'The first version of Giger’s mural featured space explorer victims, with oxygen helmets…'
They say we see a human female in the picture and her body resembles the shape of the Derelict.
I think this mother creature is not a human being but an alien queen - a queen created by Giger:
The right arm and the right shoulder seem to cover the head of the alien creature but I'm sure we can see a queen here:
What do you think?
Other interesting features of the Alien mural:
You can discover a triangle/a pyramid in the picture as well:
'The Eye of Providence (or the all-seeing eye of God) is a symbol showing an eye often surrounded by rays of light or a glory and usually enclosed by a triangle. It represents the eye of God watching over humanity (or divine providence).'
ribs = rays
womb = glory
A worm in the eye/a worm in the womb = Holloway and Shaw:
The pilot in helmet - the chestburster has legs:
Yes, that mural was supposed to be in the derelict but they couldn't find a place for it so it was unused.
It seems that Giger used Egyptian Goddess Nut as an inspiration for the mural
Giger loved Egyptian art.
"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.
Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."
- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"
Ati Nice to know someone else saw the similarities of the female and the derelict. I mentioned that before but thought it might be a stretch. Nice pointing out all those details- I have seen that picture many times but never made some of the connections pointed out here.
Dark Nebula Indeed, I have read about Goddess Nut inspiring Giger.
I thought of the shape of the female resembling the derelict. I thought the simliarities between the female with the egg coming from the middle and the derelict containing eggs was interesting, but also thought it was a bit of a stretch.
Great comparison with Nut Dark Nebula and there is no doubt that Giger used some rendition of the Goddess Nut in his work.
Amazing analysis of Giger's image Ati. The Holloway example is epic.
Dark Nebula - Thank you for the images.
dk - 'Nice pointing out all those details'
Ingeniero - Glad you think it's interesting.
The Mural was very interesting.. i have covered this a number of times, and yes its interesting that it does look like the Egyptian Goddess Nut, quite how much Actual Egyptian Mythos played into Gigers ideas is unknown, but its interesting to speculate.
I will for now however just cover the Mural....
Indeed we see these Space Suits and while the Helmets look Humanoid Space Fair... the suits do-not... the Suits are the same as those worn by the Bald Humanoids being Face-Hugged in HR Gigers Face Hugger Concepts.
Latter Giger edited the Mural, to give us a more Space Jockey ish look, but we can see from these suits they are very similar to the LV-223 Engineers.
The Mural seems to show us that the Derelict and Xenomorph are Genetically/Aesthetically connected.
The Mural shows us these Space Suited beings are Sacrificing themselves (another member of their Race) to the Xenomorph.
The Mural seems to show Worm-like things come from the center of the Derelict shaped Mural, and these become the Eggs, this Central Point when we look at the Xenomorph/Female Figure would indicate the Womb.
This Mural was to be placed in the Egg Silo Room, above what HR Giger called Bio-Mechanical Pregnant like Bellies that Produced the Eggs.
so HR Gigers Mural to me shows, that the Ships are Connected to the Xenomorph DNA, and that Worm-like Parasites evolve inside the ships Cargo Hold into Eggs. And for some reason a Humanoid Alien Race then Participate into a Ritual Self Sacrifice to allow the Xenomorph to Procreate.
THIS MURAL and HR Gigers ideas that should have been followed, and they still can be... And these was the Basis for my way to explore the Xeno-Engineer connection in my abandoned Prometheus sequel.
The Questions with this Mural would be...
*What are the Worms, where do they come from and what process is needed for them to evolve into Eggs inside this Bio-Mechanical Egg Making Factory?
*Where did the Bio-Mechanical Machine/Ships come from, how was they Made... or GROWN as Giger put it?
*What connection does the Humanoids Have? Are they Slaves to this kind of Sacrifice, what Benefit does it have for them? Or are they actually the ones behind all this Bio-Mechanical Technology/Xeno Biology?
Answering these in context to ALIEN and then trying to tie this with what Prometheus and Alien Covenant laid out, is what i feel FOX/RS should now be doing.
PS Regarding the Chest Buster... indeed this was Gigers first idea, the so called Chicken Burster, which Alien Covenant has a Easter Egg to, in Davids Workshop.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Maybe the worms could represent the original xenomorph DNA life-form source that was later manipulated by the Engineers to make the Xeno?
This potentially could be true....
When looking at the Black Goo and then Jon Spaights Alien Engineers where we had Nano-Scarabs instead i was drawn to thinking maybe the Parasite is actually Nano-Worm like creatures, why would they look like a Goo? Well Sperm Cells are similar to tiny tadpoles but they are very tiny and semen does not look like a collection of tadpoles to the naked eye but actually a Goo.... So maybe the Black Goo could have been Space Sperm.... or similar lol
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
With a stretch of imagination, you can see Shaw's lower jaw in the mural (which is missing in David's sketches). Shaw is the one who gives birth to David's eggs. Also, I wonder if Giger was a freemason (the all-seeing eye)?
I really hope they explain more about the origin of the xenomorph DNA, how it was first discovered and where along with some Engineer culture and beliefs. Who created the Engineers? It was supposed to be the whole point of the prequels and instead Ridely has been dancing a jig around these questions in both movies.
It would be interesting to find this out.... a lot of Evolution has happened from the Origins.
Starting with Star-Beast about a Long Lost Ancient Alien Culture/Civilization who required Sacrificial Hosts to procreate their Species. This Race had died off, but in one of their Pyramids remained the Spore/Egg part of their Life-cycle that a Giant Alien Race had stumbled across and fell victim to, but they managed to set off a Warning about this Place so others would stay away.. But a Human ship interprets this as a SOS and investigates and falls Foul to the Same Star-Beast Organism. Thus the ALIEN was a Ancient and somewhat civilized Race, who had died out or left this place, but left behind there YOUNG, the Spores/Eggs that would remain Dormant until Hosts would come by so then the Organism can begin its Life-Cycle again.
This Evolved to ALIEN were these Spores are now Eggs, and the Giant Alien beings who fell foul to the Organism, was a Pilot Carrying those Eggs on his Ship. Ridley Scott latter suggesting it was a kind of Bomber and carrying Bio-Weapons. Thus the Eggs were a Bio-logical Warfare used by the Space Jockey Race, but we was never told WHY, and HOW the Eggs came to be... was they found.. like in Star-beast? or was they created by this Race. What we do see is via HR Gigers Aesthetic that the Derelict Crafts Aesthetic is similar to the Xenomorphs, the Construction appeared to be similar to the Xenomorph Hives. Both Part Machine and Part Organic... The Pilot was less so connected, but still somewhat Bio-Mechanical.
HR Giger had designed the Mural, and a number of Face Hugger Concepts, that Showed Humanoid's in Space Suits appeared to be Sacrificing themselves to Procreate the Xenomorph, his Mural is Ambiguous but does seem to suggest a connection between the Derelict Space Ship, the Xenomorph and those Eggs as far as DNA/Atheistic. It was HR Gigers intention to have these Murals placed in the Egg Silo/Cargo Hold, where the Walls of the Egg Silo/Cargo Hold had like as he put it Pregnant Bio-Mechanical Bellies that would Produce the Eggs. HR Giger also suggested the Derelict Ships were Grown.
Then we get to Prometheus, where we have the Engineers as the Space Jockeys, and indeed we see there Derelict related Ships (Juggernauts) Carry a Bio-Weapon which is stored in Urn like Vases, these contain a Black Goo Pathogen, that when it comes into contact with Life (depending how) it mutates Lifeforms into something that carries over Xenomorph DNA. We are shown via a series of Events with a Black Goo infection that Dr Shaw births the Trilobite, in effect a Xenomorph/Human Hybrid Face Hugger, which latter leads to the Deacon Chest Buster, which is similar to what we see in the Prometheus Mural. This was all to show us these Space Jockey/Engineers had conducted Experiments with the Black Goo that are related to the Xenomorph in some Capacity... Ridley Scott and Damien Lindeloff both then suggesting the Black-Goo is a Ancestor to the Xenomorph, well the Deacon is.
Prometheus was not very clear in how the Black Goo connects, as there was another Substance that was used to Sacrifice a Engineer which implies via this Mankind Eventually Evolved. Yet mankind has no Xenomorph Traits, not like how the Black Goo in the Urns/Vases worked.
But alas... Jon Spaights Alien Engineers, draft which Prometheus was based off, had the answers, instead of Sacrificial Goo, we had Nano-Scarabs that consumed a Engineer, each Nano-Scarab storing the Engineers DNA and one of these Bites a Early Primate and this Primate Evolves into a Hybrid, having Engineer DNA injected into it which is implied what leads to Mankind... Primate + Engineer DNA via Scarabs = Humans.
The Alien Engineers draft also had Urns, these were knocked over by Fifield and Scarabs escaped and attacked Fifield, one gets into his Helmet and Bites him, and we see Fifield Transforms into a Hybrid Xeno/Human with Acid Blood, he does not break down or be consumed like the Sacrificial Engineer, he is evolved like the Primate...ONLY the DNA appears to be connected to the Xenomorphs.
Thus its via Alien Engineers we can assume the Deacon Mural was a Organism, that was Sacrificed so its DNA could be used to infect Organisms and be used to experiment with and create Xenomorph related Organisms.
Alien Covenant kind of expands on this, where the Black Goo is used to infect the Environment and eventually leads to the Spores (Neomorphs) David then experimented with these and various other lifeforms and the Black Goo to create a all manner of Xeno/DNA related Organisms.
It thus appears to make more sense that the SACRIFICIAL GOO is Creation Tool that allows for Splicing of Genetic Material/DNA of One Organism with another. HOWEVER... they had changed things and tried to explain the Black Goo/Sacrificial Goo as ONE substance, and even explained to a degree how it would work, but in a way that contradicts what Prometheus shows... especially the concept works.
Alien Covenant even further making things a bit Cloudy... in how the Bombardment Scene we see the Black Goo affected the Engineers different to what we saw in Prometheus.
So who knows where the Black Goo now comes from?
My Conclusion was and is, that it is the result of exposing the Deacon in the Mural to the Sacrificial Substance, and storing the resulting Pathogen in those Urns... which leaves it open that the Deacon was a Organism the Engineers had encountered and never created, or that it was a Evolution of some Organism/Parasite related to the Deacon and Xenomorph.
Its a Question now... is this the path they will go? will we ever even know where the Black Goo came from, and what the Mural and Fresco in Prometheus meant?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Giger did a great job with that. There are so many interesting details in it about the ship, the SJ, the busted jockey and so on.
Big Dave mentioned something about sacrifice, I wonder if that was where they got their idea of the sacrificial Engineer from? I mean at the beginning of Prometheus where he sacrificed himself to create life. Replace the egg with the goo and you sort of get the idea of what I mean. Until now I have understood that picture to be that the Engineers made the Xenos and sacrificed themselves to it but maybe that was where they got the idea of the sacrificial Engineer from?
The legs or what ever to call them remind me of the Derelict and Juggernaught. Eventually these could be connected in some way because they look sort of similar in how they are shaped.
When you look at the SJ in Alien and the picture there you can see that the SJ and the pilots here are sort of connected. To me the Giger painting shows us the process of how the SJ got facehugged and eventually that they had people in their society that maybe sacrificed themselves to the Xenos.
Hopefully they can take some inspiration from this mural and use them in the next Alien movie. I bet that it would have been better than what they have given us this far at least when it comes to that (the origin of the Xeno). No android needed. :D
"Answering these in context to ALIEN and then trying to tie this with what Prometheus and Alien Covenant laid out, is what i feel FOX/RS should now be doing."
Yes it would be a lot better than both Prometheus and Alien Covenant combined if done right, I bet that. With what has been made for us this far (Prometheus and AC) I guess that we will have better fan theories than the actual movie itself, it wouldn't surprise me at least.
I would prefer if they would keep the origin of the goo a secret.
Ingeniero: Thanks for posting that picture. I never understood where they got that idea from. Giger's painting (I think that is what it is) helps me to get some kind of idea about where they got the eye-work thing from. Unfortunately it could have been handled a lot better (the Holloway worm) but at least I think that I see the connection. My guess is that they never thought about how the clues should be tied together to not make it confusing.
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