I don't think this has been mentioned here yet, but there is another difference at the end of the novelization vs the movie.
In the film David sends a message to Weyland-Yutani as Walter, reporting the accidental deaths of the entire crew and stating the mission is continuing on to Origae 6. He would have already studied information in the ships computer by this point and know every detail about the mission, details about the company, et cetera.
In the novel it is different. David asks Mother to open a secure channel to Weyland-Yutani headquarters on Earth using secure hailing code David 31822-B. Mother says it will take some time to establish a link so what he reports is not in the book.
It's an interesting twist that hints one of Weyland's research divisions, one that actually knew what Weyland was really going there for, may still be active on Earth. Prometheus implied David had authority over the real mission, and was the only one who knew what was really going on, other than Weyland himself, so it makes sense that secure channels would have been set up for reports.
Had they left that in the movie, it would have been a more direct link to Ash's mission to get the Nostromo crew to LV-426 and bring a xeno back to the secret research division.
I cant understand how they able to communicate to world which is light years away. No cable no signal no drones nothing able to do that.
It's not in real time. The signal will take years to get to the destination. There are all kinds of theoretical ways signals can be sent light years away that are used in sci-fi - gravitational waves, modulated neutrino signals, laser pulses, et cetera. We can do it with radio or laser signals right now.
Mother replied to David that she will have to wait to 'establish a link through numerous sub relays and wait for advantageous stellar conditions'... implying they had communications stations spaced out across the region so signal could be received and amplified from one to another. It will still take many years to get there.
As its take years to reach outgoing signal is ok but incoming sigbal to moving ship not pissible to catch.
You should tell them ur possible destibation and arriving point in future to catch their signal theyv sent there. Its not possible.
It does seem indeed they are going the route that will show how the company knows about the Xenomorph from the next movie... it also appears they could be going the route that AI will play a large role in the Franchise and Company.
"I cant understand how they able to communicate to world which is light years away. No cable no signal no drones nothing able to do that."
Good point but this is Sci-Fi and so by the same Token, we have to Question how the Ships even got that far out and break the Speed of Light anyway.
So if a Ship can do it, so can a Signal and we can transmit Data/Signals on Earth and Local Space faster than we can send any current Probes or Ships/Satellites etc.
When i click post on this topic it will appear within like a second, yet the Server is maybe 2000 miles or so from where i am, its the same as NASA and talk Live to those on the Space Station or TWO people on Opposite sides of the World, who will talk Live with literally Milli Seconds apart from when one person talks and the other hears it... so this Travels faster than the Speed of Sound....
Someone from the USA can Cell Phone Call someone from the Middle East and so over 7'000 miles or over 9X Speed of Sound and yet be speaking to them as clear as if they was in the same room.
So its not beyond the realms of Sci Fi that communications can travel faster than the actual Ships Can. Even though yes Sending a Message Many Lights years would take a very very long time... but then even the fastest Probe/Space Mission launched would take vastly longer to cover the same distance.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
No singnals is not psychal thing. Ships can use warp drive broke timen and jump over places. But signals are different. I dont say its not impossible to comuninucation there i just say its not pissible with radio signals. For real time communication they need much different stuff.
I think you may not understand. There was no "real time" communication. David sent a one-way message to Weyland-Yutani. It will take several years to reach them.
Radio waves, laser pulses, or gravitational waves travel at the speed of light in space. If we sent a message using any of those forms of communication to our nearest star it would take about 4 years to get there. If a reply was sent from their back to Earth it would take another 4 years to get here. Understand?
Were David's series of AI/ MUTHA assuming control of Weyland's company?
Intriguing, I wonder who is on the other side of the line and in charge on Weyland Co.?, it is plain that that the ghoulish Weyland is dead. So?
The Weyland company is massive, with many divisions. The Prometheus expedition was a secret, so only a classified division would have known about it. In an earlier version of the Prometheus script, Weyland agreed to fund the expedition, but he wanted all rights to any technology they would find for his company. He was specifically interested in terraforming technology.
In the movie, Weyland was dying and was more focused on extending his life, so I think he would have definitely had a biotechnology team waiting to get that tech to exploit and market. They did not know what they were going to find though. It could have been any type of technology, including weaponry, so they would have been prepared for anything.
Just speculation, but David, as Weyland's second in command so to speak, would have had authority to direct that secret division on Weyland's behalf. I expect David was probably sending secure status reports of the experiments he was doing on Shaw and Holloway back to the secret division as well.
Kethol I see on your topic another hole, David hates the human being and the Engineers, what a mess this is?, a big contradiction in the story-line.
Is there another conspiratorial "Replicant" infiltrated in Weyland Co?, this is the only thing that could make sense. Do you understand what I mean?
It's not a contradiction or plot hole if it was not even in the movie. In Covenant, he sent a transmission to Weyland as Walter.
Even had they used that in the movie, it would have worked perfectly in the overall story, since it was already set up that a division of the company already knew about the Alien and wanted it. Ash was the conspiratorial android carrying out their (or possibly David's) orders in Alien.
Also, David keeping communication to that division of the company open could be a huge advantage for him in the future, considering his ultimate goal. He can tell them as much or as little as he wants them to know. In the time of Alien, WT may not have understood there was a risk of the Alien completely wiping out all humanity on Earth. That's not exactly something David would have a problem with :)
Indeed having David only giving so much information... to wet the Greedy Company Execs Appetite where in actual Fact what he keeps away from them is the True Nature of his Creation.
So the Company in effect discover a Pandoras Box
I think this is the way to go... so David lures the company in knowing that with this limited knowledge Davids creation would unleash Hell on them and be a Trojan Horse of Sorts.
But i do think RS is going for a AI involvement as far as underhanded tactics and using Mankind as Pawns.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
If I remember well is under security code David 73694-B on the movie. In the novel is code David 31822-B, but anyway, David's code is still active for some reason.
It was Walter's security code David gave in the movie. David was impersonating him.
"…hopefully this transmission will reach you in the (network of relays?) in 1.36 years. This is Walter signing off, security code 31564-M."
@Kethol: No the other one: David to MOTHER: Use security code David 73694-B.
MOTHER: Welcome. How may I help you?
I see, you are talking about the code David used to access the passenger hold. I'm talking about the security codes David used when the transmission report was sent back to Weyland-Yutani in the book vs the movie. That transmission is what this thread is about.
No, Everything is related, MOTHER recognizes the special order from David (first one): then Weyland is behind it. do You understand me?
Yes, I get it, but I don't think you understand me :)
I was simply pointing out the difference in the MESSAGE SENT at the end of the novelization vs the movie. That's all. Carry on.
I haven't finished the novel yet, but it seems like the novel is heading in the direction that David could have interfered with the Covenant mission as a whole. I am not going into detail on this idea that I think, but I did talk about it in another recent thread.
I totally think David is in control of Weyland Co. He may not be in the office, but he is making the big decisions. Well, at least the big decisions which affect him. Everything else he could care less about. Basically, this transmission would show that David has some mighty power at Weyland Co. I do think, but don't know, that David actually altered the Covenant mission with Mother so that it would intercept the planet he is on. I mean, what are the chances that a perfectly habitable planet would pass by the planet David is on, which apparently was home to some "Engineers", which would also be even more perfectly habitable than the planet the Covenant crew is on the way to. And another thing, the Covenant is FULL OF HYPERSLEEPING COLONISTS! We all know from the movie that David likes to do experiments, so now he has a whole ship of people to play with however he chooses. I have no doubt that the Covenant ship with David in control will go to Origae 6, but I think the planet is not what the colonists thought it would be because of David's influence on the Covenant mission.
BigDave said "Good point but this is Sci-Fi and so by the same Token, we have to Question how the Ships even got that far out and break the Speed of Light anyway."
We do have technological which is being argued among scientists and is constantly being experimented on today which some say from testing can go 1.2 times the speed of light. This was done in a test that wasn't trying to see how fast it could go either. NASA recently ran a test on that "engine" and found out it does produce thrust. The problem with it is that apparently nobody understands how it produces thrust. It just does. The creator of the engine seems like he understands it, but many other people can't seem to figure it out. I guess this is why it is still being testing. Let's say it doesn't go faster than lightspeed as some tests have shown and instead we go by what the inventor says on how fast it can go. With current technology, it would take about 6 months to get to Mars if taken the shortest route. With this new engine, it would cut that time into about half the time (according to the inventor). I hope NASA starts investing in this "engine" called Em-Drive for short.
If Mother had awoken the Covenant crew because of a discovery of an unknown transmission, that theory (that David caused the Covenant diversion) would make sense. But the Covenant only came across the message because a random stellar event forced the crew to be awakened to make repairs. Then they then accidentally came across the message.
If those two random events had never happened, they would not have known about the mystery planet. I can't see any way David orchestrated the stellar energy blast that hit the Covenant.
They did leave the open question as to why, after all their scans looking for a prime planet to colonize, WU completely missed this paradise planet. That part seems odd. That almost seems like someone at WU did not want them anywhere near this system.
But! Even though the solar flare was a random event, I think, I don't know, but I think that David could predict that solar flare. I'll use our star, the Sun, as an example. Our sun goes through cycles of active and passive phases. The passive cycles hardly release any solar flares. The active cycles release many solar flares. If I remember right, usually our Sun alternates between these active and passive phases about every 10 years or so. The star that caused damage to the Covenant ship could have been predicted to be in an active phase by David, or through David communicating with Weyland Co. scientists who would study the star. So, David planned out that the Covenant ship would be passing through the "Paradise" planets system around the stars active phase. He didn't know when the solar flare would occur. The only thing he would know would be that there would be a VERY high chance of the Covenant getting struck by a solar flare. He wouldn't know when that would be, so he just replayed Shaw's transmission over and over again so that when that solar flare would occur, the crew would hear it and would find the planet he is on. Now, the question is, "How did David affect the mission so that the Covenant would pass through his system and it's star during one of it's active phases?" Well, if David has Mother working with him, Mother could logically come up with an answer to convince Walter, who is managing the ship while everyone is asleep, that the ship needs to alternate it's speed. We don't know how far the Covenant ship is away from Earth by the time the movie starts. All we know is that the Covenant ship is around seven years from Origae-6. I assume the whole mission could take around 40 years from watching the crews personal video tapes to send to their family before they go in hypersleep. This is just a rough estimate, but I do think it could be around that long. Just a little alter in the speed over 33 years could easily put the Covenant ship within an active phase of the star in question here. Plus, we don't know what kind of star that even is. We just know it's a star. So, we cannot predict how long the stars active and passive phases are. They could only be 5 years! Still, this info could have been hidden by David or Mother so that the Covenant ship would near enough to this star to receive the solar flare effects. I am no scientist in any way, but this is what I think could be what is going on in the movie Alien: Covenant. I mean, when one of the Covenant crew asked David what he was doing here on Paradise, he replied, "Waiting for Mother." Plus, David had a security code for Mother at the end of the movie that Mother accepted. David's aren't made anymore. That is why they make Walter's. Plus, if I remember right, David's were removed from the public because it made people feel uncomfortable. So, this leads me to wonder, "How does David's code work for Mother?" The David we see is a special David which personally served Weyland for many years. Weyland called David the "closest thing he has to a son, but he is a robot and will never die." I think Weyland is trying to continue his ambitions through his personal David and I wouldn't be surprised if David inherited parts of Weyland Co. since he is like a son to Weyland. Of course, all of this is just my theory. What do you think? Any ideas that I am looking over?
Paragraphs, I Moon Girl, paragraphs :)
The event that damaged the Covenant was not a solar flare. Mother said it was a neutrino burst and Walter said it was a highly charged shockwave from a stellar ignition. That's either a stellar explosion from a star being born, or when it dies in a supernova.
Neither is something you can predict, certainly not in the spec of time mankind exists compared to stellar masses. It's all sci-fi mumbo jumbo anyway. Neutrinos barely interact with anything, and the only time they would be dense enough to pack a punch like they did on the movie would be something like being next to a supernova when it blew. Neutrinos would not mean diddly in that case though, as the ship would already be gone from the electromagnetic radiation and particles that just blasted it to bits.
I suppose a fusion bomb going off beside the ship could hit it with a bunch of neutrinos, but again, neutrinos would be the least of their problems in that case.
Other than keeping the message from the Juggernaut playing, I'm not sure what else David could have done to attract or divert a ship his way, being that he seemed to be trapped on that planet.
From the movie, I understand the neutrino burst as being the cause for the solar flare. In the movie, the crew says it was a neutrino burst, but the crew also says it was a solar flare. The novel, which I am reading at the moment, describes the mysterious "atypical energy burst" as an "intense storm of energized particles". This storm could suggest a solar flare or it could suggest the fact that the Covenant ship is going to get hit really hard. In the novel, Walter first describes it as a "highly charged shockwave", but right after that he describes it as, "charged particle flares." To me it is not 100% clear what it is, but I do remember the crew in the movie saying it was a solar flare.
David could use the Juggernaut to communicate, or at least amplify his communication to Earth couldn't he? The Engineers have extremely superior technology, so I would assume if he used that technology to communicate with Earth, it could take minutes to talk instead of years.
Sorry, no one said it was a solar flare in the movie. Walter specifically said it was a "highly charged shockwave from a stellar ignition" which is the explosion from the birth of a star. You are probably thinking of Walter's reply to Oram asking for a review so he could understand how that happened. Walter replied "It was a random localized event sir. There is no way to detect spontaneous STELLAR flares until it is too late."
Alan Dean Foster was purposefully vague in the novelization and did not mention stellar ignition or supernova as implied in the movie. He actually knows his science fairly well, and knows that would have been nonsense.
Even if you could have your "predictable" coronal mass ejection from a solar flare, I'm afraid it would not do anything to an interstellar ship. CMEs dissipate inside a solar system. Our big ones barely even get out as far as Jupiter. They are also directional specific. Even if an interstellar ship traveling at sub light speed was passing that close to a star (even bigger problems if they were) and just happened to pass through a CME, the most that could happen is a slight chance of a temporary power loss or possibly a fried circuit somewhere. Nothing like what we saw in Covenant. Of course, Covenant is just sci-fi fantasy, so they can come up with any fantasy science they would want in a future movie to make that happen I suppose.
As far as David communicating with Earth using the Juggernaut - there was no mention of him doing that or being able to do that in the book or movie.
I am almost certain they said "solar flare" in the movie. I saw it on May 19th, so it has been awhile. I guess I need to watch it again to be sure that they did say a solar flare and to pay attention to when it was said in the conversation. In the movie, the crew is told it is a neutrino burst at first, but as the beginning of the movie progresses, they stop saying neutrino burst and say solar flare instead. I know I heard solar flare in that movie! And I really thought I heard it in a conversation describing what happened during small talk among the crew. The formal meeting between the crew after it just happened described it as a neutrino burst. I might go see it again if I can get someone to go with me, or maybe... I'll just go by myself...so I can be 100% sure about what space event happened. I do want to see it again anyways.
'Neutrino burst' is only said once, when Mother tells Walter it is coming. The crew was not awake at that point. Walter later tells the crew it was a 'highly charged shockwave from a stellar ignition', then a 'spontaneous stellar flare'. Those are the only three mentions of the event in the whole film.
Walter definitely said stellar, not solar. I just watched it. Stellar and solar flare can mean the same thing anyway. One just refers to an event on another star, the other refers to our own. Not that it matters, as it is all mumbo jumbo talk in the movie anyway, nothing to do with real science.
Alright, I am going to have to bring BigDave into this since I don't have the liberty of seeing the movie right now so I can argue my point. I am going to see the movie again, but the question is when. I am only going to argue with you because I think it is a legitimate theory. Still, if it is wrong when looking at the details, I would like to know and I would like someone to point it out. Thus, the Alien:Covenant forums get there use from me.
Okay, sooo...back on the topic.
BigDave read in a previous thread about what I said about the possibility of a neutrino burst being able to be predicted in a way and he replied with the following:
BigDave said, "I dont think a Neutrino Burst would be a Predicted event though, the only way this happens is at Random, or knowledge in advanced by studying a Star... as Neutrino Bursts are usually a event after a Super Nova, but for this movie they have had it as a Large Solar Flair... which would be unpredictable event unless some device had been targeted against the Star to cause a Large Scale Solar Flare." Source: <http://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/45388>.
So, BigDave apparently thinks that it is a large scale solar flare too. Upon BigDave's comment, I thought that at least the star could have been understood well enough to be able to predict it's active and passive phases like our own star, the Sun. So, my theory became a little more refined after BigDave's comment.
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