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We are NOT Alone! Or are we?

We are NOT Alone! Or are we?

BigDave

Jan-13-2019 4:42 PM

Came across this, how i missed this as it was from a few days ago...  But there has been a detection of a Strange Repeating Radio Signal from another Galaxy

Good Indication of LIFE (Radio Signals that seem not Natural) but its to early to Jump to Conclusions, as it could be caused by Natural Phenomenon.. but even if this is possible Proof of Intelligent Life in the Universe, its from over 1.5 Billion Light Years away.  Which means it would take EVEN the Nostromo 32 Million Years to Reach the Source.

https://www.theguardian.com/

https://www.nytimes.com

https://www.bbc.co.uk

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

21 Responses to We are NOT Alone! Or are we?

dk

Jan-13-2019 5:20 PM

Hopefully the transmission doesn't say "take me to your leader". They might be sorry.

I Raptus

Jan-13-2019 9:53 PM

It's since been translated as

"Look on my works, ye mighty, and Despair!. See ya soon. David 8" 

dk

Jan-13-2019 11:13 PM

It seems the 2015 short burst signals translate to "Test......Test...."

Lone

Jan-13-2019 11:40 PM

Haha

Or it's David blasting out The Entry of the Gods Into Valhalla from the Covenant!

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

ninXeno426

Jan-14-2019 2:00 AM

Almost all Alien pages and groups i follow on Facebook are in love with this news lol.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

BigDave

Jan-14-2019 8:08 AM

Its one of the Big Unknowns... unless we get more signals in Future and where we can maybe see a Pattern we could try and Translate into some Code.... it is open for Debate.

One thing is for sure is even if we had in say 10 years some Technology where we could Transport to that System in a INSTANT!  we could GO ANYWHERE in the Universe in a Blink of a Eye.

IF we went to that System 1.5 Billion Light years away, and a CIVILIZATION had sent that Signal... well there would likely be NOTHING there now!

Space is so VAST!  our System is a even less than a Grain of Sand/Dirt even on Mars!   If there was a ALIEN Race who could Travel anywhere in a Instant... thats not to say they would detect Earth out of the Billions and Billions of Systems... and so if this RACE was 1.5 Billion Light Years away and detected our Radio Signals... by the time they got them  we ON Earth would be 1.5 Billion Years in the Future.

And what would remain of Earth and Humanity then?

There is some FEAR by some, and a number of Sci-Fi movies have ran with this FEAR, that we should not be Broadcasting into Space.... because we could ALERT some Alien Species that we are HERE...

And if they are NOT Benevolent, then that could Spell our DOOM... Ridley Scott even mentioned about it a few years back.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jan-14-2019 9:07 AM

Back in the 90s, there was something people could download/ hook up to (SERTI? I forget the name.) Basically individuals' computers helped a larger server crunch data from space signals. Nothing was ever found and it seemed to just go away. I ditched it after it slowed my DSL down too much. 

I Raptus

Jan-14-2019 11:34 AM

ah yes the SETI screen-saver program. It helped data crunch while you got a cool screen saver that looked like you were in a sci-fi film doing important henchman stuff lol

dk

Jan-14-2019 8:59 PM

I Raptus 8 LOL! That is correct. If anything, it made time wasting appear productive. Look how busy we were frantically crunching data from deep space and...and...doing important work!

dk

Jan-14-2019 9:14 PM

IF we went to that System 1.5 Billion Light years away, and a CIVILIZATION had sent that Signal... well there would likely be NOTHING there now!

Nothing a few worm holes couldn't fix. Then again, it would ruin the franchise to adopt that mindset for the series. Personally, when things like that come up I try to roll with it and enjoy the ride.

BigDave

Jan-15-2019 9:53 AM

Certainly DK in context to the Franchise... i assumed the Engineers Possessed such Technology to Travel Way beyond what we could even Imagine...

We have to ask WHY would their Navigation Systems have Maps to Multiple Galaxies if they CANT travel to them.

These shows us the Engineers possess the ability to Travel to other Galaxies and to consider the closest to our own Galaxy is over 2.5 Million Light Years away which would take the Nostromo about 55'000 Years to reach.. 

I cant see the Engineers spending Many Thousands of Years in Cryo-sleep to Reach other Galaxies and so they must possess a way of Traverse Great Distances in a Much Shorter Space of Time.

Which i feel the writers for Prometheus Sequel had not taken into account and it was IMO a bit of a dumb/lazy move to have the Engineers Home-world right on our Door Step!

But i can understand why this was a Necessity (introduce Human Characters) but then we could ask... IS  the Earth the only place where HUMANS are in the Galaxy at the Time that Mankind on Earth had not set foot into Outer-space?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jan-15-2019 11:15 AM

The Crossing obviously suggested some sort of fast track mode of travel.

BigDave

Jan-15-2019 3:04 PM

To a degree.....

But bare in mind that shows something moving at Light Speed or Faster, which the Earth Ships in the Franchise are capable of.

We can Safely Speculate the Engineers Ship can Travel much much Faster, but how faster or HOW is another matter.

If my interpretation of the Above indicates the Green Dot, is 45'000 LY from the Red Dot which is our Solar System.  Then the Nostromo would take 950 Years or so to Travel that Distance...   i would assume the Engineers Ships would Travel Much Faster... we can only speculate but i would bet it would take NO-WHERE near 950 years.

Suppose it takes 50 years, 10 years, 5 years or a Year for a Engineer Ship.... either case it opens up the Vastness of our Galaxy to Easy Reach for the Engineers.

If Earth was just ONE of Thousands of Worlds the Engineers had been conducting their Creation upon, and they could Traverse the Galaxy within Years... (never mind Less).   Then i think it should have been SHOWN that David and Dr Shaw head off to the Engineers World that is Many Many Light Years away...

This would have kept the Events of what ever happens FAR AWAY from the Franchise... and we could have had Humans Discovered on the World David and Dr Shaw arrive at...

Its what i would have done, and what i was wanting to explore in my Prometheus 3.

I was going to explore this idea in a TOPIC...

 

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-15-2019 3:38 PM

Lets look at what Prometheus shows us...  it seems to indicate the Sacrificial Scene lead to our Creation, its open for debate what this means... it could be the Seeding of our World, (Ridley Scott indicates its just how they Seed Worlds so could be any place) but we can also consider it could be the Creation of some other Race, and from this we are Cherry Picked and Dropped off to Earth.

Regardless it shows us that a LOT of Effort and Time went into our Creation/Evolution to merely then Destroy us is INSANE.. unless this was to be done by a Faction who are Jealous of us.   IF our Creation Meant something and was a Big Investment by the Engineers, then to just Destroy us is not really Ideal!

If we look at GOD in the Bible... he wanted to Destroy Mankind too, and he did so with the Deluge/Flood.. But doing this would UNDO his Creation after the Pride and Effort he had put in to us.... HENCE he chose Noah to build his ARC!

If we look at DAVID and WALTER we are indicated that Walter is a Superior Model, but also a Model that Does-not have the Failures and potential Dangers/Rebellion of David which came because he had FREE-WILL.... it is Knowledge that Corrupts Mankind... Every Human is Born Innocent.. 

HITLER brought up in a different Environment would not have become the TYRANT he was...  The Prequels seem to indicate that Davids Upbringing and Treatment had a effect on what he became!

The Company Did-not abandon Synthetics.. they took the David Models, upgraded it a bit Synthetically, but its the AI that is drastically altered so the same Problems that we see happen with David would NOT be replicated in New Models.  A lot of Effort and Research went into David and the Synthetics, so they was NEVER abandoned, they just Re-made them without the Flaws..  Knowledge and Restrictions on this and Free-will which lead to Satan becoming Fallen, Mankind to become Fallen... and also David.

So back to Mankind... and the Engineers to me it seems to make more Sense that the Engineers would FIRST obtain some Humans even to just Produce Children and then KILL the Parents, so they then can take these Innocent Humans who have not become Corrupt and take them to another Place to Start-Again!  Make sure they can be Nurtured Better to not follow/lead to the same Mistakes that made them Deem Humans on Earth had to be Destroyed.   Then once they have in effect taken some Humans Away... they can then Destroy the Rest on Earth.

OR... maybe Mankind comes from some other place, and on Earth we came from another Place and was taken to Earth...so this way also.. the Engineers could Destroy us because we became Corrupt but knowing they have OTHER STOCK of Humans in the Galaxy.

Makes sense from the Engineers Point of View if they Valued Creation to be so Important.  And its the above that i was looking at with my Prometheus Sequel ideas..

Dr Shaw and David could have gone to another World where the Engineers have Seeded/Watched over Humans.   I had a number of ways to deal with this..

One was to have a World where a Few Engineers and Humans Lived in Harmony... The Humans Brought up with the Ways the Engineers intend...

David and Dr Shaw then Rock Up.... and you have to ask WHAT this does to those Humans if they are raised to believe they are the ONLY Humans in Existence...   Imagine what happens if these Humans learn of Dr Shaws Faith, of David and WHAT the Engineers get up to on LV-223.

The Engineers would not be pleased if they feel David and Dr Shaw could end up Corrupting this Paradise... and so things could TURN Ugly.... then David Unleashes HELL.

This formed the basis or similar for 2/3 of my ideas, the other 2 were different.....

Looking at these IDEAS.... i think this is NOT too FAR off what Ridley Scott was doing with Alien Covenants Sequel... in that David would (how i see it) he would deem Mankind had to GO for same reasons GOD did, and the Engineers, but he saw Potential in Mankind if it was not for HOW we had become Corrupt...

So David Engineers those Embryos to Improve us, and then Raises them from Children to then have his own Civilization where he acts in effect as King David, but also Noah to a degree and a Mosses kind of Figure..

And so we would have this Colony, who follow what ever Rules/Religion David has laid down and everything is in Harmony..... UNTIL a Human Mission Arrives, and David's Civilization gets to know about Earth/Mankind and David...  Once this happens he has to Protect his Colony from the Truth and Corruption and if its deemed to late... then he would have to Unleash the Wolves!

I was drawn to this from the Set-Up comments by RS about the movie being about AI and how Replicants are AI and WHAT KIND OF A WORLD it is that David would Create/Build.  This interpretation by me that led me to begin work on my Alien Covenant Sequel... which i discussed her a number of times a while back.

Many many Months before the Announcement of Ridley Scotts planned Raised by Wolves, which seemed to sound a bit like my ideas i had.  Now that more NEWS on Raised by Wolves has been announced it seems i was not FAR off in my Guess.... IF this TV Series is RS using ideas he had, that he FEARS wont make it because a Alien Covenant Sequel is in effect CANNED.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jan-15-2019 6:34 PM

That is a lot to consider. To the spirit of the OP, I would have to coldly say that based on verifiable evidence, there seems to be no reason to think we have intelligent company outside our planet as we know it.... I hate to say it, but like the after life, there is no proof at this time. I would welcome being proved wrong.

BioDegradable

Jan-15-2019 10:50 PM

BigDave

I think it is mostly futile to try and make sense of the imaginary world created on a screen with the current cosmological hypothesis - black holes, wormholes, space travel, aliens and all that. There is nothing common physically between that world and our world except for our imagination and insight at how certain characters would behave in hypothetical situations.

Again, we need to throw out most of our fundamental preconceptions and even reality out in the movie world. Because such hypotheses have no support in the movie - in fact, it has its own laws.

For instance, while Prometheus was traveling to its destination, David had the pleasure of displaying his basketball skills (or even walking)...how does he do it if there is no gravity while he is on a ship which was nowhere near the proximity of cosmic objects? Just recall how space travel is portrayed in 2001.

Just so that somebody says: "oh David is just full of permanent magnets in his body and the ship creates a magnetic field so he can walk same way as if he was on earth"...Well how does the basketball ball curves the space as if there is gravity which looks identical to what you have on earth? Do you go and say, "oh, the ship is so magnificent that it knows about the ball and creates a custom magnetic field so that the ball looks like to have inertia, weight(

Obviously, this is all absurd - objects in space, significantly away from planets/stars have negligible weight (and no weight relative to each other, provided they are sufficiently small), and yet in the movie this is just not so. So what can we say about how the laws of physics and reality work in the imaginary world the movies create and the world we live in? They are completely different worlds in many many aspects. The imaginary world is so contrived that you almost have to give up all rationality that we became used to living through. The imaginary world lays out its own foundations, and just so that we don't get alienated(pun not intended), because it asks us to suspend disbelief, it says - "well most of the things in space work the same way as on earth".

Therefore I would just abstain from theorizing how space travel works(and many other things) in the imaginary world - it is useless.

Instead we have to take onboard what is specified in the movie, unless it is left vague and free for interpretations.

take the space travel : engineers need their sleeping pods so they can travel the space and not die while they travel from a place to place - hence no wormholes - otherwise their map should be full of wormholes. They also have a map of the universe, so we can assume they can travel to all of them and in sensible amount of time - otherwise what is the point of having an object on the 3D map if you can't travel there at all(this question is posed in the movie world)? Absolutely none. Otherwise engineers are just shown to be smallish gods - helpless children, they can't even travel some of the planets/stars in the universe. They are not gods but some poor old buggers. This contradicts their depiction though in the movie. So they can travel anywhere in the universe. That is, there is nothing in the universe that is not known to them - they have been everywhere! Not a single planet/moon is unknown to them.

So much so for time travel, wormholes, speed of light etc. Just forget it - it doesn't work and is not worthy to go on about it.

Instead we should focus more on characters and the story told so far.

For instance we have David. We have engineers. And we know that engineers do not have AI, unless of course they are themselves AI, like David. Which they are not - they have identical makeup as humans, right?

Now, it is obvious to anyone who followed the movies, that AI is a product of a civilization which is only a few thousands years. So it is reasonable to think that they, engineers, had discovered it eons ago. But we do not see them make use of it. No robots, remotely operated even on a hazardous LV-223 lab - they had to do it all by hand, on their own, at their peril. Why? This is a question that is impossible to answer definitively. Also, we are shown that engineers are prone to chance events themselves - they had no foresight of the thing that exterminated them by their own actions. In other words, they are dumb. The only question is how dumb. This is not decided. Anyways, why no AI, synthetics specifically? Unknown. But we can take onboard that they don't see the use for it. What is more they don't like such beings! Just look at what the big boy did to David - he dismembered him and yet expressed absolutely no interest in him. None. This tells and confirms to me that he knew about synthetics - they are boring shit to him, useless. Moreover, such synthetic people, just like humans are potentially dangerous - after all David showed them in AC, how such a risk can materialize in their world.

So we can actually split the world of Alien/Engineers in opposing halves: in one you have these engineers in the other corner you have fellows like David(who is the peak of evolution of human civilization). And they can't seemingly co-exist. Engineers oppose fellows like David. While David was initially aspiring towards engineers but became disenchanted with them. In fact he discards them as useless, aggressive and considers them as a threat for his existence - so he did what he had to do in AC. It seems we are bound to have a conflict. Because, surely this is a clear-cut and incompatible parts of the world. The question is, where do humans and aliens fit into in this world? The aliens is easy - they can't stand other species, period - they are just ultimate killing machines. And they are cooked - they will do what they always do given a chance. (btw, we saw that the starfish, the trilobite wasn't so friendly towards engineers either). Humans are all over the place. Some wanted to go to engineers(Weyland, Shaw, Holloway and many others), others are not interested in these old people and would rather go back home(Vickers, the geologist, the biologist - Millburn&Fieffield, Ravel, Chance and others). Then we have fellows from AC : they just wanted another colony and ended up under David's control. David also inherited the embryos - who knows what he does with them. And finally, T and Daniels know what transpired on the planet.

 

So, if there are no other types of engineers or sections, who perhaps utilize technology and value synthetic forms of life, then David is going to wage a war on them forever. He is not going to serve in heaven no matter what - he had enough of that already with humans and Weyland as his owners - no way he will submit to anything organic. The question is open of course if he submits to alien-xenomorphs or do they co-exist. It is also not clear if he would be amicable to engineers who have AI, if there are such engineers.

But all this is unlikely - it seems we are bound to have a conflict between engineers and David. Btw, this could be an epic depiction which can actually gain traction with the mainstream movie-goers and therefore be an alley Disney might want to go to to cash in and make gains on their investment. This seems like a no-brainer. Now, we are left with what world would Ridley imagine David would create - this one I have no idea at all. But whatever it is, the previous financial outcomes of what came before ( P & AC ), and the march towards the inevitable(who the big calcified fellow is after all) dictate that half of the possible two hours next installment will be about the war. The question is : will Ridley allow himself to be bullied into such a tight space, at that tender age? Or perhaps he is a bit like David who had enough of bowing to studios? I think so - so I am not hopeful on any sequel any time soon.

Now, if we discard this meta level reality constraints, the movie still allows to explore many interesting concepts and ideas. Like trans-human soul transmission. Genetic manipulation (with a powerful agent) - the obvious next evolutionary step for organic humans. I am also in for a little war between David's xenomorphs and engineer's aliens(original xenomorphs) or black goo. I mean I am just curious who's children are more perfect after all - those perfected by AI or those coming from the fellows who lived for billions of years and have done things traditional way. I am also interested on what Daniels would do if she woke up to learn that David has "perfected" the embryos the way he sees fit and they build a cabin on the lake. Will she want to burn them all down? T will do it for her, no doubt - he is sort of fellow who can do anything, but then he is the fellow who can also decide to mate with one of David's children, so who knows. Just imagine: we are shown David has terraformed the planet, his children are roaming the planet, and all the while T & Daniels have been asleep. Something happens and they wake up. The hell do they do? With David around? What would humans from earth do? I have no doubt what engineers would do - for they were not so fond of David and those earthlings. And then of course comes the scary part - where do the aliens fit in.

Nice night for a walk : washday tomorrow, nothing clean, right?

The answer is irrelevant. Have a good journey...

BigDave

Jan-17-2019 1:43 PM

I think DK its one of those  situations where we could consider the odds, but the proof is in the pudding and there could be NO-WAY of telling if there is Intelligent Life out there certainly to our Level or Greater.  The more we explore our Neighborhood Solar System and find Traces of Organic Life or Evidence of Worlds that at ONE TIME had or have the Potential too support some kind of LIFE, then we have to consider that LIFE is not as RARE as we think.

But detecting any World that is near like Earth, let alone one that has Intelligent Life is something that we may NEVER be able to Prove/Detect in the near future.

The Largest Problem is the Vast Distances of Space..  We on Earth have been Purposely sending out Signals for Quite some time NOW... these signals that would be the First Indication to other Species that WE ARE HERE... Problem is lets say our Closest Alien Cousins are 700 Light Years away, they would not detect our Signals until the 27th Century and to then have a TWO Way Conversation would be a case of 700 years between each Reply... 

But back in Context of Sci-Fi, it is for the Convenience of Stories that we are able to Break the Speed of Light Barrier and Have Gravity on Ships... in Reality even at the point of THEORY in order to WARP Space and Generate a GRAVITY it would require Vast Amounts of Energy that even if it was possible the Technology/Machinery to do this would require a MASSIVE Ship.

Regarding Sci-Fi and Prometheus i think we can safely assume the Engineers possess Technology that is FAR more Advanced than even the Sulaco was.... so if the Sulaco reached LV-426 in 3 weeks, we could safely assume that David for Instance could have taken the Juggernaught to Earth within days or even hours.  I would say Hypothetically looking at the Maps of the Galaxies unless there are hidden Worm Holes that get them from Galaxy to Galaxy...   I would not be surprised if a 39 LY Distance would be covered in a very short time.

Which is WHY if felt it was not Necessary to have the Engineers Home-world so close to Earth...  But i understand it was Necessary to introduce Human Characters into the Plot, and in a Time-Line set within the 28 years that would Transpire from Prometheus to Alien.

My idea would have been to have David and Dr Shaw travel to either the Furthest Reaches of our Galaxy or even to another Galaxy completely, and allow for a Return Trip to where they ENDED up going, to take 100 years or more... so that it would not conflict with the Alien Franchise....

But how do we introduce Human Characters...?

The same as i have explained before...  do we consider Earth the only place that the Engineers had Human Civilizations?   Could our Origins had came from another World? Or could some of our Species be taken from Earth to other Worlds by the Engineers?

But then the Language Barrier would be a Problem.... surely they would not speak ENGLISH.. and i would have had it that Dr Shaw discovered some Ancient Language these Humans used that was similar to one of our Ancient Languages (i would assume Dr Shaw would know a few if she studied Ancient Cultures) but then there could be other ways to have her Learn the Language of by Heart...  Some Spiritual Telepathic Transfer.   Bit like the Vulcan Mind Meld.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-17-2019 1:53 PM

@BioDegradable

You raise some interesting points..... we can never be sure HOW Ancient the Engineers Culture is, so they maybe could have Seen/Created or been Created by Synthetic Life-Forms and so have a Good Reason to Fear them.

Then we can come to AI itself... in that AI does-not have to be Machine... many people think of AI as purely a Construction of None-Natural Materials.   But AI stands for Artificial and so there are a number of ways we could look at this and Ridley Scott even said that Batty was a AI... so it goes in RS mind beyond just a Machine..

So if David Manipulated those Human Embryos which is something i THREW out on this Forum to ponder Months before Ridley Scotts TV Show Raised by Wolves was announced..  Then in effect if he modified them, evolved them, then they would to a degree be Artificial.

When Ridley Scott called those Planet 4 Engineers the Originals, it gets me thinking does that mean the Prometheus Engineers are Engineered Versions or Sub-Created Versions of the Engineers and so the Prometheus Engineers to the Alien Covenant Engineers could be like Replicants are to Humans.

These are TWO things that i seem to think RS was going to show us....  Revelations between Engineer Types... and similarity to Humans and Davids Engineered Humans.

Certainly is a lot of Potential Avenues we could explore... but again they may be TOO-MUCH  a Distraction/Change from what most fans would expect a ALIEN movie to be about.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BioDegradable

Jan-17-2019 11:13 PM

from what most fans would expect a ALIEN movie to be about.

 

The best thing is that RS knows that fans do not matter to him on when it comes to choosing direction of the movies : he was always "ahead of the curve" by his own words anyways - when he described the possible fans outcry that P was not an alien movie. Then, he was unwilling to have the beast in the center of the movie - it is "cooked" and all that. And he was right, imo. Otherwise we get Ridley becoming Michael Bay and Aliens becoming Transformers. This is what fans want. Do you??? Of course, in the end he compromised, but only just. This all tells me Ridley is not catering to fans - he is all about exploring thought provoking motives in his movies - movies that will leave people talking, scratching heads. A slasher movie is not the sort of movie that would leave you pensive, thinking and so on.

So, I am all supportive of RS when he decides to be rather "bold" and thus "shuns" the "fans". They want the alien? Give them a discount on a next transformers ticket, but do not turn his movies to joke or santa barbara style soap opera either(John Connor, his progeny. Luke Skywalker, his progeny. Ripley her progeny). Instead focus on technology, evolution and good old sci-fi.

Nice night for a walk : washday tomorrow, nothing clean, right?

The answer is irrelevant. Have a good journey...

BigDave

Jan-19-2019 2:45 PM

Certainly....

I dont think the Prometheus Plot was there to set us down the path that these Engineers just decided to create LIFE on Earth a Investment of Great Time, and came back over and over to Evolve us Technologically, Genetically to then just decided to Pull the Plug on their Hard Work..

Or to have these Engineers be only Fascinated with the Xenomorph for Millions of Years...

Prometheus opened up a WHOLE New Universe of ideas to explore that would likely have NOT been the Alien Franchise Formula...  that Sadly seems to now be CLOSED OFF because FOX felt Fans wanted a Traditional Alien Franchise Formula.

At least Raised by Wolves seems interesting.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Jan-20-2019 3:06 PM

Great articles BigDave. I just caught your link to the cast announcement too, thank you.

What I like about the articles is how much we could be missing in regards to signals because we are looking at such a narrow band with our technology.

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