
They harm less.
Certainly there are some Organisms that have been discovered that can consume/degrade NONE Organic Material... some of these could be useful for taking care of the VAST Plastic Waste we have.... especially if these Organisms are Experimented on to provide more Efficient Results..
There is a potential Problem with this, should these Organisms if Engineered, get out of control and spread around the World and Infect/Consume other Plastic like Materials as that would cause CHAOS to a lot of our Technology and Construction Industries.
Imagine a Outbreak/Plague of Organisms Engineered, that do exactly that and Consume a Selection of Synthetic Materials, it could take us back to the Dark Ages, and RIGHT there you have a Plot for a Potential Movie ;)
Regarding the Black Goo, indeed if the Substance Mutates to be able to Infect Synthetic Molecules then that could be MASSIVE Problem for David.
I am more drawn to the Synthetic Hybrid route of Part Organic/Synthetic that would be infected with the Black Goo or Xenomorph... so DAVID would be SAFE!
However these NEW models would have a Advancement over Davids Construction and will he really be FINE with just ONE HAND?
And so Transcend his Soul into a Improved Synthetic Body is VERY likely... and IF this body is a Synthetic Construct (Part Organic/Synthetic) then this could prove a HUBRIS for David.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Thousands of colonists headed for origae 6. Thousands of eggs found on juggernaut. I think the whole ship ends up eggmorphed.
Possible... The prequels picked up unused concepts from the films so why not? It could look like in the picture of this forum above.
Its easy to assume this could be a likely PATH forwards, if we consider how David was in the Movie, and his Message to the Company in the Advent Viral Video. Especially when considering that Alien Covenant appeared to be showing us that David had Created the Xenomorph, and by Coincidence the Covenant has Thousands of Colonist.
We have the Cliff Hanger where David is in CONTROL of the Ship and it and its Colonist are Totally at the Mercy of what ever Agenda/Plan that David has.
However this is NOT quite what it appeared Ridley Scott may have had planned, because he wanted the Next Movie to NOT be about the Xenomorph, but about AI and what "Kind of a World" would David Create. Bare in mind we are NOT one movie from Alien, so a Simple Plot of the Covenant Ship becomes a Flying Xenomorph Hive is unlikely to have been what was NEXT.
However the kind of Plot it appears RS is hinting at, would appear to not have MANY of the Usual Traits of the Franchise, were as a Plot regarding David going on to experiment and Create Thousands of Eggs from those Colonist would fit the Traits a bit more.
Nothing is set in Stone, the Franchise is on HOLD... and so by the time and IF we do get any sequel or connecting movie to ALIEN, then what RS may have intended could be very different to what we could eventually get.
I feel Disney would want to pursue movies that are VERY connected with the Alien/Aliens Traits and Tropes as opposed to what Ridley Scott may have wanted to explore when he had Finished with Prometheus.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
That is totally fine, I like when different people start threads. Having some variation here is good I think.
“The Alien franchise is marked with this year an anniversary. 40 years ago, the first film in the series was released.”
One thing that is interesting for me is to see how much in quality the movies have fallen since Alien, with the exception of Alien 3. For me it is because after the original three they forgot how to make characters so the movies suffer from that.
“With a potential TV series in production and other releases such as comic and book releases this year, I want to discuss with you the traits of the film franchise.”
After Alien 3 most of the characters have become secondary since they do not have the same quality of the first three. Not even Ripley lived up to the first three in Alien resurrection. AR is worse than Covenant and Prometheus so that should tell you something.
Having new monsters is totally fine by me. It is interesting to see what kind of things that they can come up with. New characters (mainly) for every movie bothers me because that means that there is less reasons to get interested in the characters if we know that most of them will die (except for the fucking robot).
Androids do not interest me in the context of the franchise, the human adventure do. Still I think that it is interesting how far technology can take us and what advantages and disadvantages that might come from that but I am not interested in that in an alien movie since they are about other things to me. They can have the same, or the old, I don’t think too much about that.
The motifs can get a bit repetitive at times so hopefully they will introduce something new. Maybe instead of strong female characters they can make them less strong, at least so they are not like Ripley and make men and women more equally strong. I do not say that the women should be like Snow white (yuck!) but they do not need to be absurdly strong otherwise we will end up with characters like Rey that are not relatable, the same goes for the males too. All characters have flaws so make them more like that, that is my point.
“I think we can expect a sequel to Covenant.”
I am already worried, Scott only cares about David. I want relatable and well written human characters that I can support and care about, the rest comes after that but if Scott insists to still have it about David then we will have another disappointment (like Covenant in quality).
I agree with that Alien 4 is the weakest part in the series. Some months ago I watched Alien 3 but it wasn‘t so much fun anymore like the first time I watched it. Its always the same haunted-house scenario. Prometheus was fresh as it felt more like an adventure film. I like your aspect that new motifs should be introduced for example a variation of characters strenght. If there is an variation of the motifs, then the franchise could break up from its usual traits and become fresh and new. Secondary characters that appear in more than one film could be a start. So for the next one, I‘d like to see Daniels and Tenesse again. Because introducing new characters takes always time...
I read that Ridley Scott is currently working on a tv series called ‚Raised by Wolves‘ which is about androids raising human children on a mysterious planet. I thought about how it would be, if this is part of the Alien universe? Could the androids be from Weyland-Yutani and the children from a lost and forgotten colony? And the androids protecting them from monsters? Aliens?
Bringing other types of plot in would be worth a try, sure the haunted-house scenario still could be a basis. I was also disappointed when I watched Covenant, but I still enjoyed a lot of it. I think its all about the viewers expectations. If we would see a whole new crew and a different storyline, then we would be disappointed, but if it follows how we were left behind at the end of it, then I wouldn‘t be like Covenant. I‘m pretty sure that the fans will love the sequel, if it is how Scott described it... War of the worlds-scenario with engineers on a new planet, thousands of colonists and the juggernaut crashing consequentially? Sounds interesting!
Thoughts_Dreams As a fan of the Quadrilogy, I can understand and agree in some ways with why there is hate for everything after the first movie- and I am not calling you a hater.
I need to defend AR though. First, it helps me to think of the Quadrilogy as something different people were involved in over a long period of time. The basic way to look at the franchise is that A1 was horror; A2 was action; A3 was tragedy and A4 was comedy. I respectfully disagree about the characters of AR. I agree there were some forgettables, but the main cast was pretty solid and Ripley got to stretch out a bit by being a hybrid. I loved that dynamic of Ellen and a Xeno occupying the same body and mind. I also liked some of the comedic relief from Ryder and Pearlman. It should be remembered that AR had some of the most brutal scenes too- the Xenos killing their own to escape and Ripley's horrific discovery of the room with failed clones 1-7- killing herself in a strange kind of way. We should also remember these movies were all made at different times when certain things were in vogue. I can understand your points, but I am fine with the Quadrilogy warts and all.
I agree that the protagonist should start out not necessarily weak, but just not too confident and maybe a bit green. Gender doesn't matter much, but I would like to see a female be the one just to be consistent with tradition- that formula just works imo. Fortunately, we have Amanda at the ready!
Ash informed Ripley, Lambert & Parker that the Alien was a Survivor. That’s an important point as the Alien/Alien variant always appears to survive, in one form or another. (Note I’m omitting AVP & it’s sequel from this scenario, nuff said!)
ALIEN: Ripley jettisoned Big Chap out into space. It remained alive, not even appearing to be damaged, despite the harpoon & the thrust from the engines. Tumbled out into space.
Also notice how the Alien doesn't appear to be weightless in space? Probably the constraints of Special Effects at the time, but The Queen acted similarly in a vacuum.
ALIENS: Ditto, Queen jettisoned out the airlock, tumbles off screaming & screeching into outer space. Still alive.
ALIEN 3: Ah yes, this hypothesis now appears to fall flat. The baby Queen births as Ripley falls into the furnace, presumably dies. But here’s something to ponder, the Runner Alien survived the hot metal dump & rose from the furnace, it was only the rapid cooling of the water from the sprinklers which caused it to shatter into pieces. However unlikely, the baby Queen could theoretically have survived.
ALIEN RESURRECTION: Newborn sucked out the airlock in highly dramatic & excruciating way. Then all other Aliens presumably blown up when the Auriga explodes? However, we have the hybrid-clone in the form of Ripley remaining alive.
PROMETHEUS: Baby Deacon flexes his fine dental lineage over the body of the chestbusted engineer. Presumably still kicking around LV-223, or is he? Did he hop a Juggernaut following David & Shaw, fly a Juggernaut full of eggs to LV-426, or perhaps he fancied a longer trip out to Origae 6? Whatever, Baby D was a survivor too.
ALIEN: COVENANT: One Proto-morb gets taken out of the airlock impaled by the scoop of the giant truck, damaged but alive. Whilst the one who was hell bent on smashing Tennesse's sunroof appears to be destroyed by Daniels, falls out the cranes claw in acid dripping pieces, surely has to be dead? Right? Naw, Ridley tells us that it can regenerate, so it’s basically indestructible! It makes sense when you apply it to all of the above.
"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger
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