The Prequels had opened up a Facility on the Neighboring Moon to LV-426 introducing us to LV-223 a World not as Baron as LV-426, a Climate (prior to Terra-forming) that would be more ideal than LV-426
A Place connecting to the Space Jockey and the Xenomorph Origins.
Yet the Prequels had opened up a Avenue that gets us to ask.
*WHY pursue the Xenomorph on LV-426 when LV-223 has more Riches?
*WHY colonize LV-426 when LV-223 is more Habitable?
*WHY does it appear No-One Chased up what happened to the Prometheus?
*WHY does No-One take any action or notice of Dr Shaws SOS?
I am sure some would have liked a Visit to this place again, or explain WHY this place is of no Interest in the Alien Franchise?
With Alien Covenant the Door becomes open to Explore LV-223 in Future, because of these few things.
*David informs the Weyland-Yutani Company of who he is, and about his Experiments which all lead from what he had obtained from LV-223. Surely they would send a Mission at some point to investigate especially when LV-223 is closer than sending a Mission to Origae-6 and maybe Planet 4.
*Should the Engineers arrive at Planet 4 they would know someone had been to LV-223 and Obtained the Bio-Weapon they would be able to tell where the Crashed Juggernaught had came from... surely they would Investigate LV-223?
*If Davids Xenomorphs do end up being those Eggs on the Derelict then a Engineer Ship has to come into play and the Ship for some Reason has to be either Heading to LV-223 or leaving LV-223 by the time the Space Jockey/Derelict Event happens.
So DO-YOU feel we would go back to LV-223?
Would you LIKE to see them go back to LV-223?
Any ideas HOW you would like this to happen and what would happen on LV-223?
Is it LOGICAL to Assume maybe LV-223 becomes Destroyed at some point? Rendering the Companies only Avenue for the Xenomorph as being on LV-426!
I guess we could ask WHY they cant obtain it from Planet 4 and Origae-6 too?
I think LV-223 still is a place that Held a lot of Mystery, a place where some Answers to the Questions raised in ALIEN and Prometheus could be Answered.
I know its been covered in the Fire and Stone Comics, but its IF this would be considered Direct Canon, and also its IF the Comics Dealt with LV-223 and Questions remaining from Prometheus in the Right Fashion.
So feel Free to Discus, or even suggest ideas to HOW you would want to Re-visit this place.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
its all guess work at the point but several issues come to mind for some of these questions.
when looking at lv223 in particular, there was always an intrigue on the fans part to re-visit this place. we don't see what becomes of the deacon and as we can see there is def values at the facility that the company would more than likely want to attain for themselves esp the possibility of getting their hands on the engineers ships. but it all depends on what they know. in alien3, Bishop informs Ripley that the company knows everything that happened on the Sulaco as all data is automatically relayed back to base. is this the case in Prometheus? if not, then its safe to assume they don't know anything they did before. Weyland was onboard looking for immortality and if he assumed hed be successful, would his ego allow him to authorise David and the crew to keep the company up to date? if not then the only reason for the company to invest another trillion to go back there would be to find out what happened to the Prometheus. stepping away from the realm of the films themselves, we have to look at how RS wants things done. he may have no interest in returning to lv223 and just wants to expand his story which he may have pitched to Fox as an opportunity for future movies in the franchise as it leaves unanswered questions for other directors to address. I do however believe that at some point, the intended destination will be David's return to lv223 but he either doesn't make it or he does and the derelict is a vessel leaving the planet and when something goes wrong, it crashes on lv426 and that's where the trilogy will end (fucking hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it soooo much)
id love to see them return to lv223. id like to see a fully grown deacon and see it has integrated itself with whatever burst from the engineers but need to see something fresh and not just a rehash of aliens again.
the fact that the company only seems to show interest in lv426 in the originals may be because whever the hero is gna be in the final film in the prequels will most likely have destroyed the facility on lv223 OR the engineers destroy it to stop it falling into our hands and being used against them, AGAIN.
on the fire and stone topic, my thoughts r the same as with the out of the shadows trilogy novels. all these could become AU canon as, if RS goes down the path we assume hes going down where the derelict is concerned, then the events of River of Pain, where we get a scene of Newts parents in the derelict, will never have happened. things like this piss me off about where RS has/may be going after Prometheus. excellent additional work done by true artists and the fans love it, yet itl be trashed in instant because a retarded android with delusions of godhood was the one responsible for crashing the fu...... like I say, I have so many things id love to see, but that was the case after Prometheus n they stuck 2 fingers upto those dreams (thanks to all those who couldn't show patience) and I expect no less with the next film.
I understand why some would like that but I think that it is time to move on. Maybe they could have some minutes brief scenes dedicated to that but would not take too much time, that could be OK but I prefer not to.
Your comment about the Engineers going to that place is interesting. This could also be explained in some small scenes but it should not be too much time dedicated to it.
“If Davids Xenomorphs do end up being those Eggs on the Derelict...”
F no! I would really dislike that, hate is a word that is too strong but that would annoy me. He has too much of an importance already.
“I guess we could ask WHY they cant obtain it from Planet 4 and Origae-6 too?”
Any of these planets could possibly be the place. It depends on what the writers decide to do with it. This has got to be given a smart answer if they bother to answer it at all, it should not be at the lame level like David creating the Xeno.
Much of the answer to this is how they deal with it. Sure it could work but they got to make it interesting and having it make sense. I would rather have them returning to LV-223 than having it on some planet that has no connection to what happened before or that just makes more questions than answers.
Comics is one thing and a movie is another. Maybe a lot of people would rather have it in the movie since a movie seems more official, at least to me. If they decide to go back from it they could maybe look at the comic for some ideas although it would be a disappointment to copy most of it and just throw in some different things.
“… will be David's return to lv223 but he either doesn't make it or he does and the derelict is a vessel leaving the planet and when something goes wrong, it crashes on lv426 and that's where the trilogy will end (fucking hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it soooo much)...” - Ali81
Yup, that would suck since it gives David too much of a role. It would be boring and feel like a Phantom Menace in quality or The Last Jedi. What you say about something new is something that I agree with. Hopefully we will not see a rehash of Aliens, that would be lame because we already have Aliens so there is no need to copy it or make a movie that is a lot like that.
“… because a retarded android with delusions of godhood was the one responsible for crashing the fu.” - Ali81
Ha ha ha! Yeah F that Sh--. It would not surprise me if the next one becomes kind of bad too but they could do something about that. Look at what made the first three movie work, for example. Retarded delusional android, ha ha ha! That fits the direction of it perfectly.
I'll stand by the decision the crew of Manticore made with regards to LV-223 and LV-426.
As for David, he's Out There...somewhere...with a Colony ship and 2000+ captives to play with, including the embryos.
I very much doubt he'd return to LV-223, he wants to be left alone to 'create'.
*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*
Indeed a lot of your points are what make sense... LV-223 has more to offer than LV-426, Logically IF the company are aware then they would pursue BOTH avenues. IF they are not aware (which the Advent shows they would know Davids Experiments have a starting point with LV-223) then HOW can they miss this place by the Time Hadley's Hope is set up... LOGICALLY the Place has to be Destroyed either by Engineers or Humans in a attempt to prevent Humanity getting hands on the Xenomorph/Black Goo and what ever else.
"Bishop informs Ripley that the company knows everything that happened on the Sulaco as all data is automatically relayed back to base. is this the case in Prometheus"
Indeed and so they (or some faction) would know about the Advent Video David sent them.... when i was working on a Prometheus 2 i had it that Yutani who are shown to be active in Communications and Espionage have received Data from Prometheus Encoded as the Prometheus uses some Yutani Technology and so Yutani plan and send off a Mission to Explore LV-223 (take place in Prometheus 3) and i revealed that Weylands Brother and Nephew are not interested in Finding Peter Weyand because if he is deemed missing/dead and Vickers then they get to take over Weylands Share in the Company. So as far as NOT sending any Mission back, depends indeed on WHO benefits and what happens to the Company IF the TWO CEO's are Dead.
LV-223 was a bit of a Conflict/In-continuity after Prometheus but with the U-Turn Alien Covenant Plot of a Direct Prequel where without David turning up at Planet 4, then we would have NO Derelict, NO Eggs...
Then this now makes LV-223 play a Key Role, because as you said, if we are going to END with Davids Creation being on the Derelict, then his Creations have to END UP on a Engineer ship that either has to be heading to LV-223 or Departing LV-223. The Engineers are involved as they Return and we really have to ask what is their Agenda?
Surely they would want this place and all of Davids Creations Destroyed so Mankind cant get its hands on them? But then if they also want us Destroyed because we are Space Faring Race now... then why not Destroy Earth First?
To me i think a HUBRIS must happen, where these Engineers take a interest in Davids Creations, and either taking them to LV-223 to Mass Reproduce or make into Black Goo Soup... to use on Earth... or they already have done this and are in the Process of leaving for Earth, when they Succumb to Davids Creation. I think this Logically is what may happen.... but then its HOW does the Destruction of LV-223 happen and if its after the Space Jockey Event at the hands of a Engineer, then we have to ask WHY they have not came back to Destroy us.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"I very much doubt he'd return to LV-223, he wants to be left alone to 'create'.""
Indeed this really depends on what his Agenda is, and what he plans to do, and also HOW does his Creations end up in Thousands with just TWO Embryos... i think its likely he could have Snuck (or go back for) some Black Goo.... he certainly would not need to go to LV-223 for more Black Goo, as he would have some on Planet 4 still... But IF they are continuing with Davids Xenomorphs = Derelict Eggs then they have to end up on LV-426 and we have to ask WHY its a Coincidence that the route to Earth would take him past LV-426... So we have to assume if they are going the Davids Xenomorphs = Derelict Eggs route that a Engineer Ship with those Eggs ends up on LV-426.... the only reasons for this would be.
1) LV-426 is a place that has a Storage Facility already there.
2) LV-426 is where David obtains a Engineer Ship (but we have to remember Engineers are on there way to where David is so thats the avenue of the Ship).
3) The Engineer Ship has to stop off to LV-223 to Re-Fuel or what ever.
4) The Engineer Ship and Davids Creation are to be taken to LV-223 for further Evolution/Testing. (i think this is the most likely scenario).
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"Any of these planets could possibly be the place"
It has been speculated before that Planet 4 is LV-426 or Origae-6 is and i would be willing to BET this is not the case... i would say less than 5% chance, but who knows with the Writers they have.
All previous evidence, and even comments by Production (inc Ridley Scott) and drafts, all point to LV-223 being close to LV-426 and i see no Evidence in Alien Covenant to suggest that LV-223 is anywhere near Planet 4, certainly not in the same System. Planet 4 is a Large Earth like Planet with many Moons, LV-426 and LV-223 are Small Planetoids/Moons that Orbit a Large Gas Giant.
Origae-6 is also likely a Earth like Planet, but it could be a Earth like Smaller Planetoid/Moon... HOWEVER... it takes the Covenant another 7 years 4 Months to get to Origae-6 even if we assume the Covenant is Technologically only as Fast as the Prometheus we can assume Origae-6 is 3-4X Further away than LV-426 and LV-223 which are in the Zeta 2 Reticuli System and just under 40 Light Years away.
I think the Answers are pretty straight forwards.... Prometheus and Alien Covenant have shown us that LV-223 is a place that at some point some Engineers began to Appreciate and Admire a Organism like the Xenomorph and this place was a Testing/Experimenting Outpost.
The Plot is about Creation and Sub-Creation and the Pursuit of Perfection and David in many ways is a more Perfect Creation than Mankind and so in a way Weyland has Created a more Perfect being than the Engineer had in Mankind. some Engineers had attempted to Create Something similar to the Xenomorph.....
What do these beings do when they discover a being more Advanced than their own Creations (Mankind) and then discover these being has created a more Perfect Creation than the Experiments on LV-223?
The Story of Hubris is evident and you can bet your bottom $$$$ that some Engineers may take a GREAT interest in Davids Creation.
Fans are disappointed in the Engineers lesser Role in the Xenomorph creation, they are more disappointed in Davids Role in the Creation of the Xenomorph. Some fans were disappointed our Engineers got wiped out and also those Space Hippies as such just never looked as Awe Inspiring of Bad-Ass as our LV-223 Engineers.
Maybe more Fans would want to see BAD-ASS Prometheus Engineers again, rather than those more Frail and Technologically backwards beings on Planet 4.
FOX/Ridley Scott have paid attention to what Fans felt was MISSING with Prometheus... hence U-Turn to Covenant... so they could take things on board again...
So when looking at all of this it makes sense for...
Bad-Ass Engineers Return, come into contact with Davids Xenomorph, then take this Organism to LV-223 to Evolve it to the Bio-Mechanical Monster we see in ALIEN (have to ask how does it gain more Mechanical Look). These Engineers in their Hubris Fall Fowl to trying to Obtain and Experiment/Evolve Davids Creations and end up as the SPACE JOCKEY.
This is the route i would GO... and i think it could be the route that THEY would have taken us... IF they was to continue.
Without the Sacrificial Goo there would be NO LV-223 Experiments, without the Experiments on LV-223 there would be NO Davids Experiments/Xenomorph and without the Engineers Tinkering with Davids Creation there would be NO Eggs on the Derelict.
Thus David is revealed to be only the MIDDLE-MAN so to speak, why they could even go the route that while David needed Dr Shaw to create a more Perfect Organism, than could be created from Engineers, it could go that Step Further that the Engineers use David (in a Walter Body) to provide the Missing Link between Davids Xenomorph and the Derelict Eggs.
This has to be the Logical way to Save Face with the Franchise.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
As always, you make some excellent and very well-reasoned points, and I agree with the core of what you said in that what the situation is right now 'story-wise' is akin to a Hydra from mythology.
One thing's for sure, Fox/Disney is gonna be pretty careful with the franchise, we know that much, which is a comfort. I've also heard that Disney wants to explore more of that universe, so we'll have to wait and see where that takes us.
*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*
Well Ridley Scott feels the Franchise should be were Star Wars and Star Trek are right now, and well a Franchise about W-Y, Ripley and the Xenomorph is NO-WHERE near enough to put it on that level.
However...... the path that Prometheus opened up regarding the Space Jockey being connected to a Ancient Race of Humanoids who could have Create/Evolved and interacted with Life on Many Many Worlds, certainly opens up the Franchise to some degree that Star Wars/Trek has.... because for that you need Multiple Alien Races and explore a number of Conflicts.
So indeed there is potential, but it is IF some CORE Alien Fans are willing to except the Franchise or in part a Spin-off will have to cover more than just Xenomorphs.
Going back to LV-223 i think we barely scratched the surface with this place, and while this World may not provide the Answers to the Engineers History and Ways.. well not everything. It certainly could have enough to show us WHEN/WHY they started to experiment on Organisms related to the Xenomorph. And i always felt this place would have been ideal to Re-Visit to give us less ambiguous answers/clues to our Xenomorph without having to Directly show us the Space Jockey Event but now we have a U-Turn where the events are Chronologically going to connect to ALIEN, then i feel LV-223's role is going to be purely a Plot Device as there has to be some reason the Derelict is in the Vicinity of LV-426/LV-223 just moments prior to the Space Jockey Event.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I agree with your points, and it will be a challenge to guide the fanbase towards a Bigger Story, but it is achievable, with care and proper attention.
I LOVE what PROMETHEUS opened up, and as for LV-223, LV-426 and some possible insights...I have a story I'll be finishing up and publishing on Scribd that addresses the Engineers and lends some insights into their works...granted it's as I see things, but it's all pretty much a clean slate right now with very little to stumble over, franchise-wise.
I will say this:
Manticore's and Humanity's involvement with LV-223 isn't over, and while the answers I provide aren't Canon, I think people will find them at least Interesting and logical.
*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*
I wonder if Weyland or Yutani claim planets? Mineral/water/land/tech rights....etc...
Building worlds is their theme...can't have claim jumpers/squatters gumming up the works?
It's a W Y planet...KEEP OFF.
Drones to keep the riffraff from settling or thieving.
I believe that Weyland-Yutani Corp (post 2099) worked with Colonial Administration as the governing party over the planets humanity expanded to MonsterZero. That is from Aliens and the novels and there would certainly be a need to keep that space riffraff off your rock.
Ripley’s inquest related to the Nostromo destruction near LV-426 was comprised of eight individuals on the official board of inquiry. This board consisted of “the feds”, Interstellar Commerce Commission, Colonial Administration, and “insurance company guys”.
“The insurance investigator was possibly the unhappiest member of the board.”
Aliens novelization, page 27.
All that being said...I think we can all agree that Weyland Industries, Yutani Corporation, or the later combined entity would each have many secrets. And those secrets could certainly contain an unregistered planet to perform mischief on, away from the eyes of oversight (Colonial Admin., ICC). Sounds familiar.
This is a good topic BigDave...many storyline roads cross on LV-223.
In regards to communication, I still believe that the Weyland tech described in the novel, see below, was in place in 2094 and COMNET would have had every detail (Fifield and Milburn's romantic night together, David's access to the Engineer movie collection, and the last moments of the founder's life).
All communications are harvested, scrambled, and only a select few can decrypt it.
Chapter 22 Data Stream
“The signal came in clearly, reaching from the transmitters on the surface to the ship in geostationary orbit above the Sea of Sorrows. What came through looked, for all intents and purposes, like so much white noise. Sometimes that was inevitable, especially in areas where interference caused signal reflection and signal breakdown….
Andrea Rollins didn’t care in the least about white noise or interference. She did, however, pay a great deal of attention to the signal embedded inside of that synthetic static. Weyland-Yutani owned the patents on the devices that created that artificial signal, and on the hardware and software that could break it down into its component parts. It wasn’t a technology currently available on the market. Hers was the only computer on the ship capable of breaking down the coded information.”
Year 2497, Alien: Sea of Sorrows.
Return to LV-223
I can't imagine why David would go back to LV-223. I would like to see the company follow up to investigate on the ground on that planet and maybe the Engineers show up at that time with a great boom in the sky, then show their displeasure in the humans soiling their outpost.
The Prometheus: Fire and Stone comics tend toward this scenario, see below.
The comics and novels also tied together the planet LV-223 to the events that led to the collapse on LV-426 with finding the Onager from Hadley's Hope on LV-223.
"I can't imagine why David would go back to LV-223."
This certainly is the Big Thing we should always be looking at, Davids Goal/Agenda, which is above all else. When looking at WHY he destroyed those Engineers we need to consider and as i mentioned a number of times YEARS before Alien Covenant... we have to NOT think of David as a ROBOT but as his own Sentient Being, who does not wish to DIE .... a Walter would have been Happy (well maybe not as he has no Feelings/Emotions/Wants) but he would be fine with being Stranded on LV-223 as a Headless Corpse, but David would not as he would feel like he is ALIVE and as he is NOT MORTAL yet to a degree he has a Soul, he would certainly have a lot of Dreams/Ambitions and many many many years of more Experiences that he could take part in so he would NOT want to take any Risks. To a degree that is.. and this is just how i interpreted him.
So i mentioned this years ago, and that is that when going to Paradise/Planet 4 David would way up what he can gain and what he can lose, and he would have took a Risk Assessment i assumed years ago.. So when discussing a Prometheus 2 i always felt there was a Chance David would Choose to Eradicate the Engineers and then from their Ashes/Ruins he can Salvage Dr Shaw some Answers, as just turning up and hoping for a Welcoming Party could be FOOLISH.. Dr Shaw would take that risk to Talk to the Engineers even if their is a 5% Chance she get Answers and a 95% they could just KILL her. David with what knowledge he has and experience from dealing with a Engineer before WOULD-NOT take any Chances of getting Unplugged again. And from the Ruins with the Engineers NO-MORE he has Free-Reign on all their Secrets.
This may be a LONG-WINDED reply to the point ""I can't imagine why David would go back to LV-223." but i made it to show that David would WAY-UP every Risk i would imagine. We need to ask what is his AGENDA?
Does he need LV-223 for more Black Goo? I assume there is some left on Planet 4 and he could head back down to the Surface again before Departing to where ever he wishes to go.
Does he need LV-223 for a Engineer Ship? It could be that Planet 4 has more Ships,(depends on the Deleted Scenes and Novel) but these are In-Active (i cant see how he could not activate them apart from they are controlled by the Docking Ship). So if David needs a Engineer Ship then he has to use HUMAN Technology (Covenant Ship) to get to a World where there are some and LV-223 is pretty close to Earth, there is a risk he could be intercepted and stopped before he manages to obtain a Engineer Ship.
Does he need LV-223 to Create Thousands of Eggs? It seems all he needs its Hosts, and Black-Goo and what ever other Tools he had on Planet 4, and we dont know how these Xenomorphs Procreate yet. But i think he DOES-NOT need to got to LV-223 to Produce all those Eggs and again, getting there via the Covenant runs a risk of getting intercepted before he can accomplish his task.
So i cant think of a Reason WHY he would go there, when he could SET UP SHOP on Oriage-6 or even just go down to another part of Planet 4 so the Question of WHY he would go to Origae-6 is a Big One.
After the Advent Viral Video, you would assume the Weyland-Yutani Company would investigate LV-223 it would be like a BRAVO Team you go to LV-223, while ALPHA team goes to Origae-6. The Advent does show David sending messages as David and Spilling the Beans, while he in Alien Covenant sent messages pretending to be Walter.
So indeed some of those Messages could be Scrambled for Certain EYES only and i wonder if the AI Aspect will have something to do with the Company. RS claims the Next movie is very AI Focused.
But ALAS for Davids Xenomorphs to end up on the Derelict, they have to EVOLVE, they have to End up in their Thousands on a Engineer Ship, that has to END UP in the Facility of LV-223/426 for some REASON.
I can only thing this leaves the Engineers who come into play, Witness Davids Creation and they take it to LV-223 to EVOLVE the Question is do they take them from David... or does David Enter some-kind of a Covenant with these beings... Maybe they break this and SHAFT David and he is used to Evolve them to Bio-Mechanical beings... but the Engineers suffer a Hubris for this and Succumb to Davids Creation.
My Alien Covenant Sequel Ideas (Alien Ascension and Alien Absolution ) do tackle this route, where David finds a NEW Love Interest, a Female Synthetic Construct, who unlike Walter he manages to Tempt like Satan did to EVE and get this Female Synthetic to see that Mankind is the Past and THEY are the Future.
After the Engineers come into contact with Davids Creations and only a few Survive, they come to a COVENANT with David, seeing that Mankind was a Flawed Creation, and the Engineers Creators were too (Genetically Engineered LV-223 kind) and so David and those not too dissimilar Constructs (Engineer Replicants) come to a agreement.
To Work Together and Create a New Generation of Creation, but those beings BETRAY David and use his Queen to be the Bio-Mechanical Origins to the Xenomorph. This would be the 2nd Sequel and David takes Revenge on them, causing the Space Jockey event and Destroying LV-223 in a act of Redemption.
A Act that Destroys LV-233 but ONE ship escapes but the Blast Tears a Temporary Hole in Space/Time that sends the Ship through and back Thousands of Years, Dislodging some of the Cargo that gets to the Pilot. The REST is HISTORY
The themes touch on AI/Creation, the 3rd Act is more Action/Alien, and the 3rd movie covers the Engineers more and others... and it basically follows the Prometheus Themes, makes David the Middle Man in the Xenomorph Creation. Introduces us to HOW the Xenomorph becomes more Mechanical and Covers HOW the Derelict was there for Thousands of Years, without having to go the whole Time-Travel Route as far as the Freedom/Technology to do so... a Event of Destructive Power that opens up a Temporary Hole to the Past covers this... where this cant be replicated.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I wonder if David was involved in the decision to terraform LV426....
Corp "LV426?!...It's a worthless rock.."
David Weyland "I think it's suitable for a colony...with a little work.."
Corp "Okay..we'll run some scans an..."
David Weyland "No need for that...I visited the 'rock' myself and it's passes all the tests..."
"So i cant think of a Reason WHY he would go there, when he could SET UP SHOP on Oriage-6 or even just go down to another part of Planet 4 so the Question of WHYhe would go to Origae-6 is a Big One."
David must know what is on Origae-6...He has the Engineer's maps?
Maybe a better supply of black goo than LV-223?
It would be interesting to what Origae-6 is like, i can imagine its a Earth Like World, that has to be Not Quite as Ideal as a Primordial Earth or Planet 4.
I think it would be a bit to much of a Coincidence if this World is connected to the Engineers, certainly if it happens to be a Outpost.
I hope its just a Clean World.... i think a lot depends on HOW BIG Ridley Scott was going for how much these Engineers are capable of or their Creators.... If RS intends to show that WORLDS are Baron places apart from those that the Engineers Terra-form then it would be connected to them.
I just dont think having it as a Bio-Mechanical World, or even just Outposts like LV-223 would be ideal, maybe it would work and be EPIC but i think it would be a bit too much of a Set of Coincidences. That Each movie is Set/Links up to a World the Engineers used.
They had Surveyed this Place and so i would think this would show up any kind of Large/Moderate Scale Industry or Civilization.
If they did decide to have this World Connected... then i hope its just the LONG lost ruins of a Ancient Civilization and make it Ambiguous to Who.... Engineers? Their Creators? Other Creations? other Humanoids they had Destroyed?
So i would have Remains of a City that are in a very Poor State, Worn Away by Countless Thousands or over a Hundred Thousand Years of Weather/Desert Sand... Or Lost under the Vegetation of a Jungle.
Where only Accidental, up close inspection reveals that it was a Ancient Settlement were maybe inside some of the Temples, maybe Deep inside the Destruction and Environment has lefts some of it and Artifacts, Murals etc intact.
"David must know what is on Origae-6...He has the Engineer's maps?"
I think it depends if this World (Origae-6) has been Visited and is known to the Engineers, and they have it Catalogued. The Problem of how David could use the Maps is easy as he is bound to have a Photographic Memory that he can then Plot.
But the Covenant Ship already has this Place Locked into its Destination and there must be some information and surveillance of this World.
But then if they choose to have it as a Engineer World, it could be HIDDEN via some kind of Technology as the Alien Covenant Novel indicated Planet 4 did.
But when Ridley Scott said they are off to the Planet (Origae-6) but there would be 3-4 incoming Parties to Investigate and ONE of those are the Engineers. This tells me that there is NOTHING when David Arrives and any other Races that come in be it Engineers, Humans or Whatever... Arrive Latter.
This does not rule out it ONCE being a inhabited World though. If there are any Coincidences... they i think they could reveal that this Place was in the Stages of being Prepared for Seeding by the Engineers but its NOT Quite ready yet. And so if the Engineers Discover David was the Culprit to Destroying the Engineers Paradise, and he is with a Human Mission to Re-start a New on a New Paradise... you can bet the Engineers would not want Mankind or David TAINTING their New Paradise before its even Began.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think 426 is where the Engineers stored their WMD-grade xenophage and is possibly where David got the ingredients to make/grow the eggs and his Xenolith variant.
I would find it strange if Origae-6 would be LV-426, it is not impossible but not very likely. If they decide that it is the same planet then oh well there have been worse decisions made about the prequels.
Yeah I agree that LV-223 was like a testing lab for the Engineers, hence the pile of dead bodies and also what Janek said that they would not be dumb enough to make WMD’s at their own home place. Maybe they started to make experiments for monsters there that got loose and the Engineers went into that pile in the room. Sure I might be wrong about this but it is likely. Didn’t at least one of those Engineers had holes from explosions or something? That reminded me of the chest busted SJ.
Returning to LV-223 isn’t necessary if there is not something there that is Very needed for the story to go forward but hopefully not. I am not sure if there is except for maybe the goo but the monsters are probably dead because of the lack of nutrients. Maybe they can go back to get some goo but I do not see why it would be important apart from that.
“The Story of Hubris is evident and you can bet your bottom $$$$ that some Engineers may take a GREAT interest in Davids Creation.”
Yeah but that is why I hope that the Engineers take David’s creation and try to develop it further. Compare it to if there is an existing weapon and then you try to re-organize some parts of it to make it more deadly. What if the Engineers made it first, David finds it and makes his own version and then the Engineers find his version and make it better/more deadly? This is how I could have written it if that would be my story.
“Fans are disappointed in the Engineers lesser Role in the Xenomorph creation, they are more disappointed in Davids Role in the Creation of the Xenomorph. Some fans were disappointed our Engineers got wiped out and also those Space Hippies as such just never looked as Awe Inspiring of Bad-Ass as our LV-223 Engineers.”
That is me on all of those which is why I hope that they will get a bigger role in the next movie, that David gets a smaller role, and that the Engineers get a bigger role in the creation of the Xeno even if that just means evolving the David monster. The Engineers got the last piece of the Alien creation puzzle so to speak and not David, I would like that. Yeah I also think that the Engineers (official movie and the removed sacrificial scene) looked better than those in AC. Maybe there is a smart way to explain this but I doubt that they will do so. Hopefully we will see some of them in the next movie (LV-223 Engineer types), that would be nice. How it gets the mechanical look: maybe they add something to its DNA? I am not sure how but this is sci-fi after all so maybe the Engineers are more advanced in their culture than humans so they can do those sort of things. Perhaps we will see a science lab and then we see the Engineers get in there and create Xenos but we do not see how it is done so we have to fill in the blanks so to speak.
Hopefully Fox and Scott will listen to the fans so we get a bigger role for the Engineers and less for David. It would not be smart of them to not listen at all. There are things about the prequels that I would change if I would have something to say about it.
“These Engineers in their Hubris Fall Fowl to trying to Obtain and Experiment/Evolve Davids Creations and end up as the SPACE JOCKEY.”
Yes! Great! I totally agree with this, which makes a lot of sense if we look at the Space Jockey. Hopefully they will be smart enough to make sense of this.
Yes, I think I would like to go back to LV-223 in the last connecting movie to Alien. As you say, there are many mysteries left there. What’s in the other four facilities, for example? Also, I don’t think there’s any reason for David to go to Origae-6 since he has almost run out of mutagen (He knows there’s lots of it on LV-223). He has also, in Advent, told what he’s done to WY and they think he’s heading for Origae-6.
Furthermore, the project Prometheus was a secret mission. The destination was unknown to people outside the project and nobody except a select few knew that Sir Peter Weyland was on board. He mysteriously vanished. It wasn’t an SOS that Shaw sent, it was a warning not to come to LV-223. Perhaps they can trace her message and find it?
It would then be possible that the final battle between WY, marines, people, xenos etc would be on LV-223, it gets nuked, the planet’s atmosphere and life destroyed, everybody dies, and it turns into LV-426 . . .
"I think 426 is where the Engineers stored their WMD-grade xenophage and is possibly where David got the ingredients to make/grow the eggs and his Xenolith variant."
I think its open for debate and cant be ruled out for sure, i think clues are this is NOT the case, it depends how we take the Novel (and maybe Draft which i have not read) and how its implied David Found the Egg as it was... in support of this we do see the Xenomorph has a different Chest Buster Stage, is more Organic and a Faster Gestation and Growth, which we could logical assume points to a Evolution of the Xenomorph, as the Chest Buster and Slower Gestation/Growth we see in the Alien Franchise are maybe Traits that are a Devolution.
For this Theory to be True would depend on LV-426 and the Derelict or at least IF the Egg Silo was NOT part of the ship, but RS seems to be on the side that the Egg Silo is on the Ship. Despite the Size being off, and Aesthetic/Design of Cargo Hold compared to the Juggernauts (Size and Position on the Ship)
Then it depends IF we can take some of the Viral Marketing and Extras/Easter Eggs from Prometheus. The Weyland Site (taken down/replaced during Alien Covenant release) implied the Company knew about LV-426, and also the Signal... and even suggested David was made aware of this and to monitor it.
If we accept the Derelict was Ancient at the Time of Prometheus (which it was) then surely HOW can David miss the Signal, yet the Company is aware of it certainly at some point (to Re-direct the Nostromo) and so INDEED this leaves the Potential for David to go and Check LV-426 out before he heads off to Planet 4
This all hinges on the Direction they are going though. IF the idea is NO David then NO Eggs on the Derelict, then it means the chances of the Derelict or Outpost on LV-426 are unlikely.
HOWEVER..... seems FOX listen to some Criticism of Prometheus and so as it stands now i think most fans have more of a Problem with DAVID creating the Xenomorph and NO Derelict on LV-426 until after the year 2105 than any PROBLEMS they had with Prometheus.
So the Ancient Derelict/Cargo and even Storage Facility on LV-426 could be something that gets Re-Introduced. Its maybe NOT what RS wants... but then i doubt a SHARE of Alien Covenant was what he WANTED.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"I would find it strange if Origae-6 would be LV-426,"
Totally and what a Lazy Cop Out that would be... I think its unlikely not just for Coincidence reasons. But more so that we have to ask what is the Technological Differences between The Prometheus and The Nostromo and The Covenant
The Viral Marketing for Prometheus informed us this ship Class was a Evolution that opened up Deep Space Exploration and was Commissioned around 2070's and it took about 2 years to LV-223 which is just under 40 Light Years away and thus had a Speed of about 20 Light Years/Year.
The Nostromo was a Newer Ship, and it was Refitted with improved Engines latter in Life, and it reached LV-426 again which was just under 40 Lights Years away in 10 Months and so had a Speed of about 47 Light Years/Year.
We have NO idea how far Origae-6 or Planet 4 are, we know the Covenant is Newer than Prometheus and was a Expensive/Advanced Craft for the early 2100's WHAT we do know is that Planet 4 to Origae-6 is another 7 years 4 Months Travel, Looking that the Ship had to Re-Charge and its Cycle Rate would mean a Earth to Origae-6 would have taken at least 8 years. So with a 8-8.5 Year Journey Time we have to look at how many Light Years the Prometheus and Nostromo would cover.
The Prometheus would cover 160-170 Light Years in 8-8.5 years.
The Nostromo would cover 375-400 Light Years in 8-8.5 years
We know nothing about the Distance to Origae-6 or Speed of the Covenant but is it SLOWER than the Prometheus? I doubt it, is it FASTER than the Nostromo? Who knows.
What i can SAY is that If Planet 4 is LV-426 then the Covenant covers ONLY about 5 Light Years per Year. Thats 4X Slower than the Prometheus... surely it would make Sense to send Multiple Prometheus Engineer Class Ships on Multiple Journeys than ONE Covenant Ship at those Speeds.
So while we dont know HOW FAR Origae-6 is is think its NO-WHERE as close as LV-426
"Didn’t at least one of those Engineers had holes from explosions or something?"
There was a number of Holes in the Engineers Suits.... some we get a close look and the suits appear to be EMPTY... this is maybe so that the Props are Lighter... but then Dr Shaw mentions she has seen something like this before (Outbreak/Ebola) we see the Head Explode when activated and yet it remained Preserved in that ROOM. Looking at the Sacrificial Engineer Scene, and Holloway's Change, i was drawn to some of the Engineers would start to break down like the Sacrificial Engineer just at a Slower Rate... I am drawn to the Room they was Running into has some kind of Environment that SLOWS DOWN or even Halts the Infection/Effects of the Black Goo... I feel the Space Jockey Suits not only Protect the Engineers from Contamination, but also Prevent them from Infecting the Environment in the Complex.. which maybe the Humans Affected when they removed their Helmets.
WE do see the Chest Busted Cryo-Pod Engineers, which is more open to debate, this could be a unique reaction to the Black Goo, could be they are Female (they was not but we can only make that out from the Props) or some Organism from the Black Goo had infected them (Hammerpedes maybe?).
"Returning to LV-223 isn’t necessary if there is not something there that is Very needed"
This Place is a bit of a Mystery as far as surely AFTER the Advent, the company would check it out... but also this place has many Clues, Prometheus did not show them EXPLORE every Nook and Cranny, we never got to find out what any of the Engineer Writing was but David would have known. And there were MORE Complex's i feel LV-223 could answer WHY they wanted to destroy us/Create the Bio-Weapon, it surely could have clues to WHY they left Clues to this place (Star Map) and clues to the Xenomorph Origin/Related Organisms, where as Planet 4 maybe would NOT!.... Until after what David had done there.
I also think IF we are going that NO David NO Xenomorph route, then a Engineer Ship with his Creations would surely not end up near LV-223 by pure Coincidence there would be REASON why it is heading there. IF so then how much we see/visit LV-223 would depend on IF they are sticking to their Plan (David Creator) and then it would be IF the Eggs are as they was during the Derelict heading to LV-223 but only getting as far as LV-426... or IF the Derelict goes to LV-223 First and Departs with the Eggs but only gets as far as LV-426
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"What if the Engineers made it first, David finds it and makes his own version and then the Engineers find his version and make it better/more deadly?"
Indeed and the other replies, are just as i would GO.... it kind of fixes the disappointment that David did it.. And Fits with the whole Engineers CREATORS and the obsession with the Black Goo and MURAL in Prometheus.
IF the Engineers Created Mankind..... how would they look at seeing that their Creation has created a Humanoid that is NOT Organic... in part for a Race of Genetic Space Gardeners and Evolution, they would maybe be SURPRISED and Interested in a Synthetic.
I THINK the Engineers on LV-223 Encountered something that infected them or came onto contact with the Creation Goo, that they DID-NOT create and they saw the Result of this Parasitic Organism, and started to be impressed with his Genetics, and maybe they Harnessed its Traits? We certainly have some Basis for the Experiments and the Deacon/Their work they was doing was seen as Impressive and Important.
"sometimes to create, one must first DESTROY" does seem to show they KNOW Organisms related to the Deacon could result from the Black Goo.... they may have seen Engineers or even used/Sacrificed Engineers to see what the Black Goo can do.. They was impressed by their WORKS.
But David had taken the Black Goo and Experimented and Created many Hybrids until he got to his XENOMORPH, which its indicated that he FOUND that Dr Shaw provided better Results than a ENGINEER Host.
So IF the Engineers had Engineered us, had experimented with the Black Goo maybe to Create what they did, or they saw something infected that lead to a related Organism that they then thought "that is very interesting" and so began Experiments.... THEN they see the Results on a Engineer, had they seen the results with a HUMAN? or was they going to FIND OUT?
We can Ponder what some Engineers who Discover Davids Attempt/Experiments with the Black Goo and see his XENOMORPH as impressive, BUT also see DAVID as Impressive. Its maybe interesting to WONDER if these Engineers then see DAVID as a different Superior Creation to Mankind, and his XENOMORPH i Superior to their own Experiments.
And so we can ASSUME they may Wonder... what if we combined DAVID with his XENOMORPHS what kind of PERFECTION would that make?
This ^^^^ is the route i would take/was taking with my Sequel Ideas. and i think its FITS with the Philosophy of the Engineers/Prometheus and is the PERFECT Solution.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"It would then be possible that the final battle between WY, marines, people, xenos etc would be on LV-223, it gets nuked, the planet’s atmosphere and life destroyed, everybody dies, and it turns into LV-426"
Ignoring the Marketing Sites, and Comments by RS... then ON-SCREEN there is NOTHING that concretely shows those other Moons are LV-426 and so its not impossible to have LV-223 become LV-426.
As far as David... he had time to get those Face Huggers but he could have Swallowed them before his Final Encounter with WALTER and we cant rule out him having time to get some Black Goo.... Especially if David obtained the Embryos after his FIGHT with Walter.
But a more logical way would be ONCE everyone is tucked in on the Covenant, David could take that Lander back to Planet 4 and obtain himself more Embryos, more Black Goo... and i thing to remember would be the Information he has on his Experiments... has he Visually Recorded them all and uploads this to the Computer to be used as Information? Or could he go back for some of his research/notes?
I think heading to LV-223 would be a Risk for David, as the Company would detect the Covenant maybe heading close to home and Wonder, what the Hell its doing heading to the Zeta 2 System. And thats IF David kept it secret.. but as he sent the Information i feel for him to head to LV-223 they could intercept him easier and maybe have more control over what he gets up to.
I think it would make more sense to go to Origae-6 and maybe by the time they get his Advent Message and send a ship to go there, then David could have 1-2 years on Origae-6 were who knows what he would get up to...
I think its EXTREMELY likely David goes to Origae-6 and will be there for a number of years before anyone else Turns Up. Ridley Scotts comments indicate as such.
I then think its LIKELY that Davids Experiments END UP on a Engineer Ship that is either heading to LV-223 with the Eggs or is leaving LV-223 after Mass Producing those Eggs.
But then its a case of Does David Pilot this ship or is he on board, IF SO then this means he overcomes the Engineers (or obtains a Ship from Origae-6 which is a too big Coincidence/Lazy Plot) so he would have to get the Ship from incoming Engineers.
*So he maybe DEFEATS them and takes a Ship to LV-223, maybe other Engineers are then on a Intercept Course as i think they would have to play a Role in the Sequel to Alien Awakening.
*I cant see the Engineers taking a Ship to LV-223 after DEFEATING David because i feel he would also play a Large Role in a Sequel to Alien Awakening.
So the only Conclusion i am drawn to is the Engineers CAPTURE David and take him to LV-223, or they come to a Covenant with David and they both head off to LV-223. Which is also the route i planned for my Alien Ascension and Alien Absolution Sequels to Alien Covenant
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
If we get another connecting movie to Alien, do you think it will show a more visual, open ending and the audience will have to make the puzzle of connecting it to Alien, or will there be a direct, literal connection showing how the derelict ends up on LV-426, who is the Space Jockey, what happened to him, why is there a hole in the pilot room down into the cargo hold/cave/silo, who made and planted the eggs there etc?
Another problem is that LV-223 and everything on it has to be gone or all information about it. Yet, WY knows about the xenomorph through David’s message and Muthur and Ash knows about the xenomorphs (Special Order 937) but do they know they are on LV-426 (or just somewhere in a quite large area of space)? How much does WY know? Who within WY knows?
There’s very little left of the mutagen on Planet 4 and I don’t think he would want to go back to where he’s lived isolated for ten years like “Crusoe on his island” not when LV-223 probably is close by (and he doesn’t know about the deacon). On the other hand, he doesn’t need the mutagen anymore because he’s already created the perfect being. All he needs is hosts, which he has (around 2000). He only needs a good hatching ground . . .
When are you planning to announce your sequels, by the way? Looking forward to them!
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