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Who are you...Oram or Daniels?

Who are you...Oram or Daniels?

I Moon Girl

Aug-02-2017 9:46 PM

I agree with Daniels in that the Covenant ship should have not gone to "Paradise".  We do what we trained for.

Or are you Oram?  We go explore a potential habitable planet.  Oram's decision was to get a closer look, but not land on the planet.  Eventually, the Covenant lander went to the planet.  So, if you choose Oram, you choose just to get a closer look.  You could also choose to actually land on the planet if you like what you see or you could choose to get back on course and head to Origae-6 if you don't like what you see.

Who are you?

27 Responses to Who are you...Oram or Daniels?

Svanya

Aug-02-2017 10:02 PM

I'm probably more of a Daniels, considering they already had a plan mapped out and didn't need to risk anything by taking a closer look. The again i'm super curious and would at least have messaged back to W-Y about the planet.

I Moon Girl

Aug-02-2017 10:07 PM

Of course, the transmission would probably have taken longer than it would take to look at the planet and go down to explore it.  Daniels mentioned how long it would take in the novel and maybe in the movie too.  I forget her exact words, but she basically said her official protest wouldn't matter in events happening around her since it would take so long to send the transmission.

Still, I guess the Covenant crew could have waited until they communicated with the funding corporation until they made a decision.  I wonder how long of a wait that would be?  

That waiting wouldn't make a very good movie though.

I guess the Covenant could have kept moving towards Origae-6 and could have turned around if weyland Co. said to explore it after they did some quick research.

auximenes

Aug-02-2017 10:15 PM

I would not have stopped there. Swung by and scanned it from orbit, sure, but not landed. Report the findings back to W-Y and continue the mission as planned. There are 2,000 other people on the mission who you can't consult on their opinion. You can't go putting them all into potential danger without giving them their say.

joylitt

Aug-02-2017 10:17 PM

I would take a closer look and survey the entire planet from afar. Once I find out it is or was inhabited I would make sure to report my findings back to Earth and await for instructions before landing on Origae 6, because not  being so far away from Paradise, it might have already been claimed by another civilization.

IRaptus

Aug-02-2017 11:05 PM

I'm an explorer, I would have been all in for Paradise lol 

 #KeepTheRociFlying

daliens

Aug-02-2017 11:08 PM

As a rule, on receiving a distress signal you have to provide assistance and send a rescue mission. The rogue transmission was not exactly a distress signal but weighed a lot along with the apparently hospitable conditions on the planet to send a (re)search team. They did all the checks and tests before so it seemed safe to land. It would have taken longer waiting for instructions from the Company and most probably they would have been requested to act as they did. Oram decision was reasonable and as a Captain you don't need the opinion of each and every crew member. No democracy on board a ship, sorry to dissapoint you auximenes

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

IRaptus

Aug-02-2017 11:09 PM

and with a famously unlucky name in the Alienverse, would probably would've ended up sharing Oram's fate......

 #KeepTheRociFlying

Jonesy

Aug-02-2017 11:39 PM

I will bring at max 5 people to investigate the Paradise. And I will not risk 2000 colonies for further rescuing.

 

daliens

Aug-02-2017 11:57 PM

 Jonesy the 2000 colonists stayed on the orbit. They should have quarantined the returning crew once back on Covenant but then we would not have had the shower scene. It is very hard to please everyone.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Leeta

Aug-03-2017 2:31 AM

The logical person in me would say make note of the planet for the company, then get out of there. However I think in the end I would be Oram and want to explore the planet if sensor readings indicated everything was ok. But I'd ask only a few to come with me and give strict orders to the ship crew to get the hell out of there if something terrible happens.

Jonesy

Aug-03-2017 3:05 AM

Yes daliens. That is supposed to be a movie so I understand the crew decision. And without David being on board we will not have the shower scene, and no Ripley, no Jonesy, no  Hudson, no Bishop, no Newt lol. So thank you Mr. Oram.  : )

daliens

Aug-03-2017 5:35 AM

Jonesy I wonder if they had on Covenant animals and birds embryos, it should have been like a Noah's Ark. Maybe Jonesy's ancestors come from Origae 6, unless the bed bugs bite them first.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

dk

Aug-03-2017 5:58 AM

I would be like Daniels. They trained for a specific mission and were responsible for the lives and safety of 2000 people.

sherris

Aug-03-2017 7:30 AM

I would of sent David down in the lander piloted by Faris who stays in some sort of safe place or quarantine until he comes back from the Jugganaut signal.

They would all end up dead however it plays out.

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

cuponator3000

Aug-03-2017 8:45 AM

Tough... I guess if I would have scanned from afar (maybe go into orbit for more info) and then sent the info back to the company. I mean, it makes sense that Oram decided that it was a distress signal (and most of the crew wanted to go down), but I tend to play big things, such as a colony mission I suppose, on the safer side

Not a map, an invitation

BigDave

Aug-03-2017 9:19 AM

I think its a very valid Question.

The Original Mission was to Origae-6, Daniels Partner Jacob would be the head of the Mission and thus Captain, and they had planned this Mission for  a Long time, surveys had shown Origae-6 to be a ideal candidate to inhabit, it was a world that could be Terra-formed and inhabited and so would have had to be a close to Earth Type World.

However due to the Accident and Death of the Captain, Oram is 2nd in command and he has more of the Curious Character to him.

They discover a Signal, that seems of Human Origin and as a Scientist, then it certainly would be something you would have to consider checking out, because how the Hell does a seemingly Human, but regardless Intelligent Signal come from a System that is considered Uncharted.

The right thing to do is survey where the Signal comes from, and then discovering this World is actually more suitable a Habitable World than Origae-6 was.

This World is only within 7 weeks journey, it would be Logical to at least Check this out, ALONE for it being a more Prime Candidate than Origae-6 but then to have a Signal that seems of Human Origin, you would be crazy to not take a closer look.

While Daniels is set on going to Origae-6 because they have planned for everything needed to set up a Colony and Terra-form this potentially ideal place and her and her partner have dedicated many years of Preparation for this.

If Planet 4 is indeed more suitble and located closer to Earth then it would be a Win/Win situation... Now if Planet 4 was years away, then that could change Orams outlook.  But its basically just weeks away.

And considering the Failure of the Cryo-Pod that killed Captain Jacob, some of the crew are concerned about having to spend another 7 years inside of those.

It logically makes more sense to take Orams Stance on this.

His Failings however are to survey the World first, before making a Trip down... as indeed as Daniels Says they dont know what the %£^ is down their.

But this is where Plot Device is required, the Heavy Storm Activity interferes with Sensors, making it hard to detect whats down their.  Thus they need to send down a Lander.

More sense would be to use  a Probe... but the findings of a Probe may lead to more Caution in the Crews approach to land and no doubt only send down more Probes or a limited crew.  Walter and 2 Security for instance.

We can assume the no Probe Plot Device is not needed, because we have to assume they have Probed Origae-6 enough that they did not need any Probes for their Mission to Origae-6 and so the Covenant lacked this ability.

And so a Manual Landing Party was the only way forwards.

If they had came across the dead Engineers first then surely they would be more Cautious and decide to head back to the Ship.

They went to the Juggernaught because this is where the Signal came from....

The Spores were the Plot Device that drove them having to see the Dead Engineers and look past these, as the Neomorph Threat would caused them to try and escape and seeing the Lander Destroyed and the Threat of the Neomorphs... David Provided the only Escape for them.

He had informed them to follow him to stay alive and so its a case of quickly follow David to potential Sanctuary instead of hanging around or try and contact another Drop Ship Rescue while on the Ground with a unknown hostile Alien threat on the lose.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

sherris

Aug-03-2017 9:58 AM

Even though it turned out to be poor decision making, i think it was an impossible situation made more complex due to the captains death and the fact that they were all couples. Oram had to go for it.

I would just send Walter and a pilot. Faris. She stays inside the lander while Walter checks the signal and returns. 

I would trust the atmosphere detectors but my concerns would be: What if it is full of life and we low on the food chain. One mouthful and the entire crew are gone. Leaving Tee and 2 others to run the Covenant. So just as a safety thing i would send minimum humans.

Walter is valuable but not so that you need to risk your life so you have someone to pour you tea. Leave the toaster behind we will be okay.

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

I Moon Girl

Aug-03-2017 4:05 PM

The problem with sending Walter is if Walter gets killed, who's going to pilot the Covenant to Origae-6 over the 7 year trip? In the actually story, the awake crew took a lot of risk sending their only AI.

BigDave

Aug-03-2017 4:47 PM

Ha ha.. indeed....  they could always ask David to pour the Tea but we know he is not happy at being asked that ;)

Yeah i think we could all work out a more logical way to do things, even as i suggested a answer to why not send Probes down to take care of this Plot Hole or Stupid Decision.

A lot of Movies required poor choices to drive the Plot along. Prometheus was the same, as if their was more procedures followed then we would ultimately not have our movies.

Foolish Errors are needed to allow for people to be killed or a Plot to take place... some movies handle these better than others though.

Alien was a great example, we had Lambert who aired Caution and if she was in charge they would have headed back instead of arrive at where Dallas and Kane decide to have a Trip down that Hole.

This was the same reasons for Orams downfall, he was curious and felt it was in his duty to go and investigate the Signal at its Source, which is exactly what Dallas did too.

A Clever moment is the whole ASH opening the Door to let Kane on board, this was a DUMB Movie which is why Ripley was really pissed about it and Lambert pissed at Ripley because she was going to leave them outside.

But the Genius of this what would be Dumb Idea... is the reveal that Ash was a Robot with a Objective, and so letting Kane back was nothing to do with trying to help, but purely Ash getting the Organism back on the Ship.

Sadly not every movie is wrote as well.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-03-2017 4:50 PM

Excellent Point Moon Girl ;)

I suppose they would have to take it in turns on a Rota... If they was being a bit more cautious they would have sent down a Pilot, Walter and TWO Security

They appeared to be cautious however, but not really enough, they of course was not aware of those Spores, and you can assume when the Crew Members became ill they would not be aware of how this came to be.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Batchpool

Aug-03-2017 4:51 PM

I'm with Daniels. The first thing I would do is establish what the bonus situation is. If there is a clause in the contract, then I would then have to go with Oram. The next step would then be to send down a couple of security guys wearing red shirts.

auximenes

Aug-03-2017 10:53 PM

daliens, I understand that it's not typical to let all of the crew of a ship in on the decision-making process but this is far from a typical crew and mission.

dk

Aug-03-2017 11:30 PM

auximenes There would be protocols for things like that- command chain and all. That said, it is pretty common to seek the sense of the crew and weigh that against the mission- the mission comes first for a disciplined crew. It can be complicated.

Another consideration is that everyone knew they were on a one way trip. If they decided to change plans against the original mission objective, how could they be held accountable and how would it be enforced? To me, the long and short answers are that they couldn't be held accountable nor suffer any administrative consequences bar a self destruct sequence of the Covenant engaging for straying off course. 

daliens

Aug-03-2017 11:46 PM

Except Daniels all the crew was in favor of a closer look at planet 4 and that helped the hesitating Oram to make his decision. The captain is overall in command and fully responsible for the fate of the mission. That's why Oram felt not fully equipped for the rank, being a huge responsibility. 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

dk

Aug-03-2017 11:59 PM

Yep, not to be rude, but shit happens and sometimes a Commander has to make real time decisions since nothing ever goes as planned. You are correct that ultimately Oram was responsible. I also assume it is a competent commander or at least one that cares. If a commander has a mindset to complete a mission by the numbers no matter what, that invites dissension and possible mutiny among the crew. Not easy to command and I could not blame Oram completely since he was not prepared to assume command- but like I said- shit happens. 

daliens

Aug-04-2017 12:13 AM

Thank you dk. That'my point exactly and for me they handled the script/characters in a very believable way. A good reason to set Jacob on fire.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

VivisectedEngineer

Aug-04-2017 6:17 PM

Good topic, I Moon Girl !

Well, hindsight is 20/20 and we'd all like to claim to be Daniels, but I definitely, 100% would have gone Oram's route.

For one thing, to me it would have actually seemed safer than having everyone go back into hypersleep for seven more years, especially with the suddenly apparent risk of stellar flares and spontaneously combusting hypersleep pods.

For another thing, I'm very prone to Oram's same sort of faith-based mystical thinking, and whenever something unexpected happens I tend to think there's a deeper meaning behind it.

I definitely would have interpreted the sudden appearance of the planet as a sort of meant-to-be gift from God.

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