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what happens if the queen is killed

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ali81

Apr-23-2018 7:17 AM

basically think of Aliens without the explosion at the end. the queen leaves the hive. what happens to the hive? is there a next in line to the throne? does the hive become chaotic and die?

22 Responses to what happens if the queen is killed

ignorantGuy

Apr-23-2018 7:40 AM

Maybe the eldest remaining Xenomorph mutates into a new queen? Or they maybe duke it out? Or maybe they hold elections, with some Republican and Democrat Xenomorphs.

ali81

Apr-23-2018 8:07 AM

rock paper scissors?

BigDave

Apr-23-2018 8:59 AM

This is similar to discussions we had in the past Regarding the Egg Morph.

If we ASSUME  a Hive has ONE Queen...  we have to ask HOW does a Queen come to be?

But its more than just that, i think the most Logical Explanation has to be once a Hive is Set up, the Xenomorph Hive Construction (The Material the Walls etc are built with) either let of certain Pheromones or Signals that interact with the Eggs and Queen.

There has to be Logically some way the Hive Complex, Eggs and Queen can interact with each other even at the base level of Pheromones.

So as that maybe Once a Queen has died or leaves the HIVE Permanently maybe some Eggs Gestate a Drone Xenomorph instead of Warriors.  Or a Royal Face Hugger?

The Drone Xenomorph i had the inclination that this is what Gestates from a Xenomorph Embryo when the Embryo is  away from the HIVE/Cargo of Eggs.   Where it is out of reach of signals be it Pheromones, Telepathy or something else.

The Drone is Born and its Purpose is to EGG MORPH a host into a Royal Face Hugger which then would Gestate a Queen and then set up a New Hive.

Another route could be that WHEN a Queen Dies or Leaves the HIVE the Warrior Xenomorphs can Manipulate Eggs to Gestate a Royal Face Hugger.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

Apr-24-2018 1:01 AM

@BigDave 

I've always liked the Sierra/Monolith's Xenomorph hierarchy structure from Aliens versus Predator 2/Primal Hunt.

If warriors are more matured drones as Cameron stated:

Drone > Warrior > Praetorian > Queen > Empress

I believe if the only queen is absent from the hive, then perhaps the most oldest warrior would molt into a praetorian than into a proper Queen. Although we didn't see any Praetorians in the Alien films unfortunately. Perhaps Hadley's Hope didn't have a big enough hive to need praetorians? Yet again, I mean after all praetorians were basically young queens that haven't developed neither a resin throne nor an ovipositor (egg sac)

I Raptus

Apr-24-2018 1:07 AM

BigDave 

The Drone Xenomorph i had the inclination that this is what Gestates from a Xenomorph Embryo when the Embryo is  away from the HIVE/Cargo of Eggs.   

Love it! Brilliant and chilling purpose for the drone!

 

In some of the expanded universe novels, comics and games there is also the Praetorian strain. A sort of heir-in-waiting juvenile Queen whom acts as an honour guard to the sitting Queen. When the Queen dies or is slain the Praetorian ascends as the Queen. 

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Praetorian

 

Above the Queen is the Queen's Mother and Empress Queen (The Ancient Queens) and they are succeeded by the Palatine strain.

 

Praetorian 

I Raptus

Apr-24-2018 1:12 AM

Sorry Xenotaris you beat me to it :) 

I agree, I like this hierarchy too, though BigDave's idea seems more eerie and alien

BigDave

Apr-24-2018 8:35 AM

I never got as far as them in the first AVP or AVP2 Primal Hunt... i also do-not read the comics etc.... not much anyway...

But looking at the Praetorian it could be something to be incorporated, but this basically means a ELITE Xenomorph that Guards the Queen..  And we would assume that there would be more than ONE of these but certainly not many of them...

It makes for a interesting idea i guess, where we can assume these stay close to the incapacitated Egg Laying Queen...  Guarding the Queen and tending to the Queen....  But we DO-NOT see any in Aliens... maybe the HIVE was Young and so NO  Praetorian's have been Created/Evolved yet.... Maybe THIS is what awaited Newt?

This kind of Hierarchy would be interesting, but what when the Queen Dies, or Leaves the Hive and is no longer around?  Do the say 2-4 Praetorian's Fight it Out and the Winner becomes the Queen but what kind of Process after this Fight Evolves the Winner?  If they obtain something from the Queen... how does this work if a Queen is Captured instead?

While interesting i think this fits more with the Popcorn Comics and Games.

I would still like to think back to the plans for ALIEN and that would be to Question what Purpose is the Egg Morph.... if it was to Create another Xenomorph.... then surely the Drone would have been better either...   using Lambert and Parker too so we have TWO Eggs and TWO Hosts which leads to another TWO Xenomorphs giving us THREE!

Or again using Lambert and Parker and  and if Dallas was being Turned into a Egg and not just Held in place as a HOST then we could have FOUR Xenomorph Eggs...

The only Logical Sense to only needing TWO Bodies for what looked like a EGG and a Host for the EGG would be IF the result is a EGG Laying Xenomorph.

This would also explain the Aesthetic Differences between the Warriors and the Alien Drone...  it would also explain why the Alien 3 Runner was more like the Alien Drone as far as the Head Aesthetic was concerned.   And so a SET-UP Hive and/or Birth of a Queen once at Egg Laying Stage releases Pheromones or similar to Prevent Drones.

Unless the Face Hugger Impregnates the Host a CERTAIN Distance away from the HIVE...  as for the QUEEN maybe she does not want a Rival Queen? This would also EXPLAIN why the Xenomorphs Carried the Hosts to be Cocooned near/in the Hive itself.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

Apr-25-2018 12:27 AM

@Big Dave

Well Hadley's Hope had a Praetorian but it then it grew up in to the Queen that Ripley encounters. Since the first concepts of the Preatorians came from AVP2 (2001), they were described as young queens who molted from the warrior caste. 

So if we combined the Egg Morphing ability with the Queen, lets say that Lambert and Dallas were used for host, while Brett and Parker were turned into eggs. I think Big Chap/Kane's Son being the older xenomorph would molt first into a warrior, then into a preatorian, then molt into a Queen.

Xenotaris

Apr-25-2018 12:38 AM

I recommend Aliens versus Predator 2 and its expansion Primal Hunt, you can either buy it on Amazon or Ebay. Its probably the only AVP related media that has true relevance to Alien series.

ali81

Apr-26-2018 7:08 AM

its relevant aslong as fox or now Disney don't come along and disprove it as alien started as an onscreen franchise so id say what happens in the films is what is infact canon but until proven otherwise, the comics and novels can be considered canon. I prefer the xeno molting and growing into a queen rather than the super face hugger idea. from a logical perspective it could put the queen in a potentially dangerous position if she is the first to be born with no drones or warriors to protect her.

BigDave

Apr-26-2018 7:43 AM

I think the whole Praetorian idea explored in Comics/Games is something a certain portion of the Fanbase would be up for.... while the Egg Morph = Queen is something the Alien fans who disprove of the Camerons Aliens or the Comics would prefer.

I can kind of understand Camerons Explanation that the Big Chap would evolve to the Warriors, and that the Protective Dome/Glass would eventually disappear but we have to ask what was its Purpose?

If it was to Protect the Xenomorphs Brain/Mechanics behind its Head, as its Developing then i guess this would make Sense... Much like a Baby Human do not have Thick Formed Bone at the Top of their Skulls but this Hardens as the Infant grows and develops.

Because in affect Camerons Aliens where intended to have the Protective Visor/Dome Glass but they was to Fragile and kept breaking or coming away and so he did without them.

Only the Head Underneath is different to that under the Big Chap... mainly as far as the detail of the Human Skull Beneath.

But this is not too clear under the Actual Big Chap Glass/Visor

And more so in Full Color Glory

And so Ignoring any Shot of the Big Chap without that Glass/Dome you can not really imagine how detailed it would be like underneath.

Therefor Camerons take on the Evolution is something that kind of can be accepted, its certainly only a bit odd IF we compared Camerons Xenomorph vs the Big Chap minus the Visor etc.

And so from Camerons Xenomorphs the Evolution to a Praetorian is something that indeed could make some sense...  But the difference from a Praetorian  to  a Queen is much more different, but who knows what Process could happen to Evolve to this and so it CANT be ruled out as Plausible for the Movie Franchise.

I just think the Egg Morph is a disturbing Scene, and its just how does this FIT with the Xenomorph... i have spoken to some Aliens Fans who Refuse to even contemplate it or any ideas that Remove the Queen and so are BUGGED OUT (Pun intended) by what Alien Covenant had shown.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

Apr-26-2018 9:47 AM

I'm all for the Egg Morphing scene, I think it complements the queen stage in a way. To start a hive you need minions. But also I believe the egg morphing ability is probably suppressed when a queen is nearby because like in bees and ants, if one of the workers starts reproducing on its own chances are they get killed by the hive.

Ingeniero

Apr-26-2018 11:44 AM

Great point regarding a queen born without drone protection ali81. I believe once the mutagen was introduced to the story that there is now more that one way to produce a queen (egg morphing, mutagen building).

To combat a queen, you'll need this below:

dk

Apr-26-2018 11:34 PM

The egg morph scene was excellent and added a whole other sinister "alien" dimension. After decades, it could be done in a slower more gruesome way too. Prometheus demonstrated that in its own way with Holloway's transformation.

As for the Xeno carapace, as cool as the original looks, the opaque version without seeing its eyes is very menacing.

Ingeniero

Apr-27-2018 2:40 PM

I thought the egg morph scene was excellent too and it's nice to see it included in the director's cut dk

BigDave

May-01-2018 9:28 AM

Another thing mentioned before.....

There could be DIFFERENT Cargo Holds on the Derelict.

Thus the Alien Big Chap and Aliens Warriors could be different and maybe Procreate Different because they are TWO different Variations of the Bio-Weapon.

Alien: Engineers shows us the Ships had Multiple Cargo Holds where EACH had a slightly different Version of the Bio-Weapon.

The only Problem with this would be HOW the Runner Alien in Alien 3 had a similar Head to the Original and NOT like the ones in Aliens.  We could also ponder the same for the Alien Resurrection Clone Xenomorphs.

So again i think the Topic is still open for DEBATE ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

May-01-2018 9:48 PM

HOW the Runner Alien in Alien 3 had a similar Head to the Original and NOT like the ones in Aliens. Nice one BigDave! I would suggest atmosphere/environment played a part. The Aliens creatures were on a developing planet in a hive at a huge heat source while A and A3 were not- the egg came from LV 426 but ended up on a ship in space (that's a dome scratcher but there it is). Additionally, it is interesting the Runner did not have dorsal tubes unlike any other Xeno.

BigDave

May-02-2018 9:03 AM

Totally Plausible

Would make sense that the Dorsel Tubes could be some kind of Breathing Apparatus?  And so with a Breathable Environment in Alien 3 the Runner did not need them...  Off Course we have to ignore the AVP Movies ;)   We have to ponder does the AR Xenomorphs count, as the Station was Habitable but so was Hadleys Hope.

I think a lot comes from NEVER having any real in depth Back Ground Manual to Stick to as far as the Xenomorph and WHY there are differences.  It appears each New Movie Ignores what LORE/Clues have been set down before them.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

May-03-2018 8:35 AM

That depends on how authoritarian their society is. If they have not been used to think for themselves they might get dizzy and worried and so they do not know what to do. Xenos in panic with fitting headache, stomach pains, dizziness and so on. The once dangerous Xeno army is now reduced to a bunch of constipated, sweating bunch of creatures hysterically crying. ;)

I seriously think that egg-morphing seems interesting, it would also be awesome if it would be based on something real in nature.

Having different kind of Xenos is something that I like but then you can wonder how come there are different kinds. Lack of attention to things like that might be a problem but at the same time it is interesting.

daliens

May-03-2018 10:54 AM

I thought dorsal tubes were for snorkeling

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

May-03-2018 2:47 PM

"Having different kind of Xenos is something that I like but then you can wonder how come there are different kinds."

I think this just shows the constant evolving and changing of the Plot/Story.

Alien Engineers we see the Engineers have been Creating and Experimenting with 7-8 different Versions of the Xenomorph as a Bio-Weapon, while a bit ambiguous it appears to me that there may be a Native Organism from LV-426 in that Story that the Engineers had Experimented with to Create the Various Xenomorphs.  The Method used to Create these Hybrids was likely the Urns.

So i ASSUMED.. from reading a number of times Alien Engineers.

*The Organism Holloway is infected by is something the Engineers had encountered and witnessed the results of its Life-Cycle.  They then tried to Re-Engineer this Organism into a Bio-Weapon.

*The Urns Fifield Runs into contains the Scarabs that have consumed/obtained DNA related to the Xenomorph and thus its likely they used the Sacrificial Scarabs on the Organism they encountered to attempt to Engineer the Perfect Bio-Weapon.. just how David had done so with the Black Goo and his various Experiments.

WHILE Prometheus Toned down any Xenomorph's there are clues there that suggest similar had been going on at LV-223, and we have to Ponder do the other Temple mounds Contain different versions of the Black-Goo and thus Different Strains than the Deacon one?

ALIEN COVENANT has shown us that the use of the Black Goo can be used to create a large Variety of Xenomorph related Species.

So the potential/likely hood to explore various related but different Xenomorph/Deacon/Neomorph Type Organisms is HUGE.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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