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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

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Ingeniero

Member

277

Posted Oct-18-2017 9:01 PM

Royal Engineer

In the first pages of the Prometheus: Art of the Film, the Engineer and the Beast beside him show resemblance to some of the aspects we have discussed. Beginning with the Engineer below, I enhanced a scan to bring out the tall boots, pants, and vest the Engineer is wearing.

I believe the five ridges across the back of the kneeling beast are the Engineer's fingers as if the organism is an extension of the Engineer's will. The clothing looks like a Royal dress similar to a guard or riding boots. This Engineer and beast are part of the mural in the urns room in Prometheus so it appears that David has reconstituted something in his organisms that was thriving before, earlier in Engineer history.

The Egg and Hands

The organism shows not only the lateral ridges across the arms that David has written much of in his notes but also the ovomorph used to house facehuggers indefinitely.

 

30 Responses to Royal Engineer

dk

Oct-18-2017 9:06 PM

Wow- I never noticed the 5 riges before and possibly being fingers. Nice work as always!

Ingeniero

Oct-18-2017 9:09 PM

Thank you dk

daliens

Oct-19-2017 1:08 AM

To me, that creature seems closely related to the xenomorph. In the picture above we can see similarities on the shoulder, arm, spin on the elbow and fingers between the two. Those five ridges remind me of the xenomorph's ribcage.

The engineers' pressure suit seems to be inspired by that morphology as well.

I hope we'll see more of that creature in the next film.

The picture is of the Big Chap from Kotobukiya and I could not upload it properly (vertically).

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

daliens

Oct-19-2017 1:20 AM

The left hand of that submissive creature is similar to the ones holding the ovomorph.

Is it possible that we are looking at an alien queen, in a sense of the one who created the eggs? Some extinct creature from the engineers' mythology, the true origin of the xenomorph? Did the engineers do reverse engineering only, as David, recreating a beast that existed in their mythical beginning?

I would like that path to be explored in one film.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

drucea

Oct-19-2017 8:16 AM

Thanks for putting up these lightened images.  I've never really looked into much of the detail of these characters until now.  After seeing these, I'm completely convinced the xenomorph was either derived from the DNA of this creature or was evolved from it.  Aside from the points on the elbows like the xenomorph, has anyone noticed that the beaked creature almost has "double fingers" or something like that?  Definitely looks like two sets of nails/claws on each finger, and each looks like it might even have two sets of bones running through them.  The fingers holding the ovomorph are also definitely the hands of the beaked creature, judging by the double finger/claws thing.  Lastly, I've always wondered why the xenomorph hands always had fingers connecting.  I think the beaked creature DNA mixed with human-ish DNA might allow the beaked creatures fingers to evolve more into human like fingers, just remaining somewhat connected.  Sorry for the long post, I'm kind of thinking out loud, or through the keyboard.

BigDave

Oct-19-2017 8:19 AM

Thats a interesting new take on it Ingeniero indeed it does look like Riding Boots or indeed Long Boots as worn by Military/Naval leaders in our History.

The Digits on the Creatures back again a interesting idea, to hint that the creature is a extension of the Engineer, that could certainly be the case.

These Fresco's were one of the KEY important things for me in Prometheus, its a question of DID they actually mean anything, or were they simply just added because they are kind of cool and kind of would give a bit of Xeno DNA to the movie?

It appeared to be a massive clue to me, but the movie was so ambiguous that we can maybe read into things too much and also who knows what connection IF ANY there is now with the WAY FOX are re-writing the Lore a little.

To me i thought and would still like to think these Fresco's are a connection between the Engineers and some Creature that is related to the Xenomorph, i feel the Mural also fits with this and the Black Goo also has to be linked with the Mural and Fresco's

How this connects, is anyone's guess and if it NOW connects or no longer does, or if it EVER did is anyone's guess.

It could be taken as though the Creature is being Subjugated by the Engineer as the creature has a submissive stance, but to me it also has a Fetal Position, indicating it is Born/New.

Just as in these concepts...

Thats how i saw the Creatures Posture...

As for the whole Fresco, some thought it was very much the GOD and ADAM from the  Sistine Chapel, which it could be as it would mean the Engineer is the Creator of the Creature as God is with Adam, but the poses look different to me, the Engineer looks to be in suffering and we have the Scar on the Engineer that looks very similar to what Dr Shaw had after she had the Trilobite removed via C-Section.

Also if this links to the Mural, the Fresco creature does not quite look like the Deacon in the Mural.

My interpretation of the Fresco, is that it looks a lot like this PROMETHEUS PUNISHMENT Fresco. Which i made this comparison a while ago.

Prometheus/Engineers Head are the same pose, the Legs similar too and where the Eagle is pecking at Prometheus Liver we see the Scar on the Engineer.

Looking back at the Fetal Pose of the Creature and those same pose by the Deacon New Born Concepts.... i believe the Engineers or a Engineer was Punished by the Gods for Stealing/Misusing the Fire/Knowledge or maybe Sacrificial Goo.  Or something that connects to similar to Prometheus antics in the Greek Mythos.

And he/they was Punished by something that lead to that creature in the Mural....   I believed that this did not completely destroy those Engineers.

But actually it was seen as a Sign to them, as it actually gave them a way to Give Birth to New Life...  so they actually saw the results of the Punishment as a Revelation.

I believe they then used the Sacrificial Goo to experiment on this Creature and after many experiments they finally Created the Deacon, and they Held this Creature in high Regard as Perfection.

They then chose to Worship it, and use its DNA to Evolve Life rather than their own Engineer DNA... Hence those Urns..  "Sometimes to Create One Must Destroy"

And so to replace and evolve Life into Life that now has this more Perfect DNA...

Thats just my Two Cents... which i feel parts of Alien Covenant add to, as i feel the Planet 4 Purpose was to collect Sacrifices, to be broken down into Material Stored into Urns and dropped onto worlds to Evolve them as a more Advanced and More Effective means than the Ancient individual Sacrifices (Prometheus Prologue)

Thus gives good reason for why those Engineers on Paradise did not fear the incoming Juggernaught at First, because the return of these ships means a Sacrifice would be chosen and then Immortalized in Stone as one of the Statues in the Courtyard.

There are holes to this theory though.... One being the revelation that Planet 4/Paradise actually had more Juggernauts Docked.. But this was never in the Theatrical Cut and also the admission of more Ships kind of adds to some Plot Holes as to why the Hell David was stuck on Paradise and needed to attract a Human Ship.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Oct-19-2017 8:40 AM

@drucea

Indeed thats the same observation i made 5 years ago...

some things to consider...

A) This is on of HR Gigers Earlier Facehugger Concepts, it appears in the Mural in Prometheus at bottom left.  This Face Hugger has a beaked like resemblance.  Note also the Bald Headed Humanoid who has a suit that is not to dissimilar to the Engineer in Prometheus.

B) This is Dan O'Bannons sketch for the Starbreast (Story/Draft that Alien Evolved from) and this design was O'Bannons idea, which he changed his mind when he came across HR Gigers Work, which he showed to Ridley Scott and RS said thats IT, not that O'Bannons Alien Creature is not too dissimilar to the Prometheus Fresco or even HR Gigers other Face Hugger concept.

C) Is the Egg/Spore room from Starbeast, this had a Mural in it and is very like the Mural Room in Prometheus, we can see how Prometheus may have taken some ideas from the Starbeast Sacrifice Room. Note the Altar has under it objects that look like the Eggs, not that the Sacrificial Creature is Basic, but it could look like a Ant with Mandibles or a Beak, you could even make comparisons with O'Bannons Creature.

Finally also coming from this creature is a Chest Buster that is very Octopoid like and looks similar to the Adult Trilobite in Prometheus.

Thats not to say any of this connects, its just i can see similarities and indeed its these kind of connections i was going to explore with my Prometheus 2 draft, that would have been explained in my 3rd but i abandoned them a few years ago as my draft mainly covered the Seeds of the Weyland-Yutani Merger, with a smaller portion that followed David and Shaw and the Engineers...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Oct-19-2017 11:34 AM

You are most welcome drucea.

"After seeing these, I'm completely convinced the xenomorph was either derived from the DNA of this creature or was evolved from it.  Aside from the points on the elbows like the xenomorph, has anyone noticed that the beaked creature almost has "double fingers" or something like that?"

Below is an image of the xenomorph hand that looks very similar to the hands holding the egg above.

The "beak" on the creature that we see in the mural may be tendrils like the example shown in David's drawing below further supporting a theory of revival (by David) in regards to the sleeping horror of the xenomorph.

 

Ingeniero

Oct-19-2017 11:34 AM

Thank you for the A,B,and C sketches BigDave. Especially the Starbeast...great historical concept reference.

The Prometheus punishment is also a very great point and could support other Engineers or their superiors taking action against the Engineers on LV-223 or elsewhere in the past and the revelation that comes with that.

There was obviously a disagreement that led to the death of the LV-223 Engineers and the mural may be a representation of the gifts of the mutagen and/or warning.

"Thus gives good reason for why those Engineers on Paradise did not fear the incoming Juggernaught at First, because the return of these ships means a Sacrifice would be chosen and then Immortalized in Stone as one of the Statues in the Courtyard.

There are holes to this theory though.... One being the revelation that Planet 4/Paradise actually had more Juggernauts Docked.. But this was never in the Theatrical Cut and also the admission of more Ships kind of adds to some Plot Holes as to why the Hell David was stuck on Paradise and needed to attract a Human Ship."

David may not have been stuck at all BigDave but could have been waiting on his "flock" to further experiment on. 

Cerulean Blue

Oct-19-2017 12:31 PM

@ Ingeniero - I agree with you 100%!  The Fresco in the Ampule Room has got to have more going on, than it just looks cool?  The Mural has to have some kind of importance, as well!!  Great Post!!

Ingeniero

Oct-19-2017 1:39 PM

Thank you Cerulean Blue. Below is an enhanced, wider version of the mural that includes the section now visible with the facehuggers and Engineers BigDave and drucea were referring to above.

Ati

Oct-19-2017 4:05 PM

daliens - Here you are:

Ati

Oct-19-2017 4:11 PM

Ingeniero - It is an interesting and informative topic, I like it very much.

'I believe the five ridges across the back of the kneeling beast are the Engineer's fingers as if the organism is an extension of the Engineer's will.' - Exciting thought.

daliens

Oct-19-2017 11:30 PM

 Ati thanks.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

daliens

Oct-20-2017 1:23 AM

Just a thought... What if the beaked creature is an alien like the ones from the original O'Bannon script? We saw Ridley Scott used in the prequels a lot of materials from the original script / concept art that were abandoned in the making of Alien 1979 for various reasons. 

In Dan’s original conception the Alien race had three entirely different stages of its life-cycle,” Ron Cobb explained when talking of the purpose of the pyramid. The Alien eggs are tended to “by the third stage adults and housed in a lower chamber of the breeding temple. When ready to hatch, the egg is placed in the middle of a sacrificial stone and a lower animal, the equivalent of an alien cow, is then led on to the stone. Sensing the warmth, the facehugger springs out, attaches itself to the animal and deposits a foetus into the stomach.” At some point in the planetoid’s history, a “cataclysm causes the extermination of the adults … leaving no one to tend and nurture the young. But in a dark lower chamber of the breeding temple a large number of eggs lie dormant, waiting to sense something warm …”

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Ingeniero

Oct-20-2017 7:15 AM

Thank you Ati for setting daliens image upright.

"Some extinct creature from the engineers' mythology, the true origin of the xenomorph?"

Also, thank you for the image daliens and I agree with what you wrote above and I believe the mural shows an event. The throwback to the original concepts is very exciting. 

Early Script

"Hill and Giler added some substantial elements to the story, however, including the android character Ash which O'Bannon felt was an unnecessary subplot"

Alien Anthology

An early script is here.

It also looks like O'Bannon wasn't really excited about the budding AI angle of the story.

What impressed me in the early script (link above) was how many planets there were (see below) in the map as of 2087. The first definitive measurement of an exoplanet was in 1992 and the script above is from 1976.

Cerulean Blue

Oct-20-2017 7:33 AM

@Ingeniero - Thank-you for the link to the Starbeast script!  I have not read it since 2012, just before I saw Prometheus.  I will read it again, when I have some more time to do so.  Most important to me is the synopsis I just re-read, & how Dan O'Bannon spoke of the coccooning/morphing ability of the creature, NOT A QUEEN!!!  YES!!!

Ingeniero

Oct-20-2017 7:48 AM

I was skimming through most of it and will go back and read the script.

That should help explain a lot Cerulean Blue and would definitely tie to the deleted scene with Dallas and Brett from Alien.

Cerulean Blue

Oct-20-2017 7:55 AM

Great work again Ingeniero!!

sherris

Oct-20-2017 8:09 AM

Ingenerio -

Thank you so much. This is my most interesting aspect of the whole franchise. You delivered on your promise ;)

I think it is the bird faced creatures hands holding the egg. Same fingers.

I think the Bird Faced Creature had some involvement in the first Xeno egg.

When the original early script started "This is the blood of our lord...." i assumed it was the pathogen which some being has created the bird creature giving it his own blood. So the Bird Faced creature carries the true blood of the lord. Which is the next level of God we may come accross. The "pure" pathogen comes from sacrifice of the Bird creature. Then it is diluted massively to create the Pathogen

Just a thought i had once....

many more...

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

Ingeniero

Oct-20-2017 8:23 AM

You are most welcome sherris.

Thank you for recommending Prometheus: Art of the Film and referring to these images before. 

I took it that way too in regards to the origin of the mutagen and eventually the eggs' history.

Cerulean Blue

Oct-20-2017 9:08 AM

This past week on Jeopardy an answer was in reference to science recently announcing the chicken had come before the egg......I suppose this holds true for Alien, as well!!  HAHA!!

drucea

Oct-20-2017 9:38 AM

Wow, a lot of new info I need to go over while I'm at work lol.  But real quick,

Ingeniero, "The "beak" on the creature that we see in the mural may be tendrils like the example shown in David's drawing below further supporting a theory of revival (by David) in regards to the sleeping horror of the xenomorph."

The tendrils and reference to "the sleeping horror of the xenomorph" instantly popped Cthulu into my mind lol.  Especially with the David drawing you posted.

BigDave

Oct-20-2017 9:38 AM

"David may not have been stuck at all BigDave but could have been waiting on his "flock" to further experiment on. "

He certainly needed more sheep to experiment on, we can only assume all the Engineers had been exhausted and he needed new Hosts or the Humans proved to be the more Perfect Choice for his Experiments.

A thing to consider is Dr Shaws Reaction to stopping the Juggernaught "if we dont stop it there wont be any home to go back to"

So David could have gone to Earth and Bombarded it.... but then i think David does need more Fresh Bodies who are uneffected to continue his works... i wonder if the sequel would touch upon if Paradise/Planet 4 actually had Ships that David could use and explain why he did not or could not do soo.  I know the Novel touched upon it, but its a case of as far as the Movie Franchise goes. Was the Juggernaught that David had taken from LV-223 and that Docking Ship the only Engineer Ships or not?

It will be interesting to find out if this is followed or touched upon in the next movie.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Oct-20-2017 9:44 AM

As far as the connection to Star Beast and its Plot, indeed it would be interesting if they follow some aspects of this, but its a case of how Literal they follow it... if indeed they do...

Starbeast indeed paints the Giant Race discovered by the Humans as being another Race who fell victim to the Star Beast Alien, and that the Alien had a History and Culture to a degree behind it.

HR Giger had some vision as far as his works on the project, and a lot of his works and comments pointed towards the Derelict and Xenomorph to be connected, and the Ships are Grown and they Produce the Eggs... His Mural seems to show us this connection and that a Humanoid Race Self Sacrifice themselves to the Procreation of the ALIEN Species.

The Ancient Astronaut and Creators Plot is also interesting and it would be interesting to see if this is further explored in sequels.

Ridley Scott had spent a lot of time referring the Engineers to Fallen Angels and so its a case of is this still the case and how exactly this can link to the Plot of Fallen Angels/Demons.  There is a lot of Philosophy behind this Question... which indeed does link heavy to Davids Plot and Agenda.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Oct-20-2017 9:49 AM

The image of the Star System explored by Mankind as far as O'Bannon

HERE

Is indeed interesting, but indeed Prometheus has opened us up to a much larger Universe...   RS had pondered if these beings had created life elsewhere and also that Mankind may not be the only Humanoid Civilization in our Galaxy

Well Prometheus opened this up much further because the Engineers Holo-Maps had other Galaxies, which means they could not only and have not only traveled THOUSANDS or HUNDREDS of thousands of Light Years but they are aware of and can/have visited places MILLIONS of Light Years from Earth.

Earth ==> LV-426/223 or even to Planet 4/Paradise never mind Origae-6 are all but a drop in the Ocean of the Potential for the Boundaries of Space the Engineers are aware of.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

daliens

Oct-20-2017 10:18 AM

Thanks Ingeniero.

How I would like that the “cataclysm causing the extermination of the adults … leaving no one to tend and nurture the young. But in a dark lower chamber of the breeding temple a large number of eggs lie dormant, waiting to sense something warm …”, that cataclysm to be the war of the worlds Ridley Scott mentioned for the next film. It would be a fantastic closing of the gap. How extraordinary if David takes the Covenant to the home world of the beaked creature.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

sherris

Oct-20-2017 1:11 PM

Davids time on the planet depends on:

Did he have a role in the Solar Flare incident? With another being, WY or he had a weapon that could cause seemingly that incident.

Did MU TH UR give a false response for the reason of the crash.

Did WY send a colony ship to fly relatively near Planet 4 in space terms so that an intricate plan would land David on The Covenant.

If this sounds silly, the opposite, it was a random event.

Which just happens right next to a perfect planet, calling with a human voice to a Planet that just happens to be the one, David, Weylands son has been inhabiting for ten years. At a time where he has Facehugger embryos which fit exactly into the covenant storage.

For me since David went online he has being acting out a most intricate plan to become who he wants to be.... ??

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

Ingeniero

Oct-20-2017 7:08 PM

I believe the answers to your questions below are all yes sherris.

"Did he have a role in the Solar Flare incident? With another being, WY or he had a weapon that could cause seemingly that incident.

Did MU TH UR give a false response for the reason of the crash.

Did WY send a colony ship to fly relatively near Planet 4 in space terms so that an intricate plan would land David on The Covenant."

I believe an Engineer weapon in response to the first question.

BigDave

Oct-21-2017 7:28 AM

Its interesting to ponder such things... but i think a lot of it has to do with plain Lazy Writing and Shoe-Horning in Plot Devices... everything just happened to be too much of a Coincidence.

I just hope the writing improves for the Sequel... But to me it seems pretty straight forwards as far as the Set Up.

David goes to Origae-6 he covers his tracks from the events of AC, so that he can come up with a elaborate scheme to explain the missing crew etc to the other Colonist.   He uses these to began setting up the colony on Origae-6.  I would assume he needs their help to build the colony as far as setting it partially up.

Then David will unleash his Agenda to use these Colonist as Hosts for his Creations...

He Lures in a Company Ship, and maybe the company send in another ship who will not know of any Agenda and assume they are arriving at the Origae-6 Covenant colony.

We get a whole replay of a Aliens kind of Flick, Colonist, Eggs, Xenomorphs and the Company/Military.

While this is happening, we see Engineers return to Planet 4/Paradise some 8-9 years after the events of Alien Covenant and they discover the destruction left behind and want to find who is responsible.

They discover Walter and somehow from Walter they determine the culprit David is heading to Origae-6 and so off goes these Engineers to Origae-6

They arrive and Face off against the Company and Xenomorphs, at the end the company force is destroyed, David maybe too? who knows.. The Engineers then are very interested in the Organism David has Created.

They then either take some of Davids Eggs and head to LV-223 to further the experiments, or they take David to LV-223 where he can help them to further create and improve the Bio-Weapon.

I think this would be where a 3rd movie would take place, on or around LV-223 as unless its lazy writing they have to show us HOW, WHY and WHEN a Engineer Ship happens to be within the LV-223/426 system with a Cargo of Eggs.

I think ultimately they will go the route that not only are the WY company very interested in Davids Creation but the Engineers or who are above the Engineers are also interested... and they become victims of this pursuit.

Much like the W-Y Company etc does in the following Alien Franchise movies.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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