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No security protocol for incoming starship

1 Upvotes17 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
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Tdby

Jun-12-2017 6:04 AM

Its good to know. So if we discover tech. Advanced alien life form in future all we hawe to do capture one of their starships and we can just get close like 500ft. To their planet surface and drop what ever we want as they going to celebrate our arrival.

17 Responses to No security protocol for incoming starship

AdamPD

Jun-12-2017 6:22 AM

There was probably some security system active, as the scorpion dock thing was moving across the court yard to the central position

So David probably sent the right command(s) to initiate the docking procedure.

And given that both the scorpodock and juggernaut were crashed, something must've happened when he attacked the planet (perhaps a tad late, mind you lol)

BigDave

Jun-12-2017 7:08 AM

It was confirmed in other thread the Docking Ship and Juggernaught had a Dust Up... after the Bombardment which lead to both Ships Crashing.

This OT is something pondered a few times and it does raise some Questions which indeed are a bit odd if we assume the following.

1) This is the Home-world to the Engineers and their Hiearchy

2) These Engineers/Beings know the Juggernaughts are Warships and they have the Black Goo Cargo.

Then yes the reception that David's Ship got would be odd and maybe it would be like a returning of Soldiers/Navy from Conflict in our World... but then we have to wonder how these beings could not be even a bit concerned that a Ship has arrived after maybe a long period of time.  And then do they know this ship came from LV-223..

Do they know what happened to LV-223?

These Questions are all important if we are considering they are aware this is a Warship, as if they did know about LV-223 surely its a bit odd to have a ship return some 2000 years after its intended mission.

If this is a Warship and they are aware of it as such, we dont know what kind of communications David has given to the Docking Ship or Paradise prior to his arrival.

I can only assume these Engineers etc are so arrogant and naive that they simply see there Engineer Ships as a sign of their power and they simply dont believe other Humanoid Races would ever get as advanced to pose any Interstellar threat, maybe because they keep check on Worlds they Seed and Destroy Worlds in Advance they see as threats.

So its beyond their wildest dreams that any other Race apart from their own could gain control of any of their ships.

A PROBLEM however is if these Engineers have at some point had any internal conflicts, if there has been any War/Conflict between Factions then surely they would be more Cautious.

If however all Engineer Factions are assumed to the best of their knowledge to all be ON THE SAME PAGE this would help explain why they seemed to relaxed.

They assume...

*There is not conflict within their society and so never no threat from their own kind.

*There are no other Races that can obtain and use their Engineer Technology so any Engineer ship must be Piloted by one of their own.

Ev Shippard and Wayne Haagg had mentioned the Docking Ship was like a Coast Guard.

And so i assume these Engineers Ships can travel at very vast speeds and so Davids Juggernaught would not have been detected until it was right close to the Planet and then entered the Atmosphere and the Docking ship intercepted it as some kind of Border Control.  But David had already started to Bombard the City soon after connecting.

It would seem that something in the Hanger detected a Engineer Ship and Opened up the Hanger, or David was able to activate the Hanger upon arrival.

But indeed surely there would be some Procedures in place so that this Planet has some Device that disables their Ships Ability to unleash Payloads while in the Planets Atmosphere or at least when the Docking Ship Docks with a incoming Juggernaught then it overrides the Juggernauts controls.

But alas...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-12-2017 7:15 AM

The only other explanation is that this World is not the Home-world of the Order/Race above the Engineers and this place is a Planet where Humanoids/Engineers are kept where the purpose is to be Ritually Sacrificed.

A Ship arrives and collects Sacrifices and then leaves to allow these chosen Engineers to perform this Ritual to Seed Worlds.

These Engineers/beings are thus either welcoming the return of their Hierarchy or are welcoming them for a Sacrificial Ritual which must be a great Honor for this Culture.

They either dont know the full purpose of the Juggernauts and just realize they are Engineer/Elder Technology or that these Juggernauts had the Purpose of being Sacrificial Seeding Ships... where Engineers are chosen and Sacrificed and the broken down Material Stored in those Urns as a Evolution of the Seeding Procedure that we saw at the Start of Prometheus.

The LV-223 Engineers however had came into contact with a Organism that created the first Xeno-strain offspring and these Engineers then worshiped this result and experimented on the Organisms and eventually created the Deacon and then Sacrificed its DNA to be stored in the Urns.

And so was using the Ships for a unintended Purpose.

This is the only other real logical explanation i can give.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

suwhited

Jun-12-2017 8:05 AM

@BigDave. I talked about this before in another thread...

BLUF: This is just another example of the gaping plot holes from AC.  The initial problem for this whole scenario is that David shouldn't be even able to fly their ships in the first place. It makes no sense that an advanced galaxy spanning ancient civilization doesn't have bio-metric pilot locks on their ships! In other words, if you ain't Engineer, you ain't flying the Juggernaut...!

Top it off, are there no protocols for verification for a military ship entry at a valuable "port of call?"  What about prevent protocols for "dumping a load" (figuratively and literally), the same way Nuke subs can't fire off a nuke when it's portside in the states...

To me this was sloppy writing...

Maybe I am nitpicking, but it totality left the audience befuddled...

BigDave

Jun-12-2017 8:14 AM

Kind of Sloppy i agree...

But Ultimately its all about Plot Devices to drive the Plot Along, that without such things, we would have seen a Prometheus sequel where David and Shaw have to wait and find some place to stay for a few years while waiting for a rescue ship.  Or even a Engineer Ship to come and investigate (which would leave a Plot Hole for the Franchise)

Sometimes things have to be done to drive a story, for example if the Covenant had a 20 Man Military Team and 10 Synthetics.

They went down and explored Paradise and then discovered the horrors and then radio to the Covenant this place is a No Go... then we would not have had the movie we got..

David would have been left all alone to play with his Flute and Rocks lol

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Gralen

Jun-12-2017 8:24 AM

@BigDave

This is in no way their homeworld.

Not enough infrastructure on the surface or surface buildings/orbital structures/aircrafts/ changed landspace because of the local lifeforms influence.

This planet 4 looks like earth 2k years ago with much untainted land and few big metropoles.

Sorry, i cant and will not consider this as a Homeworld of an ancient species which has traveled probably to other galaxies and colonized hundreds of other worlds (including mini outposts).

RS ruined a nice idea with that 2 minute flashback scene.

MonsterZero

Jun-12-2017 9:02 AM

@Gralen

Yup. This was not a homeworld of a galaxy spawning civ.

No orbiting stations/ships/satellites. Nothing.

They could have been taken out by a suitcase nuke or a small army.....North Korea would clean them up in 10 minutes.

This is what I'd envision for their homeworld...

      From a safe distance(1 light year), David and Shaw surveyed the Engineers homeworld.
        They had sent probes to the massive planet. The results were staggering. Thousands of large cities. David estimated the total carbon based life forms to be 580 billion. A hundred million starships orbited the giant.

Gralen

Jun-12-2017 9:13 AM

@MonsterZero

Interesting. Is this from a novel or a own thought how it could be?

I dont imagined it to be that extreme in quantities but much more then we would expect compared to earth.

We can agree that if David's Juggernaut attempted to arrive at their real homeworld with that deadly cargo on it, it would not even reach the atmosphere of the Planet or the near orbit.

Maybe destroyed millions of kilometers before reaching it by long range weapons / countermeasures.

MonsterZero

Jun-12-2017 9:20 AM

@Gralen

No. Just fan fic stuff.

David would have been vaporised...but he could have hacked the IFF system and maybe slammed the Juggernaut into the crowd.

But if were using hard/soft science.....David could have towed/propelled an asteroid to light speed and let it fall/drop/slam on planet 4 ...no need to even get near the city..just light the planet on fire.

suwhited

Jun-12-2017 9:27 AM

@MonsterZero. Stop.

Too much real science will cause our heads to explode. Literally.

Seriously, the kinetic energy from a small towed asteroid would have done the job much more quickly and efficiently...

@Gralen. Thank you.

"...We can agree that if David's Juggernaut attempted to arrive at their real homeworld with that deadly cargo on it, it would not even reach the atmosphere of the Planet or the near orbit.

Maybe destroyed millions of kilometers before reaching it by long range weapons / countermeasures...."

Seems to me, that producers think us fans are stupid and incapable of rationale assessments..

MonsterZero

Jun-12-2017 1:14 PM

Alien: The Battle for Planet 4!

1973: ABC Movie of the Week

    Captain Oram's(John Saxon)plan to attack the Engineers base is upset when Sgt Lope(George Kennedy)is captured! Will the captain make a deal with Engineer Runeech(David Hartman)for the return of his Seargent?  ---90min.

 

 

BlackGooDrinker

Jun-12-2017 2:18 PM

I wouldnt call them a warship since they dont carry any defense systems at all and are vulnerable to say the least.

I think these ships are meant to make, wipe out, or upgrade species with the black goo.

Is there an agenda the mods are not telling us about? ;)

BigDave

Jun-12-2017 4:59 PM

This is why i think a lot overlook the whole Paradise Connection.

And we have to also look at where the Engineer came from in Prometheus, he claimed he came from Paradise.  Now we need to consider if we asked a African American or a European American (that dont sound right but i dont want to make this seem like a Racial Point) anyway if you asked a African American where they are from.. they would likely say i am from the USA.... but really he is from Africa, and a majority of other Americans are from Europe..

So my point being this Particular Engineer came from Paradise and it does not mean that Paradise is where there Race is based or Originated from.

We need to look at the Paradise Connection as far as Biblical Account which is connected to the Paradise Lost Poem.

*Paradise is not where GOD comes from or dwells

*Paradise is not where ANGELS come from.

*Paradise is the Location of the Garden of Eden

*Paradise is where the Cradle of Civilization began (Mankind)

*Paradise is Guarded/Watched over by Cherubim Angels

If we look at the place like this, then it makes more perfect sense... and Thus the Engineers on LV-223 were either a earlier Humanoid Race who was used by the Elders/Hierarchy to be collected from Paradise to be used to Seed Worlds.

Or they was the Watchers over beings on Paradise.

Which ever of the above applies, they had Rebelled and got expelled from Paradise or simply had decided to do rebellious things against the will of the Hierarchy on LV-223

Then again they could go the route that this is not Paradise, as Paradise was described to me a bit different to what we see in the movie... slightly different.

Its as if a few of what i was told had been evolved/changed a little bit.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Batchpool

Jun-12-2017 5:18 PM

@ Big Dave I like your point about where someone comes from, as there are a number of variables such a statement can imply.

One explanation as to why there did not appear to be any security protocols could be a result of arrogance. The planet from what we know was off the grid from Weyland Industries, which suggests to me that it was cloaked. That in itself is a security measure. Maybe the Engineers were arrogant enough to think that it would be impossible for someone or something other than themselves to pilot one of their vessels. This could have been their Achilles Heel. The Engineers probably have the idea that they are the dominant life form in the universe and to consider anything else capable of equalling them is unthinkable, so a security protocol was not considered necessary.

suwhited

Jun-12-2017 5:51 PM

@Batchpool.

Let's not confuse arrogance with stupid. It's arrogant to think you are a superior race and no other civilization has the level of comprehension to understand your technology.

It's would be stupid of them to rely on "belief" alone as a deterrent. Any advanced civilization would have multiple layers of biogenic, eugenics, neural, and emphatic testing to ensure their pilots and their pilots only would be flying this ship.  They didn't make it that far as a galactic spanning civilization being stupid..

"I-Robot" from a backwaters planet ain't gonna get it done..

Batchpool

Jun-12-2017 6:04 PM

@suwhited

Any advanced civilization would have multiple layers of biogenic, eugenics, neural, and emphatic testing to ensure their pilots and their pilots only would be flying this ship.

And that is my point, because somehow all those safeguards had been bypassed somehow by David. The arrogance is in thinking that all those safeguards to pilot a ship in the first place could not be circumvented. Which in turn leads me to think that the Engineers may have felt that the ship security protocols would be sufficient, but they were'nt.

Blackwinter-witch

Jun-12-2017 6:47 PM

The juggernauts aren't warships, they're basically 'cropdusters'. So far as we know there's only two Interstellar-capable species:
Engineers
Humans
Thus they'd have either no security precautions as they'd never have needed them before.
OR
It's an example of how no security is ever 'Absolute'.

*Man's giant leap was just a stumble in the dark.*

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