I'm one of those people who gets addicted to movies or TV series which deals with aliens, mystery, myths and such.
I often find myself disappointed, because most TV shows or Movies never really answer the big questions, either due to poor writing, or because they get cancelled.
Shows like The Event, Flash Forward, Lost and so on.
But also movies like Covenant and Prometheus.
I feel pretty let down with both Covenant and Prometheus, none of them seem to focus at all on the more interesting aspects, the lore and myth that's been created by the show.
They must spend a ton of resources on both the language (Written and spoken) and sets, but the films never go into detail about the alien race we know as the Engineers.
We had small tidbits in Prometheus, but they were pretty much non existent in Covenant, despite the planet supposedly being where they come from.
I don't really trust what Ridley says anymore, he can never seem to make up his mind about things.
I saw Prometheus when it first came out in the cinema and delayed by a month or so seeing AC in the cinema, as I seem to be losing interest in yet another movie/tv franchise which is wasting so much opportunity for great story telling and lore.
But, as per my question, do you think we'll actually see a movie with Engineer content?
I agree, it is disappointing when you see during production so much effort and time spent on fantastically detailed and elaborate sets, that only get glanced over in the final cut.
It must be disappointing for the artists/designers involved as well, they would pour their heart and soul into creating something wonderful only to have it in the background and never thoroughly explored or appreciated.
To answer your question, Ridley has confirmed the next instalment will return the engineers
Hopefully they come back with a vengeance to smite David!
I do wonder if FOX feel that exploring these themes and Mythos too deep is a distraction from the Main Focus which was the Xenomorph.... the Prequels set out to cover the Xenomorph Origins... something which the first did not do enough and the 2nd movie attempted to do.
The other unknown from Alien was the Space Jockey Race, and they did try and cover them, but the Plot was so Bold, Gods, Creation etc etc... that i feel FOX has felt that at the start this was a interesting route to take as the Xenomorph had been done over and over and so this was FRESH!
To now thinking maybe going the whole Engineer Back Story route is a distraction from the Alien Franchise.
I think and hope we can learn a bit more about the Engineers and what role they played, why we was created, who created them etc... But i think we will get some answers... i do not think we would be going to deep into them.
Maybe FOX feel Ripleys Origins are more important? I hope not...
I do think for sure FOX will give us more about the Engineers as far as a Novel goes, but as far as the Movies go, i think the emphasis is on the Xenomorph and David/AI but indeed the Engineers are a key to this and so its the Weyland-Yutani Company.
But i do think FOX feel Ripley is more higher up the ladder than some of these Elements...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Alien Covenant has certainly taken some knocks from critics from all angles, but has still managed to pull out of the hat a decent amount of takings that will see another instalment. Despite all the negative comments I have seen I am still a believer in the overall project. For starters , The Crossing imo opinion was something of a teaser, and has suggested a back story about the Engineers, which by the way has not gone into novelisation. No one seems to be questioning this fact. Also, why go into all the trouble of creating an Engineer mythology, so to speak, for nothing.
There is a massive storyline gap that has not been told in any shape, size or form. I think this all has to reach a point of resolution. I reckon that the Engineer back story will re-appear, because there are too many clues and references for it not to. There is just too big a gap. I think part of the problem is that The Crossing was intended to be much longer, but has been reduced down to a viral. I believe this demands to be re –visited.
Ridley has a habit of making movies that can be stand alone, and in order for the next movie to work, especially if he wants to go down the war route, then there has to be a background given, and not just David wiping out a colony without any real justification other than him being insane, which I don’t actually believe. I think the insanity angle is only really being played for the marketing purposes of AC. There has to be more to the logic of David’s actions than just saying he is mad, or in need of some updates.
AC is a bridge to the next movie, and as such I am not disappointed in what we have got up to now. I really could not care less about any negative thoughts at this point. This is a long project (which it was always intended to be) and the crescendo of war may be the answer to what all fans are seeking.
from the perspective of getting more historical info into the connecting between the engineer and xeno, what happened to their society and are they spread through out the galaxy, I doubt it. I think itl just be a flashback as to why david did what he did on planet 4. the potential is endless for the engineers but im not holding out much hope of them reaching their potential in the movies
@AdamPD - The question you ask is the reason I am here every day! We do need an Engineer-involved movie sooner than later!
I also agree that they surely cant leave the Engineers out after investing Prometheus to introduce them, i will have to agree with ali81 and not to expect to much as far as their history etc.
I think they will return at some point and RS comments regarding them being one of the Key Players in the next movie is interesting, i wonder if this means we would see some of them return to a devastated Paradise/Planet 4 or if we just see them arrive and intercept David where we get a bit of clues to how they arrived there (found Planet 4 was decimated)
I am just not sure we will ever see too much answers as far as their whole Culture and Purpose, and so not a movie about the Engineers, as far as like dedicating more than 30 Minutes to them as far as any such answers regarding their history and culture.
I certainly think these could be explored in a Book/Comic and if the Engineers are well received in the next few movies and they do release a book that covers them more and this does well.
Then down the line maybe FOX would fund a movie that covers them more, but i am not so sure at the moment because i feel they have lacked some confidence and commitment to the Franchise and by that how Alien Covenant had a 25% less Budget than Prometheus and thats not taking into account inflation and so the same level of Financial Commitment would have required a good $45M extra.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I too get addicted to the same shows (amongst other things in life) and always feel that if it is something I really like then it is bound to be cut because it wont fit the mainstream. It is terrible when a show gets cancelled.
About the Engineers, I think Fox made a mistake backing away from them. Now they will feel a backlash with every review slating A:Cs U-Turn.
So i guess we will get more, even if it is only down to Fox pandering to the crowd. But anything is better than the nothing we got from A:C (scraps aside plz)
Now it is such an interesting story that someone else is going to tell it with their own characters and slant on it.
Fox cant do an Engineers film as it will be slated as a complete U-Turn and then battered because that no one likes them, they are useless (going on current evidence) And it will be easy pickings for the YT influence.
How about an 8 part TV series spin off ?
That IMO would be given more of a chance especially if they go the Legion route and make it an 18 Certificate ??
Take This.... This is the blood of our lord
I think the Engineers are expensive to portray if we go the whole LV-223 Suited guys...
The Sacrificial Engineers scene would be cheaper for sure, and those Alien Covenant guys very inexpensive.
I think for FOX to commit to this depends on how they would feel it would make $$$$ and how the next movie is received as far as Praises for the Engineers and seeing Sites like this and how the Fans wanted to see more about them.
It was Fans Reception of Prometheus and the lack of Xenomorph Clues and related Monsters that prompted FOX to introduce them in Alien Covenant. So Fan Power can go a long way.
I think they need to look at the criticisms of Alien Covenant and right now, a majority of fans would be disappointed if the Derelict ends up being a ship that is piloted by a Human or Synthetic.
The ever shrinking Engineers bugs some people, and so explaining the 15ft Space Jockey as Human/Synthetic could be a stretch.
But having the Space Jockey being a 15ft Race would work, and the only way to do this ideally without being a Ancient Event (which we have to ask how does Davids Eggs get on board). But they could go that route... David plants them on that ship as a Trap!
But a more ideal route would be to introduce a Race above the Engineers/beings on Paradise who are more closer to the 13-15ft Space Jockey and have one of them Ultimately become the Space Jockey in Alien.
I do think with RS comments about the Engineers returning to find Planet 4 destroyed as far as their Civilization is a Big Clue that eventually RS is going to for the route that some beings related to the Engineers eventually end up with a Cargo of Davids Creations.
And so yes i think we will see the Engineers or related covered a bit, i just dont think it will go into massive detail, just as none of the Alien Movies included Prometheus and Alien Covenant have never gone into detail about the Weyland-Yutani company and Merger and why etc.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
However, I think keeping the Engineers mysterious is NECESSARY. The Gods having some type of ulterior motive incomprehensible by humans is absolutely vital to keep them interesting. Alien: Covenant ruined that by making them humanlike with all their Ancient Roman architecture. Giger, the brilliant artist, laid the foundations many years ago. I just wished Ridley would follow that.
I think as they was going for the Ancient Gods angle they had to make their culture less HR Giger... the Giger Atheistic is part of the Franchise and i think they will have to show us how this comes to play.
I do really hope they have something big in store for who is at the Top of the Food Chain/Hierarchy, and i hope they take note from HR Gigers ideas and concept works. And so with that i mean his Mural for Alien, and when we see this and his concepts for the Face Huggers we can clearly see that he indicated Bald Humanoids who are similar to the LV-223 Engineers , being self Sacrificed to the Xenomorph and where the Ship seems to Produce the Eggs.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Even then, if it was the "Ancient Gods" theme, then the Paradise city should've looked like this:
We had to go for a Mesopotamian feel, NOT Roman-Greco:
To be honest, if Ridley had used his (or his designers'?) AMAZING ideas from Exodus: Gods and Kings-- though that was Egyptian-- I would've been stoked.
As i said in a previous topic, that a YT reviewer suggested is a movie wholly and soully covering the engineers and what went down on lv-223, without no humans in the story and maybe a glimpse of a xenomorph as something they are working on which would tie in with davids explanation of the egg to orum.
Probably won't happen, but would be super awesome, all christmases come at once type stuff.
Prometheus could have done something interesting with the Engineers but failed. If they would have had subtitles to when David spoke to the Engineer that would have helped a lot but we didn’t get anything like that which was lame. Why be excited by something that they failed to make an interesting introduction to?
If this is how they will go on to explain the Engineers in further movies then no thanks. If they will explain them in some way that makes sense and that makes them seem interesting then sure but they got to be a lot better compared to how they were portrayed in Prometheus (my emphasis).
Covenant was a lot better than Prometheus in both characters and the Xenomorph thing. I really hope that they won’t make David the creator of the original Xenomorph because that would be dumb.
As far as the Xenomorph I would like it to be better done than in Prometheus but it shouldn’t be the only thing. Human characters are the most important thing and if the Xeno was a result of David re-create it using Engineer tech then I would like to see some of the Engineer connection to the Xeno which could be interesting of it is being done right. The Engineer society could also be interesting to an extent at least their bio-weapons if they use it against anyone that they feel might attack them for whatever reason (here is where the Xenomorph might come into play). Maybe they found it somewhere that is they didn’t create it which could be a way to keep it somewhat mysterious but still explain some of it, namely that the Engineers found it and used it as a bio-weapon but we wouldn’t know how it exactly started to be. I think that this makes sense since we are not totally sure where mankind started either.
The Engineers must be done right, so they really got to think that over. Either they make it a lot better compared to Prometheus or not at all.
As far as Ripley is concerned she is done. I am not interested to see how she lived as a kid.
AC versus Prometheus, I would much rather watch Covenant because at least the characters are not as dumb and there is no Shaw.
The Derelict is interesting. Hopefully the pilot will be someone close to the Engineers. My reason for saying that it would be someone close to the Engineers is that if they will look dumb again in the next movie and be the same as the SJ then it would cast a bad shadow over the SJ but if they are like distant relatives then if they mess up the Engineers the SJ might still have some dignity left. I don’t want the SJ to be David, it would really stink if David would be that.
Planet 4 does have elements of those Architecture designs, more so in the Concept works.
I think RS is going the whole AI route and Creation now, while some creation and religion themes will be explored it will be more about the Hierarchy of Creation, and how playing GOD and attempting to create Life in your own Image with ambitions to play GOD provides a Huge Hubris.
And i think the AI is something RS will be exploring a lot, and i think RS/FOX find it interesting to throw the Curve-ball that David creates the Xenomorph.
But i agree they have to show the Space Jockey is not a Human or Synthetic but a Engineer or race above the Engineers.
I think RS will bring the Engineers back as they explore what happened on Paradise, and then they would want to Prevent David 8 from doing more Damage and want Revenge... i would think they would at some point also want to destroy LV-223 and maybe Earth so that Humanoids can-not get their hands on the Black Goo and do what has happened from Prometheus.
I feel they will complete this, but then look at how David has Perfected what those on LV-223 had attempted and they would then decide to take Davids Experiments for their own Gain/Study and suffer the Hubris of this and end up on LV-426
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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