I know that some members of the site find strange and surprising the possibility that David killed and reanimated some Engineers. In one of my previous topics I had shared some lines by David claiming that he can do that.
In one of the comments by concept artist Matt Hatton I have found something more bizarre regarding Elizabeth Shaw's fate.
Hatton: 'It wasn't just adults that David 'explored'. Here's a study of an Engineer child. The inference is, what did he do to get the musculature and then skeleton study? Yeesh!...'
--------: '...it's clear, and these are that much more unsettling when we see renderings of the Engineer children... diabolical.'
Hatton: 'But here's the zinger. If he's already killed everyone in the metropolis, he might be reviving them (we saw this in the previous film) or cultivating them specifically for his 'work'! Same with the different 'conflicting' drawings of Shaw. They could be different Shaws, or the same Shaw revived and reconstructed to be pulled apart again. Or maybe even worse...'
--------: "...reconstructed to be pulled apart again"... would mean her fate was even worse than we've seen or imagined... treading into some unspeakable places, where even my imagination was afraid to go!'
Do you know why these lines can be so important?
If Hatton confirms that it is possible that we see a Shaw clone in Alien Covenant, it can't be stated that Elizabeth is dead. In other words, the character can be brought back, Shaw might return in the next Alien movie.
For the full comment section, visit Hatton's instagram page:
David conquered death maybe? Or, he learned from what the Engineers had started in that manner possibly. Or both! It seems that David was able to do much more on Planet 4 than I initially thought. More than I thought possible, at least.
He is on more of a God level than I figured they would go. Weyland really created a monster!
Not a map, an invitation
It is also kind of funny that if the Engineers knew of how to bring back the dead (in any capacity), then Weyland going to find them JUST to be granted more life was actually a good idea! It was a fool's quest, but it was also, like, true.
Not a map, an invitation
Thank you Ati for these confirmations, very insightful and is in line with what we saw in Prometheus/A:C!
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."
cuponator3000 - 'It is also kind of funny that if the Engineers knew of how to bring back the dead (in any capacity), then Weyland going to find them JUST to be granted more life was actually a good idea! It was a fool's quest, but it was also, like, true.'
Brilliant point! You may hit the target. These are connected.
Lawrence of Arabia - Do you remember the time when we were talking about the possibility that the drawings by David show different Elizabeth clones?
The return of Shaw could work, and not obstruct the philosophy of Alien Covenant. However, would the return obstruct the story of Awakening?
I feel like Shaw is gone for good. They showed her dissected body laying out in his workshop. Other than the possibility of cloning, which didn't seem likely given the resources available to David on Planet 4, Shaw looked a bit too pulled apart to be put back together and be revived in any useful sense.
The black goo may have certain properties that can reanimate a fresh corpse or something that is still completely intact, but in the normal black goo fashion, whatever is reanimated should begin to mutate after the goo gets into the blood and DNA.
drucea - 'They showed her dissected body laying out in his workshop.'
A clone? :)
'Other than the possibility of cloning, which didn't seem likely given the resources available to David'
We don't know much about the resources available to David. :)
He created eggs, some monsters, etc. The creation of those doesn't need resources? :)
I just wanted to say that they can bring back Elizabeth Shaw if they want. And this idea is based on Hatton's words.
A thought about Elizabeth Shaw's return in Covenant 2:
It would be interesting to see the result of a vote trying to find out how many members/readers would like to see Shaw's return in the Alien Covenant sequel.
The problem is, going only by the movie, there was no evidence or suggestion of Shaw being cloned- at least from what I saw. I know there were drawings and such, but that doesn't seem to suggest she was cloned.
dk - 'there was no evidence or suggestion of Shaw being cloned'
Hatton writes the opposite:
'Same with the different 'conflicting' drawings of Shaw. They could be different Shaws...'
His sentence suggests that, in fact, the drawings are not conflicting because they show different Shaws. More Shaws... More clones...
Ati Understood. I am considering viewers who watched only the movie and didn't dig into supplementary pictures or writings. Watching only the movie, it seems reasonable to conclude that it was a dead plasicised Shaw on the slab.
Not to disagree with Hatton, but those drawings could have been David's ideas instead of drawings of results.
I don't know of definitive proof either way.
dk - I see your points. :)
'I am considering viewers who watched only the movie and didn't dig into supplementary pictures or writings.'
I think he is talking about the drawings shown in the movie for some moments.
'those drawings could have been David's ideas instead of drawings of results. I don't know of definitive proof either way.'
Exactly! And this is the most important factor. The possibility! And he speaks about the possibility as well.
My whole article is about the possibility. It is possible that Shaw will return.
As for my opinion, that would be an awesome surprise from Scott.
Ati Agree about the possibility. I think it would be the only reasonable way to explain Shaw- or perhaps a clone- to appear again.
Interestingly, it would be a repeat of franchise history- many considered it a lame excuse to justify Resurrection by cloning DNA samples from Alien 3. (I was actually ok with that, so I should re examine my thoughts on Shaw lol).
Somehow i feel reminded of various "lost plot" interviews from anotha brotha.....
Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.
I saw an interview long ago suggesting several Davids at one point. It was also pointed out that RS talks a lot.
I have no problem with Shaw returning.
David could easily have cloned her?
The original Shaw could be in a hyper sleep chamber deep in the bowels of Planet 4. Just awaiting Walter or someone to awaken her(David stored her for safe keeping...it would be foolish to destroy the original?).
Walter entered the enormous lower temple. Lining the walls were hundreds of sleep chambers, many inhabited by humanoids. He began to examine the state of the chambers when he noticed a smallish humanoid figure occupied one of them. Walter immediately recognized her......Dr. Elizabeth Shaw!
MonsterZero It should be in the movie proper though imo and not explained away in teasers and supplementary videos or books that the non hard core may never see.
I'm not sure I can handle something this significant right now Ati. I wasn't ready with a witty response. You might need to put a disclaimer on epic reveals such as this. Really great work.
Yes dk. I do agree more of this needs to be in the film. Why not make a Part 1 and Part 2 epic like the classic Ben Hur or Spartacus?
I feel like this is one of those, well, olive branches, that may not lead to anything in the end. It serves well for those of us who would like Shaw to be alive, especially if we want to create our own in-world stories. I like it, but we'll see how far into these processes that Scott and company can afford to get into with the next film(s), or what more books can do.
Not a map, an invitation
These drawings and scribblings weren't shown in detail in the movie (they were meant to be viewed at a distance giving the picture of David studying and experimenting). I would say that experimenting on engineers, reviving dead engineers, reviving Shaw etc are the fantasies of the artists making them. The movie itself is more ambiguous when it comes to a lot of things.
In case David cloned Shaw, which I seriously think it's a bad approach like the Alien Resurrection's cloning of Ripley, he might have done it solely for his experiments. He has enough 'good souls' now so he does not need a new clone. Shaw can only return in a movie that covers the time between Prometheus and Covenant, all other options suck.
All this reanimating the dead stuff is unnecessary and silly and I hope they don't go down this path.
I agree with chli that those sketches are the artists' fantasies rather than part of the actual story.
Too many cooks in the kitchen.
"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"
Going back through David's drawings has me wondering who the notes (text) is for? He's a super computer! He would not need reminders (nor drawings for that matter). Logic mistake in the movie? Or was this a how-to guide he is making for someone that can read English? Maybe intended for Shaw in documenting a cure (if we find she is in fact infected but stabilized in cryostasis), or for the company? For the company wouldn't make sense though since he could upload what he knows.
I think the drawings and notes come from his "artistic" or "malfunctioning" side. He does a lot that resembles what humans would do. Plus, he seems very intent on being recognized for his works and all that he is able to do. I think he has it in his mind that documenting all of this will "WOW" whoever ends up seeing it, if anyone does.
Thank you for the comments.
Ingeniero - Thank you very much.
MonsterZero - 'The original Shaw could be in a hyper sleep chamber deep in the bowels of Planet 4. Just awaiting Walter or someone to awaken her'
I like it very much! I had a similar idea in May, and I had a post about the possibility of her return as well at that time. She can return if they want. They know what they do. Time will tell.
One thing that they got right in Covenant was that they killed off Shaw. I don't want her back, she is dead, end of story. A sort of reanimated Shaw seems really absurd so I hope that they won't have that in the next movie, it would probably be worse than the David-centricity in Covenant
I like the idea of a cloned Shaw, never thought along those lines, but it raises the possibility of her coming back
It's quite viable too.
Assuming the juggernaut that crashed can no longer maintain cryo pods, there's also that huge hanger with an abundance of juggernauts that would have working cryo pods
Perhaps that's where David got his specimens from too, their may have been sleeping engineers in those juggernauts, awaiting the return of the elders
Perhaps the reason the central square opening up when the juggernaut arrived was so the elders could descend into the hanger, pick and revive an engineer, greet the crowd and leave with him to seed another planet.
Rather than a Shaw clone, I like the idea that Shaw was never dead and that David cloned her while she remained in hypersleep somewhere hidden on Planet 4.
Narratively for Awakening, it could work well with Walter discovering the real Shaw as the Engineers arrive. We have already discussed how furious the Engineers would be at David, but hell hath no fury for a woman scorned - imagine Shaw's anger and hatred towards David after discovering that he had cloned her and used those clones to develop his version of the perfect organism.
I say his version as I believe it is the Engineers version of the same creature that will prove to be the biomechanical nightmare we were introduced to in the 1979 original. I don't feel as though David created the Xenomorph nor becomes the Space Jockey, but I do feel as though Davids crusade is what made Weyland Yutani aware of the Xenomorph.
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