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Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

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Likelihood of another Deacon mutation

Likelihood of another Deacon mutation

IRaptus

Moderator

131

Posted Jun-15-2017 3:29 AM

I am curious as to the events that led to the development of a Deacon Xeno and the chance of it being repeated. To quote David "It's not exactly a traditional fetus..."

David transmitted a minuscule amount of the "black goo" pathogen to Holloway, who then had sexual intercourse with Shaw. She in turn gave birth to a trilobite-hugger.

There was a discussion on this forum awhile back that the Trilobite is a mutated human sperm caused from Holloway ingesting the Black goo.

The Trilobite then subdued and impregnated a living engineer, who birthed the Deacon. 

Now, there are a lot variable that occurred to get to this point requiring multiple species, multiple transmission vectors, and a whole lot of luck.  

The Engineers share our DNA, but they are physiologically larger, stronger and generally superior to us puny humans and should lead to different phenotype's in the resulting 'morph... 

So, my questions.

1.  What would the result have been if Holloway was exposed to a full dose of black goo from an ampule? and would the sexual transmission vector still have produced a trilobite?

2. What would the result be if an engineer had ingested the same amount as Halloway and then had sexual intercourse with another Engineer?

3. What would be the result if a Trilobite had impregnated a human?

4. What about Engineer's stepping on a Neomorph spore??

 

Was the Deacon mutation just dumb luck and coincidence? Does an impregnated Engineer always give birth to a Deacon - and human a Xenomorph?

EDIT:  any idea, speculation, guess, hunch or fact will be greatly appreciated and likely be fuelled into inspiration for my Fan Fiction works....so thanks in advance :) 

 

Replies

IRaptus

Moderator

131

Posted Jun-15-2017 3:39 AM

I found this which illustrates the variables involved nicely...except the deacon to queen "presumption" o_O 

 

laperouse

Member

0

Posted Jun-15-2017 3:54 AM

Actually we don't know nothing about the Deacon. :-) Does he/she/it grows further after the birth? How fast and how big? When you compare the size immediately after "bursting" - it seems to me that Deacon in the end can grow pretty large (perhaps also based on the size of the host...). Well, obviously with different host(s) and combination(s) you can go in unending world of different versions... I can only imagine what for example blue whale can produce... :-)))

All those... moments... will be lost, in time, like tears... in... rain.

Nathan Adler

Member

19

Posted Jun-15-2017 4:13 AM

@IRaptus: My question from this is why did Ridley choose to refer to it as the "Deacon"?  A deacon generally refers to an ordained minister of an order ranking below that of priest.  So did he name it that because he saw the Engineers as equivalent to priests?

S1m0n

Member

4

Posted Jun-15-2017 6:52 AM

I think a lot has to do with this !!! the deconm may have been bi-product of the first goo tests , when you see the engineer see the big face hugger he seemed aware of what it was.

Remember we dont exactly know where the original goo come from it may be a bi-product of some species, a moreadvancede species, they may be descendants of these types of creatures e.g prehistoric. Unless ridley or the writers actually go indepth we wont know.

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted Jun-15-2017 8:17 AM

Well the Black Goo was never clearly explained, the Weyland File even went to attempt to do so but contradicted everything in the Movie...

So here i my take on the Urns.

The Engineers Weaponized Urns/Vases have Four Components, a External Storage Container that houses the internal components which comprise of Four Glass Vials that are surrounded by a Reactive Compound that reacts to break down the Glass Vials and mix the internal Pathogenic Mutagen with the Reactive Chemical Component to Create a Chemical Reaction that Produces the Black Goo Virulent Biological Weapon, which reacts Differently to Various Environmental Factors and Pressures.

The External Casing has Markings and Writings that likely contain Warnings and Handling Instructions as well as Inscriptions relevant to the Purpose and Nature of the Bio-Weapon.

The Internal Reactive Component is affected by different Environmental Factors, that cause this compound to liquefy and react with the Glass Ampoule Vials to break them down and mix the Pathogenic Mutagen with the Reactive Catalyst Compound,  This Reactive Component will also break down the Structure of the Storage Component once it reaches optimum Environmental Factors and Pressure, Releasing the Virulent Bio-Weapon.

Which has different effects depending on the Factors which effect the Reactive Components Status.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted Jun-15-2017 8:23 AM

The Pathogenic Mutagen is likely the result of broken down Genetic Material/Mutagenic Chemical as the Result of the Sacrificial Goo being used on a Organism.  This Genetic Material that is left after the Organism who is exposed to the Sacrificial Substance is collected and Stored inside those Ampoules.

Thus some Organism related to the Xenomorph/Deacon had its Genetic Material/DNA broken down just like the Sacrificial Engineer Scene.

The Mural shows this Organism they either encountered, or had created from something they encountered or was the aim of something they planned to create from something they encountered.

The Sacrificial Pose of the Mural Organism, shows this Organisms was Sacrificed to create the Pathogenic Mutagen stored within those Urns.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted Jun-15-2017 8:35 AM

So now i can tackle the OT Questions.

1. This depends really on what the intention of the Black Goo is and what the Slime Component plays.  We see Holloway was only infected by the Internal Black Element which seems to be Nano-Organic Matter which must be Genetically related to the Xenomorph/Deacon Ancestral Origins. I would assume Holloway would just be overcome by these Multiplying Parasitic Organisms.

If the Slime Component has no effect on the Black Goo apart from allowing it to break down the Glass Vial and External Storage, then i would assume Holloway would either be Mutating Like Fifield, or breaking down like the Engineer.

RS had said that eventually Fifield would have Genetically Broken Down/Exploded like the Engineer Head. So i would assume a Larger Dose would have either Mutated him Quicker or Broken down his DNA Qucker.

I would assume it depends on from Infection to Intercourse with Dr Shaw as to if he would still pass on infected Sperm/Parasitic Worms.

2. I would assume if a Male/Female Engineer had sex after a small exposure then provided the Female Engineers still produce Eggs then the result would be a Similar Trillobite Creation.

Unless the Black Goo Internal Mutagen did not infect Holloways Sperm, but contained Parasitic Worms, which infected the Eggs....  then if this was the case the result would still be a Trillobite...  If this theory is true (Parasitic Worms) then maybe they dont even infect any Eggs and only need a Womb to Gestate in... but i would assume due to Umbilical Cord... The Infection had Mutated a Egg to create a Hybrid Organism.

Thus a Female Engineer would Produce a Trilobite type Organism.

3. The Result would be a similar but Smaller Deacon i would assume. There may be a few differences but not much.

4. I would safely assume we would get a similar Organism to the Neomorph, only Proportionally Larger.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted Jun-15-2017 8:38 AM

To Cover the OT Title...

Likely hood of another Deacon....

Black Goo + Female Organism Eggs = similar Organism to the Trilobite, thus similar to the Deacon.  Depending which component of the Black Goo infects the Eggs and how.

The Result would be a Face-Hugger Type Organism that leads to a Xenomorph/Deacon type Chest Buster.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Tiwaz

Member

18

Posted Jun-15-2017 9:14 AM

1. I doubt he would've been able to have intercourse after recieving a "full" dose. Id wager the effects would've been immediate. Either mutation or breakdown.

2. Somewhat the same because of the DNA similarities. Size and color may vary.

3. See 2.

4. See 2. ;)

"Does an impregnated Engineer always give birth to a Deacon - and human a Xenomorph?" I'd say no (see 2 XD).

However we don't know how the bio-suit plays into this, if at all.

On the other hand it might not have been a sperm that impregnated Shaw but one of the many symbiotic/parasitic lifeforms inhabiting the human body wich mutated. Especially the ingestive system has many of them (worms, bacteria etc.)

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

IRaptus

Moderator

131

Posted Jun-15-2017 3:57 PM

S1m0n The engineer looked pretty pi$$ed off when he saw the Trilobite yes!

BigDave and Tiwaz wow thank you for all that info!! Brilliant work as ever.

Seeing as there is a mural depicting a Deacon-like 'morph can we assume that it was not a one-off event that producing the deacon.

So would it be a plausible scenario that a full dose from the ampoule with the mixed Reactive Chemical Component and the mutagen black goo combined is what causes the massive break-down of tissue that we see with Fifield and the engineers in covenant?? Effectively a WMD version of the black goo.

But the black goo on its own in small amounts leads to localised mutation and production of a xeno. 

Now it is anyones guess as to whether the black goo contains Deacon DNA, or if the Deacon is a product of black goo + Sexual transmission (internal parasites, sperm, etc).....that's one hell of an STD lol  

 

 

 

Tiwaz

Member

18

Posted Jun-16-2017 6:54 AM

In this regard it'd be interesting where the accelerant originally comes from, was it fabricated/designed or was there a "source". And if there was a source did "they" tinker with it?

We had a similar discussion in another thread regarding eggmorphing. Since eggmorphing also breaks down bio-matter to create something else. Thinking bout it the goo seems to be more potent and faster. This might indicate that whoever it was enhanced the original. The enhancement could also have led to the deacon-type xeno.

I won't start going into  what i think David actually did when he created his pets. That isn't the topic here. ;)

All of this is a "hunch" based on what i've read and seen so far, of course.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted Jun-16-2017 8:05 AM

The Deacon in the Mural is logically something that was created by the Engineers from experiments on similar Organism, or something that had came from something they got infected with.

I would wager that another distant Related Organism/Parasite is what all this is about and the Deacon was the end result the Engineers was pleased with and the Xenomorph now seems to be a Evolution of this DNA

I am still on the side that i was always drawn too, and the Deacon Mural (what ever Organism this is) was a result of a variety of experiments conducted on the Engineers after they had came into contact with some Related Original Organism.

They then Re-engineered it over and over until we end up with the Mural Organism.... just as David had experimented with many things before he had ended up with those Xenomorph Eggs.

The Engineers then Sacrificed the Perfected Mural Organism to obtain the Black Goo in the Urns (well the internal stuff within the Glass Vials).

As far as different effects of the Black Goo, i guess a lot depends really on what the real deal is with the Black Stuff in the Glass Vials and what is the Slime that surrounds it?

What purpose does this Slime Have? The concepts show it more like a Substance that has Hardened like Wax... that means under conditions it Melts and Reacts with the Glass Vials.

*Is this Slime just a substance that helps to maintain the Urns in a deactivated state...?

*Is this a Reactive Chemical that is what breaks down the Glass allowing the Black Goo inside to be released.

*Or does it do this but then the combined Slime/Mutagen from the Ampoules then becomes a new Chemical which is the very Liquid Black Goo.

I would assume so... because we see the Black Goo in the Ampoules looks like a collection of Sediment/Dirt within Water like substance it moves around in this see through liquid within the Glass Vials and so it does not appear as a Solid Black Liquid.

However when the Urns leak, we see the Substance is a Oily Black like Liquid... it appears the Urns leak more Black Stuff than those Vials contained.. and so its likely the mixing of the Slime and internal Mutagen is what makes the Crude Oil like Black Goo.

Which if this is a correct Assumption... maybe the effects of this Black Goo and the internal component within the Glass Vials (that was dropped in Holloways drink) is what gives us different effects?

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

IRaptus

Moderator

131

Posted Jun-16-2017 4:16 PM

Once are again, you guys are the best :) !!!

Thank you kindly

 

Ati

Member

505

Posted Jun-16-2017 4:38 PM

Brilliant topic, brilliant questions. Awesome chart about the variables. :) We should add the neomorph family. :)

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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