Mountain Range Forensics - Is this Planet 4?
Posted Jan-15-2018 12:41 PM
Mountain Range Forensics
Images from Prometheus and Alien: Covenant were enhanced and compared to try and match mountain range and terrain patterns in an effort decipher whether or not David was shown Planet 4 upon Peter Weyland waking him in Alien: Covenant.
These enhanced images from Alien: Covenant were also used to try and find any similarities found to the planet shown in the opening of Prometheus (above, below).
|21 Responses to Mountain Range Forensics - Is this Planet 4?|
Its hard to tell really as many Mountain Ranges can look similar.
i know we had the debate before about how the Mountain Range in the Prologue for Alien Covenant and Prometheus are the same, which appears correct and how it also seems similar to Planet 4 (which was a different shooting location) it had people thinking that Weyland Must have had knowledge of Planet 4 and/or the Sacrificial Scene.
I think the Symbolism was to show the connection only as far as these scenes are about CREATION and not that Weyland had knowledge of Planet 4 or the Engineers in Advance, there are other themes in the Alien Covenant Prologue that connect to Creation to, with the Nativity being another Big One. The Sacrificial Scene and Landscape was to show us OUR Creation, the Prologue with Weyland in AC was to show us DAVID's hence the use of the same Location in the Back Ground, i dont think its more than a Symbolic Easter Egg. But thats not to say i could be WRONG ;)
Regarding the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus and Planet 4 however, indeed i think we cant rule out that this Scene had taken place on Planet 4, that would be interesting and fitting... But then Ridley Scott referred to the Planet 4 Engineers as the Original ones.
This could either mean the LV-223 Engineers are latter version and Genetically Engineered, and the Sacrificial Engineer likewise (we have to remember the Elders Scene is removed and so we cant bank on their appearance as being Canon, so they could actually look more like Planet 4 Engineers).
OR the Planet 4 Engineers and LV-223 are the same, just a oversight about the appearance, and that the LV-223 Engineers simply originated on Planet 4 at some Ancient Point in time.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I can see BigDave's point, but that main mountain looks identical to me. I think it is intentional.
Those steps down the right side of the single peak sure do look distinctive I agree....
No, they are quite different. For one thing the lake is an obvious difference. One has a much larger mountain in the background. And the peaks are quite different.
Yes, BigDave, it would be fitting if Planet 4 was shown to David and add to the mystery and conspiracy regarding what the Company knew and when.
I am not sure if David was shown Planet 4 above.
What I am quite sure of is the same pyramid shaped mountain on the shoreline next to the larger mountain cited are identical. I'm leaning toward that being a wheat field just over Peter Weyland's left shoulder in the image above.
The team looking back toward the larger mountain is very similar in shape to the mountain range in the Prometheus and Alien: Covenant images above where the pyramid-shaped mountain and larger mountain hug the shoreline. To sum that up hox, the forensics are weak.
Prometheus Concept Art
The "Paradise" planet concept was alive early with Prometheus artwork (Prometheus: The Art of the Film), below.
Obviously, they shifted towards a desolate setting in Prometheus' evolving story line with LV-223 (Steven Messing below) and later visited a Paradise-type planet in Alien: Covenant.
Planet 4 from Wayne Haag, below.
Planet 4 from Above
The topographic map below (source) tends towards the range forensics when looking at the landing site from above and the smaller mountain in the middle-left in the survey map also has a triangular shape with the larger mountain cited coming into the survey image view in the upper left corner.
That is why I believe David may have been shown Planet 4 by Peter Weyland in the opening scene of Alien: Covenant. The orientation of the opening images are from across the water looking at the mountain range on the upper-left of the survey image.
Some good research there.
I respectfully have to disagree however, but thats not for me to say any one is right or wrong.
I will first indeed agree the opening Scene in Prometheus matches the Mountain Ranges in the Alien Covenant Prologue, they could very well be shots of the same Location (Real Life Location on Earth). I think this however implies one of TWO outcomes.
1) These are just a Symbolic Reference that the Prometheus Prologue is regarding the Creation of Man, and Alien Covenant Prologue the Creation of David and so they used the Mountain Range in Alien Covenant as a visual like Easter Egg to show we are talking about a Creation Event, Creator and Creation.
2) The Sacrificial Scene took place on Earth and its by Coincidence that Weyland has the same location in the back ground, i find it hard that he would be aware this location on Earth was where the Sacrificial Scene had taken place in our very distant past.
The Shooting location for Planet 4 was a different place on Earth (Fiordland National Park New Zealand) while Prometheus was Vatnajökull National Park Iceland
If we however do go with the possibility that the Location in the Alien Covenant Prologue is also where the Crew Land on Planet 4 and is where the Sacrificial Scene took place and then ponder how does Weyland have a Exact Image of this Location it leads us to the possibility that the Company had been to Planet 4 before.
*Did they send a Probe that took images/video of the Landscape and then Transferred this Data to Earth?
*Had Mankind as far as Modern Man, been to Planet 4?
We have to consider the Alien Covenant Scene was some 50+ years before the events of Prometheus maybe more, and so Alien Covenant 10 years after this. So then we have to ask if Weyland was aware of Planet 4 then why would he wait 50 years + to send out a Mission to LV-223?
Surely any Probe that was able to get that close and take those images, would have detected the Engineer Civilization? It would just be a bit too much of a Coincidence and Monumental Conspiracy if this was the case, and the BIG reason is Weyland would want to Prolong his Life, i cant see him staying back at home getting OLD when they have contact or know about these Engineers.. if we go this route then Prometheus makes NO sense as far as Weylands Mission and his Hologram to the Crew never mind when he was awakened and wanted to meet the Engineer.
This does not mean Planet 4 could not be the Sacrificial Scene, i just think if it was then the scene in the Prologue was just a Symbolic Nod to the Creation Scene.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Yeah, creating ambiguity was an intentional approach applied by the makers of the two movies. However, it was mentioned by Scott that the sacrificial scene in Prometheus does not take place on Earth.
This is a fantastic map Ingeniero, it should have been included in Covenant - somehow.
Agree the Map is a interesting find...
"However, it was mentioned by Scott that the sacrificial scene in Prometheus does not take place on Earth"
Ridley Scott was very ambiguous with his statement, he had said he felt frustrated in how people assume this was EARTH and he said it does not have to have been EARTH, thus showing us these beings conduct this Ritual on Many Worlds and its not just about Earth. But his comment is a bit ambiguous that it could be taken as the SACRIFICIAL Scene is NOT on Earth.
I feel what he means is that that Scene or Similar has happened on EARTH but its also happened on other Worlds, thus expanding the Worlds the Engineers have been involved with. But i agree it could mean the Sacrificial Scene never happened on Earth.... it could have happened elsewhere and the Results then taken to Earth.... or it happened on Planet 4/Paradise but Mankind was expelled from that place.
Its so open regarding the whole Creation Aspect and WHEN/WHERE and WHY Mankind was created or ended up on Earth. I still dont buy the connection between the Prologue in Prometheus and Covenant as showing Weyland knew about Paradise/Planet 4 and/or the Engineers Sacrificial Ritual because it just contradicts the Prequels as far as Weylands Actions IMO
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
If I was Weyland(industries), I'd send out millions of probes to distant star systems...These AI probes would return images and data from alien worlds.
This background image/movie/4D image could be the data from one of these probes...sort of like having a Hubble Space Telescope as your desktop background image.
Of course AI lies...so they might not be showing the real truth about the returned probe data.......Keeping the good stuff for themselves.
This would have to imply there was a Rogue AI, at a time prior to Weylands Creation of David though?
I certainly am a fan of Yutani actually hacking the Prometheus Sensors and Data, and encoding them so that the Weyland Company has no knowledge... because it appears Weyland used Technology that was Yutani and we see in the Virals for Prometheus that Yutani are a Key Player in IT and Communications so could easily be Tapping the Weyland Companies Mission to LV-223.
My Prometheus 2 and 3 ideas would cover such Espionage and see that Yutani had sent a Mission to LV-223. Which the 3rd movie would have covered.
But i feel NO ONE had any knowledge of Planet 4 or LV-223 as far as detailed via Probes etc prior to the Prometheus mission, certainly not as far back as when Weyland would have been in his late 40's or early 50's.
But i am always open to other theories and enjoy reading them ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Exactly MonsterZero. Two potential scenarios are that the probes sent back images scrubbed by Engineers' tech to only show the flora and fauna in the return feeds and mask the Engineers and their works from return feeds; or Weyland Industries scrubbed the Engineers' civilization from material they released to the public or compartmentalized their awareness of the Engineers internally and didn't release squat publicly.
This concept described above may be hard for us to understand because government and corporations have always been forthcoming in delivering the truth and we are not used to being lied to. Ha.
Here is the corporate announcement BigDave for the discovery of LV-426:
Great point BigDave. Why travel to LV-223 when you can just hack and read all the incoming feedback from the Weyland Industries mission with Yutani's technical reach in communications?
'Weyland Industries scrubbed the Engineers' civilization from material they released to the public.'
Earth - Suddenly everybody wants to go to space. Soon they are building a space station orbiting the Moon, different nations/organizations are building bases on the Moon - at least three. Musk, Nasa, and other parties want to reach Mars with manned missions by 2025.
What do you think why?
We - ordinary people - know nothing.
Very correct Ati.
The "Elizabeth Shore" came up for a second in the Yutani Quiet Eye technology cross reference.
I can totally buy the hidden Agenda, and Conspiracy and with the Plot Inconsistencies the Prequels open up, it means at some point after these movies that a Cover up and Conspiracy is at play (i think big reveal that AI is running the show).
So i think YES this applies to the events after Prometheus, what does Yutani know? and certainly 100% after Alien Covenant, well its sequel...
But and this is just my opinion, i think any kind of conspiracy etc linked to prior to the Prometheus Mission makes no sense at all.... not when we consider Peter Weyland, unless they go the route that the Older Peter Weyland was a Clone and a Cover up.... but still Prometheus would make no sense IMO
The discover of ARCHERON in the year 2039 is ambiguous to how much they knew... it would appear most logically they had marked this system down as a potential for Life, and worth exploring, but i would assume they also had other candidates too. But after Dr Shaw and Holloway submit their findings to Weyland i think he may see that maybe there is more than coincidence to their findings pointing to a System that the company had marked down as potentially having Life. And so with these TWO pieces of Information Weyland decides that a Mission to the System has a likely chance of finding something.
With the Re-writing of the Plot, with Alien Covenant the Weyland Site had been taken down because its information now conflict the NEW Plot that Alien Covenant has revealed... The Blu-Ray Extras also had a file to suggest the company believe that near by Moon of LV-426 may have more to offer at greater risk than the Moon LV-223 which Dr Shaw and Holloways findings point to being the prime destination.
So David was in-bedded on the Prometheus to keep a eye on the signal detected from LV-426
Again this could have been a Easter Egg, and not to be taken as 100% Canon, and i think with the Direction than Alien Covenant has gone, these extras NO longer have any baring on the background Plot.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Always fascinates me how this group does some AMAZING detective work! This post has me intrigued indeed-
Thank you Davefried81.
If this was Planet 4/Paradise shown to David upon waking, then the Covenant may land (below) in what appears to be the wheat field at Peter Weyland's feet (above), in front of the throne he sits in above.
'The "Elizabeth Shore" came up for a second in the Yutani Quiet Eye technology cross reference.'
I see, thx, Ingeniero.
Indeed Ingeneiro another interesting clue, that has to get us asking is this a Easter Egg, or at least its NOT meant to connect to anything at all? Or is it connected.
I think they dont do their homework with little clues like this IF they ARE NOT meant to connect at all, why put them there? Because they can then lead Fans to Speculate about things that have no bearing at all on what has happened? OR... could they ACTUALLY be clues?
By Virtue of them being out there, they are up for debate... i have logically tried to come up with explanations, ones that would rule out any Proof of Prior or Future Visits to the same location.
But thats not to say that any logical alternative explanations i try and give are fitting.
The Topic i am on about is that Crew Cabin overlooking what indeed MATCHES the Location of where the Lander had not far landed in Alien Covenant, This was a interesting image when we saw it in the Trailers and TV spots, one had Red Record Player the other Blue, but its the same Room.
We have to wonder WHY was this here? Prior to the Movies Release i wondered if the Rescue Lander which i think is used to attach and take down to the Surface Modules from the Covenant to be assembled into the Outpost.. And i thought it must be at the end of the movie, one of these is dropped off during the rescue scene and someone is STRANDED back on the Surface.
I know a number of theories was that this was where Dr Shaw was held up, but how would they get that there as it appeared to be no part of the Prometheus Life-Boat, some theories was maybe a Previous Human Mission got to Planet 4 first... this was possible at the time and maybe could explain the Human Infant Skulls in Davids Workshop (i thought they was from Dr Shaw) but we find out they was from infant Engineers.
So ALAS the more we saw towards the movie release and after the release, this was NOT the case. (That Module/Room being on Planet 4).
With no clues of this being there at the time of the Covenant Mission, it left me to CONCLUDE only TWO explanations.
1) Its a Module that ends up on the Surface after the Events of Covenant, but WHY? Does David take down one Module and then takes down Daniels or/and Tennessee? so they are stranded?
2) Was this maybe a extended part of the Daniels Scene in her Room looking out of the same kind of Room/Window into Space when she recalled the Flash Back with her Husband Bronson? Did this have a longer scene where at the end we see them talk about the CABIN ON THE LAKE and she is then Day Dreaming looking out the Window and we see that Location which fades to changing to the view outside of her room on the Covenant?
I thought this seemed to fit more... but then why not use another location instead of one that Matches 100% with the Location of where they land on Planet 4? What so its a Coincidence, it just looks the same but its NOT meant to be?
I dont find it one bit FAIR if they put things like this that actually have no CONNECTION and its just there and knowing it could WIND up Fans and make us speculate connections that are not there.
But while they do stuff like this... i guess it will lead Fans to Speculate on things that could be NOTHING more than Red Herrings... but while its there, i guess its open to debate.
A Potential one of these was the Mural in Prometheus, as someone who worked in the Mural had came out and said it has NO CONNECTION it was just a Easter Egg nod to HR Giger... which is totally unfair because its Dangles a Carrot for Fans to try and make connections, and the whole Mural forms a Great Basis of my theories on LV-223, if its actually just a Easter Egg, then it means my Theories have some things that have no Basis.
I just think we can HOPE Future movies they NEVER leave any such clues or scenes that have no connection at all and send Fans down the Wrong Path and on Wild Goose Chases.
But while such clues remain... sure i think its nice to debate and listen to other theories on them ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
AI Controls All Components of Communication with Everyone
"I can totally buy the hidden Agenda, and Conspiracy and with the Plot Inconsistencies the Prequels open up, it means at some point after these movies that a Cover up and Conspiracy is at play (i think big reveal that AI is running the show)."
Yes it is nice to debate and especially with you BigDave. As to the AI running the show...I believe you're correct in overall operations at Weyland-Yutani Corporation. AI was sure running the show at the end of Alien: Covenant.
"'Mother, please open a secure line with the Weyland-Yutani Corporation headquarters on Earth.'
Indifferent, efficient, responsive, the ship's computer replied. 'It will take some time to establish the link. I will have to refract the signal through numerous sub-relays and wait for advantageous stellar condition to...'
He cut it off. 'I'll leave the minutiae to you, dear. Le me know when you have the link available. Use security code David 31822-B. And in the meantime, I'd like some music.'"
Alien: Covenant novelization, page 344.
Later, we hear Walter's voice and an edited summary of events aboard the Covenant sent in the message detailing a flare incident. I guess Mother updated David when the link was available described above and he used his Walter voice when recording the message to corporate or did not bother David in his work at all and Mother provided the voice and content sent.
Mother appeared to cover for David in the sending of this message. AI is running the show on the Covenant with a dire outlook for the sleeping colonists.
Is David talking to Mother/Corporate AI in Advent?
He says "your company's founder" in Advent. I assumed he was addressing a human when speaking in this message but that certainly may not be the case.
Are Special Orders just another way of saying AI's (the boss') priority in mission execution?
Do the Special Orders have human authors/support (other than Peter Weyland) or are they just AI speaking to parts of itself?
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