Early draft of, "The Crossing" reveals more about David and Shaw12,472 Views46 RepliesAdd A Reply
We Got This Covered posted an article (http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/alien-covenant-draft-script-shows-different-opening-sequence/) that details some of the differences between an early draft of Ridley Scott's prologue to Alien: Covenant, The Crossing, and what we saw on online.
- Shaw survived off of fruit and water found on the Juggernaut
- Shaw reattached David's head because she was afraid of him dying, leaving her alone in space
- David puts on a nice guy act and the two even show hints of becoming something even more than friends
-David drops the act once they arrive at Planet 4. He snaps Shaw's neck and bombards the Engineer city.
As the author of the article wrote, this version is much more explicit in it's telling of their journey. I like it! I enjoyed what we received very much, the ambiguous nature of the motivations and what not are very cool and fit with Scott's Prometheus.
Still though, I think a more explicit telling of their journey and relationship would have done Covenant some favors. PLUS this would have been a better way to show Shaw's end in my opinion. To see all of that and then her true fate in Covenant, wow.
What do you guys think? A cool idea, or is the final result better?
Not a map, an invitation
"To continue the story of David and Shaw would have been very interesting"
Potentially yes.... but its something that could have been hard to do, a Question would have been if they should/would have encountered any Engineers or related beings and then how these beings would have reacted to David and Dr Shaw.
If we expanded on the Crossing and then what we see of Dr Shaw in Alien Covenant... it would have been a movie that would have covered basically David and Dr Shaw interacting, David then killing her/using her for his experiments, David then experimenting with various Life-Forms and maybe we could see some alive Engineers being experimented on too.
This would be kind of limited, as far as what a broad audience would want to see, and as its a Alien Movie, it would simply not be enough of a Alien movie, and as a Prometheus sequel again it would not be enough of a Alien movie for the general public/Alien Fans (not inc Prometheus ones)
its doing a movie as described above, and then asking does David find/capture a few alive Engineers and what kind of dialect do they have etc.... because this would expand the movie a little.
But as FOX wanted a story to bring in the Xenomorph and indeed having a incoming Human Ship that comes across the Aftermath of what David had done... simply having a movie like i explained above as a Expanded Crossing ==> Few months/years prior to the Covenant.... would maybe be something a lot of Fans would not want to be interested in, and if this sets up Alien Covenant, maybe fans would be turned off the idea to go and see Alien Covenant, if the prequel to it (Prometheus 2) was something they could not engage with...
And also adding some expanded Crossing etc by having this as a extra 30-40 Minutes at the start of the movie would then give away a lot of the Plot and Surprises for when the Covenant Crew Arrive etc.. and having a 30-40 Minute Crossing/What David had done in those years Section in the middle of Alien Covenant would be maybe too much a large break up in the Alien Covenant movie.
So we have to kind of understand why we got what we did...
It CERTAINLY Warrants a Novel/Book of the events post Prometheus to prior to Alien Covenant, a Novel with a Section that has some images/notes (like Davids Workshop) would have been Fantastic.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"It CERTAINLY Warrants a Novel/Book of the events post Prometheus to prior to Alien Covenant, a Novel with a Section that has some images/notes (like Davids Workshop) would have been Fantastic."
I would love to read that book especially if it would include what David found out about the engineers' ways he mentioned in Advent.
I wonder what was the meaning of Alien Covenant Origins. Was it supposed to prepare the fans for a Covenant sequel film? I think people wanted to know what happened on planet 4 before Covenant's arrival.
"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"
Well, according to an interview with Harper, it was Ridley Scott who wanted to end the focus on the relationship between David and Shaw. It would have been interesting but also very limiting? Just David and Shaw and some engineers would perhaps be hard to make something out of? So, they had to bring in another party - The Covenant Crew. In order for that to work, to get new main characters, you would have to end the focus on David and Shaw and she would have to be dead? The logic from Prometheus also gives us this development of David - the rebel who turns against his creators? The AI focus is also consistent with Scott’s view of AI as dangerous and contact with extraterrestrials as well (just as the sadly departed Hawking).
The black goo has been given many names, such as xenovirus, mutagen and pathogen. Personally, I like the name mutagen best since that seems to be the main purpose of the liquid? It’s supposed to mutate its host into something different and highly aggressive. Interestingly, Holloway didn’t become aggressive, whereas Fifield did. The indigenous worms also mutated into the hammerpedes which also became aggressive. It seemed to work primarily as a pathogen on the engineers (well, perhaps they mutated also but they didn't seem to become aggressive towards one another?) whereas fungi changed, mutated, evolved into the spore-sprouting thing we met in AC?
A book between Covenant and Prometheus is a great idea! Would make it easier to make a slower, lore heavy, lovecraftian, ODD story. Much easier to make Prometheus 2 that way.
Not a map, an invitation
This idea that a film featuring David and Shaw and the Engineer Homeworld which Damon Lindelof has indicated has not yet been "reached" would be difficult to make is undermined by BR2049. It has one main character who is joined by another as they find the answer to a riddle. It would have been adult, deeply philosophical, breath taking in its portrayal of a dystopian world and would pursue the themes of 2001 which is essentially what Prometheus is all about but it would not have been an ALIEN movie. It would simply have given context to the Xenomorph which was created out of the experiments on LV 223. Making David the creator of denture features was all "bread and circuses" and has backfired.
I actually think Blomkamp was right if your gonna do a retread go full on and get the whole band together again. Whether that or a Prom 2 would have actually sold who knows. But my generation just LOVES nostalgia with a low sense of audacity and real challenge. "Just play the same tunes"
All life comes from the gift taken by the Acolyte set down by the tear drop ship. That was tainted by a fall and produced the catastrophe of LV 223 as Ridders said, E Bola like, that was a perfectly respectable beginning for penis head.
I think when trying to piece together what may have been as far as what could lead to the Crossing, and so maybe this reply fits a bit to what Michelle was saying..
We have TWO Survivors of Prometheus....
Dr Shaw... A Scientist who expected that going to LV-223 will reveal some answers/truths behind the creation of Mankind and our Purpose in the Grand Scheme of things... What she discovers contradicts her FAITH..... there are no Gods like her Faith has, these beings are connected to ourselves but they are Mortal Advanced Ancient Humanoids... who had made a lot of effort in our creation and nurturing and then they attempted to create something to Destroy/Replace us and then after this failed, they apparently abandoned us.
Dr Shaw has NOTHING, No Parents, No Fiance and Can-Not have Children.... All she wants NOW is Answers... Why did THEY create us, WHY did they want to Destroy us, WHAT Changed their minds... SHE would be willing to take the RISK of Death if it even gives her the slightest Chance of getting her Answers.. and a Part of her holds on to her FAITH that maybe there is a GOD or beings above these Engineers and maybe THEY are more Benevolent like her Faith seems to indicate.
David is alone and FREE from being a Servant to Weyland and Mankind, he has spent his whole life, seeing Weylands Fascination with Perfection/Creation and then Pursuit to Prolong his Life from the Inevitable Climax that is Death. David would know he is SUPERIOR to Humans in almost every way, and provided he is maintained he WILL NEVER DIE and having more Free-will in his Programming than other Robots... David would start to ask WHY should he Serve a In-Superior being.. what makes Humans more Deserving to be the ones David should Serve. This is very much the same kind of thinking that leads to the Fall of Lucifer
David has spent years being treated as a Machine/Servant instead of on equal Terms to Humans. When he is on his way to LV-223 he has had time to Study Dr Shaws works, and he takes a great interest in meeting our MAKERS.. David then discovers these beings are NOT GODS and they are MORTAL after all
David is no doubt intrigued about the revelations about his own Creators, Makers (aka Engineers) i also think he has a interest in the whole Creation/Creator Philosophy and knowing that he is Superior to his Creator and then that his Creators Creator is also just a Humanoid and all that separates them really is Knowledge and Technology which David now has some fundamental knowledge about. David discovering he can use their Technology and Knowledge and that HE can-not be infected by the Outbreak that killed Mankinds so called makers, then this leaves us wondering what Davids Agenda could be.
So we can see from the Get Go, Davids possible Agenda and Goals he could achieve are far more than what Dr Shaw merely wants.
They are at a STALE-MATE without Dr Shaw, David would remain in TWO Halves, he would be incapacitated he would perform no other function than to be left stranded all alone... he is No Longer Free he is a Prisoner on that Crashed Juggernaught. We have to ask how long can David Function before his Battery or Systems Fail... and we simply had no idea how long this would be.
We have Dr Shaw, who is also Stranded on that Forsaken Rock, she has only limited Life-Support on the Life-Boat but she has to take the risk of going back to this Vessel and ponder what becomes of the Trillobite she Gave Birth too, and the Engineer and even if they are assumed DEAD... Dr Shaw has only limited Life Support that she would have to PRAY another Ship arrives within 2 years... But as the question was proposed... who would return first? Humans? or Engineers?
So David and Dr Shaw NEED each other, without either they are Marooned on LV-223 until someone else arrives or until their systems/life support runs out/fails. This leaves a Interesting Dynamic as far as a game of Chess/Trust... Dr Shaw would surely know that IF she puts David back together he would be Dangerous but the only Alternative is to be stranded on LV-223.
The END of Prometheus shows us that some kind of deal must have been made, and that Dr Shaw and David did leave LV-223.
THIS IS WHEN WE ARRIVE AT THE CROSSING..
The Draft One and Actual One we got, both set up a slightly different conclusion to the last day/hours before the Juggernaught Departed LV-223.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
The reason I repeatedly bring up BR2049 is because it is challenging what is existence.
Believes in a divine God mythos which is paternalistic and beyond any understanding.
Is a mechanical construct but one that has sentient feelings from the moment he is activated if we accept the PW/D8 opening.
Who are ... Engineers in others they construct life out if mechanistic rituals which have been gifted to them.
What a thoroughly fantastic way to go beyond 2001 (creation, catalysts, humans and robots) and explore these themes in more detail.
Shaw - has the potential for horror of horrors to realise that there is a mechanical element to creation, which she is not capable if and yet has been shown the mutagen can allow her to birth. Would she not like Adam and Eve be tempted to eat the apple.
David - Healed by the woman whose partner he destroyed would he not be affected by such compassion and come to realise that existence is more than nuts and bolts.
Wow there are so many ways this could have gone. Paradise Lost is that like Elizabeth they are barren and it is a dying world the gifts of creation having been withdrawn because of their fall on LV223.
So D & E reach a dying world (that feels a lot and looks a lot like BR2049) and interact with a handful of Engineers who reveal the true horror of their fall and their corruption of the catalyser.
Shaw the reformist and David the curious can go in all sorts of directions.
I don't know, but there sources also say that even the earliest script had pretty much the same story, but Shaw would be killed at a different time. As if the were ashamed of her, of the Engineers and were Lindelof was going. Was he blamed that Prometheus was not successful enough? if so maybe he is vindicated...
What you say is interesting for some of us, but apparently not for those involved.
What i still wonder, if in 2014/2015 this was already an alien movie, why was Blomkamp advocating his Alien movie? Of course no one would greenlight 2 alien movies at the same time.
I agree with you that Bladerunner 2049 is a very good movie with the same atmosphere as the original Bladerunner (neo-noir). The genre might be called sci-fi drama (with lots of action as well)? The movie wouldn’t attract people who prefer (kitchen sink) realism, but otherwise, both women and men, as well as intellectuals and more plain action seekers, would be sufficiently satisfied? But still, it wasn’t a great success economically (worse than AC) and the original BR wasn’t either.
We have roughly the same questions in BR49 as in Prometheus/AC and (apart from religious and philosophical reflexions about our place in the universe, about life and death, creation etc) the main focus has come to be AI (synthetics/replicants - David/K) and questions about a soul, free will etc and about moral/ethical questions. As I see it, they are focused very much on the development of the main character (although David technically speaking is the antagonist he has in a way become the protagonist. There isn’t so much of character development in either Shaw nor Daniels, is there?)? K develops from bad to good whereas David goes the other way?
In both films, we have the love drama between humans and synthetics/AI (with implanted memories) - K/Joi and David/Shaw. But as I see it, in BR49 you have many characters around the main characters who serve different purposes: good/bad, helping/obstructing, sacrifice/victims, funny/irritating and if we compare this to a sequel with only David and Shaw (and an antagonist probably in the form of engineers) there would be no supporting characters filling up different needs in order to make a dynamic, exciting movie? There are, of course, interesting, good movies/books with (almost) only one character like “Robinson Crusoe” and “Castaway” (although in the latter you also get to follow the main character’s wife struggling with her life and his disappearance).
So, could a sequel to Prometheus which served as a continuation of the relationship between David and Shaw which could develop either into love or hate (or both), Shaw seeking the answers to her religious questions and David seeking himself, become interesting? Well, of course it could, but would it give the production company its money back? Probably not?
I don't know if BR49 is more of a failure than AC, as Covenant had brand recognition (with the first 2 being global successes) and the original Blade Runner was a cult classic. Sure it was insane to spend 150 mil but it did make 15 mil more than Covenant world-wide with 20 mil made less in China. It is Villeneueve's highest grossing film today worldwide (making 55 mil more than Arrival), earned 2 Oscars and critical and public acclaim.
Covenant received mixed critical (slightly less then Prometheus), worse public reception and made less money then it''s predecessor, even thou it had Alien in it's title and was clearly marketed as a prequel.
All in all, I don't know how a direct continuation of Prometheus would have went down but it is clear that money was more important than making something interesting/new.
Yes, there is a big difference between getting critical acclaim and earning a lot of money. Star Wars didn't get particularly good criticism for example.
David and Shaw “solving a riddle together” (life/creation/the universe and our place in it), focusing on the dynamic between them and the development of character (Beauty and the Beast) in an engineer setting would be very interesting indeed! But, it would be more of sci-fi drama than sci-fi horror? So again we have the question of target groups?
Also, David probably isn’t interested in Shaw’s riddles? He has already met his creator - and is disappointed (just as Shaw ought to be after the meeting with an engineer)? Would David change through Shaw’s compassion? That would, of course, be an interesting dilemma and tension throughout this kind of film (Beauty and the Beast)?
2001 was a great movie and I agree with you that making David the creator of “denture features” “has backfired” and that the outbreak on LV-223 was quite sufficient and a “respectable beginning for penis head”. :)
Would Shaw (not being able to create children) be tempted to accomplish this with the help of the mutagen? Well, she wasn’t particularly fond of it the first time, was she (the trilobite)? :)
The idea that the engineer world is a barren one because of their “fall” would imply that their makers have punished them? Who are they and have they, in turn, someone who has created them in infinite regression?
Finally, the idea of following Shaw in the prequels to Alien would be appealingly symmetrical to following Ripley in the sequels? :)
To answer your various questions.
The supporting caste in BR2049 operate in an entirely different way to AC they are their to support one theme K's journey. We know a young actor was considered for Prom 2 and there were multiple David's. I believe like "Contact' and Ellie's father and 2010 and the messages from the machine more characters could be introduced to mediate on behalf of the Engineers and Hierarchy.
I also think if you go to the Engineers Homeworld and find out there story you finally need to meet one used sparingly it would have been the epicentre of the movie rather like the Doctor in BR2049.
Is the film action horror et etc no thats the whole point of Prometheus is to steer away from ALIEN.
The irony is Prom did much better than A.C.
Finally we should remember Prometheus was not intended to start a series of prequels but inhabit the same universe and go off tangentially.
But don’t you think that the ending of Prometheus, where David and Shaw set off in the juggernaut “still searching”, was intended to perhaps continue the saga (if Prometheus was successful enough)? After having decided to make a sequel, it would have been interesting to know what the idea had been from the beginning. We don’t know what Harper and Green had in mind for us in the original scripts. Perhaps the idea from the beginning was to continue where Prometheus ended and we were supposed to follow the adventures of David and Shaw but then the fans’ reaction made them turn to a more alien-like movie and the story of David and Shaw had to be cut?
I think there is a real problem with genre and expectations. Alien was, in fact, a B horror and gore movie which had been turned into an A horror and gore movie (Scott). The problem with Prometheus was that many fans expected the same kind of movie as Alien. But Prometheus is more of sci-fi drama rather than horror and gore. As we have discussed many times before Fox and Scott then turned back to an Alien horror and gore movie and lots of action to satisfy both the fans of Alien and the fans of Aliens.
Contact is very good, by the way. John Hurt experiences a different kind of contact in Alien. :)
I watched Prometheus for the first time last night since Covenant was released. Three things were lost in the transition rather than the two obvious ones :-
1) Shaws indomitable survivor role.
2) The Engineers as anything other than fodder.
3) David's wonderfully enigmatic relationship with Shaw. There was real narrative momentum in this rather than reduce him to a deux ex machina for the creation of the ALIEN. What makes David interesting is his relative place in the creation story which could have been played into the Engineers and their place in the creation mythos. IF life is born out of a mechanical construct then the reaction of Shaw and David would have been of profound interest from their relative positions as believer and robot and could have lead to all sorts of impact on how they react and ro each other..
I think Harpers Changes certainly could appear to be more closer to the earlier Logan Alien Paradise Lost Draft....
What about Paglen and Green? We dont know really..
RS appeared to be wanting to take us further away from Alien, and to actually follow a Arc of Dr Shaw and David, a Dynamic between them both, as they need each other.... and as RS said... Once Davids Head goes back on he can be Dangerous... but he is very Persuasive
He claimed that THEY (David/Shaw) would be going to the Planet of the Engineers, where they find these beings... who are NOT Gods, not in the traditional sense, and are not Benevolent... However... David is bringing HELL with him. (Black Goo). And what happens when that infects GOD or a MACHINE
Quite Ambiguous BUT interesting..
Does this mean they Meet these beings?
How do they find out they are not Benevolent?
When/Why does David unleash Hell? what is the result?
GOD/MACHINE... are these beings Bio-Mechanical? or does David infect a Synthetic or Evolve himself?
So many questions those RS statements raised.
Other things he raised, was that he DID-NOT want to meet God in the first movie... hence so those Prometheus Engineers are not GODS but maybe we will discover who is above them, their Hierarchy, and what kind is that... separate Race? or just Elders of their kind? RS comment was in reference to the edited Sacrificial Scene (Elders).
He then has mentioned over and over the Engineers are Fallen Angels... Engineers as in LV-223? Sacrificial Engineers? Elders? and Fallen as in Malevolent Race or a Race who has Rebelled against their Brethren or Creators?
Again interesting Questions..
Then it all went Quiet...... But then Ridley Scott mentioned Paradise Lost connection... then it went Quiet again...
Roll on after Summer 2015 and RS mentions Paradise Lost, he mentions stuff like the Fallen Angels, he mentions if the Engineers are the Forerunners to Mankind, then what made worlds habitable for the Engineers to Seed Life.... Where is the BIG GUY (GOD)
He then goes further by saying you have One Guy who is Handsome, goes to all the Parties gets all the Girls, and another Guy who is not as Handsome stays at home being boring...
And he mentions that in Paradise Lost it was the Fallen Angels who had all the Fun...
We can only Ponder on all of this, in relation to Alien Covenant and ponder what the above comments seemed to hint as far as what Prometheus 2 may have been.
I did have the Source from Febuary 2015, many months prior to RS mentioning about the Engineers Forerunners, where is the Big Guy... and the Source gave some vague details about a lot of elements to Paglen/Green Pandemonium Plot... a lot of this does add up to Alien Covenant especially earlier drafts and concepts not used.
Until we see any earlier 2013-2014 drafts by Paglen and Green then i can not confirm if any of the Source was correct at all.
The Picture they painted seemed very interesting and more in line with what RS was saying prior to the announcement of Alien Covenant, The Problem is until we see any Paglen Draft or Greens then there is no way to confirm any of it..
Despite describing a lot that we see in Alien Covenant especially as far as the unused concepts... (Dr Shaw) etc.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017