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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

The Alien: Covenant, Alien: Awakening & Prometheus Movie Community

ninXeno426

Member

204

Posted Aug-13-2017 3:16 AM

To support the other topic i just launched,I'd like to more directly discuss what is perhaps the most divisive aspect between James Cameron's and Ridley Scott's Vision for Alien,the queen xenomorph vs eggmorphing.While the queen xenomorph is more universally recognized by fans as part of the xenomorph life cycle,some dislike the "normalization "of the xenomorph,making them more akin to an insect colony("Bee's man,bee's have hives")as to where the original concept was to have the xenomorph morph a human host into an egg.Also worth noting back in 1986 when Aliens originally released,egg morphing was practically unknown to the world,making the queen so much easier to accept.Only since has eggmorphing become better known among fans,leading some to unfairly criticize James Cameron of "normalizing" the xenomorph life cycle.Also worth noting that Between Prometheus and Alien Covenant,that both the queen and egg morphing are being rendered obsolete in favor of the Black goo contagion.Just another example of visions from these two directors be received rather differently from fans.And with Prometheus And Alien Covenant,does this argument have any validity anymore?

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

24 Responses to Egg Morphing vs Queen xenomorph

ali81

Aug-13-2017 3:20 AM

I def prefer egg morphing as it offers more horror and is something different yet for me both can exist no problem

ninXeno426

Aug-13-2017 3:37 AM

I agree.Despite what i said,I'm actually curious as to how the next film will incorporate both,if at all,into the story.In my opinion,the series has an obligation to include both for better continuity,something the series is struggling with right now.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ali81

Aug-13-2017 3:48 AM

with the way the black goo works it definitely looks as though the queen is taking a back seat in the series and morphing was as u said the original concept. although not in the theatrical release, only due to the pace of the film, it was in the directors cut which enters it into canon. like u said when aliens was in the making, morphing wasn't a thing so Cameron addressed the issue in keeping with the derelict scene in alien where we see all the eggs so a queen made sense.

im not sure if RS intends to bring in some form of queen or at least hint towards a queen being included in the series but I agree both should have a place and there isn't any reason why they both cant exist in the xeno life cycle.

Yog Sothoth

Aug-13-2017 4:21 AM

Watch the Alien: Covenant Blu-ray extra scene "Advent". It shows David's plan to use Daniels to birth an Alien Queen. since when does the black goo remove the idea of the Queen? I think you're a bit confused.

ali81

Aug-13-2017 4:32 AM

who said the black goo removed the idea of the queen? I certainly didn't.

MonsterZero

Aug-13-2017 6:25 AM

I like eggmorphing...but it's all really confusing!? Unless the facehuggers actively seek out their prey ...I don't see how 'morphing' or Queen laying eggs works? Only so many stupid humans getting close enough(or being held)....once the news gets to the general population, everyone will avoid the eggs/pods and the marines will set out to destroy them on sight. End of species.

"Look an egg.."

*BLAM*

"That was easy!"

Black goo pathogen is much better....airborne..water supply...food supply..really hard to know when you are digesting it...(unlike a egg/facehugger!) Microscopic...Pretty much makes a planet uninhabitable.

"Look.."

"I don't see anything?!"

"I feel sick..."

 

 

BUT, in terms of film making ...I'd probably choose the Queen Xeno first(visually stunning).....then Egg Morphing(cool)...then black goo(not really something to film?).

ali81

Aug-13-2017 7:10 AM

the difference I believe is that the black goo is a weapon. the resulting creature, in this case the neomorph, doesn't appear to be able or designed to procreate unlike the original xeno. the original xeno has a life cycle and the ability to continue the species. im guessing from material iv read and heard, the basics of the goo is that it will create a creature (neomorph) which will the hunt down and kill all fauna on a planet. once the neomorph had killed everything it would then naturally die. the engineers give this time and then return with possibly an antidote or reverse pathogen to make the planet habitable again. id say the neomorph is a completely different species to the xeno. so where the xeno is concerned I prefer morphing but I think both should remain in the alien universe 

Kethol

Aug-13-2017 11:39 AM

Why do we need to pick one or the other? Both are two ways the eggs are made and both are part of the film cannon now.

@ninXeno - Also worth noting back in 1986 when Aliens originally released,egg morphing was practically unknown to the world.

Maybe not to the masses, but the egg morphing scene was actually quite well known to Alien fans even back in 1979. It was mentioned in the film magazines, the making of Alien book, the comic book, et cetera.

Timmy the ultramorph

Aug-13-2017 11:46 AM

I like the eggmorphing a lot more but i think they can both exist. the queen lays the eggs but when an alien is sepperated from the hive they can eggmorph victoms so their life still helps the species. this would help the xenomorphs expand there territory sinse the queen has some trouble moving around.

food ain't that bad! - Parker

ali81

Aug-13-2017 11:48 AM

would also make it a more dangerous species. u have to get every last one of them or the whole horror will start again

Walter

Aug-13-2017 11:51 AM

Eggmorphing is better

I dont think Ridley will allow a queen.Queen can be used for other things too.In advent its hard to understand David -

Wolf,Lamb,Queen,"If you do this, there will be no turning back"

Having a queen ruines the horror of the xenomorph.And even worse - Hive...

Its best to be the Perfect Organism

ali81

Aug-13-2017 12:01 PM

theres no need for the queen to ruin anything. there seems to be a misconception ridley is against a queen but he has never stated this. he likes aliens and what JC did. he may, he may not introduce a queen in some form and I think both have a place in the xeno life cycle.

Andrew1975

Aug-13-2017 1:14 PM

Eggmorphing is an utterly silly concept. I NEVER want to see it in an Alien movie, at least not in a theatrical release version. It doesn't make sense biologically. One species (e.g. a human being) cannot be transformed into another species or into something that is part of another species' life-cycle. In the director's cut of "Alien" no explanation is given as to how the process of transforming Brett and Dalles into eggs was started and how it works. What kind of catalyst is used? Was it provided by the xenomorph? I repeat: Eggmorphing is silly. It should best be forgotten!!!

IRaptus

Aug-13-2017 2:49 PM

Yog Sothoth in the Advent clip David says he now his queen, not a queen. That could just mean that like Shaw (who was the experiment) Daniels may be harvested for eggs (production).

So, that doesn't necessarily mean there will be a xenomorph queen, just Daniels will be the figurative queen used to produce eggs. That line feels like it is a deliberate gut-punch to Cameron's queen. You want a Queen? this is the only queen you'll ever get in my Alien films.. XD

 

The black goo pathogen works in a similar way to the egg-morphing process breaking-down organic mass, to create something new, so perhaps this is where Riddlers is taking us? 

Personally I prefer Eggmorphing but I have no problems with a xeno queen either.

 

dk

Aug-13-2017 5:03 PM

I like the options of a queen with an established environment with enough hosts to support with the option of a xeno have the capability to morph in a situation like Alien. It makes the creature more versatile.

IRaptus

Aug-13-2017 5:14 PM

dk agreed. One of my fan fictions worked with Egg-morphing and believe me its is very limiting, slow and requires a predictable series of events.

Egg-morphing:

horrifying and suspenseful yes, but dynamic and versatile no 

 

auximenes

Aug-13-2017 10:16 PM

Andrew1975, egg-morphing and the black goo are like two peas in a pod. Do you also think the black goo should be forgotten?

hox

Aug-13-2017 10:41 PM

@Andrew1975, "One species (e.g. a human being) cannot be transformed into another species or into something that is part of another species' life-cycle."

it's not widly different in concept to a caterpillar turning into a chrysalis, that then turns into a butterfly. The caterpillar's body parts get broken down to mush, before reassembly into a different form.

Im Durp

Aug-13-2017 10:47 PM

I agree with the sentiment they don't have to be mutually exclusive, but if I had to pick one it would be the Queen

daliens

Aug-14-2017 12:06 AM

I would prefer to know the eggs as biological weapons, a result of genetical engineering. That would explain the load of the derelict, that too I would prefer not to be connected to David, but from a distant past and part of engineers' mythology.

If egg morphing would be a viable way to perpetuate, living hosts being required, then the aliens would not kill on spot but they would rather grab their prey to a sort of nest. That can eventually lead to a queen, more like a mastermind than an egg sac.

A queen may be appealing to many fans, and that turns the creatures into a sort of civilization that can decide for itself, colonize planets and even rule the Galaxy. That idea was surfacing in Advent video and it was probably hinted at in the first poster of the movie, aliens fighting engineers.

I don't like James Cameron egg laying bug queen. However the idea of biological weapons that get out of control, evolve into a civilization  and turn against their makers is a pleasant fiction.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

daliens

Aug-14-2017 1:19 AM

"In fact, in the original screenplay there were traces of a bygone alien race on the planetoid’s surface – the most notable element being the famous spore pyramid. The characters deduce that the pyramid is a “a pre-technological construction. That slab was engineered by an Iron Age culture at best.” The structure once served as a breeding temple for the planetoid’s primitive  beings, who required three sexes to reproduce: two consensual, and one sacrificial – an incubator to carry the seed.

Unique Race: “In Dan’s original conception the Alien race had three entirely different stages of its life-cycle,” explained Ron Cobb. “First, the egg, which is tended by the third stage adults and housed in a lower chamber of the breeding temple. When ready to hatch, the egg is placed in the middle of a sacrificial stone and a lower animal, the equivalent of an alien cow, is then led on to the stone. Sensing the warmth, the facehugger springs out, attaches itself to the animal and deposits a foetus into the stomach.” At some point in the planetoid’s history, a “cataclysm causes the extermination of the adults … leaving no one to tend and nurture the young. But in a dark lower chamber of the breeding temple a large number of eggs lie dormant, waiting to sense something warm …”

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/the-alien-planet/

 

There was no egg laying queen in the original script and I believe Ridley Scott prefers it that way. Kind of egg morphing. 

David took 2 face huggers on Covenant, he has seven years of egg morphing ahead.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

chli

Aug-14-2017 2:13 AM

Ridley Scott put the egg-morphing scene back in the Director's Cut (2003) so that is what counts. "Queen" is just David's ironic name for Daniels, just as he called Shaw his "Eve".

ali81

Aug-14-2017 8:25 AM

if it had not have been for the pace of the movie at the time the egg morphing scene was to be shown then it would have made it into the theatrical release. egg morphing is the original concept by both creator O'Bannon and first director Ridley Scott. but that doesn't mean there cant be a queen in a well established well protected hive, after all, the xeno in alien was alone and was probably starting the process of creating such a hive

drucea

Aug-14-2017 10:57 AM

The black goo did not replace the possibility of egg morphing or a queen.  I think with the comment made in Advent, there will definitely be a queen. That is way to good of an easter egg to throw in for fun. He's looking for his queen, which would have been an immortal Shaw (I'm curious if by immortal he meant to live forever, or just through whatever offspring is grown from Shaw).  I doubt the queen is going to have any resemblance to Cameron's queen.  I think it is going to be a more human-related, mutation between Daniels and the xenomorph features.  The queen will probably still be used asa device to create eggs quicker.

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