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Alien Awakening,Alien 5,AVP 3,or Alien Isolation?What's best for the future of Alien on film?

ninXeno426

Dec-29-2018 8:40 PM

Inspired by my other thread and various debates I've seen here as well as Facebook.Looking at these options which do you think would be the best for Alien's future?

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

70 Responses to Alien Awakening,Alien 5,AVP 3,or Alien Isolation?What's best for the future of Alien on film?

ignorantGuy

Dec-29-2018 11:02 PM

None of the above. As someone said before "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" or "sometimes to create you must first destroy".

Xenosaurian

Dec-30-2018 2:37 AM

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR 3 !!! <333

"Mommy always said there were no monsters, no real ones, but there are." - Newt, LV-426 Hide-and-Seek Champion

"God used beautiful mathematics in creating the world." - Paul Dirac

I Moon Girl

Dec-30-2018 5:45 AM

None of them.

I want to know the end of the prequels, so, personally, I want Alien: Awakening.

What's best for the franchise is an ALIEN 5, but it needs to be different.  ALIEN 5 needs to continue the story and not remove ALIEN3 or ALIEN: Resurrection.

I don't care if ALIEN 5 takes place between A3 and A4 or somehow fits in somewhere else in the franchise. A5 doesn't have to follow chronological order to me.  It just needs to be good.  Get a good writer and good director and I'm sure they can figure something out.

Or just get some fans to write some stuff for the franchise's next movie.  Just get a bunch of fans and put them in brainstorming groups to create something.  With streaming technology we have today, I don't think this would be a problem.  Mandatory acceptance into the group should require membership of some ALIEN franchise website, like scified.com and maybe some other things.  It sounds interesting to try for me.  Nobody should get paid because I think it would be an honor to just be a part of the project.

In short, rewrite ALIEN5 to continue the story. I think that's the best option for the franchise.

That's unless Ridley Scott can pull out another ALIEN1 with Alien: Awakening or, at best, another success, to me, as in Prometheus.

Ridley has made two fabulous movies for the franchise and from his words after Alien: Covenant, he might be able to do it again. 

Michelle Johnston

Dec-30-2018 10:37 AM

@ninXeno426

As I was part of the original audience that watched A L I E N and part of an audience that lifted the film into its iconic status I try not to offer what I think, but represent that audience.  

It remains an iconic film and its status as one of the best films of its type. However that does not mean you can keep on mining it. The Games and Comics it has spawned is a different energy and art form and whatever their success they do not lead to the idea you can carry on making movies. By the time of A3 the antagonist was W-Y the Alien Ripley and the creature a prize. 

As Gavin has said if you call a franchise Batman or Superman you mine that idea reinvent and can add depth, it will aways have three dimensional potential. The ALIEN was a very original special effect with a curious and mysterious history. It represents male rape, inverts the hosting of a child and then behaves like an act of retribution. Thats it. The only interesting question is why, and that ship has sailed.

We all know in order to inject life into the second film JC introduced a subtlety different view of the creature and immediately devalued its mystery and uniqueness.

Covenant proved that is no more interesting than what it was  in the first film except its behaviour lacks that all important element genuine surprise. Michael said he was glad at least they retained the notion of creation in Covenant by allowing the robot to create the Xenomorph. I have even heard people compare Robot and Xenomorph to the "New Prometheus - Frankenstein." Anyone who has read Mary Shelley's book knows that comparison is a travesty as well as inaccurate at a story telling level.

What he and Fox completely dropped the ball on is that the intrigue and dynamic of Creator and Creation is about the relationship between the two. The Xenomorph is a parasite with characteristics. It will either destroy David or sit down like a puppy for him there is no dynamic, no nuance, no subtlety there. Nothing like the dynamic of Mankind, with its sub created Robot in tow, meeting their makers and the huge philosophical issues that story could confront why this, why that, what about you, what does God look like. Paradise/Heaven/Soul etc etc 

However here is the really important point which never gets discussed on fan sites which are pre occupied by fabric, lore and so called plot holes. A film needs two things :-

1) A great story with characters we buy into and not characters that never make mistakes which is another demand of the modern audience. WE MAKE MISTAKES THATS WHAT WE DO its part of the human experience.

2) To be well crafted with good flow and logic pacing etc etc.

This year coming we will all be blessed to see in amongst the disappointments some fantastic examples of those things. In the main they will arise because the story is fresh, the tale engages us with its surprises and we learn something about ourselves and a little about the world we live in.

That will not come from face huggers, chest bursters, the big guy, a Machiavellian company and the bad robot.

I agree with Ignorant Guy move on and if people enjoy comics and games as a cult genre leave it at that.

I can say with some confidence the audience beyond the core feel Yes that was great ALIEN but not yet again thanks.

Now do millennials with their fears aspirations, where half your audience is woman and are MeToo do they want stories were mad robots rape and dissect a woman to create a Parasite unlikely. However in a world were all the norms are disintegrating, our enemy is our friend and A I is taking our jobs then playing with. "Who the f...  are we and where do we go and whats the point,"might hit the zeitgeist.  

I wish you a very happy new year and would encourage you to not worry a jot about Alien films and superior special effect from 40 years ago and look beyond, wait for the surprise hit, the something you have never considered, thats whats exciting.  

I Raptus

Dec-30-2018 4:46 PM

Michelle Johnston I agree, I think there is little left to mine from a film perspective (at least any time soon), as much as it saddens me.

The films have self-limited the available scope of the franchise and boxed any future films into a tight corner. Without a massive investment (eg. in say the form of fully-realised trilogy) to open up expand the franchise, there is little chance or getting anything but more of the same. Ridley tried exactly this, to break the mould with his prequels, but Fox got cold feet and bowed to negative reviews resulting in a ham-fisted, knee-jerked, try-to-please-everyone Alien Covenant. To Ridley's credit he did the best with what he was able, jamming it into a 2-hour film. And for the most part, it is an enjoyable film.

This type of creature feature genre will always follow the "overcoming the monster" basic plot structure (providing the Xenomorph is the central antagonistic force), BUT there is still countless stories that can be told in this universe without using the same tried and tested troupes.

The franchise needs a new platform to launch new and exciting stories from. Popular Streaming series like The Expanse, and the re-booted Lost in Space show it can be done and have benefitted hugely from the ability of the continuous screen-time streaming series allow. This allows developers ample opportunity to develop characters we care about, complex and interesting plots, hooks and cliffhangers that keep us engaged and theorising.  

 

 

ninXeno426

Dec-31-2018 1:36 AM

I personally just want to see the end of the prequels.Say what you want about them but David deserves that much.

I DON'T want Alien 5.Blomkamps film was cancelled long ago and needs be put to rest.Blomkamp has given up,though he continues to realize art work as if he's trying to catch Disney's eye.Mostly Alien 5 belonged to what has become one off Hollywoods dullest trends.Make that sequel to an old favorite "the one it always deserved."Put those acters in those roles and hope for the best.Mad Max And Blade Runner proved it can work(Mad max didn't have Mel Gibson to be fair)but on the other hand we have Indy 4(delete this film from the annals of history)Tron Legacy(decent...but forgettable,kinda like the original)New Star Wars(these are a really mixed bag)Terminator Genisys(hated but i actually like it)not to mention the one.Looking at all this i'm glad Alien didn't join these ranks

AVP 3...no...just no.So many want this,I've seen a rise in fandom for the first,but Reqieum should be an example of why not to make one.I'd like a new avp game,but on film they deserve to be forgotten.

Alien isolation movie i went over on a separate thread.A great game,but i think it would fall flat on film due to too many similar plot threads from Alien.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

Dec-31-2018 1:40 AM

I don't want anything from a streaming service if for no other reason than the fact streaming is outside my affordability range.I don't want to see Alien cheapened to a Netflix movie and definitely do not want a series.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Xenotaris

Dec-31-2018 4:47 AM

The AVP movies were terrible, especially the first movie. I'm glad Requiem pulled the plug on that continuity. Before AVP (2004) release, all of the alien and predator movies were consistent to their core theme and genre. While Alien bounced back and forth between Horror and Action Horror, it still retains that the xenomorphs were an ever present threat and an unstoppable killing machine.

Predator was an action movie that slowly shifted to a survival horror when all of Dutch's men were being killed off one by one and when Harrigan slowly discovered Danny's killer was alien hunter. The Predators were seemingly unstoppable foe: equipped with an arsenal of  advanced gadgetry.

These two franchises worked better at being stand-alone movies. AVP messed it all up, it became more or less a Kaiju movie and threw out the elements that made the Xenomorphs and Yaut'ja scary in the first place. The Predators were badly equipped (even for a young blood), the xenomorphs were degraded to cannon fodder (before you mention Aliens, it was the colonial marines who where xeno-fodder, the xenos in that movie were still a wave of unstoppable death), the setting taking place on earth and in the present day and all of the retcons that go with it (Predators no long seek warm climates and hunt the local prey, now only go after a heat signature to kill xenos). 

In conclusion: AVP sucked, Alien and Predator should be stand-alone universes at least movie-wise.

 

Michelle Johnston

Dec-31-2018 4:28 PM

@I Raptus 8

I just wanted to say publicly I took a lot of pleasure from reading your contribution. The perfect example of a post. Responsive, to the point and made in a very positive manor. I took particular pleasure from your phrase "Self Limiting" I use the phrase."Alien Straight Jacket." 

 

dk

Dec-31-2018 6:28 PM

Some people may not like or have access to streaming, but look how the last two movies (and let's throw Predator in as well) just didn't get the box office results most fans expected or wished to see. It's hard to blame a company for being wary of another venture. 

Iraptus said it and we have discussed it before but it bears mentioning again- streaming allows time to develop characters and stories that no cinema movie (I know of) could possibly match in a 2 hour experience.  

Michelle Johnston

Dec-31-2018 11:52 PM

@ninXeno426

I can understand why someone might want a further movie in the prequel series and it may seem very aggressive to say, as I do, no more thank you very much but I have a specific reason and I will explain it as briefly as I can.

Michael Fassbender's interpretation of David in Prometheus is about two overriding qualities:-

1) His curiosity for knowledge including the one thing he supposedly lacks a soul, as Michael said he is knowledge but he lacks meaning. 

2) His cognitive experiences in his very different relationships with Weyland and Elizabeth the latter of which was very nuanced and many layered. There are four scenes where he is learning to feel how to react with her before he begins to "fall apart" in his desire for Weyland's death. Thats not to mention the very intimate contact through the dream visor. It is clear that he plays David with a crush on Elizabeth in The Crossing and Noomi confirmed in a video IV, so no chance for misinterpretation, that she was directed by Ridley on the basis she was dying from the consequences of the mutagen. This was a bitter sweet ending to their relationship a far cry from the rape and dissection of the second act which I found emblematic of the fall from grace of the entire story.

This the eight upgrade of a cybernetic creature, utterly brilliant able to appreciate art in a way his 'father' was never able. He was rescued from an eternity of isolation until his power cells gave out by the one person who sought meaning in a way he did and I am suppose to believe he used her organs to produce a parasite and live in a cave and then turned into some kind of mad Nazi with his delusion of a master race no thanks. To be honest ending up as the Space Jockey and busted by insemination by Daniels the Queen would be the ultimate ribbing by Ridley of the entire franchise. He directed Covenant passive aggressively (I'll give them f...... Aliens) imagine the follow up.       

I think it is also entirely implausible that Fox/Disney would now entertain another switch where suddenly Origae 6 is some kind of sub Bladerunner Story.

So either David as the Jockey or Alien completely hijacked by Bladerunner would have the monster centric AVP audience foaming at the mouth without the aid of a droplet of the pathogen.       

To Summarise 

Whilst I have a profound sense of betrayal at the loss of the audacity of Prometheus I accept that is a very personal view.

I can only imagine what goes through the mind of any one who finds David interesting at this stage of the narrative. Mad dysfunctional, now sexualised and with a desire to wipe everything out as his only purpose which ironically puts him in competition with his creation. A race to the bottom you might say. I would imagine you have got to be pretty angry to cheer that on.  

Based on that thought I can see an executive looking over his glasses and saying for christ's sake bring a script with someone call Ripley in it. We need something relatable got it!

Which explains why I say lets find the door.

 

Steve Brungus

Jan-01-2019 6:24 PM

What first needs to happen is Ridley needs to let the franchise go. Give it to someone else. I don't think Blomkamp would be a good director for it b/c he's a fan boy. Liked his story idea though..it just needs to be handed to a fresh set of hands. Fox does have a successful franchise in the rebooted Apes trilogy and that's because they trusted to director and the people involved.

For now, Godzilla, that strangely innocent and tragic monster, has gone to earth. Whether he returns or not or is never again seen by human eyes, the things he has taught us remain.

ninXeno426

Jan-01-2019 7:42 PM

I agree Ridley needs to move on.I'd try Alex Garland,Screen writer of 28 Days Later,Sunshine,Dredd,and director of Ex Machina and Annihilation (which i sadly have not seen yet)

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

dk

Jan-02-2019 2:02 AM

I agree and this may sound like a strange comparison. Star Trek went decades with different iterations and cast changes while keeping its over all roots. When it seemed worn out, along came Orville and breathed new life into the Star Trek spirit while being its own thing. I see no reason why the Alien Franchise couldn't go this route. 

Steve Brungus is right- Scott needs to give it up and pass the torch. His son made at least one teaser for AC that developed characters in a few minutes better than the movie proper. 

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-02-2019 4:33 AM

Hmm, that is a tough question to answer. What I don’t want is another David movie, at least that is something that I know. As long as the characters are interesting and the beast is kept in the shadows it could work, oh and less focus on androids.

As far as finishing the prequels it could be interesting but I am not like “Oh I must have another prequel to see how it all turns out”. Since we got Alien Covenant I am very much in doubt if they will be able to finish the prequels in a way that is satisfying since it is not very good. Unfortunately another Ridley movie would mean much more of David and that would be disappointing so I do not want that. No more David movies, I am tired of it. He could work if there are people that we can care for but now he is the full story and I don’t think that Ridley would change it so no thanks.

The thing about getting more information about Weyland Yutani could be interesting but as far as I know that is not in the form of a movie. Maybe the sort of expanded universe (comics, TV-shows, maybe cartoons if they are well done enough) is the best for the franchise.

By the way if they do an Alien 5 then they better not retcon Alien 3 because if they do I will be very disappointed. Ripley died in Alien 3 and that’s that. Even though they will not erase A3 with 5 I am still not very interested, just let it be. Also I wonder how many that would be interested in general outside of the intense alien fandom, I do not know.

Xenotaris mentioned the AVP's, which is interesting. Since we are talking about the franchise I think that we can bring up the failures too. I got to say that as bad as they were AVP was at least not painful to watch. AVPR is a huge piece of crap and is the only total failure that they have done in the franchise this far. Even AR and the prequels are good compared to that one. To me it seems like they thought that they were cool monsters so let's have them in the same movie so we will get some profits even though they did not think about the scripts and we got what we have. You got to think about how you use them and in what kind of context otherwise you will get a Jar-Jar Binks, something that does not help the story and that is mostly an obstacle.

I agree with the two point list that Michelle did, not very interested in the AI thing though. That is a little funny that Alien Isolation’s abbreviation is AI (LOL).

Yeah about streaming services, I don't use any of that but good for those that do. I hope that you will enjoy a streaming TV-series of Alien if you will get one.

"So either David as the Jockey or Alien completely hijacked by Bladerunner would have the monster centric AVP audience foaming at the mouth without the aid of a droplet of the pathogen." - Michelle J

I would really despise that, they have already done enough damage to the franchise already. Do not eff it up more than already has been done. Prometheus could have been expanded on, at least the Engineers was a part that I enjoyed. Mostly under-developed characters was its downfall. Keep the Bladerunner thing to that movie, do not put it into the Alien franchise because that is one of the reasons why AC effed up so screw it.

"Mad dysfunctional, now sexualised and with a desire to wipe everything out as his only purpose which ironically puts him in competition with his creation."

Ha ha ha! I do not want to scream at it so I have turned my disappointment into laughter but that describes the David in Alien Covenant very well. Alien Covenant was too much about David so that is one of the reasons why AC did not work.

"We need something relatable got it!"

Yup, as long as they have not found that we are screwed and will get more bad to average things.

Unfortunately I do not trust Scott with another movie, it would probably be more David. Give it to someone that understands that it is not about androids and that is about human characters above anything else. Once you understand the importance of characters in the genre (which Scott doesn’t it seems), only then I think will it become a good horror movie but until that day comes we (the audience) are screwed.

BigDave

Jan-02-2019 4:46 PM

I feel it would be HARD to leave the Prequels in Limbo!

Some will still want to know HOW those Eggs got on that DERELICT and many would be wishing it wont have anything to do with DAVID.

They created the PROBLEMS via the Prequels by going the Chariots of the Gods, Religion, Soul and all that Philosophical stuff with more context to  Mankind and our Humanoid Creators...  Interesting and BOLD... but a FAR CRY from the ALIEN HP Lovecraftian ideas that could have been explored instead. 

The Path of Prometheus opened up some possibilities however the PROBLEM... is how do you expand upon this and FINDING our Makers without Conflicting with the Franchise (were would a WAR OF THE WORLDS fit into the Aliens ==> Alien Resurrection Timeline?).

Going the route to expand upon the ARC of the Characters of David and Dr Shaw and HOW they could have changed, and WHAT they could have discovered is something that could potentially have many outcomes... it produces a PROBLEM in that however they executed this.. may not please what every fan would have expected...

People would also have wanted to HAVE those Xenomorph Answers, especially to WHEN/HOW/WHERE they was Discovered/Created and this could have been loosely covered in a Sequel, that would touch upon more about David/Dr Shaw but more so the ENGINEERS and purpose of Creation.

The decision to give us a Literal Prequel to ALIEN by having the events that transpire after Prometheus would lead to the DERELICT in Alien... Literally (means NO XENOMORPHS prior to the sequel to Prometheus). is simply a BAD CHOICE!

Then the way the Xenomorph was shoe-horned and dealt with did it NO JUSTICE the way Dr Shaw and the Engineers were Dealt with did-them NO JUSTICE

We are now left with the Franchise being about David and how he and AI will connect to the Weyland-Yutani company and Special Order 937 and the Xenomorph Eggs on the Derelict.  I understand the ARC of David and find it fitting, but i also think his ARC was rushed... its like as if we had a WHOLE movie missing about how we got from David A in Prometheus to David Z in Alien Covenant,  we got some details of what he became, but i felt it deserved more and the MAIN thing now is so many people are Disinterested in David, that its hard to NOW PIN the Prequels on him as far as being the Main GUY

Introducing the Xenomorphs again may only please Fanboys and if DONE WRONG could totally COOK the Beast.  Interest in the Engineers could work but its HOW and IF its done right, the Company too... but anything that revolves around AI seem something that a Majority of Fans are not interested in.  (By AI i dont mean David).

We have to stop throwing things under the BUS/CARPET if they feel they may not be of interest....  when things could be evolved and changed... the Engineers/Dr Shaw could have been explored and with the right Story it could have WORKED

Giving up on David and killing him off may please some, but it could potentially be a loss as far as HOW they could have explored his Character, but a lot of the SET-UP has painted his Character into a Corner....  

Killing off David, and bringing back the Engineers and Weyland Yutani may work... but if they $"%£$^ THAT up then there really is NOTHING that can help the Franchise.

No Bringing Queens or Ripley wont save it too!

so we are in a Right Pickle.... were what ever route they take with a Alien Covenant Sequel is likely to only please at best One 3rd of the Fanbase and Piss-off the other Two 3rds.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-02-2019 5:06 PM

So what are the OPTIONS?

Ret-con the Prequels?

I dont fancy that idea.... especially if the Ret-con is a MESS and also would a Reboot carry over the ideas that were redeeming from the Prequels... or give us a more ALIENS outlook on a Prequel?

Leave the Prequels a Mystery....

Were we can all Pretend the thought of the Xenomorph being a more recent Creation by a Mad Robot NEVER happened?

But then some would still want more answers to the Space Jockey and Derelict... answers that are FAR different to the route we seemed on!

I think the BEST option as of NOW would be to introduce a Parallel Prequel a movie set AFTER the year 2105 but certainly prior to 2079.   A Movie that could deal in part with either/both of what becomes of the Covenant/Origae-6 or LV-223.... one that can give us some answers to what becomes of Davids Creation.... or a Re-visit to LV-223 where we can get clues to suggest the Xenomorph existed prior...

a Set of Movies that would indicated David Perfects the Xenomorph.... but this Perfection is LOST... leaving the Company to Peruse the Original on the Derelict in ALIEN.

All of this could have been AVOIDED! if they had gone a different sequel route to Prometheus!

Mission to LV-223 to give us a more Alieny yet Fresh Movie, that would give more clues to the Xenomorph as a Ancient Event.  Leading to a Ending that acts as a Prologue to where David and Dr Shaw are heading!

Which we have to ASK... does Paradise have to be so close to Earth, is Earth the only place were Humans Live?   Its understanding WHY Paradise was LOST and why we had events like the Great Flood, and in context why the Engineers would want to Destroy their Creation.. that opens up the Door to what the Paradise David and Dr Shaw discover could be.   We need in that Context to only look at if you was GOD after the Fall of Adam and Eve... was the Action GOD had taken the only ONE he could have done?

So David is Failed/Dangerous Creation... they never Destroyed all Androids and Abandoned them... they created Walter...  in all these instances KNOWLEDGE is KEY!

And i feel this is something Alien Awakening and indeed RS Raised by Wolves could be touching on...   HITLER was a Evil SOB..... but what if you had the Frozen Embryo of HITLER and he was raised in a different Environment?

My point being.... the Scope of Prometheus is much Larger than to Shoe-horn in the Engineers Homeworld being so close to Earth!

But how do we have Human Characters if Paradise is say 10'000+ Light Years away?   Well would you abandon Mankind purely because of the Flaws of a Few?

Or do you take some to Re-Engineer and Re-Start again?

The Problem with discovering a World with a Few Engineers and other Humanoids including Humans would be HOW would they speak English!    They could have come up with some way to have Dr Shaw be able to understand a more Ancient Dialect via some Device or Memory Transfer....  so we only need SUBTITLES a bit!

A Plot where David could then bring HELL to Paradise could have opened up Retribution to Earth many years after the events of Aliens or even Alien Resurrection...

Because David could have been gone for over 100 Years!

Shoe-horn Paradise close to LV-223 and thus Earth for the sakes of Introducing a Direct Prequel Series that introduces the Xenomorph Origins as post 2095 was a MISTAKE!

BUT ALAS... what is done is done!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-02-2019 5:11 PM

Blomkamps Alien 5 had some good ideas... we have to remember it never originally would have had Ripley and Co... and so a Alien 5 that is set after Alien 3 and prior to Alien R could work.... provided they dont go the alternative Alien 3 route!

Hicks and Newt are DEAD!

But there is scope to continue with Ripley.. IF they continue with Ripley 8  i have a idea for that i have shared a few times... one that by-pass her Age, show what the Xenomorph DNA is capable of, and show the Philosophy of Prometheus and Ultimately the Price of Creation/Sub-Creation.

Revealing the True Agenda of CALL and the Autons.

Regarding AVP3

I think the AVP Plot was a Mess!  The Video Games Plot and Time-Line is better and so a REBOOT of the AVP Franchise to tie it into the Time-line of post 2050 would be the way to go and IF done right would make a decent Pop-Corn Flick... that is maybe the Less Risky and more Profit route for Disney to continue the Franchises.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-04-2019 6:40 AM

I think what ever choice is made, we then have to come to a Decision about WHAT do we leave a MYSTERY and WHAT needs to be Answered.

ALIEN left some Mysteries, but the PREQUELS had opened up a lot of things, that lead to Conflicts and a lot of Questions...

Before the Prequels...  we was left with the Xenomorph being a Cargo aboard a ALIEN Ship, that was located on a Moon some 39LY from Earth...   Mankind (not on Record) had NOT encountered anything like this Alien Organism, or the Species that was Piloting the Ship....

We was left to assume that Mankind had No Idea where this SHIP and its CARGO and Pilot had came from, it seemed certainly there was NO OTHER Ships or Traces of the Space Jockey in the explored Universe that Mankind had managed by the year 2179 or even 100 Years after.

Which logically gave us the Reasons they would continue to pursue the Xenomorph on LV-426....  then Ripley after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope!

So it was SIMPLE.... the Prequels NOW leave us asking WHY go back to LV-426 after 2122, WHY pursue Ripley and WHY by the year 2379 is Ripleys DNA the only means they have of trying to Extract the Bio-Weapon that is the DNA

Things like LV-223, Planet 4, Origae-6, the Covenant Ship, David, the Engineers (do they return and from where) are all things that would come to mind, when we DO make another Movie.

My point being if we make another Movie, what Time-Line are we talking?   And if we say after Alien but prior to Aliens... where we are again introduced to Xenomorphs... would going back to LV-426 and the Derelict just be retreading over the same thing thats been done over and over?

If we do such a thing.... do we leave what happens after AC a Mystery, were Fans can them think to themselves that the Derelict and Cargo is Ancient, and Davids Xenomorphs are not the same.... do we leave it that OPEN?

Or do those working on the Project take a look at the Xenomorph Origins and have the Exact Idea of where they came from.... and which ever route they RUN with, do they give us Clues that either draw us to ONE or the OTHER or that help to discount ONE or the OTHER?

There are many Avenues that a Future movie could explore, that Does-Not have to RETCON anything... Does-Not have to give us RIPLEY and that Does-Not have to Literally show us those Eggs getting on the Derelict and the Space Jockey getting infected.

I would say WHATEVER Movie they do... (provided its no Reboot of any of the Movies) i feel be it a Sequel to AC that happens directly after... or a Aftermath... for example in effect Alien Covenant is actually Prometheus 3 and so instead of giving us a Alien Covenant 2 it could be more simple to give us a movie set AFTER what Alien Covenant 2 would have been.   Or if they dont even touch a Literal Sequel but go for a Parallel Plot  another Movie set either between 2095-2105 or 2105-2120.   I feel which ever route they could take and even if they make it a Sequel to Alien Resurrection or even a movie set after this Time Period.

I feel whatever Movie is made should have some Clues/Indication that either Solidifies or Guides us to confirm the Xenomorph Eggs on the Derelict were either there BEFORE the events of Prometheus... or AFTER the events of Prometheus.

But this does-not mean we have to literally see any such events...     even a simply dialog could clear things up.

MELKONIS

We had tried to replicate the Xenomorph Strain that David had created, but after the Destruction of Planet 4 and LV-223 we dont have the means to unlock the Secrets David had discovered.

STANDARD

So what are our options?

MELKONIS

We have determined that our only option would be to try and obtain the Organism that the Engineers Created on LV-426


STANDARD

Do you think we could control these Xenomorphs, can we Evolve them like the Specimens David had created?

MELKONIS

I am not sure we can, but using Davids Notes maybe we can Extract the DNA and Engineer Qualities from it.

STANDARD

If only we knew were else those Engineers may have kept their Pathogen, it would saved us so much time!

--------------------

This would indicate that the Xenomorphs on LV-426 are Ancient, and David Re-created them... it would also indicate that at some point the Company could not obtain anything related to the Engineers Experiments and Bio-weapons on any place but LV-426 and it would indicate the Company are hopeful via the Xenomorph they can maybe find a way to discover how to Re-Create the Pathogen that allowed the Engineers and David to Create/Evolve so much.

Shows a Simple Short Scene/Dialog can clear so much up, while also leaving so much Mystery intact!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Chris

Jan-05-2019 3:22 PM

Honestly, I think the franchise needs to revert to where it was going with Prometheus - expansion and new exploration. We need a fresh look at this timeless franchise and Prometheus did a great job of setting that up. Covenant was a step backwards, Alien 5 would be a deviation, AvP 3 would not work (yet) and games just would not do the franchise enough justice, canonically.

We need Scott to finish his vision and not be swayed by the opinions of those of us who refuse change. The beast is not cooked, but it's just not that interesting anymore. We know too much about it. I want to see what David does - I want to see his arc continue and I want to see the Engineers come back - discover what he's done and follow his trail to LV-426 or wherever they meet.

So, Alien Awakening gets my vote!

BigDave

Jan-07-2019 8:19 AM

I think the BIG PROBLEM... is a majority of the Fanbase are more in tune with Camerons Aliens and how the Xenomorph was used in the many Games, Novels and Comics.

The Prequels starting with Prometheus did offer something a bit NEW... but i feel while this idea was accepted by some of the fanbase, more so ALIEN fans, it was never quite what a lot of Fans expected....  a Prometheus 2 would likely have lost a number of the Fanbase that had gone to see Prometheus expecting it to be more Alieny...

The Problem with Alien Covenant was it had tried to please some of those who wanted a more Alieny Prequel, yet it never delivered that Aliens or Alien vibe as far as the Xenomorph was used...  It threw a lot of what Prometheus Fans expected under the BUS and was more about David and his ARC and how this connects to the Prometheus themes and Weyland.. 

It seems everything else was thrown to the wayside.... the Problem is this Sacrificed a number of things Prometheus Fans wanted, but retained some of it... but it also Sacrificed the Xenomorph by being something that is FAR from what people assumed prior to Alien Covenant (Creation of a Mad Robot).

Any sequel would HINGE on setting up HOW/WHEN those Eggs get onto the Derelict, and a lot of Fans would be hoping that its not via Davids Abomination.  With Ridley Scott suggesting the NEXT Movie would not be about Xenomorphs but about AI...

This means those wanting to get to such a Conclusion, and Climax would have to first sit through 2 hours of Ridley Scotts David/AI movie and its Philosophical Themes before we are then brought into seeing HOW things tie up to the Weyland-Yutani Company its Agenda and Special Order 937, we get the Engineers Return and NO DOUBT we see the Xenomorph Arrive! 

This 3rd Alien Covenant Movie and 4th Prequel would be the Climax the War of the Worlds Maybe (or set up for such).   But before we get to THAT JUNCTURE we would get a Movie that i am not sure a lot of Alien Franchise Fans would be keen on seeing....  

SADLY....  i am not sure too many would be interested in such a Venture, and if such a Venture was to not make very much Money, it would leave the Chances of getting the Conclusion that would be more about the Xenomorph and Engineers and Companies Greed... in LIMBO.

I would be interested in seeing where RS takes us next... but it would be something thats a distraction from what the ALIEN Franchise is expected to be about.... NO SOON as they gave us a ALIEN Prefix and how we would eventually be heading to the Back-Door of ALIEN... then Fans are going to expect the next one to be more ALIENY... less David and Certainly that he DOES-NOT create the Xenomorph.

This is all because of caving in to introduce us a Literal Path to ALIEN and the Xenomorph, rather than to Steer-Away...

Prometheus was intended as a BRIDGE were we have the following...

Alien Franchise <== Prometheus ==> Something New

But because Prometheus did not give enough to satisfy any connections to ALIEN for many... it meant they Sacrificed this something NEW... to bring about a literal Prequel Series to ALIEN.

I think we need a Novel to act as a Bridge Between Prometheus and Alien Covenant... set in those 10 years... then another set between Alien Covenants intended Sequel, leading us to the Climax of the Sequel... were the NEXT movie should then take over..

So we essentially have...

Prometheus. MOVIE

Prometheus 2.5 aka Crossing NOVEL.

Alien Covenant MOVIE

Alien Covenant 2  NOVEL

Alien Direct Prequel MOVIE

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jan-07-2019 9:29 PM

It wasn't possible in the late 1970s, but it is now possible to work in the giant egg silo HR Giger made. Most probably don't care about it. The scale of that area was way off form the derelict- it is a matter of fact the forum has beaten to death. I don't want to open up old wounds, but that whole egg thing and then seeing canisters in Prometheus is problematic and needs some explaining.

It seems like the next one should do that while also being a prequel including Prometheus and AC- some weird series/way of doing it RS talked about a few years ago.

Xenotaris

Jan-08-2019 9:17 PM

@Thoughts Dreams

I did mentioned that both AVP movies DIDN'T feel like either ALIEN nor PREDATOR. AVP, both AVP (2004) and Requiem felt more akin to a Kaiju flick than anything close to ALIEN or PREDATOR hence why AVP (2004) also sucked. Requiem did us True ALIEN and Predator fans a favor and ended that mock-kaiju flick started by AVP (2004) and I bet if Paul W S Anderson had a choice to make more AVP movies they would have continued to be dumb action Kaiju flicks.

 

dk

Jan-08-2019 9:23 PM

 "Requiem did us True ALIEN and Predator fans a favor"

LOL! I never imagined anyone would write that for any reason ever. Context- I know but still...

Docking Ship

Jan-10-2019 8:19 AM

@Chris Yup

"Honestly, I think the franchise needs to revert to where it was going with Prometheus - expansion and new exploration. We need a fresh look at this timeless franchise and Prometheus did a great job of setting that up. Covenant was a step backwards, Alien 5 would be a deviation, AvP 3 would not work (yet) and games just would not do the franchise enough justice, canonically.

We need Scott to finish his vision and not be swayed by the opinions of those of us who refuse change. The beast is not cooked, but it's just not that interesting anymore. We know too much about it. I want to see what David does - I want to see his arc continue and I want to see the Engineers come back - discover what he's done and follow his trail to LV-426 or wherever they meet.

So, Alien Awakening gets my vote!"

BigDave

Jan-10-2019 8:59 AM

The Egg Silo is a interesting thing.... DK

But i think this would just be down to a Oversight and we would have to suspend our disbelieve on this one.

" I don't want to open up old wounds, but that whole egg thing and then seeing canisters in Prometheus is problematic and needs some explaining"

Certainly and RS had explained the whole Derelict event before.  his more recent comments on the subject was something EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold..... is this to lead us to the Cargo was ONCE just Urns... i find Urns turning into Eggs something hard to swallow.

Alien left us with a number of things to ponder, one being the HOLE that Kane Descended down..... this leads some to speculate the Chest Burster was a Queen and then went down and Laid all those Eggs!

What was in the Cargo Hold Prior?  Urns? Empty?  I think the Protective Mist Barrier is what we should be concentrating on and i have ALWAYS felt that the Ship had a EGG Cargo that had been Placed on the Ship prior to the Space Jockey Event....

Regarding the AVP movies.... the Biggest Problem was by trying to make them take place in our Time-Line... instead of the Time-Line the Games had them set in!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

Jan-10-2019 9:16 AM

Docking Ship There was/is no RS vision he just makes shit up as he goes and reacts. Of course there is also his "love" of Fastbender. Ridley Scott is a director of the "cool" and his idea of profound is a bunch of cliches and half-backed.

I'd rather see a completely new story without the beast, space marines,  evil/nazi androids, evil corporations and such. Is too much to ask for something that tells meaningful about the human condition. If this means nuking the alien franchise, I'm willing to take the trade. 

BigDave

Jan-10-2019 2:45 PM

I would argue against that... it appears there was some vision  but i would agree however there has been a lot of chopping and changing, some of which we can point the finger at Ridley Scott and the Writers, but we have to CONSIDER that those in Charge at FOX have had a lot of say into what Stays/Goes  i think we only need to look at the Set-Up for Prometheus 2 and then RS comments about Alien Covenant in context to "they want Aliens i will give them $£"%£^ Aliens"

This combined with other comments about after AC and its disappointment, RS had said he felt he was ahead of the Curve/Game with Prometheus.   The Problem i have is NOT knowing what really RS has on his mind... he seems to be doing a lot of YES work for FOX... in that in the run up and promotion to Alien Covenant he appeared to be in favor of the Xenomorph and route they are going..  and not being so Negative Towards the Beast and so Toned Down the Beast is Cooked with, its a working Formula and you can go a few more rounds etc..

To then after the disappointment he comes out with comments that seem to indicate the Beast is Cooked... so what side of the FENCE was he on?  Was he only supportive to please FOX so that he can partake in the Franchise and Sequels?

IF Disney decide to make a sequel and have Ripleys Mother in it and she KILLS David and Sacrifices herself as the Space Jockey... would RS protest... or would we hear him say stuff like "i think the Ripely Connection really fits and her Mothers Sacrifice in Alien Awakening fits well with Ripleys Eventual Sacrifice in Alien 3"

Or would he be like "£!"$%$&.... that how Stupid a idea is that!!!"  it would then be a case of Disney either takes on board what RS says, or they go "well this is the route we are taking, if you dont like it we shall get Blomkamp in"

Regarding Fassbender  at this time he was a very Good Actor in Hollywood... his Character in Prometheus was interesting and one of the Stand Out Performances... Noomi Rappace came across at times, Wooden, and Naive her Character just Did-not stand out enough...

But there was more potential for Rappace, if they continued with a Story ARC! But with the Change of Direction where they must have deemed a Movie about Dr Shaw and David meeting these Would Be Gods.. would maybe not be ideal and certainly it appeared they could not SETTLE on a way to explore this Plot... that they then decided to U-Turn in a more basic Plot... a lot which was driven by how they felt Fan Reaction to Prometheus for having no Xenomorph Answers or Xenomorphs was something Fans was disappointed with, and they (FOX) may have had concerns that the expectations on Prometheus as  a Prequel that did-not deliver what they (Fans) expected, that sets up a sequel that would steer away from Xenomorphs and follow Dr Shaw and her Quest for Answers and Davids Story Arc.. would be something maybe a lot of Fans would not be interested in.

Rightfully some can be upset as they felt the Franchise needs something NEW, and this in part was what Prometheus was trying to do and RS Vision... But Fans seemed to expect Prometheus to be a Literal Alien Prequel, and not be interested in Prometheus setting up a NEW Tangent that steered away from LV-426 and the Derelict.

Prometheus is a VICTIM of trying something interesting but within the Confines of the ALIEN Universe... Imagine if the movie had NO Weyland Connections but had a different Company and Owner...  Imagine if the Engineers Ships/Suits had no connection to the Derelict/Space Jockey and imagine if the Monsters would have less to do with the Xenomorph Aesthetic...

They could have been left Free to explore something NEW/FRESH to a degree... but the CURSE of being connected to a ALIEN movie is always going to have Fans Expect it will have Xenomorphs and Queens!

I feel any Alien Covenant Sequel would have to Cave in and actually be more Alieny than even Alien Covenant, and less about the other Themes RS may have wanted to explore.

It will be interesting to see what Ridley Scotts TV Series Raised by Wolves is like and how well that does... because maybe if it does well then RS could be like TOLD YOU SO.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

Jan-10-2019 8:14 PM

BigDave Having a vague outline is not a vision, and remember how he said he does not do sequels? He cannot be bothered with continuity and coherence, his makes up things as he goes, shoving in what he thinks is cool that morning. 

It's Rapace not Rappace, and if you can't even be bothered to remember her name correctly it's no wonder that they could just kill her off, to bring some resembling to Ripley (hair-do included).

As for his series, I think will be the next The terror, pretty well received by critics, but not the next big thing...

BigDave

Jan-11-2019 8:23 AM

Ha Ha Forgive me for the additional P  ;)

But a good point raised none the less... Dr Shaw was a Plain Jane Character, many found her Annoying!  Yet its from her as a Proxy that the Great Unknowns and Questions could have been asked!

Noomi is capable of performing better than she did in Prometheus sometimes your limited to the Character Given and how it is written....    A continuation of her Naive Character would have been a bit bland!  But discovering Truths that Shatter her Religion and Faith could have led to a Character ARC that would have given her more to work with... she even hinted at such in Interviews.

FOX and maybe RS felt her Character was just not going to be that leading Heroine Protagonist that Ripley was... but then Ripley was not quite that Heroine until the Sequel to ALIEN..

So indeed they went for Daniels... a Character who in the Space of the Movie they Forced from the Evolution of Ripley from Alien to the end of Aliens...  and to be FRANK.. never came off as a believable Ripley Replacement either.

With Dr Shaws Flawed Character there was Scope!

With Daniels... it seems like it will be Forced to be a Ripley MK2

There was a lot of potential to see the Dynamic Between Dr Shaw and David... from the point she recovers his Head... to the Point she ended up on that Slab of Stone!

Its  a case of how many Fans would watch a Movie where there is only the TWO of them for like 40% of the Movie?

I would love to get a NOVEL of the Crossing... a Extended Story of that Journey of Dr Shaw,  there is a lot of Dialog and Philosophical Scenes that could have been played out and numerous fitting Mary Shelley Qoutes!

There is a lot from Frankenstein that fits Davids Arc, and the events that happened to Dr Shaw.   But i would say the Direction of Alien Covenant would not have been what i would have chosen either...

I would have liked to have seen her interact with these Would be Engineer Gods..   They could have been Malevolent or even Benevolent to her, which could lead David to Destroy them to Protect her/him or Destroy them because he is Jealous of how they respond to her, and how she shuns David or so it seems, now she has met her Creator.

So yeah... throwing Dr Shaw under the Bus and Engineers was a wasted Potential, just to please the Fanboys!

"They want Aliens i will give them %£"%$£^ Aliens"

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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