Another dk rant.
I am tired of waiting years for movies that ultimately disappoint on different levels. I have less time and more years behind me than ahead of me.
Leave the franchise alone at this point for theatrical releases.
I said it before but will say it again- Why not take the franchise into three different paths: one for the creature fans; one for the android fans; one for the human element fans- and maybe have some crossover for some episodes. FFS- there could be a Predator cameo here and there!
sometimes leaving things alone IS the best thing to do and the alien franchise may well prove to be proof of that when the prequels are done. but studios want money. its a problem now with most big budget movies. the art is compromised for the money
I think that would please Fanboys... but indeed that would make money..
I know that a TV Series Spin off would be interesting... but its what do they cover? The Weyland Company Spin Off? be about Synthetics and AI, be about Marines.... the Engineers?
I think no matter what they try and do it would be expected at the Foremost to include the Xenomorph... its a Question than if this is not done Right, then the Beast could get Cremated..
I think a Official Canon NOVEL or Graphic NOVEL would be maybe the safer bet... that can then have its ideas/plot transferred in full or in part to a TV Series or Movie... the Novel route would be a Cheaper way to show things that they can Gauge the Reaction and Interest in.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think we know about the Xenomorph at this point. It could always be there looming while other aspects (WY, Engineers, androids) are developed and fleshed out.
ali81 said, "sometimes leaving things alone IS the best thing to do and the alien franchise may well prove to be proof of that when the prequels are done. but studios want money. "
This comment makes me think of the Jurassic Park franchise reboot. I'm not to excited in seeing the new one coming out in a week. I mean, dino's mixing with humans?! It's a logical continuation, but it's just because the studio's want money...
Unfortunately there are now more bad and mediocre alien movies than good ones. They got it right with the first three Alien movies and then it went downwards. Maybe they could do some TV thing with it like X-files but just a few episodes but they got to be done right. I would be fine if they do well made human characters and put the AI (robots) aside. Perhaps a novel could be alright if they get well done human characters because I would much rather have that then another alien movie with the quality of the prequels.
Perhaps they could make the Engineers interesting enough or give the company a bigger role. I would not be against this but they got to get the human characters right, at least get as may as possible right so we could care about them. Alien Covenant should be an example of how it should not be done.
A novel could be interesting but they got to make the human characters interesting and fleshed out otherwise we will get another AC when it comes to that.
dk said, "Leave the franchise alone at this point for theatrical releases"
I'm going to argue against this at the moment. The idea of the story for Prometheus was spot on. The Alien: Covenant story just got to warped with the idea that a Xeno HAD to be in it. It probably wouldn't have received such bad comments if it wasn't forced into the story. For example, the title has the word A L I E N in it. That is now what everyone is expecting to see, whether they are a fan or not of the whole franchise. Then, how the Xeno was treated in the movie went against everything that the franchise built up with the original four. I mean, Xeno's have rights, YOU KNOW! Alien: Covenant was fairly abusive to the Xeno. It really tested fans long held beliefs of the whole franchise. For example, "where did the Xeno come from?" "Why is the Xeno not scary?" "What are these monkey sounded pale things running around? Where's the Xeno?" (I would like to admit that I did enjoy some of the Neomorph action.)
I think the two prequels we got, and hopefully the final third, are actually a great idea. I would've been very upset if Prometheus wasn't played in theaters. I would HATE to see a Prometheus TV show. I think it would just lose it's unnerving pace since there would have to at least be 24 hours before the next one comes on. Alien: Covenant just got caught up in how corporate can make more money off of a great idea. I would like to see a third and final prequel. After the prequels are done, I really just don't know where the franchise can go. We did the the "Out of the Shadow" trilogy in the novels and I did like the first two (haven't read the third, but I have the book) (I liked the 2nd one better then the first. I felt the first was just stretching the Ripley character to much and it kind of makes it unbelievable since it kind of intertwines with the original four. I'm not going into details though)
So, in short... I feel like the Alien franchise is on tract with the prequels. It's just that sadly Ridley Scott is just getting mixed up with Alien: Covenant. Sadly, I don't know where the franchise can go next, while still staying fresh for the fans...
I was thinking that Alien: Awakening was going to be another Prometheus, in it's own way, but now that Disney is in control and with the fact that I'm not seeing any news on production for the 3rd of the prequels, we could be left in a state of despair since all we now think about is Alien: Covenant...
All hail Prometheus!!!
Hail Hail Prometheus.
the prequel concept was awesome and Prometheus was a great start imo.
I Moon Girl Disney in control? With the Comcast intervention we don't know how the merger is going, so it might be no one is in control right now, meaning no commitment to a sequel.
Regardless who's in control, I'm just surprised that Fox didn't create some form of guarantee that Ridley Scott and continue and finish his prequels. After the final movie, then the Alien franchise should be in limbo (if that's what the new owner wants). It really doesn't sound like that guarantee would be hard to get whoever is slowing down Awakening to sign. It's just there to keep things that were (basically) promised to happen happen. I would've figured Scott would've have wanted that too?
I Moon Girl
Prometheus had some interesting ideas but most of the characters were lame. I agree that the studio or whoever got it totally wrong when they thought that getting the Xeno in was all that was needed and that was not what the majority of the criticism was about. Google the criticism against bad characters and you see that many more had problems with that than the lack of Xenos.
"… are actually a great idea.”
The thing is that you need more than interesting ideas for it to work. It needs quality characters that we as an audience can see ourselves in and support. None of the prequels have had that, Alien 3 was the last time that they got enough characters right for the movie to work, it has been bad since then. My opinion is that if they do not get the characters right then the movie is trash especially when it is a horror movie where we got to feel something for the characters that will die and if it does not manage to do this then the movie fails.
Even though Prometheus is just OK at least it is about more than a crazy robot. It is sad that Alien Covenant became the way it did because they messed up the human characters even Daniels that I felt that we got no connection to. What I understood from Daniels was that she wanted to build a cabin by the lake, that was all. She was a character that I did not get any connection to but at least she was not as annoying as Shaw.
“The Alien: Covenant story just got to warped with the idea that a Xeno HAD to be in it.”
It was more than that to me, it was mostly about lame characters and too much focus on androids. I agree that it did not help that they forced the Xeno into it. We shall see where they will go from here.
I think the characters weren't as bad as you believe them to be. I feel Shaw's character just scratched the surface, but it was just scratched enough to allow us to really start to see what's inside. I think Shaw was done okay. I'm not complaining. Holloway was perfectly casted and did great to support the Shaw character and, in that process, showed us what he is all about too. If the movie didn't develop Holloway well, then I think we wouldn't have had as great of a character as Shaw, like we did, and we would have had a very different movie. I wish I was Holloway, in a way. I liked him (and Shaw). We also got the very blunt Fifield. I loved that guy. What a great character. The smoking pot thing was a bit much, but, hey, what the hell. I'll roll with it! We got lucky with Charlize Therone. I think she has a soft spot for the Prometheus, actually, or is the fact that in the movie Gringo, the medication's name is Prometheum just coincidence? I guess someone else in the film could be a fan too. Still, I liked Vickers. David's character was fantastic!
Peter Weyland was well played and I'm glad he didn't have a big part because, first, the story shouldn't, and, second, it really gets the fans theorizing about Weyland-Yutani and all. The whole story shouldn't be revealed in the first film. Janek was great. To be frank, no complaints AT ALL. Millburn was okay. I just wish he wouldn't have acted a little off when we tried to pet the worm, but let me tell you this... I don't think I ever got so upset in a movie EVER like I did with Millburn trying to sweet talk that worm. Yes, I don't agree with the scene, but, at the same time, I never showed so much emotion so animatively like I did during that scene. If I saw that movie in theaters (I wish I did too), I would probably piss some people off. Who knows? Maybe I wouldn't have been the only one? Ford, played by Kate Dickie, kept the plot rolling when it needed it the most. So we don't know everything about everyone on an expedition... I wouldn't want too. In any logical expedition, there is going to be more people then necessary because what are you going to do if you don't have the right tools are the right people power when your lightyears away from any help? Plus it is a secret mission, so it's good to take care of yourself. There are some other characters I'm missing, I know, but to keep the unnerving pace of the film, we can't have all this character development going on at the same time. If we had some more time at the beginning of the film to develop character, that's cool with me, but the movie is at 2 hours. I can understand why Prometheus is what it is at 2 hours. That is a long movie. Still, I honestly wish it was around 2 and a half hours. 3 hours might be good, especially if you're a fan of the movie like me. I'll watch it!
Thoughts_Dreams said, "It was more than that to me, it was mostly about lame characters and too much focus on androids. I agree that it did not help that they forced the Xeno into it. We shall see where they will go from here."
I feel like the focus on androids comes from the fact that David is obsessed with making the perfect organism, the Xeno. If you take that away from the story, David has nothing to talk about and no reason to try and "convert" Walter. Instead, if David is the creator of the Xeno, we should've got... maybe more discovery of this through Daniels and the crew instead of the movie just blatantly stating and showing this. Or, maybe if we do want a more different movie then Prometheus (fear based upon discovery), we could get a more tradition A L I E N flick where David is somehow in control of some Xeno's and seeks to observe how they actually function and not basing all his DNA manipulations on theories. So, we get a very tradition A L I E N movie with Xeno's killing people possibly not even on Planet 4. Yet, I really loved the pre-production description of Alien: Covenant stating something like, "Colonists land on a paradise planet and discover that David is the only inhabitant". I LOVE IT!
Maybe Alien: Covenant was just to much talking and not enough action. The movie wasn't anywhere near scary. I'd say it is the least scary of all of the Alien movies when judging on the first movie viewing. That's a serious problem with that movie!
Still, the character's are a bit rough in Alien: Covenant. This is a problem with Daniels as she is the main character of the film! I REALLY like Lope. No complaints on him. The military characters could do with less development anyways since they are fairly predictable since they are there to protect... or are they? I mean, they are away from any kind of consequences they would normally face on Earth. I guess that's the kind of character we get with Tennessee.
I really hope David isn't the main character of Alien: Awakening because we just need something different. I can be happy with the David character in Alien: Awakening as long as that character has a minor roll in the finale. Oram and his wife weren't too bad. I feel like as soon as we really started to get an idea of who Oram is, he ends up getting killed shortly later. Karine was a good compliment to Oram.
I do agree that some of the characters could've used more development, like Upworth, Rosenthal (yet in the Origins novel, we get a lot of her), and Ricks. They didn't really get much screen time and then they get killed in a way that wasn't scary in the film. I liked the Faris character. Still, I can't believe she locked Karine in the medical room... She got some screen time though.
My problem with Alien: Covenant isn't so much the characters. It's the fact that throughout the whole movie, there was nothing scary. That's a big disappointment for me. Ridley needs to do whatever he needs to do to at least create one scary part for everybody in the movie. If there aren't any, then something is wrong with the franchise. I can get over it though, as long as Alien: Awakening comes back with lessons learned.
Alien: Covenant had a great base for a story. Not as good as Prometheus, but there is no point doing the same thing twice. There does need to be more drama and character interaction in Alien: Covenant. Still, I blame this on the problem that Fox wasn't listening to Ridley. Ridley knows what to do. Hopefully Alien: Awakening will show this like Prometheus did.
:: Fingers crossed ::
I think that we might have different standards about how the characters should be written. To me I would like them to have well-defined character traits and that they also need to be sympathetic if they are not made to be assholes like Burke (Aliens) for example. Shaw was note likable to me at all. Holloway was just a whiny arrogant asshole who started drinking when his ideas was not supported 100%, sorry to say it but I did not like him one bit. To me if I was a scientist I would think “maybe it is something that I missed?” that would have been the rational way to do it but he just acted like a dick.
Fifield was just a grumpy shithead if you ask me. He and Milburn were annoying but for different reasons. Couldn’t they have written some likable traits to them at least? They were just jerks like they were just in it to be killed. Vickers (Theron) was just a corporate bitch, like a really rotten kind of “do what I say or else” kind of character. I do not blame Theron, I just did not like the character since there was nothing likable about her at all. David was well done in Prometheus, one of the few characters that I liked (the other one was Janek). Unfortunately he was made into a sadistic son of a bitch in AC.
The Weyland character I did nor care for at all. He was just a crazy guy with a God complex that thought that he could get more life just because. Maybe he was supposed to be written that way but I still did not like him, not one bit.
Janek? Hell yeah! I like his down to earth kind of attitude while the scientists were like “we have all these big ideas” he was like “well what ever, I am just here to do my job”. I liked that thing about him and also he was not annoying like F, M and Holloway.
That talking to the worm was just outright fucking stupid. You see a totally unknown monster and you approach it like it is a cat? You do not even know a thing about it so some precaution is good but no, his brain went on vacation.
Ford was a totally forgettable character to me. What was she even there for? The only moment when she did anything was when they tried to animate the head otherwise she was totally anonymous. I do not blame the actor but the character was just either written in a bad way or they edited it in such a bad way so, yeah. She could have been totally written out of the story and that would not have changed anything, that is how I look at it.
“but to keep the unnerving pace of the film, we can't have all this character development going on at the same time. “
The thing to me is that pacing means nothing if the characters are lame but I understand what you are trying to say.
“Still, I honestly wish it was around 2 and a half hours. 3 hours might be good, especially if you're a fan of the movie like me. I'll watch it!”
About the two hour thing, if some additional 30-40 minutes are needed to make better characters I am all for it.
I understand what you say about David wanting to make the perfect organism but to me that is not enough. There has got to be good human characters to support otherwise it just becomes about an evil robot. Daniels was a waste to me, she was not well-written at all. Exactly she was the main character so they should have done a lot better job with her character than how she turned out in the movie.
Lope? I did not get anything what he was about, how he was as a character. What he wanted to achieve by going there and so on. He was totally forgettable, like most of the human characters. They were not annoying like some of the characters in Prometheus, I give them that, but they needed to be a lot better written for me at least to care about them. Tennessee, how was he like a person? To me he was a guy with a hat, end of story. I am sorry, they could have made him better but he was just wasted which I am sorry to say because I think that he could have worked if he was better written.
“I really hope David isn't the main character of Alien: Awakening because we just need something different.”
I totally agree, I am tired of the prequels being about a crazy robot. They should end it here if that is what they are planning for the next movie if there will be one.
Oram, I totally agree that he was killed too early. He was alright with his faith but that he wanted to be practical about things. He was a lot more interesting than Daniels or Tennessee even though he was supposed to have a smaller role compared to them. Unfortunately his wife was not too well-written.
You mention some side-characters, to me they were like whatever because I did not get any connection with them. This was made worse since the supposed main characters were lame.
“My problem with Alien: Covenant isn't so much the characters. It's the fact that throughout the whole movie, there was nothing scary.”
Yeah, it seems like most of the stuff was made about the androids like when they discuss what ever it was. We see the differences between them there and that was interesting but it was too long and too slow, which made it a bit boring.
“I can get over it though, as long as Alien: Awakening comes back with lessons learned… Ridley knows what to do. ”
I am not sure of that is the case though since all that Scott seems to care about is David, but I do not give a F at this point about him. They could make him die in an explosion and I would not care. Actually it would be more likely that I would react like “Oh finally, now we can concentrate on the human characters and not a robot”.
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