Jun-10-2017 9:49 AM
There is few points..
1. As a interstellar civilisation, how they not able to detect and hail incoming starship to their planet?
2. Isnt there any kind of communication and landing protocol for star ships to enter planets athmosphere.
3. I just cant belive million years old civilisation who control star systens doesnt hawe military force in their home planets orbit as defender.
Jun-10-2017 9:55 AM
I'm guessing that David sent a signal and fooled The Engineers into thinking that the ship was piloted by one of their own people. Also, it was one of their own ships, so perhaps that's why they didn't attack it. Just guessing, of course.
Jun-10-2017 12:01 PM
I was thinking about similar questions, problems, when i watched the film.
If David's arrival was just detected and he didnt send any signal, in this situation i'm sure The Engineers were more careful. At least if i imagine myself in their situation, im pretty sure i would check every data of that ship. So ín this point you are probably right, David sent a signal. Hé knew basically what happened on lv-223, so hé could fool that people.
Anyways, when i watched the film, i was also thinking about, that it's not that engineer race that we saw in the prometheus. There were many discussion about that problem, i dont want to repeat them. Just i noticed, if they wasnt that engineer race, they could greet the ship and its crew like their "gods". Because they were never harmed by them, they didnt think about defense. Maybe David didnt need to send any signal át all in this case.
Ín these films, especially in the prometheus and the covenant there are a lot of interpretation possibilities, so almost every theory could be right.
I Moon Girl
Jun-10-2017 12:09 PM
Maybe Ridley Scott just thinks the fans will logically connect the dots and figure it out. Of course, he apparently said that those people David bombed are The Engineers. He may just be leading us down the wrong path on that one. I think they are a civilization which worships the actually Engineers.
Jun-10-2017 4:05 PM
It certainly raises Questions....
The LV-223 Engineers could be more advanced, but surely the Seeding Engineers are also just as Advanced, we see the Scorpion Docking Ship looks just as Advanced as LV-223 Engineer Technology.
So its a bit odd if this scene is these beings welcoming back a returning Military Ship, as this opens up a lot of Questions, unless these Ships regularly depart on Military missions across the Galaxy and these beings are so arrogant/naive that they feel their race are the only ones who poses this Technology and know how to use it and so there would be no Questions of Doubts in their minds about the Potential of a Ship coming back to attack its own kind.
A better explanation is if these Juggernaught Ships are improved Seeding Ships where instead of dropping off Engineers who consume the Sacrificial Goo, they instead Sacrifice Engineers with the Goo and collect the broken down Material and Store it in the Urns to use them to be dropped down to Seed Worlds instead.
If these beings on Paradise are a Race who form part of such Rituals this would better explain their reaction.
To me its the Return of a Sacrificial Ship to collect Sacrifices which is a great honor for this Race.
Or these beings saw this as the Return of the Elders.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Jun-10-2017 5:15 PM
Good article. BLUF: This is just another example of the gaping plot holes from AC. The initial problem for this whole scenario is that David shouldn't be even able to fly there ships in the first place. It makes no sense that an advanced galaxy spanning ancient civilization doesn't have bio-metric pilot locks on their ships! In other words, if you ain't Engineer, you ain't flying the Juggernaut...!
Top it off, are there no protocols for verification for a military ship entry at a valuable "port of call?"
To me this was sloppy writing...
Maybe I am nitpicking, but it totality, it left the audiences befuddled...
Jun-11-2017 3:08 AM
I have always disliked the whole weapon like backstory. Ultimately it just cheapens the story and makes the engineers seem more like the Predator than an ultimate being. So predictable and disappointing,
Jun-11-2017 9:35 AM
Thanks for the good discussion here.
@brego: "I have always disliked the whole weapon like backstory. Ultimately it just cheapens the story and makes the engineers seem more like the Predator than an ultimate being. So predictable and disappointing,"
I agree. It would have been more interesting if The Engineers were the industrious creators of human life (but make them more "alien" than just beefed up humans), BUT create an enemy for them in the form of another alien race. Those would be the creators of the Xenomorph. Then, have the hapless humans caught in the middle.
That sort of story line would appeal to me more.
Jun-11-2017 2:25 PM
The planet 4 beings are mostly already prepared for the welcoming before the juggernaut entered the atmosphere.
I suspect they had prepared for this event for some time(could be years/months/weeks), since all of them have the traditional robes and it looks like a sacral welcome procedure which happens really rarely considerung the huge Engineer swarm beneath the scorpion.
I dont think they wear that primitive robes all day, that would be too cliche imo for that race and degrade them (considering their technology/experience).
Maybe different clothes for different "jobs". Who knows. But apparently they have farmers.. *shrug* (and make bread,beer and wine).
Jun-11-2017 2:58 PM
Its like russians capture usa aircraft carrier and dock usa shipyards without noticed by americans. Nosense.
Jun-13-2017 2:55 AM
Ok, I know they make bread... But wine?! Lol, how do you know, and if so that's awesome, I was thinking they'd wear something similar to ancient Greek or Roman clothing
Jun-13-2017 1:02 PM
Nice idea with the ancient clothes for different roles/jobs.
Wine production was just a joke. But i expect they know atleast how to make bread or grain based food.
They maybe even hunted animals to provide a bigger source of nutrients. Their diet looks similar like humans and i expect they are omnivores as well.
No other way their brain could grow to be a sentient and complex species.
Other then that im interested what that local beings are doing the whole day besides their ritualic procedures.
I mean be realistic here. They need food,water, clothes and some kind of distraction/leisure being a complex sentient humanoid lifeform.
Jun-13-2017 1:39 PM
Also, notice the scrolls with writing and drawings on them. No computerized storage or retrieval systems. Most of the planets inhabitants must have been plebs or something. Was there a ruling class that we didn't see?
Jun-15-2017 2:59 AM
Getting pretty interesting, I'd like to see a short film called "a day in an Engineer's life " or "Behind the Jockey"... Ok that's nonsense lol, but the idea is there, and if we ask ourselves what they did in their free time, well, I'd say we have to take a look at ancient Greek hobbies and, or pastimes, if you will, we know they had flutes, and maybe they came up with the little "life" theme David was playing, so yeah, that's that.. Maybe they did a gladiator type thing, weight lifting maybe, maybe even poetry and theatre.
Jun-15-2017 3:03 AM
Music would be a big one imo
Jun-15-2017 9:36 AM
One thing is for sure, it is clear from what we see in Covenant and the concept art that the people on this world are very primitive and have little, if any, advanced technology.
The Mother Juggernaut (docking ship) is obviously the same advanced technology as the Juggernaut, and the only technology of this type seen, so that was probably left there by the real (or Elder) Engineers to receive their ships when they made return visits.
Jun-15-2017 10:10 AM
@TheXenoneoprotomorph: "Music world be a big one imo"
Don't forget Greek-style hedonism
Jun-16-2017 1:08 AM
Hedonism hmm, sounds interesting and very likely imo, and these people weren't primitive, these were the original Engineers according to the novel, so no, they weren't "the real enginners' creation", if anything it'd be the opposite.
Jun-16-2017 6:26 AM
I don't remember the novel specifying that these were the original Engineers. Do you recall where that was mentioned?
Regardless, in Covenant they had visible differences from the engineers we see in the Prometheus prologue, and huge differences to the ones with biomechanical skin that were on the Juggernaut.
Jun-17-2017 2:26 AM
I don't own it myself, but I screenshoted it lol, but I lost it, but it did show David referring to them as the original Engineers.
Jun-17-2017 2:33 AM
My theory is that there are 4 types of Engineer, the Elders, sacrificial, military/synth/gm, and civilians, like the ones we see in Covenant, but these civilians modified the sacrifial and military oneswfrom Prometheus, but that kinda contradicts the book, so I guess these are the same as the Elders, maybe the Elders modified themselves.
Jun-17-2017 8:58 AM
Each of the sources including the movies, the books and the things that Sir Ridley says offhand seem to exist in their own universes and timelines. Taken together, it's like taking three puzzles, mixing up all the pieces and then finding out that nothing really comes together in a cohesive picture.
Jun-17-2017 9:14 PM
Well for me. The Elders, the Space jockeys, the Engineers, and the Space Greeks/Romans are the same people, just different factions
Jun-17-2017 9:44 PM
I still want my space jockey growing out of the chair (and other stuff) just like in first Alien movie...
Jun-18-2017 9:53 PM
Highly unlikely but one can only hope
Jun-19-2017 7:46 AM
"It would have been more interesting if The Engineers were the industrious creators of human life (but make them more "alien" than just beefed up humans). . . "
I somewhat agree with that statement. One of my many problems with Prometheus was that they made the Engineer DNA identical to humans which made them less interesting. Having their DNA being like 90% of human’s would have been better because that would have given more of a mystery. This was probably because they hadn’t thought it all out and how things might connect.
I don't think that it grew out of the chair, as far as I know they said something like "looks like it has grown out of the chair"
It looked that way but it doesn't mean that is what happened.
Jun-19-2017 10:43 AM
Im still believing that the lifeforms on planet 4 had some kind of energy shield slowing down the black goo, after David opened the Juggernaut hatch to drop it.