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Bio-Mechanical Xenormoph... Shoe-Horning

Bio-Mechanical Xenormoph... Shoe-Horning

BigDave

Nov-24-2017 1:18 PM

With RS mentioning the Next Movie would be more about AI, and looking at his comments about David will be off to the Planet (Origae-6) what kind of a world would he create...   And how we will see 3-4 Players incoming of which the Engineers will be ONE

Knowing that David has contacted the Company and shared what he has been up to, we can SAFELY Assume the Company will be sending in at least ONE Party.

David is off to Origae-6 with TWO Face-Huggers, he has mentioned all he has left to Perfect Now is his QUEEN and we clearly see the Xenomorph in AC is not Bio-Mechanical like the ONE in ALIEN

Ridley Scott said a while back, the Beast has life in it, and you can Evolve it, he also said regarding the Reason for Doing AC is to find out WHO and WHY would someone create such a THING, he also said that it felt BIO-MECHANICAL and AC was to START to show us HOW

With the next movie being about AI and with 3-4 incoming Parties, i think we can Safely Assume ONE of these will be sent by the Company with Precautions, ONE is the Engineers. But this is just TWO of 3-4 arriving Parties.

With RS interesting in AI more than the Xenomorph in the next movie, and Origae-6 taking 7.5 years to reach, then no doubt David will Charade as Walter and begin to construct a Human Colony. It leaves no more than 10 years and likely less to Reach the Event of the DERELICT/SPACE JOCKEY and Thousands of Eggs of Bio-Mechanical Xenomorphs.

Therefor.....  Would it be interesting to have a MORE advanced Synthetic than David or Walter, be part of one of the incoming Parties?  And if this Synthetic is more closer to Human than David is and is a SYNTHETIC CONSTRUCT like ELDEN was from the Prometheus Fire and Stone Comics who became INFECTED with the BLACK GOO.

Well Originally Fire and Stone was going to go with a Female Synthetic, called ELDENA and i would not be surprised if they consider Re-using such concepts, because the introduction to a Female Synthetic Construct could be interesting and ACT as a Plot Device to allow for the Synthetic to become Davids Queen... maybe even some more Robot on Robot Attraction ;)

Would you oppose such a idea?

How else to you think they could Tackle Davids Queen and how the Xenomorph becomes Bio-Mechanical?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

33 Responses to Bio-Mechanical Xenormoph... Shoe-Horning

joylitt

Nov-24-2017 2:10 PM

Like you said, this would be too much like shoehorning AI into the Alien concept. Also, the idea of that robotic queen risks becoming too similar to the main character of the movie "Species". I believe the next film needs to delve deeper into the mythology of the engineers and their relationship with the xenomorph race.

dk

Nov-24-2017 2:34 PM

A crew has always had a synthetic and it seems it would be more advanced than David. There is no reason why it couldn't be a female. 

It would be an interesting idea if the next film delves more into AI and David's story arch. However, it would be too much if the next one is to explore the Engineers.

Thoughts_Dreams

Nov-26-2017 1:20 AM

"Therefor..... Would it be interesting to have a MORE advanced Synthetic than David or Walter, be part of one of the incoming Parties? And if this Synthetic is more closer to Human than David is and is a SYNTHETIC CONSTRUCT like ELDEN was from the Prometheus Fire and Stone Comics who became INFECTED with the BLACK GOO."

No, it is too much about robots already I do not care for more of that.

"Knowing that David has contacted the Company and shared what he has been up to, we can SAFELY Assume the Company will be sending in at least ONE Party."

As far as rebellion, what if someone that is employed at the company realizes that it is bad and starts to rebel against it, like Ripley.

"I believe the next film needs to delve deeper into the mythology of the engineers and their relationship with the xenomorph race."

I would rather have that than the robot story that this unfortunately is turning into.

Critters5

Nov-27-2017 8:29 AM

I'll pass on Eldena. I think things would get to Star Trekish if we went that far into the sci-fi world. I personally believe Ridley is senile and made a mistake or was talking out of his ass when he said 3-4 visitors. I will likely be 2 I'm guessing. I am very interested in how the mechanical aspects of the xeno are introduced but I don't want this to go to far out there or we could have something like Alien 4. 

Critters5

Nov-27-2017 8:30 AM

Synchronicity Bigdave:

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/11/27/first-ever-robot-citizen-wants-baby.html

 

ali81

Nov-27-2017 8:45 AM

I simply hate the perceived path RS is taking the franchise. I mean hes got Bladerunner to explore AI in any great detail. u wont see Bladerunner introduce an alien species and then have it be the focal point of any future BR films so why do it to the alien franchise? its about the beast with an expanded universe that centers around the engineers and their connection to the beast and added into the mix for the human element is the company. nah, lets ditch all that, take a huge big fkn shit on what the alien franchise stands for, and make it all about a lunatic synthetic. seriously?? tone down the xeno? ok, if ur focusing on the expanded universe i.e the engineers but put even then u have to have the beast for it to make sense. AC FORCED a xeno in there and it had no impact. looked great as did the neomorph but the beasts got smoked easily so wtf was the point? I love RS films but AC is the worst hes ever done imo. hes lost the true imagination and wonder within the alien franchise and is simply too stubborn to change.

BigDave

Nov-27-2017 9:05 AM

I think the Problem we have now, and i know its a subject that has split fans more than the Engineers being Genetic Engineers of the Human Race... is that David Created the Xenomorph.

I think RS wanted to try and cover more with the Universe, where Prometheus was to ask WHY as far as how the Xenomorph had occurred which is a result of a Bio-Weapon those Engineers Created and it was to explore WHY they would want to create such a Horrific Bio-Weapon, rather than showing us the History of the Xenomorph and Queens etc.

The Route RS was taking the Franchise appears to be that the Xenomorph is just a Bi-Product of the Biological Warfare those Engineers had been working on, and that we have seen the Xenomorph done over and over and that the Reason behind why those Engineers Created the Bio-Weapon was what RS wanted to follow.

Due to pressure to please Fans, he was asked to give the Fans the Xenomorph again and Show us how it was Created...  And the Curve-ball that RS decided on, has upset a lot of fans.

But what do they do now? 

I cant see them doing a U-Turn again and showing us actually the Engineers Created the Xenomorph, and David just tampered with it, because it would make no sense to all the work David had conducted over 10 years if the Engineers had Eggs that he could evolve.

RS had said the Xenomorph is not quite THERE yet as far as the Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic and so i think this WILL be explored before we get to ALIEN it think a number of Fans are hoping that the Xenomorph is Bio-Mechanical because its something very Ancient the Engineers or even another Species had created.

I however think the Engineers or another Species, will ULTIMATELY Evolve Davids Creation.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Critters5

Nov-27-2017 9:25 AM

Looks like Ridley had it right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1NxcRNW_Qk

 

ali81

Nov-27-2017 9:29 AM

I can live with the original 'David reengineered' what the engineers started plot. I much preffered the book where David mentions there was already an egg when he arrived, but the book now doesn't matter as RS is obviously contradicting the book, so what really was the point of the book??? I can accept the original creature isn't the beast we get in alien as the mural portrays a more deacon looking creature. I love all the mystery surrounding the engineers and the beast but now it just seems from comments RS is coming out with is he doesn't give a f**k about any of that. he no longer cares for the very reasons he returned. hes using the franchise to focus on something he wants to explore and to hell with what makes that very franchise so successful. imo there is no place for his main focus in the alien franchise. AI is not the alien franchise. the beast and now since Prometheus, the engineers are. u can just see the derelict's fate all being down to David now, even though the mystery created by that very ship is a huge part of what makes the franchise so wonderful. I don't think he cares much for the franchise and is using it as a platform to simply explore what he wants. bad call and if this ends up being the case, his prequel series will have as much effect and impact on the franchise as AVP and AVPR did with the eception of Prometheus. it has faults but it at least left doors open that sequels could expand on. AC should have been epic due to the foundations Prometheus laid but sadly, he has managed to mess it up and ham string himself into a corner I don't see any way out of for him. the run up to AC was perfect. the ground work by Prometheus then the run up to AC, the trailers were awesome and I, along with most on here, were so stocked and pumped to see it. what a let down and now hes gna rub salt in the wounds by trashing the very thing that makes alien and making it a BR extension? nah, time to go if that's his plan imo. I watch alien because its about the beast and by extension, the engineers now and I watch BR because it explores synthetics. im not interested in a BR spinoff called alien awakening.

Critters5

Nov-27-2017 9:34 AM

Bigdave, so you think the Engineers or some other species will take the neomorph and create a xenomorph? Will they be able to fit that in 1 movie? 

BigDave

Nov-27-2017 4:05 PM

I think a lot has to do with how things have evolved...  Ridley Scott had prior to Prometheus explained what happened to the Derelict, and the Prequels were supposed to show us this, which would be that the Engineers had been experimenting with a Bio-Weapon (in various forms) to use on Mankind, but it got out of hand. Prometheus was toned down a little but the principle was the same.

RS and Lindeloff felt Prometheus had sufficient answers to those Questions and wanted to explore the Engineers and WHY they would create life and destroy life and WHO is at the top of the Chain... while also evolving Davids Arc.

Fans seemed to protest to parts of Prometheus and Alien 5 gained interest and so RS had to bring back the Beast to Appease Fans, which meant a U-Turn to a degree.  Looking at the Book it could be it followed a similar path to what a Source i had in early 2015, and that David would be RE-CREATING it..

It appears that at some point after some of the drafts that ADF would have read, that RS had decided it would be much more interesting if David Actually CREATED the Xenomorph....  The Themes are not so much about AI but about Creation, and what happens when you create something Intelligent that can evolve and think for itself and no longer sees its Creator as its Creator intended.

So RS feels the Ultimate Hubris of the Engineers is Creating Mankind and not destroying us, which leads to us developing the way we have, and then we also Sub-Create and our Hubris is again Sub-Creating.  And that our Sub-Creation DAVID will eventually lead to ours and the Engineers undoing.

HOWEVER... The Black Goo is the Blue-Print for the Deacon, Neomorphs and Xenomorphs.. and this BLUE-PRINT is not a creation of David.  I think RS was trying to explore the history of this Blue-print and Hubris from the use of it.... but Fans wanted Xenomorphs so maybe RS decided ok.... he can Shoe-horn the Xenomorph in as a Creation of this Black Goo and make it by David.... so that Fans upset with this could find some Comfort in the other Horrors the Engineers had been up to prior to the LV-223 Outbreak.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-27-2017 4:12 PM

@Critters5

Maybe... i think and its only my interpretation, that we need to look at the Biblical Context and ask WHO are the Fallen Angles, they are a group of Angels who followed Lucifer in Rebellion against GOD... Lucifer was GOD's favored Creation at this point.... but he was made so Perfect and had been given Free-will that he saw no reason why he should be seen as lesser than his Creator.

GOD then created Adam, who GOD created Perfect, and so Adam was Gods newest and favored creation, and Lucifer/Satan would not worship Man as he saw Man as in superior to himself and the Angels.   And so he corrupted Mankind to fall from disfavor with GOD.

So what we have here is the Pursuit of Perfection and the consequences of this and we see this with the Engineers, Mankind and also David....  we have to then look at the Deacon Mural which seems to show those Engineers Worshiped the Deacon maybe as a sign of Perfection.

But messing about with this pursuit, Ultimately cost them dearly...

So maybe those above the Engineers or the Engineers themselves could come across Davids Creation and Witness the Evolution he has made with their Black Goo and come to Worship and see this as Perfect and then attempt to Experiment/Evolve it themselves which i think could lead to the Space Jockey Incident.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Leto

Nov-28-2017 2:07 AM

What about the fact that the Blu-Ray Prometheus contains additional materials (letters). One letter contains a record that says that WY knows about Delerict on LV-426 before the events of Prometheus. And, as we know, xeno on Derelict was a biomechanical.

So, I think, that David will not create a biomechanical xeno. And he will not fly to LV-426. Moreover - in this case, Alien Awakening even doesn't need to adjust to the timeline of the first Alien. in other words - I want to say that the RS trilogy is not a prequel to Alien. But a separate story in the same universe.

 

Or this letter is just doesn't matter and RS will trying to create a xeno/LV-426/Derelict/timeline in AW. Will see.

 

P.S. In Alien79, in the movie itself show/mention/talking about a time when Nostromo meet Alien?

Ati

Nov-28-2017 4:08 AM

I would like to see more disgusting creatures as well in the next movie - not just this beautiful Eldena. :D

Critters5

Nov-28-2017 11:33 AM

Bigdave great points, but how could they come to admire David's work when you already have a xenomorph in the mural (which may be nothing more than a props to Giger?)

cuponator3000

Nov-28-2017 1:15 PM

An easier way to get screen time dedicated to making the more bio-mechanical Xenomorph is to have David construct a synthetic. Whether it is just like him or more of a construct (such as Elden [was not a fan of that] or even Replicants), that is the easy way to plant the seeds and build to the bio-mechanical Xenomorph in the finale. They can weave the ideas in a nice cinematic fashion. 

Not a map, an invitation

BigDave

Nov-28-2017 4:03 PM

@Leto

Indeed there was that information and also the company was aware of the LV-426 System i think in the year 2038 as far as the Weyland Industries Viral Website, but FOX have replaced this site since AC came about and it appears with AC, they are RE-WRITING some Canon, and so the Blu-ray extras i am afraid are no longer Canon. The same applies with a lot of David 8 Marketing for Prometheus as well.

Prometheus gave a lot of clues to the Space Jockey Fate, its just they was very vague... prior to Prometheus and i mean quite a lot of time prior RS had confirmed what happened to the Space Jockey, but with Prometheus RS had made some comments that further backed this up and added a few key points to it... giving us a Time-Frame and some hints to more details... 

But it appears with AC they have decided to U-Turn the Space Jockey Ancient Event into something much much more recent.

@Critters5

There are reports the Mural is just a Easter Egg and no more... but to me it looked more like the Deacon than the Xenomorph and my Interpretation is the Engineers Encountered a Organism/Paradise or some event/experiments that lead to something that is the Ancestor to the Xenomorph, this was either the Mural Deacon, or the Mural Deacon was further Experiments on this ANCESTOR

Alien Covenant has evolved it so as that now the Xenomorph is a Evolutionary Path via the Black Goo and Davids Experiments upon this.  Thus if the Engineers Worshiped and saw Held the Deacon in the Mural in High Regard.... if they see DAVIDS Xenomorph, they may see this as a more Perfected Evolution of the Mural Deacon and take a interest in it.

@cuponator3000

Indeed i also think there is a chance that Synthetic Material will come into play for how we get from Davids Xenomorph to the Alien Xenomorph, it just appears to be the most easy and logical route now.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Critters5

Nov-29-2017 6:12 AM

Dave, how could the explain a plot detail like that with the Engineers if they don't speak English? Subtitles? 

ali81

Nov-29-2017 6:48 AM

wev seen it done in movies where a character who doesn't speak English, speaking in there native tongue then mid sentence blend into English. take hunt for red October. the Russian diplomatic officer is reading from a book and u see this switch. difficult to do when there are humans in the scene but when we see dialogue between engineers theres no reason they couldn't do this or stick to subtitles. I like the mystery about them and not knowing what their saying but if they are finally gna get some real screen time we need their dialogue to understand the plot 

Svanya

Nov-29-2017 6:57 AM

I wrote about this last year, was sure Ridley would go with something like the comics. I think quite a few people here have been feeling it go off in that direction for awhile too.

There is a great video on the subject in here: 

ELOISE: HALF-ANDROID, HALF-XENOMORPH.

Also, don't forget in the same comics series (Dark Horse) there is a Ripley android clone, and Jerry, a xenomorph-android who was built to spy on the Alien hives and an android (working Joe) who deviated from his programming to explore and become more human. Plenty of material for the writers to get ideas from, or probably have gotten ideas from.

P.S-Plz Ridley, no xeno-droids, thanks xx.

P.P.S- BigDave, i'm gonna feature this for ya. 

ali81

Nov-29-2017 7:13 AM

the dark horse comics succeed because comic writers are afforded more leeway when it comes to out of the box writing I think. I like the way its done with Elden in the fire and stone comics but I don't think it would work just as easily in this series. u have to take the fact David has already stated the goo is aim at fauna only and leaves flora alone. id say at this point with that statement, even an AI with organic material would be hard to mutate as only the organic matter would be affected. David will have to alter the goo in his experiments for it to be realistic enough to show an AI being fully changed for us to get the bio-mechanical xeno we all know and love. or maybe the engineers have a form of the mutagen that will affect David?

ali81

Nov-29-2017 7:15 AM

or, what about they use this other form off mutagen on Walter? he is broken and they cant get any info out of him when they return to planet 4 so the use the mutagen to restore him and then see he can be used as a weapon against David?

Critters5

Nov-29-2017 7:23 AM

Ali that's a great point, the goo would likely not mesh with non-flesh. 

ali81

Nov-29-2017 7:27 AM

critters. well it hasn't affected him in 10 years so it obviously doesn't affect synthetics in its current form so yea

Critters5

Nov-29-2017 8:40 AM

Although, they could always just say he created a modification etc. 

ali81

Nov-29-2017 8:45 AM

yea they could. theyd have to have david go into a decent description of how he did it or it would just be a lazy way of doing it imo

BigDave

Nov-29-2017 2:51 PM

@Critters5

With subtitles lol...  But if they interact with David we have to remember he can understand them, a tricky one is if they arrive at Planet 4 and how can they communicate with Walter, or if not how will they be able to tel where David is going?

But i would not put it past them just turning up with out giving no explanation to how they knew David would be at Origae-6

@Svanya

Indeed there is a wealth of ideas that we have seen explored in Comic Books, and Unused ideas from Previous movies and also Unused Concepts.  We see each movie in the Franchise has appeared to loosely use ideas that never got to be explored in previous ones.

I also missed this Topic you linked ;)

These ideas also are something maybe Dark Horse picked upon when they introduced Elden in Fire and Stone.

@ali81

Indeed we have seen David has not been infected, but the option is there for other different Synthetics to be infected, Elden from Fire and Stone and so also the Eldena concept, were Synthetic Constructs which means they was Part Organic and Part Synthetic the Walter Viral Material did show that he appeared to have some components that looked Organic or where based to look Organic.

So its something that indeed could be explored.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ali81

Nov-29-2017 3:50 PM

dave, I get what ur saying but part synthetic/ part organic still poses the question. in its current form the goo only affects fauna, the living part of the synthetic, yet the non living components would remain unaffected, how does it work? it needs to mutate or be re-engineered to affect the non organic matter within the synthetic. whether the components look organic or not isn't really a way round it. the mutagen only affects fauna so the synthetic cant be fully mutated by the current goo

Ingeniero

Dec-01-2017 6:20 AM

Great point Lilly (Svanya)

Walter may end up like Elden and the groundwork for this event may have been shown in the Walter viral material mentioning customers' DNA. 

What is this below brain made of?

If it is even a small part organic then we can expect an "Elden" type event (below) from Walter after introducing the pathogen to him.

Ingeniero

Dec-01-2017 6:52 AM

Great topic BigDave. You could not have picked a better term than "shoe-horning" in developing the xenomorph origin. 

I'll be back soon to discuss other topics. Thank you again for this.

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