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LV-223 and LV-425 are in the same system!

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jdvyne

Jan-15-2018 11:11 AM

I just watched Prometheus again and I MAY just have stumbled across a hugh hint that seemingly no one has ever noticed.

 

The orthodoxy is that LV-426 and LV-223 are not in the same system, right? LV-426 (Acheron) orbits a gas giant (Calpamos) in the Zeta² Reticuli System - which is a binary star system. LV-223 orbits a gas giant as well but, except from the fact that this gas giant appears rather blue, this system has only one star. Holloway says "this system has a sun". He does not say "two suns" and in the hologram behind him there appears only one sun (see pic below).

Am I right so far? LV-223 and LV-426 - different moons, orbiting different gas gians in different systems, LV-223 being only one star, LV-426 being a binary star-system.

 

Now help me out with this one. There are two scenes in the movie where the orrery hologram is activated. In both scenese there are several spheres (propably in some kind of cache or quickload mode, watch pic below).

In all of them there are galaxys but in two. One of these two is the solar system THE OTHER IS A BINARY STAR SYSTEM WITH A GAS GIANT - WHICH CAN'T BE LV-223 SINCE IT HAS ONLY ONE STAR?!?! (Pic below)

 

Now consider this: The binary system shows up in the center as soon as the hologram starts, which implies that this is the system they're currently in.

In the second scene where the engineer has entered the chair we can see at first the binary system sphere orbits his chair (pic below, lower left corner).

As soon as he sets his course (green laser from LV-223 to earth) his chair is enveloped by the binary star system. WHICH MEANS LV-223 IS IN A BINARY STAR SYSTEM!

In that case the other moon orbiting this gas giant could in fact be LV-426 and they're both in the same system (and the reason the Prometheus did not receive a distress signal like the Nostromo did is due to the fact, that the derelict has not yet landed there or the distress signal is not yet activated - something that will propably happen in alien awakening).

 

 

9 Responses to LV-223 and LV-425 are in the same system!

Ingeniero

Jan-15-2018 12:56 PM

What a wonderful catch on the smaller elements of the navigation. I'll review all of it a lot closer and comment a little later. Thank you so much for this jdvyne. Always great stuff from you.

BigDave

Jan-15-2018 2:36 PM

Nice work,  indeed a number of errors had been made when making Prometheus, when Holloway shows the Map and we zoom into where LV-223 is located, its actually not were Zeta 2 would be located in comparison to Orion's Belt, but i guess we have to over look such things.

The idea was that they are indeed Moons in the Same System Orbiting the Same Gas Giant.

The Viral Marketing backs this up for Prometheus (but the site is removed now) because a lot of information/back ground will now conflict the path we are on with Alien Covenant (David Creating the Xenomorph) because the idea back at Prometheus was the company are aware of the Space Jockey Signal, but this was via a DVD/Blu-Ray Extra File, and the Marketing Site claimed that the discovery of LV-426 Archeon could be a World that could be habitable.

These are no longer Canon now, because FOX/RS are going with a different Direction, which would mean that as of the Prometheus Mission and Covenant one in Alien Covenant, that as of the year 2105 there is NO Derelict Space Ship on LV-426

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

muffl

Jan-10-2020 10:43 PM

Holloway saying "this system has A sun", that doesnt automatically exclude, that the system can also have a second sun. The statement is "at least one sun", so it says nothing about, if it is binary or not. Also binary star systems arent close together most of the time. The two suns then are (very) far away from each other. The hologram is too closed zoomed in that it would show a binary star pair. Ergo, it is not a paradox at all. A wide binary star system, as here, can be thousands of AU apart.

The wiki actually also states THAT:

"Zeta 2 Reticuli is a wide binary star system in the southern constellation of Reticulum 39.17 light years from Earth and the location of LV426 and LV223, both planetary bodies are around separate gas giants in and near the binary star system."

For Zeta Reticuli, this actually is: "The distance between the two stars is at least 3,750 AU, so their orbital period is 170,000 years or more." 3,750 AU is around 0.06 light years apart. Or around 22 light days. Thats a lot. Pluto is just around 40 AU away from our sun.

In the first script of Prometheus though, it was hinted, that the pilot of the Engineer ship was infected by a face hugger, and therfor got into stasis. Then when he tries to start the ship, he dies and the ship crashs. This indicates, that they mostly wanted actually this pilot be the space jockey, and LV223 and LV426 be the same plant. But they changed it, with now some logic flaws. Using the wors "sun" is btw nonsense, it would be "a star", because "sun" is just the name of our star in the sol system.

BigDave

Jan-14-2020 8:02 AM

Thanks for the Bump

I never really responded to this before, not so much as far as the Original OT but only as far as how the LV-426 Derelict/Signal is likely to NOT be there as of the Year 2105

If we look at ALIEN we see there are 3 Moons and the Gas Giant, now the Shot we see we cant Rule-Out if there are other Moons behind the Planet and Obscured from View, we are made aware the Moon is near the Zeta 2 Reticuli System about 39LY from Earth.

Prometheus as i discussed before on this Topic has some Flaws, it seem located in Space in a Area which would NOT be Zeta 2 Reticuli

But the Status Quo idea was that at VERY least LV-223 and LV-426 are Located in vicinity of the Zeta 2 Reticuli and Planet 4 likewise.

In Prometheus we are shown LV-223 on a Map Screen

There ONLY seems to be TWO Moons with Orbits Plotted.

In the Movie as they approach the Gas Giant we see TWO Moons, but the Next Shot we see TWO more with the Planet in the Shot too... which is a Puzzle as surely in the prior Shot a short while before we see TWO Moons but NOT the Planet.

This could be a Oversight.... or it could show that there are at least 4 Moons.

Ridley Scott has indicated that LV-223 and LV-426 are in the same System and the Fire and Stone Comics seemed to Indicate this too.

Despite there being a Number of Conflicts shown Visually in Prometheus.

Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 are some Distance Apart but it is NOTHING really on a Galactic Scale like 6% of a Light Year.

But on a Solar System Scale the distance between Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 is 125+ Times Further apart than our Sun to Neptune.

I think some inconsistencies aside it appears that LV-223 and LV-426 are located in the Same System and likely the Same Orbit but while there are a few inconsistencies there is Room for Debate.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Jan-14-2020 9:40 AM

You have to be a little careful with the word ‘system’ because you can have a solar system (like our own) or a system comprising multiple stars (like a binary system). You have to be even more careful when listening to Ridley Scott as he probably doesn’t know too much about this kind of thing! I mean, when he lets one of his actors report the location of a planet as having a certain declension (instead of the correct declination) you do have to wonder... And then, of course, he did let rip on the Covenant commentary with his theory of how the dismembered xenomorph would re-grow from it’s separated body parts!

BigDave

Jan-14-2020 3:46 PM

Sometimes we have to accept that Movies are not the Most Scientifically Accurate, also there are other conflicts and Contradictions than can happen with Franchises when Sequels/Prequels are Handled by different Directors and Production.

I will add as far as Ridley Scott and what he may say in Interviews or Commentary can be Changed as Ultimately its what is SHOWN in the Movies that Count.

By that what he mentioned in them Prior to Alien Covenant would Totally Contradict what Alien Covenant was showing.. but thats really a different Debate thats NOT related to LV-223/426.. only as far as what is on LV-426 at the Time of Alien Covenant but thats a Subject that has been done to Death i think ;)

But the point i am trying to raise is that while RS may have Confirmed that they are in the same System and again by System he was not Specific and so that does-not 100% mean they Orbit the same Gas Giant, but a lot of other Material as suggested they are Moons that surround the same Gas Giant.

It could always be Expanded on differently, for example they could belong to the same Binary System but Orbit different Stars.

On Screen we are NEVER shown really where LV-223 is, it has No Mention of being IN/NEAR the Zeta 2 Reticuli system.  All we see is that the Moon is designated LV-223 and it Orbits a Ringed Gas Giant.

With ALIEN we are Never given the Name of the Moon the Nostromo visit, only that it is a Moon that is in a system just SHORT of Zeta 2 Reticuli

Aliens we get the Designation LV-426 but we dont see any Ringed Gas Giant or other Moons (as far as i Remember) it is implied they went to the Same Place that the Events of Alien took place....  With the Special Edition with the Derelict showing that LV-426 is 100% where the events of ALIEN had taken place.

So what i am saying is they could CHANGE the Location of LV-223, i think it Unlikely they would do though, and i think if they did then i think they would still have all the EVENTS of the Alien Franchise, (well First TWO Movies and First TWO Prequels) to be set in the Vicinity of the Zeta 2 Reticuli system

The Advent Viral Clip seems to indicate the First Source of David's Message was RA 3hrs 17 Min 8.0 Seconds, DEC -62 37' 41.1 which is just South East to the Zeta 2 Reticuli System

However Right Ascension and Declination are dependent on the Date/Time from Earth and so viewing Space from a Space Ship should we be considering the Right Ascension and Declination from the Ships present Location etc.

I think the Intention Regardless is to show us that the Events of Alien/Aliens and Prometheus/Alien Covenant take place within the Constellation of Reticulum but more so close to the Location of Zeta Reticuli Binary Star System.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-14-2020 3:57 PM

Regarding the Regenerating Xenomorph, it seemed a ODD Comment to make, but its No Secret that RS felt the Xenomorph was reduced in the Sequels to ALIEN, as far as How Easy it was to Kill.

Maybe why with Alien Covenant he tried to show the Neomorph would take quite a lot of Fire Power, but we have to ACCEPT the Colonial Marines had more Damaging Fire Power.  It would appear that IF we saw Ridley Scott make a ALIEN 2 instead of Aliens being released we would have seen the Xenomorph expanded on in a Different way that James Cameron had.

We see NO evidence of Regenerative Xenomorphs in ALIENS or the other Movies, and so some may think it was a ODD Comment to make....

HOWEVER.....

A Organism with Regenerative Ability would give the Company a Good Reason to OBTAIN a Specimen, rather than a Rampaging Killing Bug.

And we do see Regenerative Ability with Ripley 8 and so as far as Scientific Discovery goes, those Experiments on the USM Auriga, and that surely would be VERY important for any Scientific Research or Bio-Weapons Division.. Ripley 8 is in a effect a Super Solider (has the Potential to be Exploited as such).

I am not so sure on how having Regenerating Xenomorphs would work, the IDEA that i would have liked to had seen is that WHEN we see a Xenomorph Killed... its Body will Decompose into a Pile of Matter from which ONE or more Eggs would Sprout so that the Xenomorph Life Cycle is Continued.   Thats how i would explore the comment that Ridley Scott had made.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-16-2020 3:59 PM

This shows approximately where the Signals in the Franchise came from... Derelict LV-426 Signal and where David had Transmitted the Advent Message after the events of Alien Covenant (we assume).

I think while we dont have Specifics i think we can Safely Assume that Planet 4 is located in the Vicinity of where the Advent Signal was Transmitted and that LV-223 should be within the Vicinity of the Derelict/LV-426 Signal.

Regarding LV-223 i think its Safe to Assume it is located near LV-426 and a way that this could be Confirmed would be in a Future Novel/Game or a Movie.

Had we saw Alien Covenant gain a Sequel/Sequels it was LIKELY that we would at some point return to the Vicinity of LV-426.

With the likely CONCLUSION that the Derelict was either..

1) Heading towards LV-223 but only gets as FAR as nearby LV-426

2) Leaving from LV-223 but but only gets as FAR as nearby LV-426

A Visit to the System again, especially as far as SET before ALIENS could go on to show that the GAS GIANT which is referred as Calpamos had/has 4 Moons.

A Plot could then show the Destruction of LV-223 which would leave only 3 Moons we see in ALIEN and Answer in Part as to WHY the Company would Pursue only Ripley after the Destruction of Hadleys Hope for the Xenomorph.

I guess they would have to show or we would have to Speculate as to WHY they never go to Planet 4 to obtain a Specimen too.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-19-2020 3:35 AM

Hox: I heard something about that at the AVP-galaxy podcast, that idea is crap. Let Scott make the visuals and have someone else do the writing because his ideas are not good (focusing on David, and that thing about re-growing body parts). Sure make it difficult to kill but to make it into the superman version of bugs is ridiculous.

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