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Dark Nebula

Oct-22-2017 2:16 PM

Sources: Fire and stone/ Life and death comics by DarkHorse comics.

Prometheus 2012 film.

Engineer strength, skills, and durability.

Weyland's men dead by Engineer's single punches

Kills Ford by delivering a fatal blow to her chest and throws Jackson against the wall, breaks his back in two.

Grabs and throws a predator in far distance

Breaking predator's arm and joints

Crushing a human skull like a tomato

And steel

Engineer kills xenomorphs with bare hands

And a giant bull-like creature

Engineer weapons, armor, and durability

Large pink rifle

Engineer rifle held by human Galgo throughout the comics

Other weapons, armor, and durabilities

Engineer pressure suit withstands predator plasma cannon

And hi-tech shotgun

Gets shot by a harpoon and stabbed to the wall, rips it off.

Engineer vs Xenomorph Queen

Winner:

Still, no effect...

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

41 Responses to Engineer power

Ati

Oct-22-2017 2:21 PM

Great summary! It's time to see their full power again in a live action movie.

Lawrence of Arabia

Oct-22-2017 2:26 PM

The Space Jockey's are badass af lol

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Dark Nebula

Oct-22-2017 2:51 PM

@Ati That would indeed be awesome, fans would be satisfied. But I can only imagine the budget required.

@Lawrence of Arabia yep, the Engineer that fought predator was trained by Steven Seagal.

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

Dark Nebula

Oct-23-2017 2:06 PM

Forgot to mention that the last Engineer from Prometheus also ripped David's head off easily before attacking Weyland and his men.

Also in Alien: River of pain, if I remember correctly, the colonists inside the derelict found corpses of the xenomorph queen and the Engineer that fought and killed the queen with his bare hands. Very interesting read.

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

Dark Nebula

Dec-29-2017 6:34 AM

Read the Alien: Engineers draft by Spaihts recently for the 100th time, just noticed that the last engineer equipped himself with the bulletproof bio suit and killed the remaining xenos and humans with some kind of a weapon that fires invisible missiles.

I wonder if that inspired the engineer weapons in the fire and stone series (especially the scene with the large pink rifle in Prometheus fire and stone).

Originally the engineer weapon Galgo held was supposed to shoot black goo but they changed it to Fox's demands.

As for their ships, their ships are indestructible. The juggernaut remained mostly intact when USCSS Prometheus crashed into it at the speed of a bullet.

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

Dark Nebula

Dec-29-2017 6:54 AM

From Prometheus the complete fire and stone, a page about Galgo and the engineer weapon.

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

Dark Nebula

Jan-14-2018 5:34 PM

You're welcome, Chris.

 

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

BigDave

Jan-15-2018 7:32 AM

I missed the Topic when it was first posted....

I have to say i think the Comics kind of took the Engineers to Far, made them more like Super Man from the Planet Krypton but hey maybe thats why they was FELLED so easy on their own Home-world LOL

I think we need to go back to Alien: Engineers and then look at WHAT True Scale is all about, in Alien Engineers our Engineers were supposed to be 15ft Tall to Match the Approximate Space Jockey size in Alien. By the time of Lindeloffs Paradise the idea was prior to Shooting that these are a 9-10ft tall Race of beings.

This image shows exactly what a 15ft and 10ft Engineer would be like compared to a Human, now lets imagine if the idea was to be these sizes and lets say these Engineers are Humanoid and to Scale as far as Strength.

Then a 15ft Engineer coming into to confrontation with a Typical Man would be like a Typical Man attempting to toss around/fight a 15  Month Old Infant (which would be simple) a 10ft Engineer compared to a Man would be like a Man VS a 4.5 Year old Boy.

So from either Scale we can see a Engineer of 10-15ft would be able to push around a Human as easy as a Human would a Toddler.  In the Comics however the Scale is off the Engineers here appear to be like 8-9ft Tall which would be like a Human VS a 6-7 Year old.

So INDEED this could show the Strength of the Engineers, but even if we look at a 8-9ft Tall Engineer we can also look at them being Stronger Per Scale if we consider these beings have Genetically Engineered themselves and so are not AVERAGE Engineers like we see in Alien Covenant, but Super Engineered Solider Class.

Looking at this, then indeed a 10-15ft Engineer would deal with a Xenomorph with not much trouble and would certainly Man-Handle a Predator, but i am not sure they would defeat a Xenomorph Queen, not if we stick to Scale... 

If we however consider they are also Genetically Engineered as Stronger then a 15ft Engineer vs Xenomorph Queen would be quite a Fight, but a Engineered Super Being that is 8-9ft tall would not really stand much of a chance.

Unless we go the Super Hero Comic Book routes where our Engineers are like Super Man and the like.

 

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-15-2018 7:38 AM

As far as Technology....

I think indeed those Engineers Pressure Suits would allow them quite some Protection, i think Prometheus offered us a Realistic Look into this, the shot from the Weapon used against the Engineer, did some damage but this was Minor, it would be like getting shot by a Metal BB Gun while wearing clothing and so you would feel it, and it may have broken the skin a little but would be far from a Wound that would stop you in your tracks.

I feel again the Comic Books took this too far, and basically made the Engineers Suits like Tougher than a Tank,  i also find that ONE Engineer could lay waste to Horde of Xenomorphs that easy, like a Human dealing with Cat/Small Dog Sized Animals, a little unlikely.

As far as Weaponry goes, for such a Advanced Ancient Race the Engineers would not doubt in their History had created Weapons, and no Doubt Weapons beyond our Technological and our Imagination, so Advanced that the Predators Plasma Caster would seem redundant

Alien Engineers was interesting with the Gauntlets that would fire like Pulses of Invisible Energy at their opponents and would actually be similar to like Star Wars FORCE powers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Dark Nebula

Jan-15-2018 9:11 AM

Characters in comic books are usually depicted as more different and stronger than the ones depicted in a film, because of its easier to take a pencil and a paper and draw rather than spend millions on a 2-hour film. Hulk for example, in the films he fought opponents of similar size and lifted some larger objects. In the comics, however, if I recall correctly, he once destroyed a planet with a single punch (and an entire universe with a handclap).

Engineers in this comics were shown to have tremendous strenght, despite some size differences. Probably because they were genetically engineered for military purposes. Much like Replicants from blade runner and Neo-sapiens from exo-squad.

Gorillas for example, while standing still are 5'7" tall(little shorter than average humans), but they are like 10 times stronger than humans.

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

BigDave

Jan-15-2018 4:57 PM

Indeed i think the Errors of Scale from Prometheus and Alien Covenant, now leave us with a 8ft Tall Race and indeed Genetic Engineering is likely why these LV-223 Engineers are Superior as far as Vast Strength. Its something i have been drawn to a long time with those Engineers, and it makes Perfect Sense if these LV-223 Engineers are in effect Universal Solider/Replicants well similar in that they have been Genetically Manipulated.

I think it leaves room for RS to introduce another race of Humanoids, that are Larger than the Engineers to then match the Size of the Space Jockey, we can only hope...   Because otherwise we have to suspend disbelief in that a 8ft tall Race is sitting in the Space Jockey Seat, despite the SJ being about 12-15ft Tall.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-16-2018 4:41 PM

I love the design of the Gun, i do Question the ideas that some of those who work on the Comics come up with in regards to the Engineers/Black Goo... i think they take things a bit too far..

Spaights also did touch upon Engineer Weapons.

I feel the Comics Weapon seemed pretty fitting in how it was shown, but i totally dont like the Black Goo connection as far as sucking in DNA....  I think Spaights Force Beam Weapon is interesting.

So i feel Engineer Technology is interesting, i think these beings on LV-223 (well the Technology) would seem very odd to be so Advanced, and Create such Bio-Logical Warfare and especially knowing of the Dangers without some kind of Protection  (and i dont by Engineers being like Superman Snapping Xenomorphs like mere Birds Necks)

So we have to assume they developed some Weaponry..

I would like to Propose a Few Ideas.

POWER/FORCE WEAPONS and BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS and MELEE WEAPONS

But be more Realistic to a degree.

Power Weapons:

*Force Gauntlets/Pistols Type Weapons:  that project a Force of Energy maybe Invisible, that act as Short Range Protection, more like we use Beanbag Shot Gun Rounds/Tasers.  That can injure and force back a Foe, but can also amplify to emit a vast Force that can break bones/kill from the impact of being thrown by these weapons, so maybe some Anti-Gravity/Force kind of Weapon?

*Plasma Riffle/Pistol: so pretty much similar to Fire and Stone, some Weapon that discharges a Super-heated Plasma Projectile.  Could come in Riffle and Pistol form.

*Heavy Plasma/Laser Weapon: a Super Heavy version of above, maybe some larger ones mounted on Engineer Weapons Platforms, that unleash a much more Powerful Beam.

*Heavy Gauss/Anti Gravity Weapon: Similar to the first weapon here, but it uses the Forces to Shower down Solid Projectiles to a Target. Maybe unleashing Multiple Projectiles (similar to the Halo Needle Gun but Larger).

Melee Weapons:

*Bio-Mechanical Sword/Blade:  Made from some Hard Semi Organic, Bone Material that is Razor Sharp, maybe even powered to allow some Force/Heat to run through the Blade.  Could come in Smaller Sizes and Large.

*Thrown Weapon/Boomerang: Some kind of throwing Weapon that returns to the wielder, a bit like the Predator Discus, but maybe more Organic Looking.

*Javelin/Spear: a throwing Pole-Arm type Weapon, maybe with some kind of guidance, that can have different heads/points, where the Warhead could Stun with a Pulse Blast, or could be filled with various Bio-logical Agents... (Black Goo).

*Bio-Electrical Lash: a kind of Whip type Weapon that is Charged with a Power Source, and can be used to both Whip/Wound a Target, but also to Stun and then Entangle a Target.

*Shield: some kind of Organic/Mechanical Shield, maybe with Force Protection, that has retractable sharp blades down the sides, maybe reminiscent of the Xenomorph Queens Carapace, that could be thrown at a Target a bit like Captain America.

Biological Weapons:

*Acid Spurting Canon:  Some kind of Weapon that utilizes the Xenomorph Acid to spray on a Target.

*Pathogen/Black Goo Canon: Some weapon that either shoots Black Goo, or better still fires tiny ampoules that explode on impact and infect the Target with the Black Goo. Can also be used to be armed with other forms of Pathogenic Warfare.  Maybe Payload can be manipulated to effect a Target the Same as in Alien Covenant, as well as in Prometheus?

*Parasite Launcher: A weapon loaded with Organic Parasites, maybe like mini Octopiod/Mollusk type Organisms that attack to a Target and Infect them.

*Spore Launcher: a Weapon that can launch Spore Type Parasites like the Neomorph Spores, likely by encasing them into balls/canisters that explode on impact with a Target.

 

I guess we could see some kind of Explosive like Weapons, like Mines and Grenades that could see both Energy Weapon/Blast Types and Biological/Pathogen Types.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Feb-15-2018 8:33 AM

The human weapons didn't affect the Engineer suit until they broke it down with mutagen and then opened fire.

Ingeniero

Feb-15-2018 4:26 PM

The Engineer had his nose ripped off and got the queen's tail through the back and out the chest but was still able to overwhelm her. Pretty tough chap. Great captures Dark Nebula.

BigDave

Feb-16-2018 5:32 AM

I am always skeptical of Comic interpretations as they can exaggerate things, but as far as Comic Canon, indeed the Engineers seem to be very powerful for their size.

Prometheus offers us something different though, it appears the Shotgun Blast Wounded the Engineer, or at least Damaged his Bio-Mechanical Suit.   I think from this we could assume that 20-30 rounds from a Pulse Riffle would make short work of a Engineer.

We see there suits can explode from inside, or maybe suffer damage from outside, (Dead Engineers) also the Deacon was able to Tear Itself free from this suit.... unless we assume breaking out is much easier than getting in.

The Engineer appeared to struggle with the Trilobite and so we have to assume a Queen would prove to be more of a tougher opponents...  HOWEVER... we have to assume the Engineer suffered some wounds from the Crash (theatrical cut) and so he may not have been at 100% when faced with and overpowered by the Trilobite.

The Engineer was able to Toss/Push around the Humans it attacked in Prometheus as easy as a 180lb man would a 12-16b animal/baby.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Dark Nebula

Feb-16-2018 6:48 AM

The creatures affected by the black goo were really strong, one hammerpede was capable of snapping human arm like a tree stick. The last Engineer was subdued by trilobite's tentacles by surprise because he was targeting Shaw, still, the trilobite had some trouble trying to impregnate the Engineer.

But still, put somebody else in that situation, for example, the Yautja and the results are the same.

This reminded me of an alternate ending of a Toho film from 1965 called Frankenstein vs Baragon. In it, a giant Frankenstein beats the living shit out of Baragon with his bare hands, and he is later defeated by a large octopus. Why? Because he couldn't do jackshit against  8 powerful tentacles.

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

BigDave

Feb-17-2018 5:26 PM

Thats certainly a good point... maybe the Black Goo increases a Organisms Agression and Strength for sure, and so the Trillobite could be stronger than we think for its size.. "the trilobite had some trouble trying to impregnate the Engineer." Certainly looked it, it looked like a Stalemate but then the Engineer was getting the short end of the stick...  i ponder in desperation did he BITE the Trilobite, and this results in Acid Burn and changed the course of the Battle in the Trilobites Favor, i would be willing to bet this is what the Full Scene that we have yet to see would have shown us.

I think its a nice point to, because indeed we have to wonder if those LV-223 Engineers had been Genetically Engineering themselves with something that lead to  a Hubris of creating something related to the Xenomorph.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Feb-21-2018 6:47 AM

That looks interesting, I wonder how much it would take to kill an Engineer if you translate that to a movie. According to this comic it seems that it takes a lot but it would be boring if they would do them like supermen. Much of the time comics can not be taken as the official version.

BigDave

Feb-21-2018 4:31 PM

I think certainly the Engineers should be more Powerful but i agree we dont need to see no Super Humanoids from the Planet Krypton ;)

Maybe that explains the Planet 4 Engineers? As in the Superman Universe back on their Homeworld the Race from Krypton are no better/stronger than Humans LOL

I think the Engineers have to be about 2-3X Stronger, certainly twice... and then the LV-223 Engineers need to be revealed as Genetically Engineered Engineers.

So a Typical Engineer vs a Human would be like a Typical Adult Human vs a 9-11 year old....   and a LV-223 Engineer vs a Human like a Average Adult Human vs a 2-3 year old.

Then as far as the LV-223 Engineers Suits indeed they should offer a great deal of Protection, but not be completely UN-penetrable.  But i would be up for them having some kind of Shield Technology.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Chris

Feb-21-2018 4:57 PM

Great topic, I'm featuring this!

ali81

Feb-25-2018 3:39 AM

dark nebula

brilliant topic. nice n original. I love the sources u use. fire and stone was awesome and portrays the engineers exactly the way I believe they should be. strong badass beings who take no shit and are a match for anything even hand to hand including the xeno. RS himself even stated the engineers are an evil highly aggressive species yet they look like pussies ur granny could beat up. iv got the hard back fire and stone book and I couldn't put it down. some movie directors could learn a thing or 2 from the people involved in putting it together.

and river of pain. WAW. best alien book iv ever read. love the whole trilogy but the scene u mention, inside the derelict when newts mum and dad go in had my imagination spinning out of control asking what happened? I so want to see something like that on the big screen. an engineer juggernaught becomes infested and the engineers have to deal with them sounds awesome to me. if we don't get a straight up engineers v xenomorph scene done properly by the end of the prequels, someone take Ridley out into the woods and put him down as u would an old dog. put him and the rest of us out our misery.   

Dark Nebula

Feb-26-2018 3:42 PM

If we don't complain a lot and make the studio change their minds, we would get what we want. Originally Prometheus was supposed to be a direct prequel to Alien, with humans vs xenomorphs vs engineers, but the studio came in and wanted to dial away from alien and focus more on the engineers. The fan base was divided and each has its own expectations. 

Prometheus 2 was supposed to focus more on engineers, but because of the mixed fan reaction of Prometheus, and a lot of people compared the film with Jon Spaiht's version of the script and said how much it would have been a better film if they went with that script, this I think (and that alien 5 hype) caused the studio and Ridley to realize people wanted an alien film with xenomorphs.

Ridley said if I remember correctly, that the AC sequel will be the war of the worlds type of thing. Which I think would be humans vs xenomorphs vs engineers. David unleashing his final creation and Engineers unleashing their 10+ foot genetically engineered versions of themselves into action (SJ size).

This I can sorta imagine like from a CGI movie Resident evil damnation, a battle between humans, lickers, and tyrants.

Xenomorphs=Lickers.

Engineers=Tyrants

VIDEO (Tyrant vs Lickers and humans) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MzsYTxX2IQ&feature=youtu.be

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

BigDave

Feb-26-2018 4:31 PM

Indeed RS did kind of say he would be heading for a War of the Worlds...

I think this is kind of his ambition, so that the prequels open up this kind of Scenario... i am not sure the sequel would be quite this, but then RS had mentioned that 3-4 Parties would be arriving which by arriving i think we can rule out David, Colonist and Xenomorphs.

So 3-4 additional arriving parties could be interesting, but then maybe RS also meaning that it would be about 3-4 parties total and not actually 3-4 that are at Origae-6 after David arrives but 3-4 parties that end up at Origae-6 that are NOT there as of the end of Alien Covenant.

I think a eventual War of the Worlds sounds interesting but would surely conflict the events of ALIENS on wards.... which is what has got me thinking before..

IS Ridley Scott Pondering Rebooting ALIENS on-wards?  we have to remember Alien is 17 years odd after Alien Covenant, David will not arrive at Origae-6 until 10 years prior to Alien and we can safely assume Origae-6 is NO WHERE near LV-426

So when is all said and done... the connecting movie to ALIEN could take place within what 2-5 years prior to ALIEN as far as how long the Derelict has been there..

so any massive War of the Worlds, the company knows about LV-223, Origae-6 and Planet 4 from Davids Advent Message... In-continuity with the Alien Franchise..

would not be a problem if Aliens on wards DID NOT HAPPEN

If this was a idea, i dont think it would be a good one as removing Aliens from Canon would upset at least 50% of the Fanbase maybe much much more..... and i doubt Disney would do that.

More Chance Disney would Re-boot the Prequels if i am honest.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

V I N E T I C U M

Mar-01-2018 9:46 AM

A special topic


A special topic Dark Nebula.
Interesting to deal with the theme of engineers and their culture, I am fascinated by their bare-handed combat without any kind of weapons.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

BigDave

Mar-01-2018 4:06 PM

I think the way things have set up as far as the movies go, shows us the Engineers are FAR from Super Human...  they have been reduced from Concept (15ft Alien Humanoids) to a 6-7.5ft tall Humanoid Race, that comprise of Males, Females and Children.

I think we can assume these beings are stronger than a Human, but certainly by no means FAR more Stronger, i think a Planet 4 Engineer vs Predator in Hand-to-Hand Combat with no Weapons or Weapons would be a even battle.

I think what Alien Covenant introduces us to is these Engineers could be very very Ancient and have Evolved themselves Technologically and Genetically to the point of the FAR Stronger LV-223 Variety..... which may have came at a Great Hubris.

And so the Engineers maybe turned they backs on the ways of their past...  knowing that with greater Technological Power and Knowledge came a Great Responsibility that they just was not ready for.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Dark Nebula

Mar-01-2018 4:56 PM

The Engineer height was reduced to a more manageable height, because it would be too complicated to have a 15-foot tall albino walking around.

In star trek, for example, there are a lot of humanoid species same size as humans but are much stronger (Romulans for example).

The planet 4 Engineers are probably 6-8 feet tall and I'm guessing are stronger than humans (not as strong as LV-223 ones). But the LV-223 Engineers are a completely different story. 

From the film and the comics, it's not only their great strength but also the barehanded combat and the focuses on the knowledge of weak body spots. 

In Prometheus the last engineer killed Ford by delivering a fatal blow to her chest, crushing her sternum and sending her flying backward, she died instantly. 

He also threw Jackson against the wall that he broke his spine in two instantly.

In comics, the engineer killed a bunch of xenomorphs with his bare hands, (by the looks of their bodies) either by snapping their necks or backs because there were no holes in their bodies (we know what happens when xenomorph is wounded). In the battle between the engineer and predator, not only was the engineer too strong, during the fight, he was also targeting predator's joints, and thus weakening and enabling the predator to fight.

The same thing in Blade runner 2049, not only are replicants much stronger than humans, their fighting style is fast, precise and also focuses on the knowledge of weak body spots.

My jaw dropped in the cinema when some scavenger attacked officer K, and K just grabbed him, lifted him up and broke his back like Bane did to Batman.

 

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

dk

Mar-01-2018 5:21 PM

Dark Nebula Been a long time since playing RE 2, but yes, the lickers and Tyrant definitely remind me of the Protomorph and a mean Engineer.

BigDave

Mar-02-2018 3:47 PM

Certainly.. they had revised the Engineers to 9-10 feet tall at the time of working on Prometheus...  This obviously changed once again during Production most likely.  But some elements seem to keep in scale with the Planned 9-10ft tall Race.

The Engineer Head a Perfect Example the scale of the Head would be the Scale of a 9-10ft tall Humanoid.

It really is a shame that RS prefers to tackle things more Practical at times, even when its necessary to maybe use some Trickery.  The Lord of the Rings, The Hobit and even Game of Throwns have shown you can pull off making actors appear taller or smaller compared to their counterparts.

And so pulling of a 8-9ft Engineer/Space Jockey would not have been to hard...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

Mar-03-2018 3:05 AM

Well you know what would be really powerful? Engineers in Engineer power-loaders...

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