Alien Movie Universe

Does anybody know the answers?

Alien-Covenant.com/forum/
Forum Topic
7087 Views34 Replies

I Moon Girl

MemberChestbursterJul-12-2017 5:04 PM

I recently just finished the novel and I have some questions for anybody who has read it.  If you haven't read it, but are going to, then pay attention to my questions for me.  I am asking because I don't want to spend the time rereading the novel to answer my questions.  I am hoping I can get answers of this website.  If not, then I'll just reread.

I do remember there was a thread on this site which was dedicated to the novel, but I don't really want to go sifting through old threads for who knows how long.  My answer could be in there though.

These are very important questions and I would like page numbers if you have answers.  The page numbers are crucial!  The only way David would have known the things I am questioning is if he knew of the working crew of the Covenant before they arrived. This is a big accusation that could really show the evil side of David. 

#1: p.234 – David says to Oram, “As a scientist, at least, I know you’ll find what I am about to show you of considerable interest.” All I remember in the novel is Oram telling David he is the Captain when David asks, “Who is the Captain?”.  I don’t remember Oram telling David or telling anyone around David that he was a scientist, do you?  Or at least speaking of his wishes to not be Captain and instead be the scientist he signed up for on the mission.

#2: p.190-David starts talking to the surviving Covenant crew by saying, “I was able to pilot the alien vessel you found only because it was programmed to return to this world.” A paragraph down, he also says, “As you doubtless noted, the impact was considerable.”  I don’t remember the surviving crew saying they saw a crashed alien vessel.  David could have been watching and studying the crew for some time to learn about their characteristics before he initiated a plan, whether evil or good.  Plus, David makes a big deal about Walter protecting Daniels later in the book and the movie.  He definitely watched the surviving Covenant crew trying to fight the Neomorph’s.  For the how long is the question.

34 Replies

I Moon Girl

MemberChestbursterJul-19-2017 4:45 PM

While you present some great points, but as I read your post, I couldn’t help but question it.  I don’t think about androids very much, so I am in no way thinking that I am right in my post, but I thought I would just share what’s on my mind with you.  Also, I found your link to David 8 promotional material VERY interesting.  I thank you for sharing that with me.  It was well presented and informative.  VERY GOOD STUFF!!!

Okay, so….with an android, we can actually know what the android is thinking.  Humans are developing technology today which can read human thoughts and transfer that thought to an action that would imitate that motion the original thought intended.  For example, paralyzed people can move a cursor across a screen by only using their brain.  This technology would probably be similar to an android.  Someone would make a computer "brain" and transfer those ideas to motions.  The technology we have is very early in it's "life".

I could see the David in Prometheus exhibiting emotion because, after all, that David is the personal David of Mr. Peter Weyland.  I think he could be comfortable living with a David 8 with more customization because he thinks he is like a god or something.  That is probably where David got his "I am a god" attitude from.  Life father, like "son".  I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt the David we see in Prometheus is a special David just for Weyland.  Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the human traits of the surrounding people, not including Weyland, rubbed off on David.  Like love, for example from Halloway and Shaw.  David has been “alive” for a long time when we see him in Prometheus, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some surprises in his actions for us.  I am sure he has learned a lot since he was first built.

I think David adds the "emotional" to the interview because he is much more capable of interacting with human beings because of his emotion mapping.  That doesn't mean he can experience emotions, but he knows how to deal with emotions outside of himself from people much more efficiently and properly than previously before.  Thus, he has become less robotic and more human-like.  "like" being the key word.  So he adds at the end, the word “emotional”, because he can properly deal with the emotions of humans around him.

The Weyland-Yutani promotion goes on to say "David 8 can record, process, understand and express many complex emotions, but he will never know true human feelings such as love, grief and compassion".

I don't see how a android could feel "love, grief, or compassion" unless it was programmed to understand that emotion or unless it was allowed to learn emotions from many experiences.  What I am saying is, I don’t see how a robot could develop the chemicals not put in it to feel love on it’s own.  I am no scientist, so maybe love uses similar chemicals when comparing to other emotions David feels (if he feels).  I am sure Weyland Co. would pick chemicals for some emotions that the android wouldn’t get confused with thinking, “that’s what love feels like,” but maybe they had no choice and had to use them.  I think in humans the feeling of love comes from endorphins.  I could be wrong, but I am not going to fully research it because it is complicated. 

I think it would do a simple diagnostic test on the androids “brain” to easily see what it is thinking or feeling.  The same goes for humans.  The person doing the test just needs to know what to look for.  For androids, they would have to also look for things that the android could be feeling but shouldn’t just to be safe and to cover the company’s rear end.  I am sure Weyland Co. did their due-diligence; otherwise, they wouldn’t have been in business to make a David 8.  Apparently Weyland Co. isn’t the only android maker after reading around, so with multiple businesses research the same problems to make money, I am sure they are all trying to do their best.

There is this device which was developed which can detect a person’s emotions using wireless signals and is 87% accurate.  By measuring subtle changes in breathing and heart rhythm, this device is claimed to be able to detect if a person is excited, happy, angry, or sad and can do so without on-body sensors.  I am no scientist, but I bet they could do a much better analysis with on-body sensors and increase the accurate percentage.  The wireless sensors could be something the androids we know in the Alien franchise use, but just better.  I am sure in the time period of David 8 and Prometheus, the technology development could easily be finished and in its perfect form.  Especially since there are androids released which can interact with human emotions.  If Weyland Co. understands the chemical processor and how it works, they will know how to understand if that android is feeling emotions.  For example, people have developed devices which can know if a human is feeling an emotion and this amazing task is done on a body that we humans did not create.  If we humans can create an android body and mind, I am sure we would know how to understand how to read it’s emotions through a computer.  We can do that with ourselves, so why not with something we actually created (down to the smallest piece).

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/09/160921093924.htm

“You probably assume that if someone repeatedly seeks a specific experience they probably enjoy that experience. If someone avoids a specific experiences, it probably causes them suffering.”

I don’t believe that since there is this thing that bothers me everyday and I do nothing to change.  I hate this thing, but I do nothing.  I even think that if people look at me, would they assume I have no interest in that thing.  I think they might or might not, but the truth is, I have a VERY strong interest in that thing.  The problem is I don’t know how or I can’t solve it.  It’s complicated, so I’ll just leave it there.  I know that just because someone doesn’t do something for a short time or over a long time doesn’t mean that they do not enjoy that thing because that thing could be on their mind a lot. 

 

As you describe Walter and Bishop having emotions, I might agree, but as Weyland Co. has claimed, the David 8 cannot feel love, grief, or compassion, so Walter should not be able to fall in love with Daniels.  He knows what love is, but doesn’t actually feel it.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he could play the part of a lover and we may or may not notice; that’s if he thought it should be done of course.  I am sure it would be a logical decision.  In Alien: Covenant, David thinks he knows what love feels like, but he is all over the place in his kissing.  He isn’t very good at deciding to kiss at the right moments.  I mean, he JUST met Daniels and now he’s kissing her on the lips some hours later.  Maybe David is a slut?  Probably not… He is probably just trying to understand what love feels like.  I guess he thinks if he can do the moves at the right time, then he must know what love feels like or something.

I am not to sure what to think though about emotions and androids.  You introduced me to a lot of new information and I thank you for that.

VivisectedEngineer

MemberChestbursterJul-20-2017 3:26 PM

Hello I Moon Girl !

I've just noticed your response and this is a placeholder reply to let you know that I intend to reply in the near future! This is a good and though provoking conversation!

But, as it is, I'm on a beach vacation, which is somehow a lot more exhausting than it sounds, so I'm sort of asleep on my feet right now.

I very inattentively read what you wrote, and I can tell that it is something interesting and well thought out, and something that I would enjoy thinking about when I am awake enough to process it.

In the mean time, please enjoy this completely irrelevant image of the dismembered Bishop plush. This isn't a picture of my Bishop plush, but I have the exact one. Didn't bring him along on my trip, though.

 

 

I Moon Girl

MemberChestbursterJul-20-2017 3:57 PM

Haha, cool.  I like the Bishop doll.  I guess something that cool could only be found online.

Thanks for the rain check post!  I'm going to have to show Antoinette that picture!

I will be patiently waiting for your in depth analysis.

VivisectedEngineer

MemberChestbursterJul-25-2017 6:46 PM

Hello I Moon Girl !

I had an excellent beach vacation, and an excellent Alien themed birthday! I'll post some photos soon!

I think all the info you gave about new ways of detecting people's emotions is very interesting and I would like to learn more about that!

"I don’t believe that since there is this thing that bothers me everyday and I do nothing to change."

I am curious about that and I think I can relate. Still, I believe in situations like that, we must still find the effort needed to change the situation more slightly aversive than the situation itself.

 

And, while Androids might not have the exact same neurotransmitters as us, I think we can't be sure that there aren't other chemicals and processes which can arrive at the same result. 

Actually, I've realized that this issue of trying to conceptualize the emotions and internal experiences of others is a problem that has been close to my heart from a young age.

 

Because I'm high functioning Autistic, many things that come naturally to most people have never been intuitive for me. My father and my occupational therapists had to explicitly teach me the right emotional reaction to each situation and how to display that reaction.

 

It's long left me wondering whether I'm actually feeling the appropriate emotions or just pantomiming them.

 

I also can't help but stand by my position that emotions are subjective and we can only know for certain what our own feel like. We can know what other's look like, through their behaviors or on an fMRI... but we can only know what our own feel like.

 

A long time ago I realized that this could lead to a sort of solipsistic view of things which I feared could lead me to sociopathic behavior.

 

I'm mostly only able reason in simplistic, black and white, rule-based terms. So, seventeen years ago, when I was 14, I made up a value system or rule for myself that was meant to prevent me from ever lapsing into solipsism and sociopathic behavior!

 

I needed a definition of sentience/self-awareness/emotions/suffering that didn't risk 1)excluding me or 2) excluding everyone but me.

So, I set my definitions of sentience to be extremely broad (broad enough to include animals and insects, instantly leading me to become vegetarian).

And, apparently also broad enough to include Androids.

 

My position might not be adaptive for everyone, but it's not something I'm likely to change my opinion on, as I'm suddenly realizing that it's pretty integral to my ethical reasoning.

 

My view on Android emotions might be in error, but I'm not going to examine that possibility too closely because then I may have to throw out my entire model of sentience which would likely lead to even bigger errors. 

 

And...maybe part of my bias also comes from the fact that... I've always had a sort of soft spot for Androids. I can usually relate to them more than any other characters! :)

 

(Also, if you are looking for the dismembered Bishop doll, I got mine on Amazon! I think he was like...$15. Lately, I set him on the bathroom counter whenever I'm having morning sickness. He always makes me feel a little better because, as crappy as I might feel, at least I'm not ripped in half by a Xeno queen.) 

Add A Reply
Sign In Required
Sign in using your Scified Account to access this feature!
Email
Password
Latest Images
Alien & Predator Alien & Predator Fandom
Alien Movie Universe Forums
Alien: Romulus
Alien: Romulus Discuss the new Fede Alvarez Alien movie here
Alien
Alien Discuss all things Alien here
Alien: Covenant
Alien: Covenant Discuss the Prometheus Sequel, Alien: Covenant
Alien FX TV Series
Alien FX TV Series Discuss the Alien FX TV series here!
Alien Games
Alien Games Discuss Alien games here
Alien 5 Movie
Alien 5 Movie Discuss Neill Blomkamps’s vision for Alien 5 here
Alien Movies
Alien Movies Discuss the Classic Alien Films
Prometheus
Prometheus Everything About Prometheus
Prometheus Fan Art
Prometheus Fan Art Artwork & Fiction From the Fans
Hot Forum Topics
New Forum Topics
Highest Forum Ranks Unlocked
Xenotaris
Xenotaris » Praetorian
86% To Next Rank
ninXeno426
ninXeno426 » Praetorian
62% To Next Rank
Thoughts_Dreams
Thoughts_Dreams » Neomorph
85% To Next Rank
MonsterZero
MonsterZero » Xenomorph
91% To Next Rank
Neomorph
Neomorph » Chestburster
76% To Next Rank
Latest Alien Fandom Activity

Alien: Covenant is a sequel to 2012's Prometheus as well as a prequel to 1979's ALIEN. Alien fans looking to know more about Alien: Covenant should check back often. Alien-Covenant.com is an information resource for film enthusiasts looking to learn more about the upcoming blockbuster Alien: Covenant. Providing the latest official and accurate information on Alien: Covenant, this website contains links to every set video, viral video, commercial, trailer, poster, movie still and screenshot available. This site is an extension of the Alien & Predator Fandom on Scified - a central hub for fans of Alien and Prometheus looking to stay up-to-date on the latest news. Images used are property of their respective owners. Alien: Covenant, Prometheus and its associated names, logos and images are property of 20th Century Fox and are in no way owned by Scified and its related entities. This is a fan-created website for the purpose of informing and exciting fans for Alien: Covenant's release. If you have any questions about this site, its content or the Scified Network in general, feel free to contact Scified directly.

© 2024 Scified.com
Sign in
Use your Scified Account to sign in


Log in to view your personalized notifications across Scified!

Transport To Communities
Alien Hosted Community
Cloverfield Hosted Community
Godzilla Hosted Community
Jurassic World Hosted Community
Predator Hosted Community
Aliens vs. Predator Hosted Community
Latest Activity
Forums
Search Scified
Trending Articles
Blogs & Editorials