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what was missing from starbeast that u would have liked to have seen in alien

ali81

Jun-13-2017 7:22 AM

I personally would have liked to have seen the sequence involving the airlock when they try and get the xeno into the escape pod and it goes horribly wrong when ash betrays them

14 Responses to what was missing from starbeast that u would have liked to have seen in alien

sosse

Jun-13-2017 1:39 PM

sounds good to me

ali81

Jun-14-2017 6:52 AM

davegerberout, in starbeast the plan was to get the alien, which in the illustration looks very similar to the trilobite, in the pod and eject it into space. ash scupprs this plan but I would have really liked to have seen this scene kept in the movie

I Moon Girl

Oct-02-2018 6:20 AM

I enjoy ALIEN as is.  If the plan was to try and get the alien in the escape pod, I would figure THAT would be the driving force of the movie after the alien is in there.  I really enjoyed the air shaft shock too.

To much time would be dedicated to trapping this thing.  If the crew came up with a clever trap, I might enjoy it more, but what kind of trap does an alien fall for when you just found out intelligent life exists by accident?

I rate ALIEN as a 10/10.  No problems with it except some practical effects which fell victim to 1970's effect resources.  The story is solid though.

I just realized that this is an old post.  Hmm...

Thoughts_Dreams

Oct-02-2018 7:40 AM

Revived by a spammer. :D

Am I the only one that finds that to be amusing? It feels silly in a way, the thread didn’t get revived by anyone that is interested in the topic but by someone that wants to post a link that probably is safe to stay away from. Maybe it is just me but I feel sort of worried that the computer would get a virus if I would visit that page.

The airlock thing to me feels over-done, that is one of the things that Alien 3 did right that the monster died in another way. This is another thing that I didn’t like about AC although it was far from the worst that they did. It was alright in Alien and Aliens but then it became too much. Maybe it could work if the final battle took place in a forest or something that doesn’t include metal.

I Moon Girl: Well the thread hasn’t got that many replies so I guess that it is alright. There is no need to feel stupid about that

dk

Oct-03-2018 1:36 PM

The sucked into space via airlock or broken window (AR) gag (or tangled up with a vehicle- AC) has grown really old. Agree that Alien 3 broke the mold that way.

Interestingly, Isolation broke ranks and had a group of Xenomorphs out in open space.......walking on the ship and surrounding Amanda.

BigDave

Oct-03-2018 4:31 PM

That Plot was more the Earlier ALIEN Draft rather than STARBEAST, it was , David Giler and Walter Hill who introduced the AI Robot addition to the ALIEN draft that was based off O'Bannons Star Beast

So i will reply regarding the Original Star Beast...

A lot from Star Beast has been applied to other Franchise movies, especially the Prequels...   The TWO things that had only loosely be looked at is.

The Ritualistic Sacrifice...  which had only been hinted at in regards to the Stance from Engineers Sacrificing themselves (maybe others) to Procreate Xenomorph like Organisms.. more evident on LV-223..  but ambiguously mentioned by David in the Advent... but this is a case of was this attributed to Ritual Sacrifices on LV-223,  or on Planet 4 regarding Xenomorph like Organisms... or meaning as far as the Sacrificial Seeding Rituals.. (this is where it was ambiguous).

The Domesticating/Civilized Star Beast (or similar) this was indicated a bit in regards to the New-Born in ALIEN: Resurrection.  But also indicated a little regarding Davids scene when Faced with the Neomorph, and to a lesser degree the Oram Chest Buster.

So touching on the last point, it could have been starting to show us that MAYBE the Xenomorph like Organisms could be Domesticated/Tamed to a degree... or at least attempts to do so... this is maybe what David would have been trying or even maybe had tried to do before, and it would be interesting to see if David could attempt to do this in a Future Movie..

The Whole Prometheus Plot is kind of connected to this, in context to KNOWLEDGE and without any programing David would be just a Crash Test Dummy.  and Prometheus could have been hinting to us that WITHOUT visitations by the Engineers and Teachings, we would have remained more Animalistic, Aggressive and UN-Civilized just as say Cave-Men may have been.

This is a element that Star Beast had covered with the Beast in Question... the one that featured in that story was Juvenile and had NO contact with its own kind and so acted by only Natural Instincts but it is indicated that when raised by Domesticated/Civilized Adults, they raise these Juveniles to become Civilized  and we could look at this as raising a Ape from a Baby, you are more likely to see less Animalistic and Aggressive Nature raised with a lot of Human Contact and Nurture, than raising one in a Closed Off Pen with NEVER no actual Human Contact, who would have more Aggression and be less Domesticated.   The same to a degree would apply with a Human Baby too.

so maybe the David and Neomorph scene in AC is a way of showing that maybe David could have Nurtured the Neomorph to not be as aggressive.

The First Point i made regarding Ritual Sacrifice, is the more difficult one as far as HOW it could be covered, because in STARBEAST its indicated the Organism itself is part of a Civilized Alien Species/Culture who require HOSTS to Procreate and they take the whole Procreating Ceremony as a Important and Revered Ritual  but in Star Beast its the Organisms themselves who have created this Ritual and Temples where they are HELD

In the ALIEN Franchise it is the Engineers who created the Rituals and Temples to Procreate a Organism and NOT their own kind.

So maybe introducing a Very Alien Race who the Xenomorph, Neomorph and Deacon can all Trace their Ancestral DNA Roots too and have it these ALIENS had either came across or created the Engineers (or their Ancestors) purely to Procreate this ALIEN Species some many many Millions of Years ago!

But these Engineers (or Ancestors) Rebelled against this Purpose and Eventually the ALIEN Species had Died out because they had LOST Control over their Hosts, these Engineers or Ancestors then are free to learn the ways of these ALIEN Masters maybe used their Technology, and then persue Ambition to Create for themselves..

But then down the line these Engineers (or Ancestors) or other relations to them, try to incorporate the DNA Traits of their OLD Masters, to obtain the Bio-Mechanical Traits we see..  And maybe trying to Merge DNA of their Ancient ALIEN Masters with their own or Resurrect their ALIEN Masters could be the GREATEST Hubris these Engineers (or related) had done!

I think something like THIS ^^^ could make a connection to STARBEAST and bring in the Origins of the Bio-Mechanical Atheistic (HR Giger) while also fitting in with the Themes that Prometheus had laid down.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Oct-31-2018 11:36 AM

Big Dave:

About Advent, I do not want that to be cannon since it implies that David made the Xeno. What is good is that it is just bonus material so it is not canon and if it is it could be changed so that David just made his own version which is something that I would prefer. Unfortunately Advent made Alien Covenant worse but if we ignore it that could still save the prequels from the Xeno being a monster made by a crazy robot no matter what, if Ridley would allow that or not is nothing that I am interested in. I do not want David to be responsible for the monster, that is just how I look at it.

I do not like the idea of the Xenos being domesticated because it would make them into less of a threat and would feel a little too much like AR. I just saw that you mentioned the New born in AR, and that is exactly my point because it didn't work either. The whole idea of taking away the wildness (or what ever the correct word might be) of the Xeno makes it lose its point I am afraid which is the main reason why I dislike the David raising the arms kind of thing with the Xeno in AC, to me that scene is ridiculous. Sorry for using such a harsh word for describing it but that is how it looks like to me.

BigDave

Nov-01-2018 6:11 PM

@Thoughts_Dreams

I think the David as Creator as been something that has upset a lot of the Fanbase than it pleases, i can see where RS was coming from with how they had done this U-Turn.

First lets see in a Nutshell what the Xenomorph as a Threat Or Horror relates too, and what we could assume/gather from prior to the PREQUELS.

We are left the Iconic Space Jockey and Egg Cargo Scenes to Ponder from ALIEN, it had been highly indicated through the Franchise that the WY Company wanted to obtain the Xenomorph no matter what cost and its inferred they want to use it for some Military/Bio-Weapon Purpose (a Great Folly for a somewhat  Nefarious Agenda).  The Actual Purpose of the Egg Cargo in regards to the Space Jockey was NEVER explained, but in Interviews with Production Staff from the Franchise and in Particular Ridley Scott it was inferred to us that the EGG CARGO was some kind of Biological Warfare.

Considering what RS had said and the Agenda of the company to pursue the same ENDS, we have to consider the Xenomorph as a Bio-Weapon and then have to Ponder HOW this came about and which way holds the Most Fear/Sinister of the Following.

1) The Eggs are some Natural Organism that the Space Jockey Race just use as a Bio-Weapon due to their Life Cycle and Destructive Survival instincts.   This would reveal the Space Jockey has having a somewhat Nefarious Agenda in doing this and the Xenomorph is just performing its Natural Survival Instincts.

2) The Space Jockey Race either Create the Xenomorph from Scratch or have Experimented/Evolved some other Life-Form to Produce their Bio-Weapons.  This is a more Nefarious Intention, and it could also imply maybe the Xenomorph is Engineered to Act how it does.

The Prequels (Prometheus) came along (inc Alien Engineers) and drawn us to Option 2 but they loosely expanded on the Reason for Creating such a MONSTER was to eradicate potential threats and unruly Creations. It was also loosely inferred that the Xenomorph could be used as a TOOL to wipe a Planet Clean.

At this point we see the Xenomorph is Relegated to being just a Engineered Bio-Weapon which makes the WHY as the most Important Question, especially as far as getting to any kind of Nefarious Agenda/Purpose.

Alien Engineers/Prometheus had implied to us the Engineers had Re-Engineered/Evolved something to Create a Organism that has the potential to be used a Bio-Weapon to Destroy Potential Threats.  It was more so implied to us that our Creators the Engineers had grown Angry at how we had turned out, and potentially saw NO-WAY back for us and must have been concerned of the THREAT we could pose.

The Cruelty behind the Xenomorph is thus, purely a form of Pest Control to use on Unsatisfactory Creations and Unruly/UN-Obedient Creations.  The ambiguous Nature of Prometheus also left it open to Ponder the Engineers were going to use Mankind as a means to allow for the Creation of Such Horrific Monsters... but it was more implied as a Eradication Tool.

So the WHY was that our Creators had witnessed how corrupt we had became as far as how we was supposed to have turned out and behaved and so we had became UNRULY and the Final Solution was to Destroy us by Creating a Organism that would be used as Biological Warfare upon us.

At some-point they (inc RS) felt that the WHY is a Big Question as the WHY is what holds potentially the most sinister revelation about our Xenomorphs that just go around killing people and using them to Gestate the Species.   They then felt that explore within the THEME of Prometheus that showed us Creation, Sub-Creation, allowing your Creation Too Much Freedom/Knowledge can lead to them becoming Rebellious.   And then felt by apply this to David as the next step on the Rebellious Creation Ladder and then Reveal that HE is the one who Creates the Xenomorph is a much more Sinister Reveal and Hubris.

And it is a much more SINISTER Plot... but its a Sinister/Nefarious Agenda, that only Elevates the Potential Danger and Hubris of Creating AI that becomes Sentient and Out of Control...  This is the Bigger Theme that Ridley Scott is taking that does not sit too well with Many.

While it takes the Sinister Actions the Engineers had planned and turns them on their heads to become more Sinister, it further RELEGATES the Xenomorph to being just a Bio-Weapon used to KILL stuff.... it makes more-so the Xenomorph Origins as Much Less ALIEN than any Fans would have wanted to see.

Especially Fans who had Envisioned finding a ALIEN World where the Xenomorphs inhabited and maybe even to some kind of Civilized Way.   At the very least it takes away the idea that the Space Jockey Race had came across some ALIEN Species on  ALIEN World and attempted to either USE them as Biological Warfare or Engineered Bio-Weapons from them..

I can see where RS was coming from... but i think there is a way to SWING it back around and fit with the THEMES of Prometheus which in part revolve around Creation and the Pursuit of Perfection.  Where we can ask WHY those Engineers on LV-223 made such Murals to that Creature in the Mural.... and if they was so FASCINATED by this, HOW would they feel if they encountered Davids Attempts to Perfect such a Creation.

HOW would the Engineers or those above the Engineers look at David to, can you imagine if they Witness that David is a more Perfect Version of their own Creations (Mankind) and that Davids creation is a more Perfect Version of what those LV-223 Engineers had attempted?

The Larger thing to consider is the Engineers are Genetic Gardeners, for them Creation, Evolution and Experiments in the seeking of Perfection is a LARGE part of who they are.   Imagine if they are Faced with the Creation that is DAVID and then his Xenomorphs... how impressed they would be and maybe they could see the PERFECTION in both of them.... but they are BOTH Not Truly Perfect... but a AMALGAMATION of both  Would be, and reveal the Pursuit of some other Engineers or Higher Race, attempting to combine the Near Perfection of David and his Xenomorph to Create the XENOMORPH in ALIEN?

I think something like this could yet be brought into play, and it would mean David is NOT the Final Creator of the Xenomorphs that end up on LV-426 but he plays the Middle Man Role.

Regarding Davids Xenomorph and its Raising of its Arms, i see this as a sign to show us that David is the Puppet Master and Creation of the Xenomorph.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Nov-10-2018 10:14 AM

BD: I do not have any problem with the Xenos being a sort of bio-weapon, that is totally fine but that depends on how it is done. The idea of why the Engineers wanted to get rid of mankind also fits looking at how we behave now.

As far as the Xeno being a bio-weapon that takes out some of the mystery from it although the idea in itself is alright. To me I would like it to be closer linked to the Engineers or someone higher up in the hierarchy of creation so to speak. This is why I have such a big issue with David being responsible for it. It makes it too close to humans and makes it too much about the robots, which I do not like a bit.

To me I would like to see how the Engineers would have used it, if they had used it on other worlds other than earth and so on. Maybe they have created life on other planets even in systems that we are not aware exist. Perhaps this could work, it depends on how they do it.

Why they were made: It is a risk to make a movie about that since people have high hopes about it since it is such a classic beast. If you shall do that you have got to do it well and add more mystery to it and the prequels have not done that. They are now about a crazy robot.

“HE is the one who Creates the Xenomorph is a much more Sinister Reveal and Hubris.”

It might be an interesting theme, but it does not make an interesting movie. Its roots is too close to the humans and it has become about a (unlikable) mad android with a god-complex. They could have made this very interesting but they have done a mess of it.

“This is the Bigger Theme that Ridley Scott is taking that does not sit too well with Many.”

Yeah, I do not care if I do not get an interesting story and well made Human characters and less AI (robots) thing. Scott might say that he is ahead of the curve and what ever but I do not think that how he has treated the prequels this far have been good. To me it has made the franchise worse then it was before the prequels if we look at how many good alien movies there are in the franchise compared to have many that suck or are average. I do not watch the alien movies because of the robots, I have never done that although they are indeed a part of it. Now Scott wants to make it all about them, something that I do not care about to watch in the context of the franchise. Alien Covenant is one of the worst alien movies to me, and there is a reason (or more) for that.

“At the very least it takes away the idea that the Space Jockey Race had came across some ALIEN Species on  ALIEN World and attempted to either USE them as Biological Warfare or Engineered Bio-Weapons from them..”

I would rather have that than David being responsible for it. To me that seems a lot more exiting and mysterious.

Unfortunately it seems that Scott is too much involved in the writing process and he is not a writer. He is good with visuals, no doubt about that but not as far as writing is concerned.

“HOW would the Engineers or those above the Engineers look at David to, can you imagine if they Witness that David is a more Perfect Version of their own Creations (Mankind) and that Davids creation is a more Perfect Version of what those LV-223 Engineers had attempted?”

It could be interesting but I still do not want David to be the creator of it. I can see where you are coming from but I still don’t think that it is a good idea story-wise, I would not accept that.

The idea of the Engineers as genetic gardeners is interesting. It is just too bad that they did not expand on that in Alien Covenant, to me that would have made a more interesting movie. Having that as the center of the story and then to expand on that could have made a very interesting movie, other worlds, and so on. Combine that with the alien-ness of it, I think about the feeling and darkness in Alien and use that loosely.

So they use David’s version to perfect their own? I would not have anything against it.

“and it would mean David is NOT the Final Creator of the Xenomorphs that end up on LV-426 but he plays the Middle Man Role.”

I would much rather have this than having David as the creator of the monster.

“Regarding Davids Xenomorph and its Raising of its Arms, i see this as a sign to show us that David is the Puppet Master and Creation of the Xenomorph.”

Yeah, I still think that it is “DUH!” (facepalm) though.

BigDave

Nov-11-2018 8:57 AM

I think looking at the Themes that RS was trying to cover, does mean we can start to ask WHY some of those Engineers had carried out the Experiments on LV-223 and WHY they seemed to have the Mural towards that Deacon looking Organism.   This does not have to mean such Organisms were considered Gods....  the Xenomorph of Davids is NOT a God, but David has a great admiration for his Creation, it could be those Engineers had the same regarding what they did on LV-223.

David as the Creator had upset a lot of people... which is WHY i feel we need to consider WHAT happens when those with the Mindset and Agenda to create on LV-223 what they had done, and so basically WHAT happens if the ONE who made the decision to do those Creations on LV-223 and Ordered the MURAL to be created...

WHAT happens if they came across Davids Creation from their Experiments, and also see the Advantages that David has as a LIFE-FORM (Artificial) as their own Creation (Mankind) has Created a more Perfect Creation (David) and this Creation (David) has Perfected those Experiments on LV-223 (Deacon) ....  WHAT would those who had Ordered the Experiments/Mural on LV-223 have thought about David and his Xenomorph?

The Theme is Creation and Pursuit of Perfection, and i think it would be likely or should be that those beings would want to take Davids Creation and Perfect it Further and if they could also Incorporate what makes David more Perfect then we would end up with a BIO-MECHANICAL Perfection that is the Xenomorph that ends up on the Derelict,.

This is a Plot Change/Direction that carries on with the Prequels Themes, it is a way to explain the Fate of the Space Jockey and incorporates David but leaves the Final Xenomorph as something another Faction of Engineers create from David and his Creation.  Its the PATH i was going with my Alien Covenant Sequels... and its a PATH i do think RS may have taken.

What we STILL dont know is WHY the Engineers on LV-223 and the Juggernauts have a connection to the Derelict and Space Jockey... we know they are connected and maybe the SAME but then what we dont know is WHY does that Bio-Mechanical Technology appear to look so different to the Planet 4 Engineers World, and WHY that Bio-Mechanical Technology is connected to the Xenomorph to some degree.

The reveals so FAR are not as ALIEN or HR Giger or Lovecraftian as what the Derelict/Space Jockey Scene seemed to look/indicate back in 1979

I think we need to be introduced to something more ALIEN and that has more of that HR Giger Aesthetic, this could be a reveal of a Ancient Order of beings/machines that are above the Engineers.  which i feel using Elements of WHO the Starbeast was could be used to cover this Higher Power.

Regardless... i think ONE Big Question from Prometheus before we got the Prequels was WHEN/WHERE and HOW/WHY did those Prometheus Engineers get their Technology and WHY it looked different to the OPENING Scene Engineers and Teardrop Ship.

I think its this HISTORY that is more Important, than the reveal of the Xenomorph and about David... but i guess something we should ask about this HISTORY is...

Should it REMAIN a Mystery?

... as we all know what happened when they decided to show us HOW the Xenomorph was Created and going the route of WHEN/HOW the Space Jockey/Derelict ended up on LV-426

In Hindsight maybe that should have been kept a Mystery as Prometheus intended.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-11-2018 12:06 PM

I think we have to go back to that Very ALIEN Scene and our First Encounter with what at the Time was a very Alien event.

The DERELICT, SPACE JOCKEY and the EGG CHAMBER

The Movie ALIEN introduced us to this Very Alien looking Ship, its somewhat Alien looking Pilot, then the Egg Cargo Hold that leads us to that Very Alien Organism.

At the time of ALIEN it was a Mystery and all we knew was that the Xenomorph Organism came from the Cargo Hold (or what appeared to be) of that Derelict Ship were the almost Skeletal looking Dead Pilot appeared to be connected to the Pilot Chair.  We DID-NOT know where he was FROM, where he was GOING or what he was DOING with that Cargo... only that he had likely SUFFERED the same Fate at the hands of that Cargo as the Crew-member Kane of the USCSS Nostromo had.

The Franchise and especially with ALIENS (Xenomorph Hive/Egg Room) did show us that the Xenomorph appeared to have a similar Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic to the Derelict Space Craft, so we could assume they are connected.  Which then would conclude that our Pilot is Connected also. 

===================================

At the Time and After ALIEN we have had Ridley Scott give us some insight into the Derelict/Space Jockey.

*He had confirmed the Space Jockey is a Space Suit.

*He had confirmed the Derelict was some kind of Military Craft that was carrying a form of Biological Warfare.

Thus with the similar Aesthetic of the Derelict/Xenomorph it was indicated that the Ship/Cargo belong to the Space Jockey Race and was used for Biological Warfare but it was never revealed against WHO.

==================================

But we had another insight into the Derelict/Space Jockey and Egg Cargo from the Late HR Giger.  Were his Concept Works for the movie (included those not used) and his Mural had indicated the following.

*There was a connection Aesthetically between the Derelict Ship and its Cargo, more so that they are connected at the Molecular Level, even hinting maybe the Eggs come from the Ship (Mural)

*He had envisioned that the Cargo Hold would Produce the Eggs via Bio-Mechanical Apparatus were his unused Mural was to be placed above each of these.

*He suggested that the Derelict Ships are Grown and Plantlike.

*His concept works and Mural indicated that Bald Humanoid beings with Space Suits not to dissimilar from the Space Jockey would seemingly Self-Sacrifice themselves to Procreate the Deadly Xenomorph Organism/Weapon.

This could leave us wondering what is the Relationship between those Humanoid Pilots and the Ships and their Related Cargo....

Are those Humanoids the Space Jockey Race? and are the Xenomorphs and Derelict Ships their Creation/Bio-Weapons?

Are those Ships/Cargo the Creation of some other Species and are those Humanoids some kind of Slave Race, or form some kind of Symbiotic Relationship with the Ship/Cargo and its Creators.

These formed the BIG MYSTERY were the Movie showed us a little, and its comments from Ridley Scott that gave us more clues, and maybe HR Gigers comments and Concept works could have given us even more..

It seemed the Plot had changed from what the STARBEAST had began with which was the Foundation to what Evolved into the ALIEN draft and then the Movie we got in 1979.  Here however are the differences between STARBEAST and what we had seen in ALIEN.

*The Dead Pilot (Space Jockey) was not a Race connected to the Starbeast (Xenomorph) they and their Derelict Ship were just a Giant Alien Race who had came across the Starbeast via the remaining Egg/Spore part of their Life-Cycle and the Occupants of the Derelict had attempted to take some of these Eggs/Spores back for Study before they succumbed to the Starbeast.

*The Starbeast (Xenomorph) are discovered via the Egg/Spore stage of the Life-Cycle, these are located inside a Pyramid Temple that was constructed by this Alien Species to be used as a Ritual Birthing Chamber for their Species, which required a Host to Procreate their kind.

*The Starbeast (Xenomorph) was thus a Civilized Culture to a degree, and a Intelligent species who held the Procreation of their Species with high Esteem and Conducted Ceremonies inside those Pyramids/Temples.  At some point in the past all Hosts had been exhausted and the Starbeast Species Disapeared, only leaving behind the Eggs/Spores part of their Life-Cycle which could remain Dormant for a Very Long Time..

The Starbeast had gone through a number of designs before HR Giger came along to give us the Xenomorph, the Unsuspecting Giant Travelers who stumbled upon the Starbeast had now been changed into a more Alien Species connected to the Starbeast.

But prior to those changes the Starbeast had influences in its appearance to Cephalopods/Molluscs and indeed a very HP Lovecraftian look to them.  A Intelligent Species that maybe you could make connections to the Elder Things from the Cthulhu Mythos by HP Lovecraft.   

HOW THIS HAD CHANGED.... to what we got in Alien.

The Prequels attempted to answer some of this Mystery, it borrowed some Elements from Starbeast (Temple, Urns, Octopoid Face Hugger) with Alien Engineers seemingly trying to combine elements of what RS had envisioned and mentioned about the Space Jockey and Derelict with some of what Starbeast had shown and by that it indicated to a degree a Plot like the Giant Race who found the Temple/Pyramid in Starbeast, by indicating the Engineers had discovered a Organism not too dissimilar to the Starbeast and they then began to Experiment and Re-Engineer this Organism to make Biological Warfare which included the Xenomorph.

This Plot was more loosely covered in Prometheus but was clouded more by its ambiguity.

WE THEN ARRIVE.....

At what ever changes had happened to turn any Answers to the Engineers, the Bio-Weapon and LV-223 into what we got in Alien Covenant which seemed to Steer it more away from the very ALIEN and somewhat Lovecraftian ideas that Starbeast and Alien had, that Alien Engineers and to a lesser degree Paradise (Prometheus) had seemed to follow.

WE NEED to get back to those Lovecraftian ideas, as Prometheus and Alien Engineers (earlier draft) had set up something related to Starbeast and At the Mountains of Madness....  something that has now been LOST with the direction of Alien Covenant!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Nov-19-2018 7:38 AM

BD: I think that it is interesting why the Engineers started to create Deacon-looking life-forms. The mural was interesting and gives a lot to think about. It is ambiguous so it can be looked at in many ways.

“David has a great admiration for his Creation, it could be those Engineers had the same regarding what they did on LV-223”

He he, I would like if David realized that his version is just a bad copy of what came before. Imagine him having a break-down over that, LOL. The idea behind the mural should be explained a bit, it could be interesting like you said. Obviously it had some importance in Prometheus so I would like to know a bit about what it means. Just having it there to show a picture of a Deacon does not make sense and as a nod to the fans it would be lame, it should be there for a purpose. My hope is that the Engineers have done something similar before so David 1) just develops it or 2) copies it. David should not be creating the Xenos as we know it or be as involved in it as it is now.

“WHAT would those who had Ordered the Experiments/Mural on LV-223 have thought about David and his Xenomorph?”

Maybe they understand that a robot with such free-will is dangerous but that they appreciate the beast as a weapon? They keep the monster but go on a mission to kill David? That would be interesting to see so they finally get him so David dies. This is something that I would like to see, not something obvious like David getting killed by his creation.

I would like to see the Engineers adding the bio-mechanical thing. I do not want David to do so that because it would upset me a bit. He already has a too big of a role, don’t totally destroy the prequels by making it bigger. I am totally fine with the Engineers being responsible for the final version so hopefully they will stick to that if we get another movie.

They should at least show us a little of the Engineer society and that if we get another movie. Human characters are first but some about the Engineer society would be nice. Have them in more than flashbacks, thank you very much. Make the last movie into two if needed.

“What we STILL dont know is WHY the Engineers on LV-223 and the Juggernauts have a connection to the Derelict and Space Jockey... we know they are connected and maybe the SAME but then what we dont know is WHY does that Bio-Mechanical Technology appear to look so different to the Planet 4 Engineers World, and WHY that Bio-Mechanical Technology is connected to the Xenomorph to some degree.”

Different factions with different tasks? Some of them live a simpler life and some of them might be more militaristic. Look at the Mayan or what ever where they had warriors, priests and so on. This could be something similar and something that I find interesting. Unfortunately we got very little of the Engineers in AC but they responded wrong to the criticism against Prometheus. I would really like to see more of this.

“The reveals so FAR are not as ALIEN or HR Giger or Lovecraftian as what the Derelict/Space Jockey Scene seemed to look/indicate back in 1979”

Which is a shame, I think that they need to do something that is closer to that no matter if it will cost more money. We had pressure suit Engineer in Prometheus and the peasants in AC. I would like to see more of the Prometheus ones in the next movie if there is one. Unfortunately those in AC did not look very scary, that was another disappointment.

“Regardless... i think ONE Big Question from Prometheus before we got the Prequels was WHEN/WHERE and HOW/WHY did those Prometheus Engineers get their Technology and WHY it looked different to the OPENING Scene Engineers and Teardrop Ship.”

That is interesting but I think that their connection to the Xeno is something that I am more interested in. This is not to say that it is irrelevant where they got their technology from. I would be fine if we see their technology and how they use that to get different monsters, like some lab kind of thing. You can grow bacteria in a lab and use that as bio-weapons so that could be a way that the Engineers did. I would like to see more about their military structure, their science, and so on even though there are just small bits of it. (Story and characters are first.)

“Should it REMAIN a Mystery?”

It could be hinted at, for example if they have a lab where they do monsters you can see a sign above the door but we never see how it looks inside the lab but then we see them go out from there with some bio-weapon of some kind. This is something that I would accept, but I do not accept David as the one that did the final version of the Xeno. Engineers are strong so I do not see how they could fall victims to small monsters, but as far as evolved monsters that is a possibility like if a monster developed in the cargo and got to the SJ then it would make total sense.

“In Hindsight maybe that should have been kept a Mystery as Prometheus intended.”

I would much rather have that than what we got in A

C.

I like the idea of the SJ as a carrier of bio-bombs (eggs). Maybe they could go back to what was unknown about the derelict and come up with some mystery parts from there? Perhaps there are things about it that never was considered but that could be important that we never get our answers to, what ever that might be.

My understanding of the derelict is that it was a pilot that carried the eggs in his ship (bombs). At one time at least one creature got loose and infected the pilot. Before he got chest-busted he sent out a warning signal and then he died.

As far as who the life-form that was the pilot we know very little about who they were. This is a plus since they introduced the Engineers but since they have not showed us very much of them there is still time to decide if the pilot is an Engineer or some other higher up in the hierarchy (like a relative) or another life-form.

Yeah I did not lisle that they had less Lovecraftian (mysterious) parts in AC. It never worked for me mainly because it made David seemingly responsible for the Xeno which made it less alien so to speak. They should get that mystery back in some way (think about the feeling that we get when we saw the derelict for the first time/times).

It is a bit sad that Prometheus was too loose/ambiguous because if it would have been a bit better then maybe we wouldn’t have got Alien Covenant. I agree about getting back to the Lovecraftian ideas.

BigDave

Nov-19-2018 7:57 AM

"He he, I would like if David realized that his version is just a bad copy of what came before."

I think a Theme in the Prequels is the Pursuit of Perfection

Imagine what these would be GODS or their Hierarchy would think if they Discovered that the Creation that is Mankind have Created a more Perfect Being in David, than the Creators of Mankind had done with Humans.  And then how they would react to seeing that this Creation by Mankind has gone and Perfected the Creation of those Engineers on LV-223 (Deacon). 

What David has done fits within the Theme...  But ALAS its still not ALIEN enough to have David as the Creator of the Xenomorph and so for  a Race who Created those Engineers or the Engineers themselves.... these Genetic Gardeners of Space could be looking at TWO very Near Perfection Creations.

David and his Xenomorph.   I think the Logical Solution is to then show these other beings, Manipulate David and the Xenomorph and so in doing so THEY create the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph a Amalgamation of David and his Creation.

The Ancient Xenomorph route i think maybe could be replaced by something else, i think its best to CLOSE the Door on the Xenomorph...

But allow for something NEW as far as the History that predates those Engineers, their Technology, the Black Goo and why Aesthetically the Technology/Black Goo has connections to the Derelict.

I think introducing a completely different looking MASTER Race is the way to Go.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Nov-28-2018 12:27 PM

I would have liked to see the holographic playback of the alien spacecraft control room from the "datasticks" ali81 in the STARBEAST script.

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