I would like to share my opninion regarding the current situation of the Alien franchise (Prometheus, Alien/Alien: Covenant, and Alien: Awakening).
How could a film corporation like 20th Century Fox interrupt a saga like Alien (by R. Scott). Firstly, It would be unprofessional and secondly, disrespectfull for those who supported it.
We are talking about a sequel that would bring all the long awaited contents like Engeneers, the origins of the patogen, the truth about the human creation, more David's "creations" and a lot more.
I really don't know. I know that Alien: Covenant didn't bring us all the things we wanted, but it was an amazing film, a sort of merge between the old Alien and Prometheus.
I really don't know how fans preferred films like Alien 2,3,4 instead of Prometheus and Alien: Covenant... come on guys Alien 2, 3, 4 were just Run N' Gun films with no sense... just bullets and bullets all the time. My heart painly imploded when yesterday I saw that the top 2 Alien movies were Alien vs Predator 1 and 2. Ahahahhahah, really?
Would you like to see Alien: Awakening? Well, me too... really. This is the first ALIEN forum on internet, so this means that it is surely seen by someone who work on the Alien franchise. Let's make them hear that we want that film!
Hello Chris Campbell.
"We are talking about a sequel that would bring all the long awaited contents like Engeneers, the origins of the pathogen, the truth about the human creation, more David's "creations" and a lot more.
I really don't know. I know that Alien: Covenant didn't bring us all the things we wanted, but it was an amazing film, a sort of merge between the old Alien and Prometheus....
Would you like to see Alien: Awakening?"
Well written summation and to answer your question above, yes.
Many who saw Alien: Covenant concentrated on weird flute speeches and otherwise used to misdirect a fellow synthetic seemed to miss that David attempted to do what the Engineers did to him.
If Planet 4 was the head of the Engineer civilization, then David decapitated the Engineer civilization by wiping Planet 4 clean and having his way with the spoils. After that, Mother came and picked him up and played music for him while he revealed himself as a Mermaid Purse for face hugger embryos which are most likely to produce a queen.
I thought Alien: Covenant was great. It was a real party on Planet 4 and it might not be over.
I think it would be a Shame to leave it as it is, as i feel Alien Covenant is the ONE movie in the Whole Franchise that Sets up a Sequel... Prometheus and Alien Resurrection are open ended so that it leaves it for a Sequel but does not directly set up the 100% Need to.
Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 all Ended in ways that the Franchise could have ENDED at the End of Each of those movies.
The ALIEN Franchise had ran its course, there was not a lot really to expand upon, in context to some Company keep finding/trying to obtain a Xenomorph and Ripley comes to the Rescue.
ONE Mystery remained... the Egg Cargo in ALIEN... where did they come from? what was the Space Jockey doing with them? And indeed if you like "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SPACE JOCKEY" but the last one WE know really, we know the Pilot got infected with his Cargo, we NEVER knew When, We never knew HOW (as in how a Face Hugger got loose) we can gather Where! (not so far from LV-426).
But its a question of does that really NEED any answers?
The Bigger Questions which we had NO idea well Answers for are.
*Where did the Space Jockey get the Cargo?
*Where did those Eggs/Xenomorph come from?
*What Purpose did the Space Jockey have with them?
We could expand them with WHERE was he going, WHERE did he come from? And all of these could allow us to be introduced to HIS RACE and what Role/Agenda they had....
The Prequels were the reason for THIS.. Those Questions and Alien Engineers while giving a bit more clues and having Xenomorph Encounters was a MOVIE IDEA that FOX Felt, Actually the Background Story to the Space Jockey/Engineers and WHY they would create such a Bio-Weapon was more interesting than covering Xenomorphs, and so then we had the less Xenomorph Prometheus.
It Expanded the Universe, added more Depth to Origins/Agenda of the Weyland Company, and Synthetics and Humanity Quest to explore Space and introduced the Creators/Gods Ancient Astronaut Engineers Plot that was interesting. And left a lot of Questions.
A sequel could have explored the Engineers the reasons and purpose for what they DO... and answer Questions left behind from Prometheus and could have Shed Light on the Xenomorph without having to introduce them!
But a U-Turn with Alien Covenant had seemed to brush the Engineers aside... but INDEED it seems Ridley Scott had some Ambition to expand and explore on them in FUTURE movies.
Right Now the Franchise is in LIMBO... and Alien Covenant does need a Sequel... Especially at least ONE that closes that Door to Alien...
I think the THING to remember however is FOX held the rights, and while it Started as Ridley Scotts project with ALIEN, there was other players who made the whole thing happen... O'Bannon, Hill, Giler and Giger.
RS had lost control of the Franchise after ALIEN as he was busy, but there must have been so many ways/things he would have liked to have done with the Franchise, that the Prequels allowed him some Control!
I think it would be GREAT to follow his Vision, and hope that he still has a BIG influence but i guess its a case of TIME will Tell...
After the Performance and Criticism aimed at Alien Covenant, it seemed FOX had to think LONG and HARD at WHY did this movie not do as well as expected? I think they assumed it would Match or Beat Prometheus.
So its always going to be a case of looking at if Financially a Sequel or set of Sequels are Financially Viable, just as the rumors with STAR WARS after the Disappointment with HAN SOLO, its reported Disney are considering Scraping any ideas to do SPIN off Anthology Movies, because of the RISK they Financially and Critically become a Disappointment.
FINGERS Crossed the take over gets sorted ASP, and hopefully we will get some News on the Future of the Franchise... I feel if anything Positive will be happening with any Future Plans we should know by APRIL 26TH 2019.... Alien Day and 40th Anniversary... If there is no further News then as it is NOW then i would start to have concerns about WHEN/IF we will get to see any ALIEN movies especially ones linked to the Prequels and Engineers.
We can only HOPE and WAIT i suppose ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
@BigDave you forgot to credit Ronald Shusset before Giller and Hill, at least he loves everything Sci-fi, as opposed to Logan who considers it a lesser genre.
And I still don't understand why there would be a tragedy if there is no more sequel. It is clear as a day where it would end so why bother?
Nobody is gonna interrupt it, they said they confirmed to work with Ridley Scott again. Btw my new soundtrack for is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWPenJNSPso :D
Yeah i forgot Ronald Shusset my bad ;)
And indeed we kind of DO know where its going to end. But there are still details in between... The Basics seem to set up.
*David goes to Origae-6 and either Sets up the Colony, unbeknown to them about his Xenomorphs and they then get unleashed on them. OR he intends to set up a Fake Colony that is used as a Storage Facility for his Xenomorph Eggs.
*The Company will send in a Ship to arrive at Origae-6 maybe even TWO ships arrive, but ONE at least will have insight/preparation for what David has been up to and this leads to a conflict between David and them and Xenomorphs will no doubt at some point come into play.
*The Engineers Return, and then are on a intercept course with David, and its a question of what can David do when they arrive, Can he Reach a Covenant with them? Does Davids Xenomorphs provide David the Protection from Incarceration from the Engineers and you can NO Doubt Guarantee some Engineers vs Marines Action too.
*Davids Eggs END UP on a Engineer Ship that has to be heading towards or leaving LV-223 at the Time of the Space Jockey Event.
This seems to be the NUTS and BOLTS but again its if any such Plot would Please Fans, i know many are wishing a lot of Alien Covenant was Undone... So by NOT having a continuation, it leaves some of them Fans maybe happy they wont see the Conclusion of Davids Agenda/Saga.... But then enough Clues are around to still BUG them about the Xenomorph Origins but they could just Pretend to themselves Alien Covenant never happened.
OR a Conclusion could be made to PUT RIGHT some of the Changes that have NOT gone down too well. The Prequels opened up many Questions and its not just a case of only being about the Space Jockey and events that lead to HOW that Cargo got on his Ship and what he was intending to do with them and WHEN/WHERE
But its case of being Hard to do any Justice with what has been laid down already, you just cant please everyone.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
You should look in 10 alien eggs as penitence for your mistake, but don't worry it is perfectly safe, a certain android assures you.
It was never about pleasing everyone, but just as many to keep the things well above the floating line.
"It was never about pleasing everyone"
I never meant that comment aimed at any one in particular, just that with every Movie things Change that Displease Fans, it happened prior to the Prequels Too..
A number of ALIEN fans were never pleased with the Camerons Bug Hunt route with the Xenomorph and Queen. Alien 3 displeased some for Killing Off Hicks, Newt and then Ripley.... and Alien Resurrection some were not pleased with the New Born.
And so there would always be some element of ANY route they take and changes they made that would not Sit-Well and please everyone. So its very HARD for them to try and Gauge what kind of Direction would please MOST.
Alien Covenant had a U-Turn of Sorts... but it also tried to please every kind of Fan by offering a little bit for everyone but Ultimately not doing enough to please everyone.
*The Slow Build up First Act:... trying to add a slow introduction to the Characters, before the $£^% hits the Fan .... just how ALIEN was but Sadly not executed as Good as ALIEN.
*A bit of Humans VS Xenomorph Action: that Prometheus had NONE... Sadly the First Xenomorph and Neomorph Attacks did not quite add up to the confrontation and action that we had in Aliens, Alien Resurrection and to a degree Alien 3
*A bit of the Haunted Mansion: being stalked by a Lone Xenomorph on a Confined Space Ship, again this Scene was too short and lacked the build up that made the Xenomorph in Alien Scenes so Epic.
*Little Nods to the Engineers Culture: But not enough and no reveal, it was reported that they had intended to HAVE less Engineer Connections and Scenes than we actually got... and so it was like lets put a bit about the Engineers in.. but Sadly not enough... and not as much as many Fans of Prometheus would have wanted.
*Show what happened to Dr Shaw: which was Vital to the Plot of Davids Creation, but bypassing the need for what the Relationship was like and what went Wrong... The Crossing was made to Provide a bit more Backbone to the Relationship but again NOT enough to please those who wanted to see more.
*More about the Main Character David: more background about him and fleshing him out, as he was the Stand Out Character from the First Movie so they felt a Emphasis on him should be in place.. Sadly some of it was a bit too much and a bit flawed.
The Black Goo: by showing us a bit more about this substance and the Mutations/Effects and Creations that can come from this.. included Davids Workshop... Sadly not much time spent on any of this in the Movie... only expanded on more in the ADVENT Viral.
Something Fresh: The introduction of the Neomorph and its Life Cycle but again, it just never got enough Screen Time.
So it tried to give a little to the Alien/Alien 3 Fans, the Aliens Fans and Prometheus ones... while also giving us something FRESH to try and please many.... but just not giving enough to please them.
Time Restraints were a Problem.... there was So much they tried to cover but with the Run-Time things had to be done in short supply, to do all of the above more Justice and Depth would have required a extra 45-60 Minutes.
THIS is a Problem they now face with any SEQUEL... its a case of what do they have to cover, what can they cover and what would need to be done to please the varied Fanbase..
Is there enough Run-Time in ONE movie to cover all this? without having to contribute just little time to each Element due to Time Restraints? Or would spreading what needs to be done OVER TWO movies deliver enough in the First One to please Fans, and have them wait for the Final Chapter?
Its a Shame RS just could not have stuck to his Vision but the Production Company has to think about WHAT would Please Fans and Make Money.... and they FELT the Xenomorph and its Origins needed to be explored and re-introduced. Which lead to the Plot Change to give us a Direct Shoe-horned set of Prequels. Starting with Alien Covenant.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
“Would you like to see Alien: Awakening?” - Chris C
It depends on, if we get well-made human characters, no fluting robots that talk about creation, and no story about a mad android then I am for it. On the other hand if they think that another Alien movie should be like Alien Covenant then forget it. To me AC is one of the worst alien movies this far but at least it is better than AVP and maybe AR too. No more movie about David at the expense of human characters.
David is not that interesting but they can make him better than he was in Alien Covenant. There he was just an evil robot like some sort of mad scientist that hated mankind for what reason exactly? The lack of well-made characters, and the focus at a mad android ruined it for me. Honestly the movie only got worse the more I thought about it. Of course I do not wish that would be the case but that is what happened.
Alien 3 is my favorite, 2 is OK, and 4 (AR) is where they really started to go downhill. Alien is a classic but I prefer Alien 3. AVP 1 and 2? LMAO! At least AVP is OK as entertainment even though it is not very smart, AVPR is an abomination but at least I gave it a chance. You can read my review of AVPR is you want to, I made a post about that.
What happened to the egg cargo and who the SJ is is interesting but there is a risk that they mess it up. They have not done very well with the prequels this far and yes I prefer Prometheus before AC. Hopefully they will not tell us the whole SJ thing so there is room for speculation, I would prefer it to be like that. Unfortunately the prequels have not been that good so no answer is better than a bad one.
By the way, I do not want Ridley’s vision if he wants it all to be centered around David.
“I think it would be GREAT to follow his Vision, and hope that he still has a BIG influence but i guess its a case of TIME will Tell...” - BD
I totally disagree because if they will do that I bet that we get another dumb robot movie. Let him handle the visuals but keep him far away from the story. He did enough damage with Alien Covenant which is one of the worst alien movies this far because it almost has no well-made character.
I would like for the Engineers to end David so we get rid of him. He could have a small role and I do not think that Fassbender is a bad actor it is just that we have seen a lot of him in prequel 1 and 2 and the second movie was all about him at the cost of everything else so I am tired of that. This could be a way to balance it and try to avoid making all movies about him, it is only fair. David was interesting in Prometheus but the way he was in Covenant made me not care about him that much even though he and Walter were sort of interesting in the differences between them. Eventually he could be more in the background in the next movie if there is one so there might be a way to fix that but another AC would be trash. No thanks to another David movie, seriously, F that sh--. Sorry about the swearing but Alien Covenant made me disappointed even though it has some interesting parts.
“It was never about pleasing everyone, but just as many to keep the things well above the floating line.” - IG
Yeah well not everyone will like the same thing but at least you do not need to make a movie that many think is a failure which puts the franchise in such a bad situation so we do not know if we will get another movie or not. They should at least have tried to put a minimum into getting a story right and characters that work but no they did not get that right so to run the same course that made AC fail would not be smart at all. If they will stick to the David thing then the next movie will probably sink, it would not surprise me at all. I do not want a movie like that
“.... and Alien Resurrection some were not pleased with the New Born.” - Big Dave
The new born was hardly the only problem with that movie. It seems by this comment that the only bad thing was this, but I understand what you mean. Yeah the Newborn does not look very good I agree and it is not that it is bad to try to make new monsters but the design looked like a walking piece of melted cheese (is it just me who thinks about that when I see it?). It is just that the comment seemed fun to me. No offense and by the way the main problem with AR is the same as with P and AC to me at least.
"he was just an evil robot like some sort of mad scientist that hated mankind for what reason exactly?"
Thats hit the NAIL on the head, if they continue with David he has to be given a lessor role and we NEED to explore WHY he became how he has.
"Hopefully they will not tell us the whole SJ thing "
I think this was the Plan, they may have given more Clues to HOW/WHEN this event happened, but i doubt they was going to explore it on-screen.... But ALAS they changed their minds to give us a more direct connection which meant bringing the EVENT to a more recent one... Originally RS had explained it, just it was never shown in the Movies..
SJ was a Engineer, he had departed LV-223 where his Cargo had Evolved and infected the Engineer, who then laid down a Course to Nearby LV-426 to Quarantine his Cargo... and this EVENT happened either 100-200 years Prior or After the LV-223 Outbreak that killed off nearly all those Engineers on LV-223
"He did enough damage with Alien Covenant which is one of the worst alien movies this far because it almost has no well-made character. "
I agree some errors were made in how they Evolved/Expanded Davids Character, Sadly many still see him as a Crazy Robot... rather than proposing to us what is Humanity? What is a Soul and thus are we also just ROBOTS? only we are Organic and Inferior? But it is something that was not to everyone's Cup of Tea and maybe something to be Bypassed?
"I would like for the Engineers to end David so we get rid of him"
I think following the Themes of Prometheus, it would be fitting IF David became Destroyed by his OWN Creation as a Act of HUBRIS but the Engineers could have something to do with it.... but i feel if this is the case and THEY do stick with David as the Creator... then the Engineers need to be shown to taking Davids Creation and Evolving it and then FALLING PREY to the same HUBRIS and thus leading to the Space Jockey Event.
"The new born was hardly the only problem with that movie"
Indeed it had a number of other Problems too, i just used this as a example that some Fans found it was well Disappointing and NOT very ALIEN or Scary.... some Fans felt the same regarding the Deacon too. And to a Degree YES the Deacon and New Born were just not as Scary or Horrific as the Xenomorph and Neomorph.
But regarding CHARACTERS... Again you are 100% Correct the better they are the better the movie will be. I think only Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 had a good Depth of Characters.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Maybe, I would rather have them finishing David so he dies early in the movie. I understand that some people still find him fascinating but to me the damage that AC did to him make me think that he is done. To me he is done, get something better.
“SJ was a Engineer, he had departed LV-223 where his Cargo had Evolved and infected the Engineer, who then laid down a Course to Nearby LV-426 to Quarantine his Cargo... and this EVENT happened either 100-200 years Prior or After the LV-223 Outbreak that killed off nearly all those Engineers on LV-223“
This is something that I am totally fine with. One problem is that the Engineers looked less in AC since they seemed to live in a small village or what ever it was. It was not made very interesting but I think that the next movie if there is one could fix that. AC should have made them look meaner and more dangerous rather than just being destroyed some seconds or what ever into the movie. Nope they had prioritized things wrong in Alien Covenant. Hopefully they will make more of them in the next movie if there is one but I don’t know.
Yeah, he was shown as a mad robot and that makes me not care about him. The themes is something that I understand but if it is shown in a bad way in the movie then I do not care, that is what has happened with David to me. Nope, it is time for something better and yeah I think that they can do that they just have to think a bit and keep Scott away from the story since he only cares about the robot.
"But it is something that was not to everyone's Cup of Tea and maybe something to be Bypassed?"
Yup, leave that and get something that is more interesting.
“but i feel if this is the case and THEY do stick with David as the Creator...”
Even if that fits the themes it is not good. I prefer a good story and characters over themes. To me it has done damage to the whole franchise to be totally honest so get rid of that now.
Make the Engineers more responsible for the original Xeno that we see in Alien. That makes more sense since the Engineers look more like the SJ, mostly when it comes to the size.
This is one reason why I do not like the David story because it is too much about him and movies have limits time wise so if he gets a lot of focus then there is less time for well made human characters. Nope, better human characters first and then we could think about what to do about David. Some people complain about the characters in the Star War prequels well at least they were better written than those in the Alien prequels, that should tell us something.
I replied a lot to you in this TOPIC
So no need to recover some points.... but one i FORGOT to mention on that Topic was your point regarding the Engineers. They did look more Scary and Threatening in Prometheus, this would have been much better if RS used Effects Technology like in the Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.... then our 7ft Actors would have looked like 10ft Engineers instead of 7.5ft Engineers.
In ALIEN COVENANT the Engineers came across as nothing more than slightly taller Humans, which is not Scary.....
I think its hard NOW to make the Engineers Awe Inspiring after Alien Covenant.... but those LV-223 Engineers are likely Genetically Enhanced Engineers/Sub creation they could be to those Engineers what Synthetics and Replicants are to Humans.
The Size of the Engineer was not main Factor for making them EPIC, it was the Display of Strength and their Technology (Bio-Suits) that made them stand out compared to the Alien Covenant Engineers
The PREDATOR is Iconic because its Size and Strength... but it is the Technology (how it uses it) and its Actual Appearance (One Ugly Mutha $"£%£) STRIP away the Technology so a Naked Predator who looks Human and the Predator just would lack that Iconic Bad Ass Alien Life-form that is is.
The Engineers could be shown as Stronger than Humans, but if we saw a Planet 4 Engineer vs a Human where its a 7.5ft vs 6ft Humanoid only the Engineer can throw the Human around like a Human could throw around a Toddler then while this may make them look Powerful to a Degree. They would not match the Awesomeness or Fearsome Nature of a PREDATOR or XENOMORPH
To a Degree they (LV-223 Engineers) may look more awesome than our Planet 4 Engineers but i think its their Technology that will be needed to make them something to be Scared of.
There Appearance may look sort of Majestic but its not Fear Full, but just as Storm Troopers look more Bad Ass then the Rebel Troopers, then so it should be that Fully Suited Engineers could look the better part.
WHILE the Engineers may not look so Scary... in Life Humans can be Scary depending on how Cruel/Evil they are and the Horrific Situations and Actions they carry out on Helpless other Humans... So a Nasty, Horrific Agenda and Situations they Place Humans in could ADD to the FEAR Factor of the Engineers.
The other ASPECT is their Bio-Weapons... The Black Goo and Experiments means our Engineers could unleash a WHOLE Manner of Horrific Beasts onto their Enemies.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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