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Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

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The Third Moon's Relationship To The Xenomorph?

The Third Moon's Relationship To The Xenomorph?

Gavin

Admin

429

Posted Jan-03-2018 2:07 AM

Calpamos is a gas giant in the Zeta II Reticuli binary star system. Orbiting Calpamos are three small moons, Acheron LV-426, LV-223 and another that remains thus far unnamed. LV-426, a primordial moon, is known to be the resting place of a derelict Juggernaut together with a cache of thousands of Ovomorphs (Xenomorph Eggs). LV-223, a temperate moon, is the site of an array of deserted facilities of Engineer origin, and the wreckage remains of the USCSS Prometheus and an Engineer Juggernaut. The third, unnamed moon remains a mystery, though there is high probability it will likely house some Engineer facility related to both the Black Pathogen bioweapon found on LV-223 and the hordes of Ovomorphs located on LV-426.

In both Prometheus and Alien: Covenant David used Dr. Elizabeth Shaw's reproductive organs, both inadvertently and directly to realize the genetic code hidden within the Black Pathogen - the Xenomorph. The trilobite organism Shaw removed from her womb was a forebearer of the Facehuggers gestating within the Ovomorphs David later cultivated from her ovaries. As such one would imagine that Trilobites and Ovomorphs would have also resulted had the Engineers experimented in the same way on the females of their race. The cache of thousands of Ovomorphs on Acheron LV-426 would suggest that such experiments have indeed taken place prior to the death of the pilot of the derelict Juggernaut, and prior to the events that claimed the lives of all but one of the Engineers stationed on LV-223, approximately 2000 years ago.

When comparing the mural found in the ampule room on LV-223 with H. R. Giger's art an unforeseen possibility presents itself. Rather than just showing the life cycle of the Deacon, and by extension the Xenomorph, the mural could also be showing the source of the Xenomorph eggs. Many of Giger's artworks feature women in a similarly bound position, usually portraying the act of consummation. You will notice a macabre parallel between these paintings and the mural, with the central figure's abdomen, opened, with mirrored fetal figures separating it and the depictions of Xenomorph parasites implanting hosts with their embryos. The mural could also be depicting an Engineer females body being used to create Ovomorphs.

This is what I believe may be on the third moon of Calpamos, a vast facility reminiscent of Giger's paintings in which chosen female Engineers are sacrificed, their bodies used the creation of Ovomorphs using samples of the Black pathogen cultivated on LV-223. It could be that the derelict Juggernaut on LV-426 was transported said Ovomorphs from this third moon when it was forced to land, its pilot having fallen foul to its cargo. Although it is possible the pilot of the derelict may have visited LV-223 beforehand. It is known that around the same time that the derelicts pilot died on LV-426, the Engineers stationed on LV-223 suffered an "outbreak". It is presumed this outbreak was the Black Pathogen, but there is actually no evidence to support this as the ampules containing the deadly substance remained undisturbed until Dr. Shaw and her team breached the chamber in which they were stored. All but one of the Engineers died from "Burster" like wounds, which suggests that rather than an outbreak of the Black Pathogen, one or more Xenomorphs were responsible for their deaths, and with no evidence of any female Engineers on LV-223 it is highly unlikely that a Xenomorph was formed from exposure to the Black Pathogen. With the derelict being the only known source of Xenomorphs in the immediate vicinity of LV-223, this would suggest that the outbreak came from the derelict Juggernaut and that its pilot was responsible.

This would mean that the pilot of the derelict Juggernaut on Acheron LV-426 was aware of the plans of the Engineers stationed on LV-223 to use the Black Pathogen on Earth, and that he used his cargo of Ovomorphs to stop them, putting themselves at risk doing so, before being forced to land on LV-426 and recording their last message, warning any and all away from the three moons. This would fit in with Ridley Scott's comments in the commentary for the 2003 directors cut of Alien, in which he states his belief that the pilot of the derelict Juggernaut was benevolent.

47 Responses to The Third Moon's Relationship To The Xenomorph?

Andrew1975

Jan-03-2018 3:30 AM

Hallo Gavin,

my comment refers to the first paragraph of your post.

It is a widespread error to assume that LV 223 and LV 426 are moons orbiting a planet (a gas giant named Calpamos) in the Zeta Reticuli star system.

According to Wikipedia, Zeta Reticuli is a binary star system/double star without planets. As of today, no planets orbiting the two stars of Zeta Reticuli have been discovered. Zeta Reticuli is close enough to earth to be visible with the naked eye from the southern hemisphere in very dark skies.

In "Prometheus" it is never explicitly stated or shown that Zeta Reticuli is the destination of the mission. During the briefing Holloway shows an unnamed star system that consists of a single sun orbited by several planets. This cannot be Zeta Reticuli.

LV 223 and LV 426 are not in the same star system, they don't orbit the same planet. LV 426 is located "just short of Zeta 2 Reticuli" (according to Lambert in "Alien"). LV 223, the destination of the "Prometheus" mission, must be located somewhere else.

If LV 223 and LV 426 were close to one another, if they were moons orbiting the same planet then it would be strange that LV 426 is chosen for colonization in the middle of the 22nd century while LV 223 remains uncolonized. LV 426 has no atmosphere, hence the need for an atmosphere processing station ("Aliens"). LV 223 has an atmosphere and even primitive organic life ("Prometheus"). It is therefore more suitable for colonization. Furthermore, it would be stranger still that LV 426 is colonized while neighboring moons remain unexplored. We can safely assume that all planets, planetoids and moons of a given star system are carefully explored (with technical means or even by human expeditions) before one of them is chosen for colonization. If LV 223 were located in the vicinity of LV 426, it would be explored at the same time as LV 426, and the abandoned installation of the engineers and maybe even the remains of the "Prometheus" would most probably be discovered. But at the time of "Aliens" (2179) mankind has no knowledge of engineers and xenomorphs. Ripley's report about both is met with incredulity during the hearing in "Aliens". When she mentions a "derelict spacecraft" nobody is astonished and bothers to ask questions. The members of the commission seem to think that Ripley is talking nonsense. This means that LV 223 and LV 426 are not close to one another and that after the disappearance of the "Nostromo" mankind has had no further encounters with engineers (living or dead) and xenomorphs, at least no encounters that became common knowledge. The colonists on LV 426 didn't even discover the engineer spacecraft themselves although at the time of "Aliens" they had been living on the moon for over 20 years.

Critters5

Jan-03-2018 5:16 AM

Andrews, LV426 was picked for colonization because the Company knew the derelict ship with the parasite eggs were there. 

Gavin

Jan-03-2018 5:32 AM

@ Andrew1975,

The information in the OP is sourced from Xenopedia. Most fans and especially general audiences believe the two moons, LV-426 and LV-223 to be orbiting Calpamos due to their distance from earth both being 39 light years away, and both containing evidence of the Engineers/Xenomorphs. Prometheus didn't prove or disprove this belief. Being a work of fiction, the writers didn't bother to check whether Zeta II Reticuli had a Gas giant with three orbiting moons.

As for your comments regards the colonization of LV-426 - Colonists not discovering the derelict is never addressed, so make up your own mind. Why LV-426 and not LV-223 - reason #1, The company wanted specimens of the Xenomorphs; the colonists were never meant to survive. The exec's on the board either didn't know about SO-937, or were pretending to not know. Reason #2 LV-223 hadn't been imagined yet.

Like Mark Hamill said, "its just a movie".

hox

Jan-03-2018 5:51 AM

Andrew, LV-426 does have an atmosphere, just not a breathable one. Look at the clouds in the picture you posted.

Andrew1975

Jan-03-2018 6:13 AM

@ Critter5

Please forgive me for being so outspoken but your comment doesn't make sense. At the time of "Aliens" (2179) the colonists have been living on LV 426 for more than 20 years. This is mentioned during Ripley's hearing at the beginning of "Aliens". The colonists didn't discover the derelict spacecraft by themselves. They found it only after Burke sent them an order to check some coordinates. You seem to think that the Company colonized LV 426 hoping that the colonists would be infected by the parasites. If such a plan existed, why didn't the Company do anything to bring about an infection immediately or soon after colonization? Besides, the colony is hugely expensive, a multi-billion dollar investment. Do you really think that Weyland Yutani would spend so much money and then wait for years and even decades, hoping that the colonists will someday somehow stumble upon the derelict spacecraft?

Andrew1975

Jan-03-2018 6:39 AM

@ Gavin

Since Zeta II Reticuli is a real star system, not a fictitious one, the authors of "Prometheus" should have bothered to check whether the system has planets or not. 

As to your remark "The company wanted specimens of the Xenomorphs; the colonists were never meant to survive" I refer to the reply I have given above to the comment of Critter5. The assumption that Weyland Yutani established the colony on LV 426 with a sinister purpose is pure speculation.

All my thoughts and observations are strictly based on information provided in the movies. I disregard all information that is provided elsewhere. 

Critters5

Jan-03-2018 7:55 AM

Andrews, I believe it was clearly inferred that the colonization of Lv-426 was so provide hosts to the Aliens which was the company's biggest interest. That's why Burke gave them the coordinates. 20 years was needed to bring in enough hosts. Infestructure was needed so that the hosts had a place to live and a reason to move their and the installation costs are likely nothing for the company. 

Critters5

Jan-03-2018 7:56 AM

Gavin, agreed. 

Gavin

Jan-03-2018 8:37 AM

@Andrew1975,

Zeta II Reticuli was probably chosen because of its popularity among UFO fanatics. It being a real system only adds to the movies effect. Just because A movie has connections to something in reality, doesn't necessarilly mean they are duty bound to relate as such accurately. Texas Chainsaw Massacre claims to be "based on a true story", when in reality it is inspired by the evidence of cannibalism found at US serial killer Ed Gein's home. The Fourth Kind claims the same, even stating that Mila Jovovich is portraying a real psychologist, yet two seconds on Google reveals the "psychologist" is just another actress and the movie is based on testimony from alleged alien abductees. 

As I mentioned in my reply, no reason was given why the colonists did not find the derelict or why the company did not make them. so lets us in-movie evidence to come up with an answer - in Alien it is said that LV-426 is tiny with a rotation of two hours. As the Nostromo land's it does so on the dark side of the moon. When the sun comes up the storm abates, suggesting that the storm covers the dark side of the moon, but because the moon rotates this storm traverse the moon every night. Kinda the opposite to what happens on Crematoria in the Chronicles of Riddick. Until such storms are controlled by the atmosphere processor it is likely that they seriously impaired any movement on LV-426's surface.

Hadley's Hope was a billion dollar venture. But in 2179 what is 1 billion relatively. In Victorian England £100 was considered a small fortune, during WWII it was considered a sizeable amount of monies, today it is virtually small change.

BigDave

Jan-03-2018 9:56 AM

This little old Gem is always a good Topic, the connection between those Worlds and the Xenomorph, a interesting one with clues in Prometheus, but alas with the Change of Direction in AC, things may have to be looked differently... a shame because RS originally had worked out the Space Jockey Story he just felt it did not need Spoon Feeding.

@Andrew1975

You raise some good points, but if we consider the Marketing for Prometheus then its hinted the LV-426 and LV-223 are located in the vicinity of Zeta 2 System, its a Binary one so one World/Moon could Orbit one Star while the other Orbits its Twin.   A Problem does arise from not being 100% Scientific Fact and with some flaws... so far indeed we have not detected any Gas Giants in that System but this is Science Fiction.

There are flaws though, Holoways Star Map zooms into a Area of Space where Zeta 2 in respects to the Orion's Belt would not be located.  But then a 2 hour Rotation of LV-426 would not be able to support any Colonization Period.   These are all Flaws, that should be considered a Oversight.

You do raise a extremely Valid Point regarding LV-223, this place is more suitable than LV-426 for any Colonization attempts, so it can lead us to wonder why bother with LV-426, which we could maybe think what if they are different systems, but even so in terms of Space Travel in the Alien Universe even if LV-426 and LV-223 DO-NOT orbit the same Planet, they would still be located fairly close as far as scouting out a ideal world to set up a Colony.

The information Prometheus expanded with the system, would have us asking this Question, as to why in the year 2137 set up a Colony on LV-426 when LV-223 is more viable....  well we have to HOPE maybe this In-continuity gets covered because surely there would be a explanation to why LV-223 is not considered a option certainly by the year 2137, likewise LV-223 would have to be explained away as far as why in Alien 3 and Alien R do the companies Pursue Ripley for the Xenomorph, when LV-223 has many more riches.

Regarding LV-426 and the Derelict, it leads me indeed to think most of the company including Burke had no idea of the Derelict until after Ripley mentioned the events of the Nostromos Mission.  We cant rule out the company having knowledge, because the Prequels open this up... and so between David and his Experiments and what remains on LV-223, Planet 4 and Origae-6 at the time of Alien 2122 to the year of Hadleys Hope in 2137, surely we have to ask WHY is the Derelict the only thing to explore regarding Special Order 937 and then would the company wait 20 years to then Sacrifice the Colonist?

Sounds very sinister..... but not if we get the reveal that Mankind has become Sheep to AI, and like in the Matrix the Machines are running the Show, and Mankind are oblivious to their sinister motives

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Critters5

Jan-03-2018 9:57 AM

Gavin, exactly! 

BigDave

Jan-03-2018 10:11 AM

Now i dont know how to tackle the OT, because well its a interesting and ambiguous one, well certainly was prior to Alien Covenant and GAVIN you raise some good points...  first regarding the Moons, if we assume LV-223 and LV-426 do indeed Orbit the same Planet, then the 3rd moon i think logically would be LV-121 or LV-629 but thats not a Guarantee. 

Its interesting to maybe imply this other Moon in the scheme of things.... we simply dont know what the connection is with the Engineers and Black Goo and Mural, i think Alien Engineers gives more clues, and when we see the Mural, and Frescos it could be possible those Engineers encountered a Parasitic Organism that they experimented on LV-223 with, which means we could speculate if this is the case, maybe they discovered this Parasite on the other Moon, then set up a Outpost on a near by Moon to experiment on this Parasite.   I think one flaw with this is the Star Maps, because they dated back 35'000 years or so ago, and so do we assume they had been experimenting with the Parasite and Creating the Deacon and Black Goo that long ago, yet still came to Earth to interact with us?

Unless it was all part of a Plan in the Scheme of Things, and so over 30'000 years prior to the Outbreak those Engineers had planed to create/use the Bio-Weapon on us, just for some reason they had to wait thousands of years?  I think this is flawed, but as its ambiguous we just cant rule anything out.

Some good points with Dr Shaw, and i feel Prometheus was showing us via the Deacon via the Trilobite, that a set of events could lead to a Face Hugger Type Organism, that leads to a Xenomorph Type. The clues was there for us, so that they never had to Spoon Feed the Xenomorph Origins...  it was done in a way that could lead to similar events in the past lead to the Xenomorph (or similar) or indeed another infection of the Parasitic Black Goo, or indeed the Hammerpedes... all of these could be the answer to the Xenomorph...   it was ambiguous, but this all changed with Alien Covenant.

I had explored many a theory regarding the Mural etc, to me i wondered if those Engineers could not Procreate or had lost this ability or had it taken from them, then coming into contact with a Parasite that then would allow them to GIVE BIRTH to Life, could be seen in high regard for these beings and maybe why they would make a Mural to it, and further  experiment with it... I think from the clues in Prometheus they encountered or was punished with the beast in the Fresco and began to experiment on this to create the Deacon, and then they Sacrificed it like the Sacrificial Engineer and the broken down DNA Stored in those Urns... These Engineers saw the Deacon as more Perfect than themselves and saw its DNA as being the better DNA to Evolve Worlds than their own DNA.. this is how i interpreted it all... which Jon Spaights Alien Engineers gives us the clues to exactly this.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-03-2018 10:27 AM

I had pondered the importance of Females, made a Topic a long time ago on this, because the Engineer seemed very intrigued with Dr Shaw... (in the Full Scenes), and if these are Fallen Angels, we have many stories about the Sons of GOD (Angels) and Daughters of Man (Females) and the Children Born to them (Giants) and so i wondered could Females be playing a Large Role?

Did these beings Evolve themselves past Procreation, but while they Engineered themselves to Live Longer, they are not IMMORTAL, and so maybe the Sacrificial Route was a way to obtain Females to Breed with? But AC had latter showed us these Engineers had Females, well those Planet 4 ones did, and so i pondered, was they the result and reason for our seeding? Are they Hybrids...  This was prior to seeing Alien Covenant.

Indeed months after AC, we see TWO Concepts by both Wayne Haagg and Steve Messing, of the Temple/Cathedral Dome

 

Was there a reason that by Coincidence TWO separate Concept Artist have Females on the Doors, and the entrance we see Humanoids?  One piece who look more Greek/Roman the other Sumerian?  These dont look Engineers at all..... and while the Cathedral does not look like this in the Movie, we have to wonder at some point WHY Haagg and Messing designed the concepts this way?

So yes i think we can speculate Females are required to play a role in the Creation of Xenomorph Type Organisms, Davids experiments had been carried out on Female Engineers, but he found that Dr Shaw provided to be more suitable for the progress of his Creations.

If the Source i had in Feb 2015 was correct, then indeed prior to AC the plans was still similar, as they claimed HUMANS played a Bigger role in the Creation of the Xenomorph than the Engineers, and also that Dr Shaw plays a Small but IMPORTANT Role and is incapacitated for the most part.  And that David creates one of the TWO monsters the movie would feature, by Create he would Re-Create it, and all you needed was the Tools and Knowledge and he had both.  The source also said in context to Paradise Lost, without SIN (i assume Satans Daughter) there would be NO Xenomorph, now Sin is mostly incapacitated as she is constantly in labor and birthing the Hounds of Hell that Guard the Gates to Hell.  They also described a Female being connected to a Bio-Mechanical Device.   The Source was loose and vague so they did not directly Spoon Feed, but looking at it all and indeed those Concepts leaked from 2014 and the earlier ones by Matt Hatton they add up to what the Source said and Dr Shaws Fate is still similar to what was planned back in 2014

This does not mean we cant discredit any theories in this Topic, but indeed i think FEMALES play a Pivotal Role in the Xenomorph.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-03-2018 10:38 AM

I think the Benevolent Space Jockey remark is interesting as indeed RS did say this, but since Prometheus he refers to the Engineers as Fallen Angels, and not being Benevolent, even saying in the lead up to working on P2 that they will find beings, but these beings are far from Benevolent.

Maybe the Space Jockey is thus a Angel and not Fallen? But then maybe his action is Benevolent to his own species, or maybe could be benevolent to all.

RS did explain the Space Jockey Event in quite some Detail.

*The Derelict and Juggernaught and Engineers and Space Jockey are brothers.

*Those Ships are Bio-Weapon Carriers/Transporters/Bombers

*The Derelict was off to a undisclosed destination, but it did not get far.

*The Derelict did not crash, it had intended to land on LV-426 to Quarantine its Cargo

*The Pilot got infected by his Cargo, something had Evolved in the Cargo Hold.

*The Event had occurred within a few hundred years of the Outbreak on LV-223

Its such a shame things have been changed now, as these showed us that the Derelict Event happened either a few hundred years prior to the LV-223 Outbreak thus those Experiments likely had taken place on the Cargo of the Derelict.  Or the event happened hundreds of years after the Outbreak which would mean the Eggs are a result of something Evolving from the Outbreak.

Even though AC had set up David creates the Xenomorph, we still cant rule out him only Evolving/Re-Creating it, this can still be changed as it seems to be the BIGGEST Criticism of Alien Covenant

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ati

Jan-03-2018 11:20 AM

And what about the fourth moon?

/Prometheus concept art by Steve Messing/

LV-223, LV-426... AND TWO MORE MOONS:

http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/43275

Ati

Jan-03-2018 11:30 AM

Movie image from Alien, the three (four?) relatively big planetoid moons are outside the ring, no doubt:

Prometheus, arrival scene, two 'big' moons in the distance, LV-223 and LV-426?, probably yes, we don't know, there is no ring, there is no the planet itself, their positions are unknown, the ring and the gas planet (Calpamos) are out of sight:

BUT!

We have this Prometheus movie image where the ship can be seen very close to the gas giant, it flies 'under' the ring, there's a small moon in the distance on the left (no info about it), AND THERE'S A SMALL MOON 'OVER' THE RING WHICH IS VERY CLOSE TO THE PLANET (inside the ring on the right). I think it can't be one of the relatively big moons because it must have looked much bigger so close to the gas giant:

I think it can be claimed that there is a mysterious small moon inside the planet ring.

Look at this image from Prometheus, it shows the planet and its moons, so LV-223 (and LV-426?) is outside the ring, no doubt:

Andrew1975

Jan-03-2018 11:46 AM

@ Critters5

I suggest you rewatch "Aliens", especially the hearing at the beginning of the movie. Burke did indeed communicate the coordinates of the derelict spacecraft to the colonists. BUT: He didn't possess these coordinates prior to Ripley's return. He obtained them from the flight recorder of Ripley's rescue shuttle. The chairman of the commission mentions that the flight recorder was analyzed. The data confirmed some elements of Ripley's report - that the "Nostromo" set down on LV 426.

I'm afraid you are seriously mistaken if you think "that the colonization of LV 426 was to provide hosts to the Aliens which was the company's biggest interest". LV 426 was clearly not colonized in order to provide hosts for the xenomorph. There is nothing in "Aliens" to support such a view. Two things have always puzzled me: In "Aliens" no explanation is given as to why such a barren, desolate and inhospitable moon like LV 426 was actually colonized. And it is never explained why the colonists didn't discover the derelict spacecraft by themselves (in over 20 years!). Surely the moon was surveyed and mapped prior to or after colonization. Such a huge metallic object like the juggernaut should not have gone undetected.  

Gavin

Jan-03-2018 12:05 PM

@ Ati

Strangely you answer your own query, the concept art by Messing is exactly that, whereas the scene you then show from ALien, shows Calpamos and three moons. Yes, Prometheus scenes and hologram only shows two moons, but that's not to say the other moon isn't there. It may be closer to the rings as you suggest, or even on the other side of the planet and maybe at that point in time undetected by Weyland Corp.

@ Andrew1975,

Did the USCSS Prometheus map LV-223 before entering the atmosphere, Did the Nostromo before it set down on LV-426. While common sense would suggest such a practice would be mandatory, this is the world of the movies, in which dumb arse characters make dumb arse decisions to further the plot of the movie.

In Aliens, it is shown that the colonists had studied the Facehuggers and removed them from hosts. This would likely have happened shortly after the Jordens encounter at the derelict, and as such, it is likely that they messaged Gateway Station, Burke and/or Weyland-Yutani to tell them of this occurrence, yet Burke and the marines mentioned nothing. The Colony was also fitted with CCTV, thus it is also likely that the footage of the Xenomorphs subjugating the colony would have been transmitted back to W-Y, but again no mention of this from Burke or Gorman.

Because no reason was given for why the colonists didn't discover the derelict I infer that the violent storms preventing them from doing so, and that these storms were artificially generated (much like the silica storm in Prometheus) by Engineer tech. This is not THE answer, but its the best one I've got.

ignorantGuy

Jan-03-2018 12:20 PM

Andrew1975

The Aliens thing... well indeed judging only by the movies this situation with LV426 is incoherent. In Alien, the Company knew about the Xenomorph, yet it only establishes a colony after decades from the events from the first movie if they wanted to test the weapon on humans? Even if there was no surveying done, where did the distress signal (intercepted in the original) disappear? It might be only a plot convenience and the fact the scenarios were written by different people.

BigDave

Is that supposed to be Shaw in the first picture (woman silhouette, Prometheus suit)? Why is the temple dilapidated, were the engineers supposed to be dead for many years at one point? Who were supposed the bearded guys be? And what are they holding? Sacrificial black goo?

Andrew1975

Jan-03-2018 12:47 PM

@ Gavin

When Burke and Gorman visit Ripley they do so because communication with LV 426 has broken down. No messages, no transmissions. The fighting between colonists and xenomorphs must have damaged the communication system fairly quickly, before a message or a distress signal could be sent.

@ red0guy

Some years ago I read somewhere that the script for "Alien" contained a scene that was not filmed: After entering the derelict spacecraft, Dallas, Kane and Lambert find the device emitting the signal which the "Nostromo" received. They turn it of, thereby ending the transmission. It's a pity this scene was not filmed.

By the way: How long does it take for the "Sulaco" to reach LV 426? In "Alien" Lambert calculates that the "Nostromo" will cover the distance between LV 426 and earth in ten months. The "Sulaco" must travel much, much faster, otherwise a rescue mission wouldn't make sense, would it?

ignorantGuy

Jan-03-2018 1:03 PM

Andrew1975

And why send so few people on the Sulaco when it can hold hundreds (http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Sulaco), were was the ships crew? Who was the commander... 

Regarding the device in context of the prequels, was it human or Engineer? In which language did it emit?

Ati

Jan-03-2018 1:07 PM

In Alien Isolation it is shown who turned off the machine in question:

In 2137, 15 years after the Nostromo set down on LV-426, the Anesidora found the Nostromo's flight recorder, detected the same beacon, and subsequently landed on the moon to investigate and salvage anything of value. The crew discovered the derelict ship and equipment left behind by the Nostromo personnel. While exploring the derelict, Henry Marlow, the captain of the Anesidora, used a tracking device to locate the beacon and disable it, preventing any other salvage vessels from discovering the ship.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Beacon_(LV-426)

Gavin

Jan-03-2018 2:17 PM

@ Ati, The Alien isolation thing was little more than an easter egg for us the fans who knew of the unfilmed scene from the script. Cameron himself also offered that the volcanic eruption that damaged one of the derelict Juggernauts arms (IRL - damage sustained by the owner of the original model) also shut off the beacon.

@ Andrew1975,

Before Russ Jorden gave birth to his chestburster, it is highly likely he was rushed back to the colony with attempts to remove the Facehugger. No doubt Al Simpson, exec in charge of the colony communicated this to Burke or Weyland-Yutani being as it was the co-ordinates they sent that resulted in Russ' predicament, but in the three weeks it took for them (Burke/W-Y) to respond, by then the colony was likely being overrun, with the colonists barricading the doors. As such, Burke/W-Y would have known that the xenomorph mentioned in Ripleys testimony had been found, and IF communications with the colony was lost weeks later, the cause was highly likely a Xenomorph infestation. I say IF, because when the Dropship circles the colony they see no sigs of external damage, and Bishop later uses the communications array to remote pilot the second Dropship from the Sulaco.

As for your BTW: Hicks states they would have to wait 17 days for rescue. 3 weeks for a Network response suggest 1-1.5 weeks transmission time - that's 7-10 days for the Sulaco to signal the all clear. If a second marine vessel was prepped ready for rescue if no all clear is received, then that 7-10 days flight time. As for the compliment of the Sulaco - why send the greenest marines they could? answer - they didn't expect them to come back. Their fate was to be the same as the colonists and hopefully Burke and Ripley. The Patna was likely sent after the Suaco to gather specimens.

The commander of the USS Sulaco was Lt. Gorman.

The beacon was sent by the pilot of the derelict in Engineer "Indo-European" using the derelict Juggernaut.

ignorantGuy

Jan-03-2018 2:46 PM

Gavin

"The commander of the USS Sulaco was Lt. Gorman." Wasn't he only the commander of the combat unit (with few combat missions)? But what do I know?

dk

Jan-03-2018 8:26 PM

Gavin OP is very interesting and makes a lot of sense. For me, a couple questions remain. How did the pilot get infected and how did the chest burster scurry away and burn a hole in the floor? I am fine with just knowing that it happened, but theories are interesting to ponder.

My basic idea is that the pilot was infected prior to flight, awoke and went on the mission unaware of being infected. How the hole was burned into the floor seems a bit of a dome scratcher.

Gavin

Jan-04-2018 1:06 AM

@ dk,

The pilot must have been out of the pilots chair for a Facehugger to do its thing, but I have always maintained the belief that the hole in the pilots platform was made by the Facehugger in question after it had hatched from an Ovomorph, by spitting acid upwards to get to the pilot, in much a similar way to how the Facehugger used acid to melt Kanes helmet. Remember I showed this a while back in the graphic novel Prometheus: Absolution, that said if I was to revise this graphic novel I would make changes in line with the OP of this topic.

As for the Chestburster, I like to think it was sealed, without atmosphere in one of the arm segments of the derelict Juggernaut. Over the years I have imagined many an Alien movie, and in one treatment I explored that very possibility. Maybe I should share some of this sequel/prequel ideas?

BigDave

Jan-04-2018 4:00 AM

"I'm afraid you are seriously mistaken if you think "that the colonization of LV 426 was to provide hosts to the Aliens which was the company's biggest interest"

I had a reply for this but noticed that ATI had mentioned the same thing, in regards to Alien Isolation which happened in the same year as the Hadleys Hope Colony was set up (2137) which would mean the Company must have known, and is is coincidence the Colony was set up the same year as the events of Isolation?  If we take the Game as Canon it opens up the possibility that indeed the Colony was set up with the intention to be used to become infected.

But alas we cant 100% say the Game applies to Canon, which is why there are GAPS in the Time-Line where Alternative Alien Movies can be made... No need for a Blomkamp Ret-con Alien 3, there is plenty of places to bring in another Alien movie in the Timeline.

Regarding other Replies as far as what Burke Knew etc, i think a lot have covered this up in some replies.  It does appear Burke had no idea of the Derelict until after he meets Ripley, and then the Colonist are sent out to investigate.

Regarding the Moons, i think its certain we was looking at at least 3, but indeed maybe there could be 4, hopefully if RS managed to, or Disney latter do, connect a Movie to Alien or even make another Movie set between Alien and Aliens we can finally find out exactly how many Moons there was.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-04-2018 4:03 AM

@Red0guy

I dont have no answers for those pieces of Work, they are not part of the Movie as far as the details such as those Humanoids...  But we have to wonder WHY was they on those Concepts?  Looking at what the Source Claimed to me in Feb 2015,  some of the things they said do kind of add up.

It appears maybe there was a lot of explanations to the Engineers/Human connections, that all got brushed under the carpet and changed with AC... because it appears back in this time, prior to AC our David did not Create the Xenomorph that ends up on LV-426 but ALAS a lot got changed when Logan came in to re-work on what was going to be a Prometheus Sequel.

I will add it would be interesting if any of the Paglen/Green drafts came out, or if we could interview Messing/Haag and ask them why those Cathedral Concepts had HUMANS on.

The Source i had no longer speaks about the Project and wont go into details more than they already did, the only last thing they mentioned after AC was that maybe they could explore some more of the unused plans for Prometheus 2 in future movies and so they wont give nothing away... only that there was a Curveball that would catch us off guard and that its basically a Matrix Meets The Dark Crystal kind of Plot.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-04-2018 4:29 AM

The wonder with Prometheus and the Space Jockey and LV-223 is while there are clues, it hard to get any concrete answers,  only comments by RS that help and Jon Spaights Alien Engineers that can help.

So with the OT, indeed Females could be vital, maybe it was Female Engineers, maybe Humans or other Humanoids.  The answer could be any of these, and could tie in with Mythos and Biblical events because we have many accounts of the GODS (Angels in Biblical Mythos) taking a liking to Females, and Human Ones.

Indeed Gavin, we dont see any direct proof of any contaminated Urns in Prometheus, maybe they disposed of Faulty Ones that caused the Outbreak?  Who knows... its all very ambiguous, we do see them running away from something and heading to the Big Head/Ampoule/Urn Room.  We did get that Deacon/Xeno like Scream... but its so ambiguous we cant say for sure.

I do wonder if a lot of the Problem is the Changes to Alien Engineers to become Paradise (Prometheus) while Production for Alien Engineers had begun, and maybe Props for the other Movie Draft, just got used in the New Draft, that left some HOLES (Pardon the Pun) in the movie... such as those Wounds on the Engineer Suits, such as the Chest Busted Engineers in Cryo-sleep too.

We have no WAY to be sure what happened, it could be some work was carried out and then simply used in Prometheus (Dead Engineers) because Alien Engineers explanations for them are different to what Prometheus had set up..

I think the Outbreak could have happened easy if someone contaminated the water source, or similar, we dont need to have those Urns leak or Explode to cause any infections... look at Holloway and Dr Shaw, they had not been infected with nothing but what was contained in the Glass Ampoules.

Looking at the Dead Engineers, some of them we can see are clearly HOLLOW, maybe by design fault, or maybe on purpose...  The body suit of the Headless Engineer we could see was HOLLOW but his Helmet contained a Engineer Head, which when activated had Exploded...   I had been led to seeing that a infection of some kind happened that was a Violent Chemical Reaction (Sacrificial Scene) and if the Engineers Body was Sealed in a Airtight Space Suit, the reaction would build up and up and under a lot of Pressure before Exploding out of the Container/Suit...  

We see a Violent Reaction when we put Mentos etc in Cola... put one in, shake the bottle and attach the lid and a Violent Reaction occurs where the CO2 Forces itself out of the weakest point.. If you had a hole or few in a Plastic Bottle, and filled the Holes with say sellotape/sticky tape or plugged it with Bubble Gum etc, then filled it with Cola, the Cola will NOT LEAK but if you put a Minto inside and Shake the Bottle and the Violent Reaction would explode out of those filled in Holes.

This is what i think caused those Holes in the Engineer Suits, the Room they ran too, somehow prevented the Infection from spreading...  Hence those Urns were fine... until the Climate inside was compromised by the Prometheus Crew.   I think this theory adds up to when Dr Shaw drops hints about seeing something like this before..  EBOLA and thus to me this told me a Viral/Parasitical infection had taken place and not Chest Busters.

I think Problems happen when they (FOX/RS) keep changing what the Bio-Weapon does, like how the Black Goo acted in Alien Covenant compared to Prometheus.

Maybe the Parasite/Virus has a certain effect, but then when it infects a Female, this leads to something else...  But ALAS with AC this does not add up to such a theory because Female Engineers had been infected and they just appeared to be turned to Carbon Statues

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

Jan-04-2018 4:39 AM

BigDave

I wonder which part of the Matrix, the virtual reality one or the battery part? and The Dark Crystal part? Is the Black Goo/virus the result of the Engineers "purifying" themselves? If the Title was Originally Paradise, was always David the Satan figure?

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