Indeed these are interesting, it appears each one could maybe depict a different Engineer.
Why my theory is that Planet 4 Plaza was a place that these Engineers have a selected Chosen Few who represent the Perfection of their Species... these are Chosen for Sacrifice, so there DNA can Seed/Evolve Worlds.
This Ritual is of a Great Importance and Honor for them, they get to be IMMORTALIZED in their DNA passing onto New Worlds and also then get a Statue Erected in their Honor/Memory
I propose the Juggernauts are just a Evolution to the Seeding Ritual, where they now Sacrifice the Engineers to then collect the DNA into the Urns and use the Juggernauts to Seed Worlds from the Air, as opposed to dropping off a lone Engineer.
Seeding Worlds via Juggernauts, and using maybe a few or more Engineers DNA would give more coverage and greater diversity of DNA.
This is why i feel those Engineers were not in FEAR of the returning Ship, because this signals a great time for their kind in the hope that more will be Chosen.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Yep, the Elders choose someone perfect for sacrifice, then send a ship and crew off to the far reaches to seed a perfect world, then the crew of that ship is celebrated upon their return, as Ridley said in commentary of AC that there was a welcoming process occurring as 2 million Engineers gathered at the plaza welcoming the ship's arrival.
I can only imagine some Engineer waking up every morning at 5 am to do push-ups an jogging around the city, then going to the gym like crazy. And after many years of training, an Elder walks up to him, places the arm on his shoulder and says "Heroic son, you have been selected for great sacrifice that will start a new life!"
And that Engineer thinks to himself; "So I exercised many bloody years for this? Well, I better be greeted by virgins when I arrive in heaven. And build me a very nice statue of myself."
Early concept art for David's lab had the skinned engineer positioned as Augustus of Prima Porta, and he was placed in the middle of the table.
Other concept art with statues on pillars
Great catch Dark Nebula.
The statues comparison is phenomenal. The statue with the arms down is similar to the statue of Tiberius, below.
I went back over shots I had already enhanced and it's tough to get a good focus on the statues due to obscurity from darkness, distance, etc...see below.
Wayne Haag Alien: Concept Art
The statues are very far off in the above shot but I had to include it to show how (concept) the larger ship seemed to rise out of the middle of the plaza where the juggernauts were stored.
That is a great theory BigDave. Each statue could represent a sacrificial Engineer. That would fit with the immortalizing a Caesar with a statue in concept but with each statue representing a world opposed to a reign.
I see the sacrificial Engineers in the same way and yes, those on Planet 4, were very welcoming to the juggernaut operated by David.
@Ingeniero Thank you for the images, that statue does resemble the statue of Tiberius.
Great insights everyone! It makes me wonder if the Engineers were more involved in humans' history than just maybe seeding their planet. It could give strength to the idea that an Engineer was crucified by people and was why the Engineers got bent towards us.
The Engineers did come to earth to check on their creations and update them, that's why the Engineer city on planet 4 is Roman/Greekesque with lots of statues and temples. The theory that Jesus was an Engineer was a part of Jon Spaiht's draft for Prometheus but Ridley thought it was too much under the nose so they moved away from it thankfully.
" It could give strength to the idea that an Engineer was crucified by people and was why the Engineers got bent towards us."
Certainly if Sacrifice is very Important to the Engineers in regards to GIVING Life..... then they could view Unnecessary Sacrifice as far as Crucifixion as being something very Blasphemous to their Culture and Ideology.
The whole SPACE JESUS comment, was explained as this Person being a Emissary sent down to put us on the right track as far as teach us to go back to the ways that APPEASED the Engineers and did not OFFEND them.... and we well Executed the Emissary
I think the Emissary Idea is very plausible because it can be used to explain some inconsistencies regarding the Star Maps as far as those after the 2000 years ago Date. If we go back 2000 years ago, there are many Cultures around the World who lived more Ritualistic and Simple Lives, Cultures who had not CHANGED their ways even hundreds of years after.
Cultures that had NO Contact, or little Contact with Mankinds Cultures from the Middle Eastern/Eurasia areas. Cultures whos Religions are nothing really like the Abrahamic Faiths that rose up a few thousands of years ago.
If we look at the simply life many Tribal Secluded Cultures live by, and look at the Moral Values of these people and compare them to Ancient Cultures from Thousands of years ago, they are similar.
If we look at Modern Man even at the Roman Times, never mind today then we can see our ways, in how we act, dress, treat each other and how we value Life and Animals and the Environment is totally different to how the secluded Tribes who live today pretty much no different than thousands of years ago..
If you was some Godlike Creators of Mankind you would certainly deem the ways of Modern Man to be against what you may have stood for, and yet the secluded Tribes, may live in ways that appease you.
So its LIKELY that the Engineers sent down MORE than ONE Emissary, and so many had been Crucified/Killed by the Evolving Cultures on Earth. While the Emissaries who had been sent to watch over the more Ancient Simple Tribal Peoples, could still teach the ways of the Engineers and Star Maps made after 2000 years ago.
This would explain the Recent Star Maps like the Mayan (620AD) and the Hawaiian (680AD).
These Cultures at this time, had not been corrupted by the ways of Mankind that inhabited the Middle Eastern/European areas. So these Cultures may not have killed their Emissaries
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
It appears that the first image is the statue of skinned St. Bartholomew, by Marco d'Agrate, 1562.
This image shows the Scale of those Statues... and its shame as i dont recall seeing these used in any shots from Alien Covenant.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
To bad however in reality all ancient statues were painted as for example Augustus here (not very engineer like):
The writers/director seem not to give a s**t about history, as clearly shown in the Gladiator (which is more or less a fantasy a mish-mash of preconceived popular notions and modern ideals). And let's not confuse Renaissance statues (David, St whomever) with ancient ones in this context, as it can be said for sure engineers did not visit earth than. (And people from the Renaissance had Scott or Logan levels of interest in the historical accuracy about there claims of the ancient world).
And why don't the engineers have any paint on there walls? Only to be "creepy",? But the human maps to LV-223 painted on the walls? was painting a human innovation (very unlikely)? For me the lack of paintings make the look of the city of Planet 4 as if was abandoned for millennia not lived in.
And BigDave why would the most corrupt "civilization" (the Romans) on Earth, who killed the Engineer emissary, look the most like the city on Planet 4? You know your way of life and beliefs reflect in how you build, one can make a comparison between the Amish and the Catholics to see what I mean.
And for Sir Scott, I will skip your Battle of Britain movie as it will once again be fantasy as you never care about historical accuracy. (Well at least the overrated Nolan fared much better in that department).
I am not sure EVERY Statue from Ancient Times were Painted, i am sure many would have been but also many Statues are not painted.
The Engineers did Paint the Frescos, and i would say they had Arts unless we Assume David invented all the Writing/Drawing Materials.. I think we never really got to see inside any of the Engineer City Buildings apart from the Cathedral and so its hard to say how colorful or artistic the interiors of most of the buildings would have been.
The franchise has ignored some Actual History but its a Sci-Fi its not supposed to be Real and so has freedom to have things loosely based on Historical Events... I agree some better Research and Connections would have helped.. Prometheus set up a Franchise that could have touched on the Ancient Mankind/Visitation aspect but Alien Covenant chose to ignore this.
"again be fantasy as you never care about historical accuracy"
My ideas are at the Point of a Broad Concepts, that i would next need to Flesh Out, and Research a bit more to change things and add things. So its just a basic Concept for Continuation. Where i am in the Process of what Historical and Philosophical and Mythos/Religious themes can i apply and how to apply them and which to leave out.
Again its not going to be a case of having to Exactly Match Events/Fables told by certain Ancient Works.. not by going a Literal Like for Like Route..... Such as i think RS had ideas to explore some of Paradise Lost but not to give a movie Franchise that would be Literally a Exact Copy of John Miltons work
The Franchise has hit a Snag with the Prequels Routes and Especially Alien Covenant, it is like the Writers have Ran out of and came up with some ideas that are flawed...
But we cant exactly go back prior to Prometheus and then Re-boot the whole Prequels to make the Space Jockey a Alien Race not connected to Mankind or our Ancient Past/Creation... In Hindsight they should have explored something more ALIEN and maybe had Xenomorph Organisms and Origins Explained better in the First Prequel
Its a case of Damage Limitation now for them... i was trying to think of how to take the Ball they Dropped and Carry on with something that does not contradict what routes/plans had appeared to be laid down, by the Prequels...
A Alternative would be to drop David, and concentrate on the Xenomorph but its how do we continue with THIS?
You could end up with a Movie that works like a Cross Between ALIEN and that Movie PANDORUM i actually had a idea about this before i ever even heard of Pandorum, where David experiments on Colonists on one area of the Ship before he loses control... this part of the Ship Becomes a Hive that is Quarantined, and the other Colonist in another section of the Ship Awaken just prior to Origae-6 and go to explore the Sectioned Off Quarantined Hive and discover the Hell that this Ship has became and breaking the Quarantined Area they allow the Xenomorphs to Rub Free...
This kind of Flick would be very much a Pandorum meets Alien but only with many more Xenomorphs and so would be a Hadleys Hope on a Space Station kind of Fanboys Flick.
The other Option would be a Aftermath Movie of the Colony setting up on Origae-6 and then finding out about David and the Xenomorph being unleashed and we ARRIVE as a Handful of Survivors are trying to keep themselves Quarantined from the Xenomorphs just as a Weyland Ship arrives...
Again this would give us a ALIENS Re-run kind of Flick... and so its a case of HOW do you carry on from Alien Covenant... include David but try and change some of the flaws and introduce Humans into the Mix... without giving us a Hadleys Hope in Space or on Origae-6 AKA just like ALIENS kind of Flick?
Sadly this is the kind of Corner they have Written themselves into.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"And for Sir Scott, I will skip your Battle of Britain"
Oh i see you meant Ridley Scotts plans ;)
I think my reply does show how HARD it is to continue now, they have set down a course and painting/wrote themselves into a Corner, where carrying on this route is something i feel will Alienate (Pun Intended) a lot of the Franchise Fans further... The Emphasis on David and now as the Creator is something i feel has indeed Split a lot of Fans and Turned a lot off the plans RS has for the Franchise.
"You know your way of life and beliefs reflect in how you build, one can make a comparison between the Amish and the Catholics to see what I mean"
Certainly a Good Point.... Planet 4 does have a lot of Roman Influences and Greek too, and following the Ancient Aliens Plot... we maybe have to assume either the Engineers Influenced the Ancient Architecture of Ancient Greece and Rome... or Vice Versa.
The Amish vs Catholics is a interesting point... TWO different ways/cultures to worship and follow essentially the same Doctrine, i think looking at the Planet 4 Engineers we could interpret this Civilization who have witnessed Corruption and have attempted to maybe Change their WAYS and chosen to maybe abandon some of the Rituals and Culture their Race had in the long distance past.. to SHUN it all and Live a more Simplistic Life.
Part of the Alien Covenant Plot was hinting that the Covenant Mission was a attempt at a Fresh Start to Leave the Rotting Paradise that was once Earth, now Polluted and Corrupted by Mankind over the Centuries.
My idea for Alien Ascension was to take this FRESH start, by having the Colony Set up but have some Rules/Boundaries and Principles so they Do-Not Fall down the same Path that Mankind had on Earth and so kind of YES a Escaping a Catholic Capitalist kind of World to start a more Simple and Secluded New World like the Amish.
The Problem is with this route the movie kind of drifts away from ALIEN too much as in the Xenomorph, Engineer Race and Connection.. But Alas Alien Covenant Started this Path... where alternatives are hard... apart from the ALIENS on-board the Covenant or ALIENS on Origae-6 Outpost kind of Flick...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Well, we can't be sure 100% that all statues were painted, but i guess they would not have been considered finished otherwise. And this the case for the whole Mediterranean region in antiquity.
I have noticed no Engineer paintings, only those drawn by David
And was still stuck me in a bad manner, is that why have a giant domed building (the cathedral or how is it called) yet in it there are small rooms and corridors, with the biggest one (the one with the heads) being way too small to occupy all the space below the dome. Am I missing something? Was there a huge room not shown?
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