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"A King has his reign, then he dies. It's inevitable"

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chli

Oct-08-2017 5:19 AM

I hope that it's not a quote fitting to Ridley Scott himself? He has given us so much over the years with his visionary style. But let's face it, he didn't do too well with Alien: Covenant (the themes were great, but details and suspense poor).

Come on, Ridley! Show us what you've really got up your sleeve in the final movie connecting into Alien!

20 Responses to "A King has his reign, then he dies. It's inevitable"

trokanmariel

Oct-08-2017 3:02 PM

I'll agree that Alien Covenant has great themes, but disagree that it had poor details; compared to all the other Alien films, and Blade Runner, Alien Covenant is a tour de force of entertainment and soul. All the characters tell a story, and every scene is a metaphor. The 1979 film is a shallow experience in comparison, and so is the right-wing propaganda piece Aliens

Ati

Oct-08-2017 4:16 PM

'Show us what you've really got up your sleeve in the final movie connecting into Alien!'

We don't know how many movies there will be between Covenant and Alien.

Ati

Oct-08-2017 4:19 PM

'I hope that it's not a quote fitting to Ridley Scott himself?'

No, it isn't. But you are trying to suggest that with the ambiguous combination of this sentence and the topic title.

Ati

Oct-08-2017 4:21 PM

trokanmariel - Your comment is remarkable.

trokanmariel

Oct-08-2017 4:40 PM

Ati Thank you. The link between David and Upworth and Ricks is a mindfuck of astronomic proportions

daliens

Oct-09-2017 1:50 AM

"The link between David and Upworth and Ricks is a mindfuck of astronomic proportions."

I am trying to see this link you are talking about... For me this couple is as important as Vickers was in Prometheus, good looking but not important to the story. David did not care about any humans, not even Daniels who most probably will "accidentally" die in the cryosleep.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

trokanmariel

Oct-09-2017 4:49 AM

Upworth and Ricks are the symbolic reason why David is hostile to humanity; in the literal story, David isn't connected to Upworth and Ricks, but the metaphor of his behaviour is that Upworth and Ricks aren't recognised as evolution by the Covenant crew, and thus the Covenant crew gets destroyed

Thoughts_Dreams

Oct-09-2017 8:27 AM

It was too much focus on artificial intelligence, it would have been better if the time dedicated to AI and humans had been more even. They needed more interesting human characters and more time spent on humans. Unfortunately the focus was wrong in AC.

BigDave

Oct-09-2017 4:43 PM

I think RS will be backed up, it could appear that FOX may now give RS free reign to Tell the kind of Story he wants to do, but the problem is the U-Turn to have David Create the Xenomorph could be a touchy subject.

Alien Covenant seemed to be a brushing of the Engineers and Dr Shaw under the Carpet and only following up on some of the Themes of Creator and Creation but more to do with Davids Creation and Impact his Creator and Mankind has had upon David and at a Psychological Level and Philosophical Level due to Dr Shaws Ambition for finding our Makers.

while trying to give us more Action than Prometheus and bring back the Xenomorph...

But alas AC did not fair to well, and i am sure FOX have to start to ask Questions... did they need to Drop David and bring in Xenomorphs more?  Did they need to bring back Engineers for the Prometheus Fans? Do they concentrate on this being Davids Story.

It appears RS is a Fan of the David Agenda and Tale, and the Curve-ball that was thrown.

I think if RS is allowed more freedom this time and the Next Movie fails to Deliver, then i do think for any future Movies Ridley Scotts Reign will be at a END.

So fingers crossed for Ridley Scott

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Oct-09-2017 11:43 PM

Yes, well I think he ruined it somewhat when he turned the fossilised space jockey into being a space suit. And now, David is the creator of the xenomorph . . . (In Foster's novelization, David was merely a re-creator, or "developer", of what the engineers had created long ago)

I don’t think that AC was too bad though. Focusing on David was a good move. AI is interesting (and Fassbender is great). To me, the film lacked in suspense in the third act. There should have been less action and more of dark, creepy corridors on The Covenant.

Anyway, Alien: Awakening will probably be interesting to see, engineers returning etc?

dk

Oct-09-2017 11:58 PM

As much as I like David and the AI angle, I think he should either die or fade to the background and let the Engineer storyline become front and center. However, I would like to see the AI bit in there since it has been present in all films.

daliens

Oct-10-2017 1:14 AM

David is the new Ripley. Unfortunately he is fighting on the alien side and took most of the cake from the xenomorph. He cooked the beast for good.

How will he use the two facehugger embryos? I'm so curious about it.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Ingeniero

Oct-10-2017 7:37 AM

Yes chli. Do not discount Ridley Scott in pulling together a masterpiece with Prometheus and Alien: Covenant laying the groundwork in concepts.

Each scene seems to have a deeper meaning displayed and the scene example in the opening is one of the best in Prometheus (see below).

Dr. Shaw later squanders her favor on LV-223 by giving into the needs (loneliness) of the flesh and decides to trust David 8 to her peril. Looking back, Dr. Shaw may have run with open arms toward the Deacon alien instead of leaving with David 8 to later be butchered.

 

Thoughts_Dreams

Oct-13-2017 2:39 PM


“I think RS will be backed up, it could appear that FOX may now give RS free reign to Tell the kind of Story he wants to do, but the problem is the U-Turn to have David Create the Xenomorph could be a touchy subject.”

In other words we will get a shitty movie totally dedicated to AI and David being the creator of the Xeno. Sorry but I have no trust in Scott handling this. They should get a new director that doesn't F up the story. Honestly I got to be blunt about this but are Fox really that stupid?

I am sorry but from I have read this far it seems that it will make AR look like a master piece. Alien Resurrection is in part better than AC because at least it tries to do something with the human characters, I am not sure if they tried in AC. Really disappointed about this.

“I think if RS is allowed more freedom this time and the Next Movie fails to Deliver, then i do think for any future Movies Ridley Scotts Reign will be at a END.”

I honestly believe that he deserves it (the next movie to fail if we get another movie centered around AI) because he made this the AI show so if this is what he got then I am glad to see it crash and burn. Unless he gives us a better movie then I don't see any reason to have him involved. Give it to (I don't know) Cameron or maybe better Fincher. Alien 3 is really great and maybe he is better known now so Fox won't mess with him this time. Give Fincher a chance because it probably won't be worse than Covenant or the next Scott movie if that is what he plans to do.

“Yes chli. Do not discount Ridley Scott in pulling together a masterpiece with Prometheus and Alien: Covenant laying the groundwork in concepts.” (Ingeniero)

If these are the foundation then we're f---ed because they are not very good movies. They both lack a big enough amount of good human characters. Sorry but I don't trust Scott at all to make a good end to this. My approach to the next movie is that it will probably be crap so I will maybe (a big emphasis on maybe) watch it and if I do I will be surprised at the good bits keeping in mind that it is a movie that will probably suck. Yes it doesn't have to be bad but I don't keep my hopes up since the AI will be the main focus, or so it seems.

chli

Oct-14-2017 2:45 AM

Thoughts_Dreams

For those of us who saw the space jockey as very old (fossilized), he already ruined that in Prometheus, turning it into a space suit. Now that we no longer have the connection to the outbreak on LV-223 about 2000 years earlier, the stage is already set for David being the creator of the xenomorph. It’s both sad and unnecessary, since David could easily be portrayed as merely delusional (He thinks he is the creator): the engineers had created this biological weapon a long time ago but understood that it was dangerous and morally wrong. But this doesn’t seem to be the road they’re taking.

I agree with you that the characterization in Alien 3 was much better than in AC (better actors, like Charles Dance). Let’s hope he will make amends in Alien: Awakening. I hope we get a splendid final chapter connecting into Alien where the engineers and perhaps even their creators are involved . . .

Ingeniero

Oct-14-2017 9:08 AM

I saw something different (your take above) in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant Thoughts_Dreams. I will be just fine with anything Ridley Scott does on film in regards to what Alan Dean Foster wrote in the Alien: Covenant Origins novel. 

"I honestly believe that he deserves it (the next movie to fail if we get another movie centered around AI) because he made this the AI show so if this is what he got then I am glad to see it crash and burn."

You don't like being surprised Thoughts_Dreams?

The Alien: Covenant novels are both great. Alien: Covenant has crashed and burned it's way into stellar Blu-ray sales. Ash and Mother were always a big part of the Alien show followed by Bishop's contribution.

AI was running the show on the surface of LV-426 and in orbit until Ripley and Parker had their fill. AI was also running the show on Fury 161 when Ripley was scanned, AI recognized the organism in the scan and sent a message to corporate prompting the arrival of Michael Bishop. 

I'm not sure how to classify Call saying "Father" to AI and the effects quality of the beast at the end of AR (thumbs down is polite). 

 

joylitt

Oct-14-2017 2:36 PM

Ingeniero I don't see how an A.I. centered film can be surprising at this point. And I don't see how a mad robot or a synthetic conspiracy can be perceived as a "fresher" idea. A movie like that will bomb badly and deservedly so. They can explain the synthetics' role in 5 minutes running time and leave the rest re-visiting much more interesting questions like why the Engineers wanted to destroy humankind 2000 years ago, why they seed other planets, what is the relationship between the Engineer race and the xenomorph and the black goo, etc.

Ingeniero

Oct-14-2017 7:02 PM

I may just be more optimistic regarding an "AI" story joylitt.

In Alien according to Ridley Scott, AI extends into Engineer lore now with the mutagen described as a radical AI in Advent.

Not only could we have more shown with how humans developed AI and then deployed it but also what the Engineers did with AI and if they chose to suppress it. And why? Ridley Scott said the Engineers received the black goo mutagen from someone else. Who developed the mutagen AI?

The entire above AI paragraph may be fluff and uninteresting to many that focus on the alien but I like the backstory development that shows the Engineers and the reach of AI. And I can take a little synthetic conspiracy too. 

Thoughts_Dreams

Oct-17-2017 7:48 AM

Chli: Yeah they turned the SJ into something disappointing in Prometheus but it could be possible that the SJ and the one in Prometheus could be connected so the Engineer isn't the SJ, that is my take on it at least. It would be great if David thinks that he is the creator of the original Xeno but finds out that the Engineers made it a long time ago, that would be fun.

At a minimum it should have better human characters, at this point that is all I want.

Ingeniero: Yeah but that depends on how the surprise is. There are good surprises and bad ones. Bad ones are those that are disappointments and there are good ones like when your team will meet a better one and your teams wins, that is a good surprise. A lot of them in Alien Covenant were bad. I haven't read the ADF novel of Covenant but they made an interview with him on AVP-Galaxy it seems like the book is better than the movie so maybe I will buy it.

"I will be just fine with anything Ridley Scott does on film in regards to what Alan Dean Foster wrote in the Alien: Covenant Origins novel."

I won't give him a pass just because it is Scott, I have higher standards than that. I don't really like how Lucas went with the SW prequels either although 2 and 3 are better than 1. They must make the next Alien movie better than what the prequels have been this far because they have been below average.

Sure AI has always been a part of the alien movies but it has never been about it like it was in AC, that is a difference. The amount of time spent on it in Alien Covenant was way bigger compared to any movie before that which made it worse. Both Ash and Bishop were interesting but for different reasons, Ash was creepy and Bishop was there to help (it seems to me). They are like a metaphor for how technology can be used for good or bad purposes. Alien movies before AC has been more about the human part, which is what makes them better.

chli

Oct-17-2017 1:22 PM

Thoughts_Dreams

I don't think that David is aware of that the outcome of a facehugged engineer would be an even more terrifying monster than the xenomorph he thinks he's created. :)

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