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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

The Alien: Covenant, Alien: Awakening & Prometheus Movie Community

Dazzed2

Member

1

Posted Nov-12-2017 8:20 PM

I have always loved the Alien movies since they first come out when I was a child and my parents let me watch. I own all the released parts and backup on Vudu. I also love the movie Prometheus and own a Vudu copy also but until reading articles on here I had no idea it was a prequel to aliens. I only watch internet TV on Roku so I don't see many trailers or commercials anymore so I rely on the movie itself to show me if I like it. And even though I do like Prometheus I feel as an Alien prequel, as I've learned now, it dropped the ball badly. Toe nothing about that movie connected me to my alien franchise I loved so much. And now my son's watch and love all the alien movies but they won't watch Prometheus because they don't believe it's an alien movie. They needed a better connection between them even if it would have been a small short ending scene showing us something similar but not yet evoled into the xenomorphs we know now. The true alien creatures are not cooked, they are what we love and want to see. I think prequels showing how they became there is a great idea as long as you make a clear connections with the fans. I have always wondered why they look how they do when entering humans since it matched what was first found in space but when a predator was infected it looked different. This would be a great opening to show us how they was designed with human DANA and using other alien kinds hold opportunity to create other various looking aliens with different roles to play in the hive. Maybe they are more then just a queen and her servants. Also how is a queen made? Are they from the humanoids I Prometheus? Maybe all we have seen in the past was the hunters, killers that are made from people. Maybe other infected species results in strategizing aliens, or commanders if you will. Different levels and ranks in the hive almost like an army setup. I would think that an AI machine attempting to make his creation perfect would test the DNA with multiple species not just humans themselves. This leaves doors for so many new possible paths and creatures to be created. And are all colonies linked? Could there be a main home world that they all "report" to after these mission they take in space to collect people to eat and procreate? Or is it just simply that a group that blindly kills and breeds with no other agenda's? That don't seem to match some of the critically thinking, planning and skilled aliens we have met in the past that didn't just attack and kill on site but withdrew when needed , drawed in victims or killed one of there own so many could escape. That seems like intense learning, planning and strategizing. Hopefully these things mean enough to enough fans that the people in charge of the new prequel sequel will take into account. Does anyone here agree or have opinions they would like to share back about these ideas?

7 Responses to Prometheus prequel

BigDave

Nov-13-2017 4:17 PM

I think Prometheus is in part a very solid Alien Prequel, but flawed in many ways how it was portrayed, the basis and concept was Bold, but how it was Executed was flawed.

I will answer you points one by one, with what i feel is a relevant answer, where i will use the Bold to Present Actual Canon Facts, and Italic for my personal opinion/interpretations.

"nothing about that movie connected me to my alien franchise I loved so much"

On the contrary the clues are there... The Ships were Similar, so as to draw a connection, the Space Jockey Suits similar, (got the size wrong though) the clues where there to make a connection. Here are a few.

*Juggernaught/Derelict Connected Ships.

*Engineers Bio-Hazard/Space Suits connected to the Space Jockey.

*The Black-Goo Pathogen is connected to the Xenomorph, this however is not done quite as clear as it could have been done.

*Ultimately the Trilobite was to be shown as the Xenomorph DNA connection it was in essence a variation of a Face Hugger.

*The Location of LV-223 in Prometheus is very close to LV-426 in ALIEN

*The Juggernaught had Chest Busted Engineers in their Cryo-sleep pods

"They needed a better connection between them even if it would have been a small short ending scene showing us something similar but not yet evoled into the xenomorphs we know now"

Indeed this was the attempt, the Deacon was to be reminiscent to the Xenomorph, it was to allow us to see some connection but left it ambigious to how and what stage it was connected, does this Deacon evolve into the Xenomorph?  Was these Deacons around before and did they Evolve from the Xenomorph?  Does the Deacon evolve from the Xenomorph?  Or do they share a common Ancestor.

It was all left too open..  Its a shame as i feel a little bit more clues would have worked well, as Prometheus was a movie that took a lot of hard work and study, which i have done so in great detail and my conclusion was drawn to the Hammerpedes being the Precursor to the Xenomorph and Reasons for the Space Jockey Incident i came to this conclusion a long time ago..  And after i had arrived at this, RS had even then Spoon Feed in a way WHAT the Derelict/Space Jockey event was and my interpretation was very close indeed.

But alas this has all changed with Alien Covenant.

"I have always wondered why they look how they do when entering humans since it matched what was first found in space but when a predator was infected it looked different"

The Xenomorph Face Hugger incubates a Embryo that takes on traits of its Host, so this accounts for the difference with the Pred-Alien, it however maintained a similar Bi-Pedal Stance because the Predator was a Bi-Pedal Humanoid.

"This would be a great opening to show us how they was designed with human DANA and using other alien kinds hold opportunity to create other various looking aliens"

As far as the Origins of its DNA etc, this is what Prometheus had tried to show, it tried to show different outcomes of the Pathogen, the big problem sadly was that the Earlier Concepts these Mutations had more Xenomorph connections.  Where we could see a more clear link.  

"I would think that an AI machine attempting to make his creation perfect would test the DNA with multiple species not just humans themselves"

As far as different outcomes indeed this is what David had been up to with all his experiments in his work-shop these however were not shots that the Camera Examined or spent much time on or explained deeply in Alien Covenant, much to the same way the Mural, Altar and Fresco's were never referenced or explained in Prometheus.  They were just visual clues for us, for split seconds.

"Also how is a queen made?"

This is a pretty important Question, but one that maybe will not be answered, Alien there was never any Queen, we had the Xenomorph simply Mutate the Hosts into Eggs, which we can only assume would  host Face Huggers.    Maybe as Aliens kind of brought a Hive Insect aspect to the Xenomorph, maybe a Queen is Produced the same way that they are in some Insect Species, like Ants, Termites or Bees.

It simply has never been explained... my own Personnel Opinion is this.   A Xenomorph Hive or Egg Hold releases a kind of Pheromones and when a Face Hugger is Gestating inside of a Organism and it is a certain distance from a Hive, it does not detect these Pheromones and so it incubates a Drone, which then is used to turn a Host into a Royal Egg Morph, the Host is mutated into a Larger Egg, that maybe shrinks down once it has utilized the hosts DNA, where it then Produces either  a Royal Face Hugger or a actual Small Xenomorph Queen, Once a Queen has grown and starts to be able to lay Eggs, Pheromones are set off so that within a certain distance of this Queens Hive, other Face Huggers WILL-NOT Gestate a Drone but Warriors instead.

However no conclusion explanation for how a Queen would come about has been definitely explained in Movie Canon, maybe Alien Awakening could give clues to this?

Regarding the other aspects of the Hive, and different roles and types of Xenomorph, i think indeed we could see some different castes as we do with say Bees, Ants or Termites, but i would not be expecting the Xenomorph to be explored as a Organism that would go on to become Civilized and actually build/construct Ships and the like...    They appear to not be as capable of this as Humans are, but they are very intelligent if not just relying on instincts.

i know some fans would love to see the Xenomorph explored like how the TYRANIDS are in the Games Workshop Warhammer 40K Universe, but i cant see this happening and besides the Tyranids are basically based off the Xenomorph anyway...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-13-2017 4:27 PM

A lot comes down to the Evolution of the Star Beast, which is what the Original idea was, which was that a Human Group of Space Explorers discover a SOS Beacon on a Alien World, they arrive to explore this signal, and they discover a Alien Races Derelict Space Craft with the Giant Skeletal Remains of the Crew.  This Giant Alien Race had landed on this world and had investigated a Pyramid Complex that contained Alien Spores/Eggs that contained the Star-Beast Alien Organism, they attempted to take this Organism to their ship but they got infected and set off a Warning to Warn others to STAY AWAY

The Organism (Starbeast) had a Life Cycle of... Spore/Egg, Face Hugger, Chest Burster and Adult and then it Morphed Hosts into New Eggs/Spores to continue its Life-Cycle... it was indicated this Alien Organism would mature past a Hostile Juvenile Stage to eventually become Civilized having its own Culture and able to construct a Civilization.

The Giant Skeletal beings who had sent the SOS were merely another Space Traveling Race who happened to stumble upon the Ancient Alien Starbeast long gone Civilizations Eggs/Spores.

This was evolved into ALIEN were the Eggs/Spores are now part of the Alien Derelict ship, and the Giant Skeletal remains are now that of a Alien Race (Space Jockey) who had this Egg Cargo for some unknown Reason, yet Aesthetically the Space Jockey, its Ship and the Xenomorph are Genetically/Aesthetically related.

so a lot has changed/evolved... at the point of Aliens, and on wards no body ever touched upon the Mystery of the Space Jockey, the Derelict and Cargo.  But RS had came to the conclusion it was a Bio-Weapon Cargo being carried by the Derelict Ship and the Space Jockey fell prey to his own Bio-Weapon.

The notion of the Space Jockey or Xenomorph relating back to anything like the Original idea in Star Beast was, is something that may never be explored.

The ALIEN Prequel was shaping up to being a bit different than Prometheus, i will post a link to ALIEN ENGINEERS which was a Earlier Draft that Evolved to PROMETHEUS.   And also STARBEAST which was a earlier draft that evolved to ALIEN.

ALIEN ENGINEERS

I cant seem to find a Star Beast at the Moment, maybe someone else can help, but i will attempt to find one ASP.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ali81

Nov-13-2017 11:08 PM

Prometheus is NOT an alien prequel, that's why it doesn't feel like one. it wasn't meant to feel like one as RS had stated he was going in a different direction.

BigDave

Nov-14-2017 8:49 AM

I disagree, Prometheus was a Alien Prequel, only it was not intended to be a literal Prequel, where the events of Prometheus would Chronologically link directly to Alien, while giving us some insight to Questions regarding the Space Jockey and the Purpose of the Cargo, it was decided to not literally Spoon Feed the exact events to lead up to Alien, but to give us clues and leave a bit of ambiguity.

However with Alien Covenant which is in part a direct kind of Sequel to Prometheus (which is actually a aftermath of what a Literal Prometheus sequel would have been) then Alien Covenant as it is intended to be a literal prequel leading to Alien (this could change) means that it has pulled in Prometheus to become more a Alien Prequel than it was intended.

I have not yet attempted to address maybe what the Topic Title means, as a Prometheus Prequel would require a movie that covers events set before Prometheus, which could mean regarding the Weyland Company and Evolution of Synthetics, it could be the Journey of Dr Shaw and Holloway as far as the research and findings that lead to the Prometheus expedition, or even regarding Peter Weylands Agenda.

But alas this things would not be interesting on their own... and so a Prometheus Prequel would have to cover the Engineers, be it other things their culture is into, but as we are talking a Alien Franchise, a Prometheus Prequel would likely have to touch upon why the Engineers Created Mankind, and the Black Goo, which was the aim of a actual Prometheus sequel.    The other thing a Prometheus Prequel would likely have to maybe cover is the LV-223 Outbreak and what began with those Experiments.   Even the Events of the Space Jockey was originally tied into a Event connected to LV-223, before the Curve-Ball U-Turn to have David as the creator of the Xenomorph.

So Alien Covenants Plot, has pulled Prometheus into being part of a Alien Prequel, while also changing events that a actual Prometheus Prequel could have tackled....  The Space Jockey/Xenomorph are no Longer Ancient 

However this could change, as who knows how many U-Turns they make along the way.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ali81

Nov-14-2017 10:41 PM

depends on what is classed as an 'alien' prequel. if its plot is mostly centred around the creature then id agree that it is an alien prequel but the plot was more focused on who are we and the beings who created us. id say a loosely connected alien prequel, as it was described by Scott himself. if AC had come out first then id say that definitely was an alien prequel movie but Prometheus I believe was intended to move away from the creature  

Thoughts_Dreams

Nov-16-2017 12:16 PM

It had some interesting ideas but the movie wasn't too good. Good ideas, bad execution.

"And now my son's watch and love all the alien movies but they won't watch Prometheus because they don't believe it's an alien movie."

For some reason it is like a puzzle, you got to watch it many times to see how the clues are put together into the whole movie or how to put it. I agree that the clues are too vague and needed to be fleshed out more, the characters should have been done better also (which is my biggest criticism about the movie). Big Dave gave a good answer with how the Juggernaut and the Derelict look the same, and so on. Look at how the Squid looks like big facehugger even though I think that they could have designed the Squid to look closer to the original since it would have made more sense/less confusing. The Xeno and the Deacon look similar.

"They needed a better connection between them even if it would have been a small short ending scene showing us something similar but not yet evoled into the xenomorphs we know now."

Umm, there is the Deacon at the end, but I agree that they should have put more work into the clues.

"I think prequels showing how they became there is a great idea as long as you make a clear connections with the fans."

Yeah, but they have done underwhelming work this far with Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Maybe a queen is just a part of an evolution. Maybe that is further in the time-line than Scott wants to show us? I am not sure how that would be created but there are probably many paths that you could take to explain that.

"Or is it just simply that a group that blindly kills and breeds with no other agenda's?"

I think that would be better because it would be less human, and hence more frightening.

"That don't seem to match some of the critically thinking, planning and skilled aliens we have met in the past that didn't just attack and kill on site but withdrew when needed , drawed in victims or killed one of there own so many could escape."

That could be from Aliens and forward remember that they cut the power in Aliens and retreated when the guns shot. Maybe this is where that idea came from. To me it makes them more human-like and less dangerous.

There are probably people on this forum that have better ideas than I have but these are just some thoughts about it.

BigDave

Nov-16-2017 3:24 PM

Some good Points Thoughts_Dreams

Indeed Prometheus was a bit of a Puzzle, you had to watch it over and over, a lot of visual clues had only been shown for split seconds, a number of the deleted Scenes gave more answers, the Alternative Fifield and even some of the Concepts again showing a more Xenomorph Connection. (Edit... a lot of clues were via dialect of the Crew).

The Biggest Piece of the Jigsaw however was ALIEN: ENGINEERS looking at what parts of Alien Engineers made it into Prometheus but had been changed a bit, and comparing these TWO versions of such Scenes (that are related in each version) will bring about the clues that are needed.  If people go and Read Alien Engineers a few times and watch Prometheus after a few times and then read Alien Engineers again, and then read Lindeloffs Paradise Draft then they would see similarities arise, that when we apply these within context to how Alien Engineers showed them and applied them to Prometheus then Prometheus makes much more Sense.

But this is such a big investment of Time, most casual viewers would only go off Prometheus itself, were even after seeing it a number of times it can be a puzzle.   Also taking into account the loose Biblical Themes, more so the Tale of Creation, Rebellion and Fall of Man and Angels... and then taking into account the Prometheus Mythos does allow for a Picture to be painted where the Fresco then makes more sense.

@ali81

Indeed Prometheus was a loose Alien Prequel, it was not to directly connect as a literal Alien Prequel because it was not to go through the step by step events that lead to Alien Directly, at this point in time Prometheus happened in the year late 2093, and the Space Jockey Event happened about 2000 years ago give or take a few hundred (which RS had claimed).

By doing a U-Turn and making AC a more direct prequel, by having it that David creates the Xenomorph, Alien Covenant then and now brings Prometheus into a Direct Prequel to Alien too, because without David being put back together, if Dr Shaw left him to Rot or got his head only and tossed it into the Flames of the Ruins of the Prometheus Wreckage, then we can safely ASSUME the Xenomorph in Alien would never had happened.  A bitter pill to Swallow for some, but indeed it appears David will be the Xenomorph Creator and his Creation ends up on the Derelict, thus bringing Prometheus as a Direct Canon Prequel.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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