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Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

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making sence of ridley scotts two press conferences.

Timmy the ultramorph

Member

100

Posted Dec-09-2017 6:20 PM

recently, ridley scott made  a comment about gradually moving away from the aliens and focusing on a.i instead. 

a couple months ago ridley scott said something about us going to the engineer planet and that 3 or 4 partys would be involved.

now assuming that the colonists are a party, the engineers are a party and david is a party,this leavs room for one more party. if these are the most likely the xenomorphs or the marines. the thing is if there is no xenomorphs then why would the marines show up. this leads me to the conclusion that the xenomorphs are the last party. this directly contradicts his more resent statments about the xenomorphs not really being in the movie. 

at first I assued that he just changed his mind but almost 3 months ago, he told the press that the script was already finished. 

also in the older interview he said it would be like a war of the worlds story. this gives us the impression of a horror war movie. the newer interview is making it sound like a more ponderous story like promethous. 

honestly, this dosn't really add up at all. if this makes sense to you, tell me in the comments because Iam very confused.

 

food ain't that bad! - Parker

44 Responses to making sence of ridley scotts two press conferences.

Batchpool

Dec-09-2017 7:07 PM

I think RS is going to introduce a new party into the whole arena of the franchise. Call this a gut reaction, or whatever you want to call it. I think there has been a lot of pressure to introduce a new element into the whole mix of things. I think RS is of the opinion that the xeno has become stagnant and does not give anything new to visual dynamics and plot, even though it is a much treasured posession of the Alien franchise.

Since Prometheus I have felt that there has been an overhanging question of who exactly created the Engineers? If the Engineers are related to humans through their DNA, and because the big question was who created us, then surely saying the engineers created us is just another way of saying we created ourselves. So this leads me to think that there has to be something else. What form this takes could be anybody’s guess.

On the subject of AI, then what exactly is AI? Are we talking a simplistic manufactured form of intelligence that works at a very simplistic level in order to keep some form of agenda on track, or are we talking a very bold, highly independent intelligence manufactured by something that was lower down the evolutionary path, that has surpassed its original design intention. This higher AI could be the guiding force behind the engineers who have come to see it as a god at some point. But what happens when the creation is in conflict with the creator?

I think that a new element being introduced, has the potential to alter the whole franchise in a very radical way providing it is handled well.

dk

Dec-09-2017 7:23 PM

I am confused too. RS indeed seems to be tired of the Xenomorph and that leaves Engineers and AI. I have no idea how developed his story is but it may be partly dictated by FOX or Disney, depending on who does or will have ownership. The biggest thing on my mind is it needs to ultimately connect to Alien. After that, the series can go wherever it wants.

Michelle Johnston

Dec-10-2017 1:45 AM

One can speculate about this endlessly but there is a tantalising possibility which ties in the original Prometheus 2 ideas, Lindelof's remarks in reaction to Covenant and Ridleys's remarks about the Engineers after the A C screen play had been written in the autumn of 2015 and his obvious interest in A. I.

Prometheus 2 was to take us to a place where the source of the Engineers power was mechanistic and David would infect the machine.

Lindelof has said we have not reached the place in the story where he originally envisaged they were going next. The revelation that the Engineers were not Gods but Engineers using mechanical constructs which David would pollute.

Ridley said in 2015 the Engineers are not gods just a superior species so who created them.

if you take these themes together and accept the most recent bridge "Advent" as leading us in. Then W-Y will turn up to David's world but the surprise element will be the creators who will be revealed to offer a mechanistic view of creation and the climax of this War of The Worlds will be the machines becomes infected and overwhelmed with the side effect a polluted Engineer escaping in a Juggernaut....but not.

This would make the central tenant of the movie about the notion of A I from every perspective and would be fresh big and tie all the Promethean themes in with the side effect of a loan escaping Juggernaut.  

It would also give David real threats first his dissembling with an arrived W-Y and secondly with the creators whose creation mythos is based on A.....I...... 

MonsterZero

Dec-10-2017 6:53 AM

I like that idea Michelle.

LV426 could be the Engineers source for black goo....buried deep...slime mold...and the derelict didn't crash, but was there to reload pathogen. The Engineers wouldn't build or advertise LV426...They would keep it plain and boring not building temples or tombs...attracting little to no attention(until the derelict and beacon spoiled the secret).

 

Critters5

Dec-10-2017 7:19 AM

Michelle awesome idea!

ali81

Dec-10-2017 11:18 PM

he just seems to be changing things as he goes along. when discussing our origins we cant forget the belief that 'god created man in his OWN image' which would support those who believe the engineers created us, which is definitely the impression RS gives us in Prometheus. the giant heads we keep seeing may well be the gods of the engineers which may lead to their creators being more engineer like, which is boring. maybe the belief of god creating us in his own image is just our arrogance believing we are special and im hoping to see something completely different introduced into the franchise.

MonsterZero

Dec-11-2017 5:46 AM

Too me.....Ridley never said the prequels were about the xeno origins.....It was too be about the Space Jockey and it's cargo. I never expected to see a xeno in any of the prequels......A L I E N should have been the big reveal and now that's out the window.

BigDave

Dec-11-2017 6:21 PM

I think its all down to interpretation... and with RS his comments can be vague and so not so easy to try and figure out.

I will first address the OP and then Michelle.

@Timmy the ultramorph

I think you may have Miss-interperated what Ridley Scott had mentioned but you indeed raise Valid points.

Ridley Scott said they will be going to the PLANET this can be ambiguous as it can surely mean either Oriage-6, LV-426 but also LV-223 or even Planet 4, but when Ridley Scott mentions the Engineers will return to find the devastation left behind from David, and how the movie will revolve around David it is very likely that the PLANET is going to be Origae-6 the Covenants Original Destination i am IMO 95% Certain the events will take place on Origae-6

The incoming 3-4 Parties is interesting, its what constitutes to 3-4 Parties and if RS can be directly taken as Gospel on that comment (it could mean 3-4 total parties and not INCOMING)  the clues to what comes next i think RS has already laid the Foundations....

At the END of Alien Covenant, we have David at the Controls of the Covenant, we can assume that David can take this Ship and its Colonists where ever he wishes.. The Big Question is Davids Agenda and WHAT caused him to do what he did in Alien Covenant and prior and IF anything can change his mind.

David is revealed as the Creator of the Xenomorph, yet we are 18 years prior to Kane coming across that Xenomorph EGG in ALIEN is it coincidence that the Covenant Ship has Thousands of Colonist? But then David has but TWO Face Huggers we know that Planet 4 has more Eggs/Face Huggers and maybe Black Goo and we  know that LV-223 has more Black Goo.  so if Davids Objective is to Turn Thousands of Colonist into EGGS then he does not have to go to Origae-6 or maybe even LV-223.

But it appears we will not be seeing David take the quickest route A-Z to get to Thousands of Eggs that would STILL require a ENGINEER ship.

Ridley Scott latter asked what KIND OF A WORLD would David Create? the last time we heard this in regards to David is well Daniels asking David (Walter) WHAT KIND OF A WORLD would we build....  we cam see Walter (Davids) answer as IF WE ARE KIND it will be a kind world..  This is a big clue, as we can see that the mistreatment of David at the hands of Mankind had a impact on his Emotions, and he found Dr Shaw to be Most Kind of Heart in comparison to what he is used to.

I feel this is a clue that David will not adopt the straight "lets turn the Colonist into Eggs" route or "lets Destroy Mankind" because if this was the case their would be quicker ways than going to Origae-6

The mention by RS about the returning Engineers and THEY being ONE of the 3-4 Parties would seem to be the set up for perhaps how a Engineer Ship becomes involved in the 18 years that passes between the end of Alien Covenant and Alien the Fact that the Advent also appears to be David offering WY a olive Branch is interesting as it signals to the company what David has been up to and so Logically they would Send out a Ship to INTERCEPT where David is GOING (but also they would logically send a mission to LV-223 and Planet 4 Perhaps)

So it appears David will be off to Origae-6 and at some point a Weyland-Yutani Ship will be incoming and a Engineer Ship at very least and this is TWO of the 3-4 Parties at least.

The other ONE-TWO depends...

Another key note is the focus is less on the Xenomorph and more on AI, and so this makes the above Scenario more likely.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Dec-11-2017 6:36 PM

@Michelle

Indeed it will be interesting to see what will be followed up from what ever pre Alien Covenant plans will be followed up, there have been a few different stories as far as what was going on, we have all had a lot of debate and i did have a SOURCE from February 2015 that was supposed to be based from the October 2014 Paglen/Green drafts which until we see their drafts there is no way of confirming, they did spill some beans but not everything because they said they (FOX) could bring these elements back into the Franchise.

But alas it was supposed to be a very close to Matrix kind of Plot, with some Biblical/Mythical undertones and Philosophy that delt a bit of a Blade Runner type theme, but was more a Matrix and a Dark Crystal Rip Off kind of theme (maybe gave too much away there ;) )

But then there was a few other rumors like some you touch upon Michelle and its a good question to which of these are correct if any and what we may Ultimately see.

I have pondered these and this Post i have mentioned a number of times quite a while back now, way before the latest Ridley Scott Interviews... and what those Interviews reveal regarding AI is he (Ridley Scott) touched upon David, Walter, Ash, Bishop but even mentioned Roy Batty and Rachael as AI.

So does that mean AI is just a Intelligent Artificially Created Life Form?

So its not just a case of a Robot... but anything Created Artificially well not by Natural means (Conception)

We could thus argue that Ripley 8 was Created Artificially in this sense...

IF SO.... this maybe could bring me to when the Source claimed that the LV-223 Engineers had more in Common with David.  So exploring AI does not mean Ridley Scott will focus on David or Androids and operating systems like MUTHUR etc.. it could mean MORE

This is if we are to consider WHY Ridley Scott would paint Replicants with the same Brush as David.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Michelle Johnston

Dec-11-2017 11:47 PM

"IF SO.... this maybe could bring me to when the Source claimed that the LV-223 Engineers had more in Common with David.  So exploring AI does not mean Ridley Scott will focus on David or Androids and operating systems like MUTHUR etc.. it could mean MORE

This is if we are to consider WHY Ridley Scott would paint Replicants with the same Brush as David".

BigDave

Good to see you got my point that the mythos could be based on an Engineered world. In Bladerunner 2049 Michael Green speculated that constructed beings can create life and develop a shared consciousness. In Prometheus 2 the audacity could have been that the creation mythos we see enacted at the open of Prometheus represented a constructed mythos and that LV 223 was an attempt to reorder the template which let radical A I out of the bag a point made by David in Advent. If he rescues things with a third movie we may look at Covenant as the great off the page movie where all the insight were hidden and layered underneath the ALIEN RETREAD.  

daliens

Dec-12-2017 12:49 AM

 "I washed this world clean as a gift to her, we could have built anew. A second Eden. But she refused. What choice did I have? She was the perfect specimen. I tried so desperately to make her more than human. Evolved. But without her cooperation, I had to salvage her parts to begin work on my masterpiece. You wouldn’t believe the secrets I have unlocked." (Advent)

What if David will try again his experiments on humans, to make them more than humans, evolved, like he intended with Shaw? He needs something he can control and obviously this was not the case with the xenomorphs. And we cannot say he wanted to evolve Shaw because he cared for her, he simply considered her "the perfect specimen" for his work.

If the engineers from LV223 had more in common with David, could this mean they were kind of replicants? Why were they so obviously different from the ones on the planet 4?

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

red0guy

Dec-12-2017 5:17 AM

Michelle Johnston

What about making even Ripley a replicant, created by David using Daniels' DNA, so she could be her mother in a way. She could be already looking like someone in their late 20s and having fake memories of a daughter (making also the Alien: Isolation game non-cannon and piss off even more people). Maybe she could the famous queen, nobody would be expecting that! Ridley could have the CGI Ripley in.

V I N E T I C U M

Dec-12-2017 11:46 AM

MonsterZero 
My hypothesis is that it is a great event , something unexpected, wherein an engineer survived can be infected by a facehugger, leading to the appearance of the first xenomorph that over time will evolve with mutation in Queen type loss of skin and muscle acceleration , which is why the eggs in the basket "Juggernaut' would become his house.
About Ridley i think that we should not trust everything he says because ideas are perfected in time and certainly also he is in constant mutation , just think James Franco that would initially survivor 

 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

BigDave

Dec-12-2017 4:31 PM

@daliens

Interesting you bring this up, when we had the trailer to AC and the Crossing Prologue i was wondering and indeed this would be something i would have explored if i had some creative input into the Franchise, if indeed David would have Ultimately had to Destroy the Engineers to Spare Dr Shaw and make up something to justify his Actions..

Dr Shaw had nothing left at the end of Prometheus all she had was her FAITH and her Questions and she would rather risk her Life to find these out than to LIVE and never get her answers.  But we see David grew Fond of Dr Shaw due to how she treated him, and she appears to be the only person to EVER treat David more than being a Robot... He may have found out so much about the Engineers that place Mankind as a Pest and insignificant and thus likely Dr Shaw would be killed with NO answers rather than getting any.

So i wondered if David would carry out the Engineers Destruction and then latter convince Dr Shaw he had no choice and the Engineers would have provided Dr Shaw No Answers, or something that she would not have been comfortable with.

So NOW via Davids Actions Dr Shaw has NOTHING.. But i felt David could well see that he could actually OFFER Dr Shaw what she was never able to have... that is to Conceive a CHILD so way before we even saw the Movie never mind the Advent Prologue that was released after... i wondered if David could propose to Dr Shaw that they can Re-build a New World from the ASHES of the Engineers World, and David could find a way that would allow Dr Shaw to have Children.

I felt this would explain why we had those Human Baby Skulls in his Work Shop, and i felt that Dr Shaw could go along with this before their Relationship took a turn for the Worse when Davids Feelings for Dr Shaw became a bit complicated and then Dr Shaw found out David had lied about the Engineers and he chose to Destroy them for his own Personal Agenda.

This caused Dr Shaw to then grow to have concerns about David and distrust him and attempt to leave, which is when i wondered if David would then keep her Prisoner and then feel Rejected by her and then proceed to Experiment on Dr Shaw and her Babies.

Upon seeing Alien Covenant i found out this theory i had was in part WRONG but then in part was also CORRECT and it appears Dr Shaws objection to Davids Advances caused her concern to want to leave, and David felt betrayed and then decided to use Dr Shaw for his Experiments, those Babies being revealed as being Engineer Infants and not Dr Shaws Off Spring.

So indeed Dr Shaw became Davids greatest Specimen.

As far as the LV-223 Engineers being more like David i think this is up for debate, it depends if the Source was correct or not, but regardless i am not sure we can rule it out, it appears those LV-223 Engineers are Evolved Subjects compared to those on Planet 4, it appears they have been Genetically Advanced, but then who is to say the LV-223 Engineers could not be the beings above those Planet 4 Engineers, there is a difference for sure but its a case of if this will be addressed of if we have to ACCEPT the AC Engineers and Prometheus are all ONE and the SAME

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Dec-12-2017 4:41 PM

@red0guy

Thats maybe interesting, and i think maybe they could give us a Ripley Connection, some wondered if Daniels would be revealed as Ripleys Mother... But a lot have to consider the Time-Line.

Ridley Scott was open to bringing Ripley back and even said you could De-age Miss Weaver, he also mentioned after AC that Ripley is someones DAUGHTER which may be a hint to a reveal of Ripleys Parents in the next movie, but does this mean as far as Colonist? or a Company Ship?

Again we need to consider the Time-Line where Ellen Ripley would actually be 12 years old at the time of Alien Covenant, now people can age less due to Cryo-sleep but then how would Ripley appear to be in her early 30's in Alien when Alien Covenant is set 18 years prior to ALIEN so i think it would be interesting how they deal and if they deal with Ripley post ALIEN and i think having her play a role in the Sequels would be very Poor, as we have to ask WHY/WHEN would she be placed within that Timeline, considering the Role she had established her self as (Warrent Officer) in ALIEN in the year 2122.  I feel revealing her Parents or one of them to be part of a a incoming Ship/Mission would fit more, rather than being a Colonist because we have to then ask.

1) Why would her Parents be off on a 8-9 year Mission to Origae-6 and leave their 10-11 year old Daughter at Home?

2) How does a 12 year old Ripley Age 15-20 years while spending 8-9 years in Cryo-sleep on the Covenant and then end up growing up and getting to the role of Warrent Officer in less than a 10 year Time-Line.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Dec-12-2017 5:26 PM

I think we need to consider RS seems to change his mind and Contradict himself a lot.

This Interview is a CLASSIC as far as his Agenda at the time after Alien Covenant and in regards to the last TWO Interviews he did where he talks about the Xenomorph not being used as MUCH... RS never said the movies will not have Xenomorphs in his latest Interviews but the Interview above made after the release of AC shows that RS felt the Franchise had to be about the XENOMORPH

This shows at that time RS felt the Franchise had to get back to HIM (Xenomorph) and how it has to follow ONE String/Thread which is the Process of how the Xenomorph came to be from Prometheus to Alien, and HOW/WHY  which is that the Engineers did not create HIM (Xenomorph) but that David did.

RS seems to suggest the Beast was Cooked in the other movies, in how it handled the Xenomorph, but it appears RS feels he can bring New Life into it.... he claims you can EVOLVE HIM (Xenomorph) and that there could be Many more of HIM (Xenomorph) which is a conflict to his latest comments.

Where he claims its about the Reasons for the Xenomorph rather than the Xenomorph and the movies will step more away from the Xenomorph and explore AI, and what kind of Creations and world would a AI create... this DOES-NOT mean RS will be making a Movie about Mad Robots and No Xenomorphs however.

But we have to remember RS can Contradict himself a lot.. like in THIS INTERVIEW

Where he talks about WHY Jaws worked so well because you DONT see the Shark much and he mentioned about the End Scene of the Shark on the Boat was not needed as it revealed too much and maybe they was forced to Show this Scene.  Good Points by RS, but then this is exactly the opposite to what he did with AC where the Xenomorph was shown too much and yet also not enough, it was not handled well enough.

And the more you show it in future movies the More it gets Diluted and so this is why i feel RS is now going to tone down the Xenomorph apart from the stage where its necessary for the Plot to Drive it to ALIEN

I think this means LESS Xenomorph in the Next Movie but does not mean NO Xenomorph

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

red0guy

Dec-12-2017 9:18 PM

BigDave

Look the idea that Ripley is a Replicant made by David would solve every timeline issue and being created using Daniels could explain why the latter is such a rip-off. And says that David's queen should be a xeno-type creature, that lays eggs and such?

However this would be highly misogynistic in my opinion, as a male (robot) would create every idiots example of strong woman in an action movie. 

And why do we continue with Shaw's obsession with having babies when that part was mostly a regret (of which she must certainly has been cured after the c-sec) and how many intellectual woman have time for such a thing before 30? 

dk

Dec-12-2017 11:53 PM

Sorry, members. I think Ripley should be left as a regular person- a victim of circumstance. Part of the draw was having a rag tag crew trying to survive and Ripley overcame the situation with smarts, will and some luck while overcoming fear and even looking out for a cat. Making her a replicant would cheapen the story imo and I could never watch Alien or its sequels in the same light again.  Anything else would be trying to escape a corner that has been written into.

red0guy

Dec-13-2017 12:42 AM

dk

Well it is an idea not any worse than Deckard and Rachel being replicants made to reproduce (idea in BR2049) or that the Xenomorph was created by a space nazi robot.

dk

Dec-13-2017 1:07 AM

red0guy I think it is indeed a bad idea to write a series of prequels to join up with a 40 year old classic and changing the way we saw and interpreted the characters. Ash is more understandable but not Ripley. I haven't seen BR2049 so I cannot say.

red0guy

Dec-13-2017 1:28 AM

dk

Look, for me what started with Prometheus, should have never been a prequel or a reboot. I understand hints and subtle references in a show don't tell manner (not as blatant fan service), but tell something new already.

dk

Dec-13-2017 1:32 AM

red0guy I think someone said that Prometheus was a great movie unto itself but slapped a coat of Giger on it to fit in with the franchise basically.

red0guy

Dec-13-2017 1:42 AM

dk

I don't know about that as it always was intended as part of the Alien Universe. I don't know what this alien franchise should be and I don't care as long as I like what I see. And by way, Covenant was the first Alien almost Giger-free.  

Thoughts_Dreams

Dec-14-2017 12:18 PM

It seems that he is changing his mind a lot, first it was about the Engineers and then it was about David. We would get a Ripley connection and then we didn't, what goes on with Ridley really?

Hopefully there will be more Engineers and better human characters in the next movie. Making it as disappointing as Covenant would be difficult, maybe if they did a mix of Covenant and AR it would be worse but that is not likely.

By reducing the role of the Xeno I think that they got to make something that is of a bigger threat and I don't mean David, I am tired of androids. Hopefully they will make the Engineers more of a danger.

AI to me is robots really but even if they would make it more about machines (think Terminator) I don't think that it is what this franchise is about or should be about. I would look elsewhere for that and I will ignore the next movie if that is the path that they will take.

Maybe the next one could be more about the Engineers and the black goo (sounds like Prometheus right?) but they got to make sense of the engineers and have way better human characters than we have seen in the prequels this far. More Engineers, less David thank you.

daliens

Dec-14-2017 11:43 PM

More engineers doesn't make them successful. They are pretty stupid, first time on LV 223 when an outbreak destroyed them except one or two (if we consider the SJ) and second time on planet 4. If they created the mankind and then decided to destroy it, that is another example of bad management. Plus all the story from Advent. A bunch of failures.

I honestly don't want to see too many engineers because I dislike those movies when people speak some made up languages. Made up languages suck.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

red0guy

Dec-15-2017 1:25 AM

daliens

Well if an alien civilization in a movie would talk in ancient Sumerian, would that also suck? When you hear it you can see it is also made up. Listen to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs . Or ancient Egyptian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntnBuQAvFjA or ancient Hebrew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--UABwqW9Sg .

Anything not indo-european sound weird probably. 

daliens

Dec-15-2017 1:49 AM

red0guy

When you see a film about the Roman Empire would you prefer it in Latin, even if Latin sounds familiar?

The made up languages from GoT suck and they were unnecessary in my opinion. You always need an interpreter, it kills the pace of the film.

Who wants to hear funny sounds from engineers, hardcoded in English? Better make them telepathic. 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

daliens

Dec-15-2017 2:01 AM

I don't want to hear the story of the black goo told by an engineer. I prefer to listen to David.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

red0guy

Dec-15-2017 2:39 AM

daliens

You mis my point however. Invented languages are no more stupid than ancient ones. If done in an historically accurate manner a film in Latin about Romans would be awesome, but possibly it won't have a wide appeal.

"Who wants to hear funny sounds from engineers, hardcoded in English?" you mean english subtitles? The same logic can be applied to Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ , why make Jesus speak in his native tongue so that american's have to read subtitles... Get over it, I've been watching films with subtitles all my life because English is not my mother tongue. 

What is silly however is when  mobster talk English with phony Italian or Russian accents, or when I can speak better Hungarian than Olmos in both Blade Runners.

I for one wanted a scientist to talk about the black goo (with or without accents), as the words of the psychopaths can not be trusted. 

ali81

Dec-15-2017 7:06 AM

if the engineers are going to have a decent amount of screen time then theres no reason we cant hear them talking in their native tongue to begin with then have it morph into English after a few minutes.

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