History is repeating itself. After PROMETHEUS we discovered script aspects, alternate and deleted scenes, unused concepts, practical versus CGI effects-that Fifield scene and a host of other information which had some of us scratching our heads and wondering why on earth many of those were left out of the finished film.
Now, I happen to love PROMETHEUS, yet I fully understand the shortcomings of the theatrical release and why many people dislike it. As far as I am concerned, the absolutely magnificent The Furious Gods is the proof of the epic masterpiece that should have been.
For anyone not familiar with that epic making of, [which was only made available on the 3D Blu-ray release] who would like to know more, please try and borrow a copy from friends, I promise, it will be time well invested.
Anyway, it is the best proof of the need for an extended cut of the film. The material is there. As an aside, therein, script writer John Spaights actually divulges that it was the Fox execs who decided to dial back on the Alien aspects and focus on the Engineers, not Ridley Scott.
I was pretty much underwhelmed by the concept of Gigers wondrous Space Jockey being explained away as an Engineer, but hey I got on board with it and allowed myself to become fully invested in this new and epic story. Now fast forward to A L I E N: COVENANT and we find ourselves in familiar territory as it appears that Ridley has literally pathogen bombed everything he set up in that previous interesting tributary. Why?
Details are beginning to emerge which show a different looking COVENANT was intended. Seems that many things were dumped or changed during production. Yet another u-turn!
The Art and Making of Alien Covenant includes incredible artwork and practical suit designs. The lack of budget, which is another thing I cannot understand, especially given how well PROMETHEUS did, appears to have taken its toll on the final screen look of some of the creature designs.
The Alien was once a beautiful, bizarre creature. Now just as portrayed in the other franchise chapters, even in COVENANT it has lost all of it’s ability to shock and scare. So why even include it if it can't be done well?
In the recent AVP Podcast, participant Xenomorphine told us that during a conversation he had with Creature Effects Supervisor Conor O’Sullivan the original intent was to bring to life Giger’s Necronomicon IV Alien, not the more human-like Alien we are familiar with. Pity, I was longing for that, because the clapperboards had teased it! That could have been different and awesome, another missed opportunity.
Another potential epic has lost its way. Perhaps an extended cut would please people more? Now we have had the Giger-verse and the Lovecraftian-influenced, O’Bannon mystery virtually wiped out. Both films have been derailed to an extent. I feel that Ridley is allowing his vision and reputation to be ruined. Something is very wrong!
It is my goal to improve on the work of other fan edits someday and construct one of my own for Prometheus and Covenant. The best Prometheus edit so far has been Agent 9's cut, but it's only 95% close to perfection. When someone does a fan edit for Covenant, I'm hoping there's a wealth of deleted/extended scenes worthy of inclusion and he/she incorporates the Last Supper and Crossing prologues.
Lone - Brilliant!!!!
Its tough because a:c was a decent enough film - when you know what it is. Its an action flick that could easily be a standalone and sits with 1000s of films like it.
This sort of film is not enough for its core fans and after setting up Prometheus in the way they did, then to follow it with a story like this just confuses me.
We can see how a:c has affected the mood on this site.
If another prequel is made, it will be the last opportunity for FOX to please fans of the franchise. I just think another dud will be too much for the majority of fans who have been let down more than enough. It will be a now or never situation.
I personally am giving it another chance but we do need some reward next time out. Or this surely will of been a waste of a passion for most of us.
Can we get the extended version with the 20 mins of footage that was cut????
That would go some way to comforting the fans before the next outing
Personally i would love the whole lot of footage. 3 hours is fine by me. if we can discover something about this universe that was lost to an edit, it will be a glorious addition to our BR collections!!
Take This.... This is the blood of our lord
Wholeheartedly agree Sherris!!
I know that Ridley has an epic art house-blockbuster left in him! I'm just not so sure he will ever be allowed to make it, given the restictions which have all too obviously been placed on him!
FOX have always been afraid of the Giger aesthetic, it remains the same today.
I view that as their biggest mistake. They have moved further and further away from that ideal. We will never see a Giger-planet, a Giger-world, inhabited by those strangely shaped, beautiful creatures. That was my dream, at one time I thought it might have been Ridleys too!
How incredible it would be. the "giger world" you mention.
I dont think it is an unrealistic dream you have. The information and design is there to see and to enjoy. and of course, inspire. It would of been a TRULY dark and mysterious world!
That idea delivered perfectly would be a sight the viewer will never forget.
Take This.... This is the blood of our lord
Well said Lone. I just hope that at some point in the future there could be proper extended cuts available. Too mush has been ripped out from the final visions Scott has wanted us to see and I totally agree with you that there is something very wrong.
I have to agree with sherris, that the next movie cannot afford to be a dud. It will either kill or cure the franchise.
I actually really like the more human/animal like Xenomorph we saw in Covenant. When it stood upright right before chasing the ship I could almost feel Ridley Scott breathing behind my neck, whispering "here it is, in all its glory".
Sure, the ending sequence felt a bit rushed (and so did the CGI), but I still found it enjoyable overall.
I do hope there's extra material on the Covenant blu-ray that provides information. I really want to know what David meant when he said "I learned of their ways".
Totally agree Lone ;)
I think the deleted scenes could make a big difference, but more so is the amount of unused ideas and concepts and the drafts for Prometheus that if used in some part could have made a big difference.
AC has 20 Min extra Footage, it will be interesting to see what this footage is, but it appears the Xenomorph/Neomorph Killing Scenes had a few cuts, as did the Xenomorph on the Covenant. It appears a the Davids interaction with the crew when they are inside the Cathederal and Hall of Heads had extended parts cut too.
We know the Cabin Shot with Record player likely from Daniels looking out the window on the Covenant and thinking of the Cabin on a Lake with Jacob then we get a Flash Back with them in their New York Apartment.
But i wonder what else was cut?
I know they did a few different shoots/re-shoots for a number of Scenes to, so as well as 20 Minutes cut Footage we could well have a number of Alternatives too.
Will we see these? who knows as there are a lot of scenes shot for Prometheus that never made the extras as well.
I hear that RS/FOX dont intend to do a Extended or Directors Cut again... and so we may have to rely on Fan Edits again.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I really cant wait to see all the concepts and unused props and i would not mind coming across a Paglen/Green Draft where we can see how the Necronom 4/Ultramorph would have been used.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Absolutely agree!! Which likely doesn't surprise anyone. :)
*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*
Unless you're willing and able to pay to make an entire movie yourself, or somehow convince the studio execs to give you free reign (that never happens, by the way), you'll always be making concessions and giving in to those that hold the purse strings.
Some people here are writing their own fan fiction. Great. But, if by some chance they wanted to make a movie of your story, you would barely recognize it by the time that the executives have mangled it.
my old profile : oduodu
Thanks for your replies everyone!
I just want to point out that I do like Covenent, but I feel that as with Prometheus, much has been left out which could have added to the story, had things make more sense, made both films feel far more epic. At the end of the day I think that was Ridley's original concept to have these films be grand, epic, masterpieces.
I really don't get why Ridley insists on having a 2 hour run-time. Theses films deserve and need more time for expansion and extrapolation. Does he/Fox really think that we wouldn't sit through a 3 hour film after years of investment? I know the fanbase is now more splintered than ever, but surely there are still enough people who want to see Ridley's true vision play out?
Dave I can't wait for the extras either! Roll on the DVD/Blu-Ray release. Sadly I feel you are right about an extended cut of Prometheus, if we were to get one I think it would have happened by now. I live in hope that the reaction to Covenant might kick-start that possibility!
That is a deleted scene where Millburn and Fifield come across the hammerpede's shedded skin.
Or do you mean the one below that? It's another deleted scene where Millburn finds an indigenous flatworm and takes it for sampling.
I still don't understand what the F Scott and Fox were thinking when they cut these scenes. They would have done the movie so much better.
My biggest disappointment is with the Fifield Xeno scene and that they cut out the scene when they found that space worm.
If it makes the movie better to have it longer than two hours then why not doing that? Who decide about these things?
I expect there are some scenes that would have been better left in Covenant that Ridley cut, just as there were with Prometheus. The one thing I don't like about Ridley is that he cuts too much, even going back to the original Alien, with the cut cocoon-egg scene.
There was so much good material in Prometheus that got the axe, and numerous scenes left in that should have been cut. I loved Prometheus, but there is a better movie there that can be made from what is available.
The Agent 9 Special Edition almost got there, but he went way overboard and removed scenes that I thought should have been left in, like the prologue of the Engineer sacrificing himself and David watching Shaw's dreams. Some of the deleted scenes from the Blue Ray he added back had some nice clean up, color correction, and finished sound though, so it is possible to take that work and make a new edit with less of the original movie hacked out.
I dont understand why Fox and Ridley dont release a director's cut as we had it for all 4 Alien movies before.
I dont want thw deleted scenes watchable in the special section but as a full extended movie version.
The theatrical cuts of Prometheus and Covenant are Ridley's "Directors Cuts", and we did not have a DC of Alien 3, by the way. The director had nothing to do with the extended cut that was released of A3.
Fox asked Ridley for and "extended" cut of Prometheus back in 2012 and he refused because the theatrical version is his “Director’s Cut”. That was the exact movie he wanted released.
I think the ONE thing we are all MISSING....IS
*Hands up who would love to see a 3 hour movie, fitting more stuff in?
*Hands up who would like to cover Prometheus a bit more?
*Hands up who would not like to cover Prometheus parts more but want Straight up Xenomorphs.
THE LAST TWO Points show how Split the Fanbase is, so what flick can please ALL?
One that would need a longer Run time for Sure... so if we had a TWO Part Movie after Prometheus that would be 2.5-3 hours each, maybe they would do justice... and cover more of what we want to see.
HANDS UP WHO WOULD LIKE THAT!!!!
Then it would need a Larger Budget....
*Hands up who would like to had seen TWO back to back Sequels with a combined $300-400M Budget?
YOUR WISH IS GRANTED...
$350M Budget TWO movies 5.5 hours Run Time..
*Hands up who would go and see this at the Cinema?
Now take every Franchise Fan who Put their Hands up and pay to see this... everyone of us watches them Once at the Box Office, 50% return for a 2nd viewing and 15% a 3rd viewing.
would this double a $350M Budget?
Sadly i doubt it.... so they need to get the General Public, and Sci-Fi fans to come and see the Movies, open it up to wider Audience so they can make that Money Back.
Sadly this General Audience would not go and see a Alien movie if they had to sit through 5.5 hours Total over 2 movies.
This is how FOX see it.... hence lower Screen Run-times...
*Hands up who would loved to see more Gore than AC? and Prometheus to also be more Horrific and both Movies needing to be Cert 18?
Again this would lower the potential Audience... hence why Prometheus was a Cert 12-13 year olds and Alien Covenant Cert 15 year olds..
Sadly this is not what a lot of us Fans want... but its what FOX feels will allow more people to go and see the movies and make more $$$
Simply making $$$ is whats important, rather than giving us a Movie that pleases the Fans that is Cert 18, 2.5-3 hours each movie. A bigger Budget of $150-180M each to do it Justice.
Yes we the fans would be happy, but FOX would maybe not Break Even and would have to rely on DVD/Blu-Ray Sales to rake back their Money.
Sadly this is the TRUTH :(
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
But extending upon that post....
They could cut it down for the Box Office... but then add more scenes that add the run time and would require a higher Age Limit for DVD/Blu-Ray Release.
RS however seems to like the movies how they was cut, Prometheus was his Directors Cut, and Alien Covenant it appears wont have no real added scenes... Maybe we could see a few extended death scenes though?
Because doing so would make FOX more money on DVD/Blu-Ray etc Sales... But i think they think they can make good return by simply adding these things to the DVD/Blu-Ray Extras.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I'm sure Fox would love a longer, extended cut of Prometheus so they could have another release to make earnings on, but Ridley was not interested in that, for reasons he and Lindeloff explained clearly back in 2012.
Whether or not Ridley will do an extended cut of AC is still to be seen. I'm sure we will get some deleted scenes on the DVD/BR release, but from what Ridley has said, it is highly unlikely he will cut together a longer version.
If there are version of it that can include scenes that make the characters look better and that will make sense of things then sure why not? Cut out dumb things and expand the characters.
As far as I know there are fan versions of Prometheus that seem to be better than the theatrical version. Maybe there will be the same with Covenant.
The tone in Covenant compared to Prometheus is very different but I find that to be good thing because I am more a fan of Alien than Prometheus.
My guess is that there will be another prequel and I will give it a chance. Hopefully it will be better than both Prometheus and AC although I think that AC did a lot better job than Prometheus.
I would like to see the cut scenes from AC, that would be interesting.
Lone: As far as 2 hours is concerned, if the movie makes more sense while being maybe two and a half hours then I would gladly watch the longer version. Having a movie that makes somewhat sense is the most important things (including well done characters).
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