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Confusion

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Killingslave

Aug-21-2017 7:18 AM

How can David be the creator of the Alien when in 18 years Alien happens and they find the ship with the eggs on LV-426 with the Engineer pilot dead at the wheel.  I'm David did what ever he could to kill every Engineer on the planet.  The he makes the most widley know evolution of the Alien, some say its because the Eggs were already there by the conversation between Walter and David but after Prometheus and  this one I am slowly losing my faith in the ablity of the Directors to make a good origin of the movie for the Alien species if anyone could offer up any help seeing as the movie covenant leaves off with David taking commend and putting the face huggers into cryo stasis for the remainder of the 7 years to Origae 6

19 Responses to Confusion

Svanya

Aug-21-2017 12:05 PM

We know the engineers are in suits, could be anyone in that suit on the Derelict. 

Lawrence of Arabia

Aug-21-2017 12:15 PM

Anybody could be the Space Jockey as the complete story hasn't been told yet and already we've had some unthinkable revelations. Personally, I like the idea that David creates the Xenomorph variant from the blue-prints of what the Engineers have already done with the Ultramorph. It's poetic, monsters making monsters, creators being destroyed by what they've created, the Perfect Organism born from madness. What we saw in Covenant though I believe isn't the final product yet and David has work to do on his way to Origae-6.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

daliens

Aug-21-2017 2:31 PM

Anyone can explain how will David create a biomechanical xenomorph?

Look at the picture of the Big Chap, it's very different from the Protomorph David created in Covenant.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Dark Nebula

Aug-21-2017 3:05 PM

@daliens If I remember correctly, before AC came out someone from the test audience who saw cut of the film said something that David merges his own synthetic DNA with the protomorph DNA to create the classic xenomorph we all know and love, and thats what gives them intelligence and biomechanical appearance.

I don't know if this will be relevant in the sequel because knowing Ridley Scott, he changes his mind very quickly.

 

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

Kethol

Aug-21-2017 3:06 PM

He has a few thousand colonists to experiment on to get to the version we see in Alien.

That is presuming the xeno ovomorph eggs in the Alien derelict actually has something to to with David. We presume David bred his proto xenomorph from the neomorph and human DNA, but we don't actually know that for sure.

David never directly said that and what he has said may not be true. The xeno form of the Alien may be an Engineer creation and David was just hybridizing it.

Thombach

Aug-21-2017 3:15 PM

Dark Nebula, David is not flesh and blood. He has no DNA.

V I N E T I C U M

Aug-21-2017 3:45 PM

The protomorph is different, but precisely because genesis has just begun. By the term Proto: It indicates a simpler structure of an organism, its first stage of development, this is easy, the difficult one must be the creation of the Queen and it begins to dance.                                          "Breakfast from Tiffany?"

daliens

Aug-21-2017 9:43 PM

David has only 2 facehuggers now and no pathogen. If the facehuggers are the same he used on Oram and Lope he cannot hope to get a biomechanical xenomorph even if he uses all 2000 colonists. The best he can get is a bipedal Protomorph, after a long cycle of facehugging and chestbursting.  And now, without any pathogen the only chance to mix his synthetic DNA (or whatever gets close to that meaning) with the alien DNA is to get facehugged himself.

The second chance is to have Walter facehugged after their fight and to get a biomechanical xenomorph out of it, something that would fill with eggs the hold of one of the Juggernauts in the underground hangar. In this way, when the engineers return to Paradise one of them would try to fly the Juggernaut and so he becomes the Space Jockey. 

I have one miniaturized Big Chap just in front of my eyes and there is no way such design can be the result of 2 facehuggers and 2000 colonists. Even if we have 2 androids to play with, this xenomorph looks more like the engineers' technology. It's all tubes and looks more mechanical than biological,  not hard to imagine that his skeleton is mechanical as well. 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Kethol

Aug-21-2017 11:03 PM

Daliens, I think you may not understand what DNA is, or what David or Walter are. DNA is a nucleic acid that stores genetic instructions inside the cells of all living organisms.

David and Walter are androids, made of plastics, polymers, alloys, and microprocessors. They are not made of living cells containing molecules of DNA. They are machines.

joylitt

Aug-21-2017 11:32 PM

Kethol In defence of Daliens I must say that the Alien franchise is not precisely known for being scientifically orthodox. Furthermore, not that I consider what is on the short "The Advent" to be canon, but in there David mentions that the pathogen is a form of radical AI, which would lead some to believe it is DNA mixed with something artificial. If I am not mistaken there was an Alien 3 script that introduced the idea of a synthetic getting infected by alien DNA.

daliens

Aug-22-2017 12:12 AM

Kethol I want to understand what is a biomechanical organism like the xenomorph and possibly the engineers from LV223. How can you alter an organic life form to become biomechanical?

Can David arrive to such outcome with his limited means and knowledge?

To get his organic Protomorph play basketball and sing, maybe, but to make it biomechanical?

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

hox

Aug-22-2017 2:29 AM

@daliens, strictly speaking, biomechanical relates to 'the mechanical laws concerning the movement or structure of living organisms'. However, the term is used to describe Giger's art, where his creations often blend into machine-like forms.

Since it's purely in the realms of fantasy (at this stage at least!) we have no idea how a creator would achieve such in thing in practical terms. Having said this, David is so clever that he might be able to figure it out if he has something to work with already.

daliens

Aug-22-2017 2:49 AM

hox well, David and the writers should get to work already if they want to convince somebody that David created this beauty

If thay cannot explain it in a reasonable way and expect us to believe that David is so clever and he simply can defy the rules of the universe, better leave it unexplained in the realms of fantasy and blame it on the engineers. 

David may die by the hand or teeth of his own creation,  the Protomorph.

Now he opened a way for a future film, Protomorph  vs. Xenomorph. 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

hox

Aug-22-2017 4:57 AM

The 'rules of the universe' got trashed in this series in 1979, when they started travelling faster than light. Just roll with it.

hox

Aug-22-2017 4:58 AM

[deleted duplicate post]

Farlander

Aug-22-2017 5:49 AM

I may be missing something, but David had a full Engineer civilization to experiment with. Even after the bombardment, he was able to even have one in his lab - why wasn't he experimenting with the pure/original Engineer DNA as well? (Or was he?)

----

"This mighty city shows the wonders of my hand."

daliens

Aug-22-2017 6:03 AM

hox let's be patient,  David will explain the faster than light travel speed after he will finish with the biomechanical xenomorph. 

He is so clever.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Kethol

Aug-22-2017 8:03 AM

@Daliens - "How can you alter an organic life form to become biomechanical?"

Most organic life forms are already biomechanical. What Hox said is correct. "Biomechanical" is just a term used to describe Giger's art style. In the real world, the study of functions and structures of biological systems that use 'mechanics' is called "biomechanics". The mechanics part of the term refers to motion and forces on parts of biological objects.

Say you wanted to study how a human elbow joint works with the muscles and ligaments that allow it to move. That's biomechanics. If you look at a lot of David's drawings and notes, in many instances he was studying the biomechanics of those organisms.

@Joylott - I consider what is on the short "The Advent" to be canon, but in there David mentions that the pathogen is a form of radical AI, which would lead some to believe it is DNA mixed with something artificial."

He also says it is "primordial ooze", ripe with advanced "nano particles", operating off on an algorithm based on "evolutionary computing". Those are all real world terms. Primordial ooze is organic compounds and amino acids. Nanoparticles are used in genome editing and gene recombination to re-write DNA. Evolutionary computing uses algorithms based on biological evolution to organize amino acid sequences and protein structures in DNA in an intelligent, pre-determined way.

The pathogen can intelligently adapt to resistance to these DNA coding algorithms and write new algorithms insanely fast. Radical. Since it was created artificially by the Engineers (we assume) I think David just sees it as both 'artificial' and 'intelligent'.

That's my take on it anyway. It seems the writers have actually thought things through and are not just pulling sciency terms off the internet to make it sound like they do.

BigDave

Aug-22-2017 9:31 AM

I will get back latter to replies to people on here...

But i will add my TWO Cents at what Logically we will be seeing.

*It appears David is off to Origae-6 and its likely we will not see Davids Shenanigans on the Covenant, we may get some Flash Backs, we may get some Prologue Video, but i think the Next Movie will be a Aftermath one like how in AC we never see the events from when David and Shaw Leave LV-223 and then prior to the Covenant arriving 10 years latter, apart from the Bombardment Scene and the odd bit of dialog from David.

I think the next movie we will see David has Fooled the Colonists to begin setting up a New World, on Origae-6 before David then unleashes his Hidden Agenda.

This would mean Most of the next movie would be set up to 10 years before ALIEN

*Ridley Scott confirms there will be 3-4 Players involved in the next movie, and the Viral Material seems to show David has contacted the Company and so we will have a incoming W-Y Mission, we will have a Colony Set up on Origae-6 and RS also confirmed the Engineers arrive on Planet 4/Paradise to find it Decimated and no doubt would want to find the Culprits.

*The Engineers will return, but how would they know where David is going, we dont know how long after the David leaves Planet 4, before the Engineers arrive but i would assume they arrive 10 years latter or so, and the Logical Way they find out where David is going is via WALTER

*Fassbender will not play the role of David with just One Hand, and so he will repair himself with Spare Parts on the Covenant and this will help him to Pull the Wool over the Eyes of the Colonist (Lambs).  Ridley Scott is a fan of the AI and i think he will surely have more Androids in the next movie, or at very least he Builds a Walter or Walter Returns.

*Ridley Scott has said we have yet to arrive at the Bio-Mechanical Alien, and Alien Covenant is the start of Who/When and Why the Beast was Created and so DAVID is the Creator... but i am sure something will be shown before we get to ALIEN how the Xenomorph in AC Evolves to the one we see in ALIEN and somehow you can bet a Merging of Organic and Mechanical Aesthetic has to come into play.   This is Sci-Fi and so we cant be all "thats impossible" and maybe they will explore the Synthetic Constructs like Elden was in the Fire and Stone Comics...  if Walter is not one already. But then a accident that Merges Black Goo + Eggs + Mechanical Engineer Ships could also be explored.. i would assume.

*David only has TWO Face Huggers, they could show us he managed to sneak a Ampoule of Black Goo, otherwise the route to Thousands of Xenomorph Eggs would have to be via Xenomorph Procreation, which means maybe EGG-MORPH or QUEEN and maybe Queen does not have to mean a Xeno-Queen, as a Queen could simply be the using of a Females Egg Cells to Produce Eggs... but this may need David to Experiment with the Face Hugger DNA or use Black Goo, if he does neither then indeed a Egg-Morph or Traditional Queen is the likely explanation (but i dont think RS will go all Camerons Queen?)

*The Aftermath will likely see Engineers arrive, the Company arrive and Xenomorphs on the loose, and at some point Davids then Evolved Eggs end up on a Engineer Ship which has to be from the Engineers who are incoming...  Maybe these Engineers see the Potential in Davids Experiments?  Maybe David can enter some Covenant with the Engineers.

I think the Engineers will load up one of their Ships with the Eggs and then set off to LV-223 maybe to use the Outpost to Experiment on Davids Creation because he had FOUND the Perfection they could not with their Deacon.

There is a more Lazy Route though.... that would be Chest Busting Queen comes from a Engineer as he sets off to LV-223 to Destroy the Place, but gets infected at some point and the Chest Buster Queen lays those Eggs.

So i estimate the Derelict to be on LV-426 for between 5-8 years.

I know this wont sit well with many..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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