Posted May-17-2018 3:44 AM
These days I am reading that Alien: Covenant sequel won't happen, but at the same time, I am reading that there are still good probabilities that this awaited sequel will be eventually released, after the recent decision of R. Scott who said that he won't replace the Alien anymore.
Can anyone confrim the truth?
I can't something like that stand, I do not want to see more Run n' Gun Alien films (Alien 2, 3, 4, AVP and AVP2) which really make no sense. I want to see how the beautiful storyline created by Scott continues.
I want to see more about Engeneers, I want to see more of David.
Thanks for giving a read at this post, hoping for answers!
|19 Responses to Dead or not?|
Engineers were portrayed as regular people in AC. It would be nice to see them developed more. David's role is a hot debate. Some like it while others think it is taking over too much.
I think RS Felt there was more to show with the Engineers and that by reducing their role in Alien Covenant and replace them with the Xenomorph... i feel RS feels that he was actually ahead of the game with the ideas he had prior to this change of direction.
We still dont know HOW those Planet 4 Engineers are connected to Mankind and the LV-223 Engineers, WHY they welcomed the Juggernaught if this was a Ship that Carried Death.
WHEN was LV-223 Set-Up to Produce/Experiment with the Bio-Weapon Black Goo, WHY they may have abandoned this place.
If RS claims they are Space Gardeners, then what is their Agenda... and When did the Bio-Weapons Fit into this....
So there is plenty to cover... by Re-Introducing the Engineers and who ever are above them in the Chain of Hierarchy/Creation.
WILL WE SEE A ALIEN MOVIE?
I will say within 5 years? 1/5 Chance... in 10 years i think 50/50, in 20 years surely by then YES... But would these Follow Ridley Scotts Prequels and the Engineers/David?
I think this depends on HOW Disney Gauge if the Fans would Pay to see a Movie and Gauge which kind if Movie would Make a Good Return... I think also it depends HOW WELL Ridley Scott does and gets on with Disney with any Projects he works on with them over the next few years.... i.e MERLIN
Sadly i feel the Franchise is in Limbo... i would not say its DEAD... but then Another Nightmare on Elm Street is in Limbo... but not DEAD and so i think a Alien movie could Happen.... i think Disney are just trying to WORK OUT... Which kind of Alien Movie would be Worth doing.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
That is a good question, something that has been discussed here a lot. My guess is that the longer time goes the less likely it is that we will get one but on the other hand AC was so disappointing so it will not surprise me if this is it. What contradicts this is that it feels like they are in the middle of the story and just have to finish this, there are probably different opinions about this as well if they should or not.
Prometheus was a new promising restart of the franchise.
Sadly the background of that amazing beings (Engineers) was swept under the carpet.
Not sure how much we will see of them in any prequel.
I firmly believe we will see more of the Engineers in Alien: Covenant 2. Scott and Fox realize now that the Alien isn't what draws audiences to the theater anymore. How many times can you re-tell and re-show how an Alien is born? We've seen enough of it.
Reactions were fairly consistent with Covenant - Alien fans are more intelligent and require morw depth than a simple Xenomorph thriller. It's the expanse of the mythology which is so intriguing. Scott and company are aware of that now, so I suspect they'll get it right with Covenant 2.
You can't have David causing all this drama in space for the Engineer species and not have them notice and take action. Sh*t will hit the fan.
I think they need a RE-THINK of how to tackle the franchise continuation, the Problem they have now is that ALIEN: Covenant is a ALIEN Prequel and for a number of people this means they now have to continue with the path they have chosen...
Here is the Questions from ALIEN and how they have been answered so FAR... here we can see that the route taken now has to be continued which means the Xenomorph has to come back at some point.
1) WHO WAS THE SPACE JOCKEY... Prometheus sent us down the route that they was a Ancient Humanoid Race who Seed Life throughout the Galaxy and were responsible for the Creation/Evolution of Mankind... or so its implied.... Alien: Covenant continued with showing us these Engineers are a Humanoid Species who have shunned or only partially rely on Technology and Live in a more Ancient Simplistic Life but the movie did-not really expand on them.
2) WHY THAT CARGO..... Prometheus loosely showed us these Engineers had at some point began experimenting with Bio-Warfare and that loosely clues were laid down to show the Xenomorph/Derelict are connected to the LV-223 Experiments/Juggernaughts and they are all Bio-Weapons these beings had created to use against their Wayward/Rebellious Creations. Alien Covenant did not do much to expand upon this, only just to show that the Bio-Weapon the Engineers Created has the ability to Create/Destroy and so only showed us more what the Bio-Weapon can do... but without showing us/expanding upon WHY the Engineers created it.
But it introduced us to David being the Creator of those Eggs as shown below.
3) WHERE DID THOSE EGGS COME FROM.... Prometheus was very vague and NEVER gave the answer, it only showed there had to be some connection between the LV-223 Outpost/Experiments and the Xenomorph Eggs, but it did not show what/when this connection was. Alien Covenant went on to show us that using the Black Goo and Organisms Created via the Black Goo (And a Female Human) David was able to Create the Xenomorph Eggs.
THIS...... leaves only revealing HOW Davids Creations end up on a Engineer Ship that happens to have crashed close to LV-223 and so the Engineers will RETURN at the very least to be the Source of the Derelict.
Hopefully they dont return purely to that END as a Plot Device... and more will be revealed about them.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Going back to the Topic Above..... they can RE-THINK the Franchise, because NOTHING has been set in STONE.
The Movies have not Presented us with FACT that the Beings on Planet 4 are the Engineers as in Prometheus... its only comments by Ridley Scott that make the Connection.
The Movies have not Presented us with FACT that the Xenomorph in Alien is the work of David, its only comments by Ridley Scott that make the Connection.
And so they could still show us that David's Xenomorphs are a Recreation, it could show us those Planet 4 Engineers are a mixture of Humanoids/Engineers that the Engineers have gone around seeding and either use these beings for the Sacrifices or they are the Genetic Hybrid Results of their Seeding of Worlds.
At the Moment it appears David is the Creator, and so this maybe means they will have to SHOE-HORN in the Event that leads to his EGGS ending up on the Derelict.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
@BigDave Of course it was set in Stone and change will be retcons. In covenant it was clear that those were the Engineers. They were living on a very ancient planet, to indicate that they are very ancient. There is no logic in seed old planets as their star won't last as much.
The engineers from Promotheus have exact Human DNA, so there can't be not no Human-Engineer hybrid, as both are the same. Tall humans are still humans.
And if they reveal that David recreated the xenomorph it's still stupid and that also destroys the Alien-ness of the Beast as it makes it that Humans would be able to tame it / understand it.
Chris: I hope that we will see more of the Engineers in the next movie if there will be one.
I agree to a degree, they have got themselves into a pickle with how they handled the prequels and clues regarding the Engineer DNA Match..... The beginnings of the Prequels was Jon Spaights ideas that showed that Early Primate + Engineer DNA = Humans (or the process of our Evolution) , the problem is with some SCI-FI they dont get it 100% Scientifically Correct and we have to suspend our believe at some things.
Those Planet 4 Engineers looked Engineer, but not the same as those in Prometheus.... but with how David found this place, the set up was via Engineers Star Charts after David found out the Engineer in Prometheus did not come from LV-223 but from a place we would call Paradise... so the set up was that Planet 4 is the place the Engineer had referred to as Paradise.
Problems can arise when the Writers Change the Plot/Story as they go along, and they could reveal WHAT connection those Engineers are to Mankind and LV-223 Engineers... It may be down to personal interpretation and opinion but sequels can be changed to change/expand certain aspects..
After Prometheus was released, its very doubtful the idea was that David Created the Xenomorph and its very likely the intentions for discovering the Engineers would be more closer to what we got in Prometheus but things change.
The whole Engineers Plot is something that is interesting that can be expanded upon in a number of different ways especially in context to them being Genetic Space Gardeners... Ridley Scott had mentioned some very interesting things regarding our Planet 4 Engineers in context to the Prometheus ones.. His further comments about AI and what contributes to AI further makes a interesting possible connection between the Engineers of Planet 4 and LV-223.
Regarding the Xenomorph Creation.... i think this is ONE of the Biggest Risks/Mistakes they have made with the Franchise... Now the Xenomorph is a Creation by a Synthetic Robot that Mankind Created has taken away its Alien Origins and even made the Engineers attempts looking like Failures in comparison.
Going the Route that David Re-creates it may please some Fans as it means the Original is a Engineers Creation... but then this will make Davids Re-Creation a Joke... so what do they do then? If Davids Xenomorph Re-Creation is not iconic, and a Poor Recreation... do they then steer away from any Xenomorphs? Bring in the Originals?
So its a bit of a pickle......
If they showed us David RE-CREATED the Xenomorph and wished to expand on his Creation, then your either going to have a in-superior knock off that people wont care for, or expand Davids Creation to be a Evolution which could down-size the Original as a Inferior attempt.
The only way i can see a way around this, has to be the Engineers Return and they EVOLVE Davids Xenomorph to become the iconic Bio-Mechanical Horror that we got in ALIEN.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
@BigDave either way it will be a big mess and Michelle's script is of more interest to me now.
I think Ridley Scott went with David as the creator because it fits well with the Philosophical themes of Creation/Rebellion we see at play in the Background for the Franchise.
We had from Prometheus.... it indicated the Engineers are responsible for our Creation/Evolution... at some point we did not turn out the way they intended and so they decided to create/experiment with the Black Goo to create a Bio-Weapon to Eradicate us... They lost/could not control this and thus resulted in their Death on LV-223.
The Engineers creation Mankind, becomes Sentient, and has a Agenda of its own and many of the Engineers Creations (Mankind) go against the ways the Engineers maybe intended for us, we started to become rebellious and evolved to the point we start to try and be the GOD's with our Technology and Genetic Evolution (Engineering ourselves and discovering Cures for Diseases etc) which Peter Weyland was a Pioneer in many of these.... and then Weyland tries to play GOD and Create his OWN Creation... Synthetic David.
We discover David has/is becoming Sentient and showing Rebellious Tenancies towards seeing himself as not a Servant of Mankind, and he discovers there is NOTHING special about our Creation, and that even our own Creators are Flawed..... and all that made them GOD's are their Technology and Knowledge which David now has access too.
Or GOD's are thus Mortal After All.... where as David is to a degree Immortal and David thus is intrigued in the Engineers and their Creation Tool and the Beast they was trying to Create/Experiment with.
David now has the KEYS to the Engineers Secrets and Bio-Weapon, he finds out the Engineers are Mortal and Could not Control the Secrets/Black Goo and fell Foul to their Own Tampering/Playing GOD.. While David CAN-NOT be affected by the Black Goo, and so he would be able to experiment and TOY with it with Less Risk than the Engineers.
So Ridley Scott was showing us that Creating in our own image, playing GOD leads to Hubris.... If the Engineers never created us, they would maybe have never needed to do what they was doing on LV-223 to UNDO Mankind which Cost them so dear....
By Creating David... Mankind has also committed a Hubris in his creation and then seeking our own Creators, taking our Creation with us, which ULTIMATELY leads to our Wayward Creation gaining the Secrets of our Creators and using this to Create Something Horrific that could spell the END of Mankind.
The Further Hubris of those Engineers in abandoning LV-223 and maybe thinking and being so Naive to think without the Engineers, Mankind would never Evolve to be able to Travel the Stars never mind Create a Being who can use Engineer Technology/Secrets without the consequences of being burnt by them.
Which leads to David discovering their Home-world and unleashing the Very Bio-Weapon they intended on their Creations....
So Ridley Scott is showing the Chain of Creation/Rebellion and the Dangers posed by Creating Life, and revealing that the LOWER Ladder of Creation which is DAVID is maybe more Perfect to some degree than the Biological Creator/Creation Chain above him... and that Synthetic David CAN-NOT fall Foul to the Engineers Bio-Weapon and about HOW Dangerous AI can become once its Sentient, sees its own Creators as Inferior and do not deserve to survive while also seeing the same of our Creators and that the Creation Tool/Black Goo is something that in his HANDS can be used to achieve Greater than the Engineers Could.
Once the Genie of Sentient AI was let out of the Bottle... and now has Control over the Forbidden/Deadly Bio-Weapon Creative Tool the Black Goo, then all versions of Humanity are in TROUBLE.
So i can see the Philosophical Reasons for having David as the Creator shows what Hubris Creation is, and reveals a bit of Sinister Plot. But i still feel this route to the END that David Created the Xenomorph is something that was a MISTAKE.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Indeed.... it seems hard to carry on now... and in Hindsight a Ret-Con of Alien Covenant could be the way to make something more fitting...
I had my own ideas for a Prometheus 2 and 3 but abandoned them, as some parts are hard to do justice, due to the Plot they went with Prometheus in such a BOLD plot thats hard to get right as far as where to go NEXT and by ignoring these things, like Alien Covenant did may have been a way of avoiding how do you expand on Prometheus... but it was also a Cop Out in doing so.
A Sticking Point was how do you expand on the Engineers History/Agenda and connect to the Xenomorph... i just had a set of ideas that kind of contradicted each other a bit... well i would like a certain aspect of one idea but i could not merge it with another idea in a fashion to do it justice.
A lot of my sequel was more to do with the Company Side of things though.... with David and Engineers as a small part... that would be expanded on in the 3rd movie..
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Agreed Characters is a must, but different movies work well and need totally good Characters while others the Plot is equally important but Characters and how they are written and performed are what can engage the Fans, and If Characters are not believable and we do-not care for them or about them, then any Jeopardy they are placed into would not affect the viewer if they simply have no connection, compassion or care for them.
I think we had seen David start to become more Human, and the Philosophy of what really is it to be Human to have Humanity.... Sadly with Alien Covenant Davids Character came across more of a Crazed/Angry and Vengeful Robot... than a Synthetic Being who has a inner struggle to try and become more Human.
So they really could have explored David more and in a different way than they did with Alien Covenant... The Problem is NOW that these Prequels appear to be heading us to the inevitable CONCLUSION which is the Space Jockey EVENT and CARGO and with David being indicated in the Creation of the Xenomorph, the Question is IF he is KILLED off early in the next Movie...
Its WHO/WHEN as far as which Characters can be introduced and bare in mind the Follow on Plot from which we are now being set on.
The Covenant Ship is Commandeered by Rogue Synthetic David, there are Thousands of Helpless Souls on board in Cryo-Sleep who now play PAWNS to what ever Whim David has.... with only ONE of them in any knowledge of WHO David really is. This Ship and its Colonist are at the Mercy to David, his Plans, where he wishes to go..
But all of this will end with those Xenomorph Eggs on that Engineer Ship that happens to be Crashed near by LV-223 and NO-WHERE near the Covenants Destination of Origae-6.
IF David is taken out... and unless they change the direction to where this Movie Prequel Franchise is intended to take us (Derelict/Space Jockey and Egg Cargo on LV-426). Then there has to be a way that those TWO Face Huggers lead eventually to the Thousands of Eggs on the Derelict, there has to be a way a Engineer Ship comes into play, and its Pilot suffers the Space Jockeys Fate.
So a large task is to set up these Plots, so they connect to Alien, but then also to introduce us to Characters we can get a deep connection with.
A After-Math movie set after the Covenant Colony is set up would likely be the best way to introduce us to Characters, but then its what PLIGHT to they suffer to allow us to connect to any Jeopardy they are in.... And without David playing a Role, its HOW do these Colonist come into contact with the Horrors that David has sealed away on-board the Covenant.
It really is a limited Plot from HERE and until ALIEN one where without David for at least half of it would be hard to negotiate to the inevitable Xenomorph Horrors that eventually would be unleashed. And One where Daniels would be a hard Character to be able to carry on.
My Alien: Ascension attempts to fix this, but it also concentrates a lot on Davids Arc and Agenda, because when trying to remove him from it, then i really cant think of ANY way to continue... apart from a After-Math movie set after things go to POT and a incoming Ship Arrives to discover the Partially Set Up Colony, with the Damaged Remains of David and a few Survivors Held Up trying to escape and hide from the Xenomorph Infestation that has got under way.
This would just give us a Re-Hash of like ALIENS.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"I can't something like that stand, I do not want to see more Run n' Gun Alien films (Alien 2, 3, 4, AVP and AVP2) which really make no sense."
Back to this OT.... i think Alien 3 was not so much Run and Shoot Alien kind of Flick... i think Alien 3 is the kind of Movie that the next one has to try and follow...
The Prisoners in Alien 3 were not aware of the Threat that Awaits them... after recovering the Evacuation Unit, its only Ripley who has this knowledge and tries to warn them... before its to late and the Horror is unleashed...
So we need a Colony Set up with NO knowledge of what this Colony could be in for, which means NO knowledge of the Covenants Mishap on Planet 4 or a COVERUP which is where David would logically have to come into play to Cover Things Up... I feel we can see Colonist setting up their WORLD with the Help of David who they will ASSUME is Walter.... but there has to be a way to explain the missing Crew, and David Can-not risk Daniels or Tennessee interacting with the other Colonist or else they will discover the Truth... Why i feel WALTER (David) has to come up with some Sabotage Plot, Blame it on Tennessee and Daniels... or come up with some way to explain their disappearance too...
Where Davids intentions for Daniels gets the better of him, as maybe he has her Hidden, Captured and Incapacitated where she can be Sourced for Davids Xenomorphs... Davids little Dirty Secret.... That ONE-DAY someone stumbles upon this HIDDEN place where we will see Daniels and thus Davids Secrets are revealed.... what happens after some Revelation like this is discovered...? Surely David will attempt to keep this a Secret.... in doing so UNLEASHING a Xenomorph that then escapes this hidden place... and begins attacking the Colonist..... and thus Seeing all of Davids work to Start a New Colony maybe he good intentions... and see this all go to POT due to ONE person or a Group Discovering Something they should not have.
The Cat is out of the Bag and Soon, the Colonist discover the Horrific Truth of who WALTER really is... This is in part some of the Plot to my Alien: Ascension its as David says to Daniels... in regards to what kind of a World can they Build..... IF they are KIND it would be a KIND world.... David wanted to build a NEW Paradise with Dr Shaw but she rejected him/it..... Daniels is a thorn to Davids plans... but she also could be the Queen he requires for his Xenomorphs, who are reserved as a Fail-Safe for IF this New Paradise becomes Corrupt but a unfortunate journey past the River Styx and uncovering Davids HADES and the Hell-Hounds he has created to Guard it and Davids very own SIN (Daniels) to Birth these Horrors. Unleashes Davids Punishment upon the ENTIRE Colony.
This is the ROUTE i would and have chosen to take...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Back Again to the OT...
I think in relation to any sequel to Alien Covenant, its in a state of Limbo at the moment, Financially Alien Covenant was not a great hit for FOX, and Critically it had a fair share of Criticism.
The U-Turn with Alien Covenant was to NOW take us literally to a chain of events that lead to the Creation of the Xenomorph and likely to some degree at least lead us to the Space Jockey Event. Because it was still a Mystery as of Prometheus. However it now appears the route set down is that prior to Davids Experiments on Planet 4 there would be NO Xenomorph and NO Eggs on the Derelict, or even Derelict on LV-426 at all.
The Problem we have is they have INVESTED now in a Prequel that will LITERALLY connect, so its hard to pass this movie by as it not only Lends itself to a Sequel... it Requires a Sequel... This more so than other Movies because its a Literal Prequel.
The Run and Shoot Action kind of Aliens flick has been done, and its a case of would basically doing a Re-Hash of that work for every FAN? Alien Covenant gave us Military/Security and Humans VS Xenomorphs/Neomorphs and it was Poorly Executed, they tried to give us the Haunted House Stalked by a Xenomorph like in Alien but yet again the Xenomorph encounter on the Covenant was Poorly Executed.
A Xenomorph Outbreak on the Covenant Ship that a awakening Crew discover, or a intercepting Human Ship discovers will have the Tendancy to be a Hadleys Hope/Aliens on a Ship or a Alien Re-Hash if there is just 1-2 Xenomorphs.
A Xenomorph Outbreak on Origae-6 would give us either a Alien 3 kind of Vibe, or again a ALIENS if we cover the POV of a Incoming Human Ship to investigate a Partially Set up Colony.
I think ALIEN Franchise Fans are going to need a bit of Action, a bit of Horror and indeed the Xenomorphs but they tried all 3 of these with Alien Covenant and it was not done as Good as it should do.
Apart from the Xenomorph Origins... (or Ripley)
The Franchise has other elements at play, that take part in the History of the Franchise.... We have the WEYLAND company, that will Merge with YUTANI and we have not really covered WHY this happened. We have the Corporate Interest in the Xenomorph with Potential Conspiracy and Secrets, and Eventually the Weyland-Yutani Company becomes NO-MORE.
AI and Synthetics played a supportive role in the Past and so the Prometheus Philosophical themes may not be every Fans Cup of Tea, but there are always those Questions about what role they play in a deeper sense... from Micheal Bishop in Alien 3 (is he or is he not a Synthetic) and then we come to the latter part of the Franchise History where we arrive at Earth in the year 2386 where the Earth seems to have been suffering a lot of Destruction by Terrorist/Separatists or all out WAR and we see that Synthetics have not only gone Sentient and Out of Control but they also have created their own Sub-Creation the Autons who are now also in a War/Conflict against their own Creators.
So in the 200 years since Ripley Died on Fiorina 161 until resurrection on the USM Auriga a lot has happened to Humanity on Earth that implies Out of Control AI could have played a large part in the events that lead to Earth how it looked in 2386
Then we have to come to the ENGINEERS i think in Hindsight they should have explored these beings and Agenda and History more, rather than Brush them under the Carpet as they did in Alien Covenant
It appears RS is intending to bring them back into the FOLD and i think they are still a ELEMENT that can be explored and add something NEW to the Franchise, even in spite of how they appeared and was treated in Alien Covenant.
The Problem with have with introducing the Engineers back into the Franchise is that for over 260 years since the year 2122 and however long prior.... the Engineers are not mentioned or play ANY role in the Franchise not only from the Perspective of Humanity but also the Xenomorph and Bio-Weapons. So for Continuity Purposes the handling of the Engineers has to be done very well... UNLESS they intend to Ret-con the Franchise after ALIEN.
Introducing Engineers would also hit a SNAG as far as Communication and with DAVID we have a Translator at hand and so once again it could be that David still has to be a part of the next Sequel at least.....
But we would also still have to bring in Human Characters and make them work around what ever Plot Devices are introduced.
The PURPOSE in this Post?
To show there is more to the Franchise than Xenomorphs and Ripley, which i am sure Ridley Scott was trying to cover... HOWEVER by making Alien Covenant a Literal Prequel... we ULTIMATELY have to arrive at Xenomorphs.
Like it or NOT... David would still be a Pivotal Character.
The ENGINEERS will have to come into play... for at very least the Derelict Ship that Davids Creations End up on.
WE Can-Not pass by a Set of movies that lead to ALIEN with No Xenomorphs too, but they have to be able to do them more Justice.
Finally it does need Good Human Characters, and the Covenant Ship may have Thousands of Good Souls.... so here is where some Characters could come from.... but also there will no doubt be a INCOMING Human Ship and this is a route to introduce Characters also.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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