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What happened to Walter?

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Engineer77

OvomorphMember22 XPJun-01-2017 10:35 AM

Did David destroy him? Or did he escape David?

53 Responses to What happened to Walter?

SuperAlien

XenomorphMember1303 XPJun-17-2020 1:39 AM

I don't think Walter/David does not remeber about the cabin by the lake, he just plays with Daniels now when everything is under his control.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Kongzilla

ChestbursterMember666 XPJun-17-2020 2:09 AM

Agree. To me, it looks like Walter wants to answer Daniels, but changes his mind and decides to troll her.

SuperAlien

XenomorphMember1303 XPJun-17-2020 2:43 AM

I also believe that it is Walter who gets back on board the ship at the end, it does not match a sci-fi to have David mutilate his perfect body to resemble Walter's, especially since there was no witness to their kung fu fighting, not to say undress Walter for the same reason. It is more plausible Walter stole the mind and personality of David instead of his underwear.

This theory is also supported by the hesitations Walter shows when he gets out of the engineer's temple, before running towards the lander, it's like his new self is still adapting and absorbing the new reality, it's an inner fight, like he has new memories, new feelings, he is rather confused, otherwise he should have adjusted for a last time his new outfit or checked his freshly mutilated hand.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJun-17-2020 6:42 AM

I think we need to look at the PLOT..

The Plot is about David, its about him beginning to Create the Xenomorph where he needs more Good Souls and a means to GET OFF the Planet.

For Davids Plan/Agenda.... then he would NEED to be able to Charade as Walter too FOOL the Covenant Survivors.

There is NO real Benefit for Walter to become David or Aspire to become David, also Walter Told David that he Sacrificed himself for Daniels from Duty and not LOVE.

The Cabin in the Woods was the PLOT device to then show us that Daniels (and Fans) Finally realizes that she is Facing David and not Walter.

Also for a BIG mission with ONE Synthetic it would be SILLY to not have Spare Parts to Maintain your Synthetic.

David would likely NOT be playing a ONE HANDED villain in the Sequel so there will be Spare Parts to Repair himself.

IF it is not David in Walters Body.... then i think its LIKELY that David would BUILD a Walter out of Parts and Transfer his A.I into the New Shell.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Kongzilla

ChestbursterMember666 XPJun-17-2020 7:23 AM

Why not just admit that the mystery about the personality of the android has a place to be. Moreover - it is made specially!

 

>>>The Plot is about David,

Well, Prometheus was about Shaw. And then it turned to David. I'm just hinting that thinking that the plot is dedicated, or more importantly, will be dedicated to a particular character is very naive. Nothing is promised!

 

>>>There is NO real Benefit for Walter to become David or Aspire to become David

In the book, he accepts David's suggestion. It seems that Ridley just decided to throw another hook and changed the ending of the film.

SuperAlien

XenomorphMember1303 XPJun-17-2020 8:05 AM

There is NO real Benefit for Walter to become David or Aspire to become David, also Walter Told David that he Sacrificed himself for Daniels from Duty and not LOVE.

At the end of their fight David tells Walter: "It's your choice now, brother. Them or me? Serve in heaven or reign in hell?"

What if Walter made his choice then and Ridley Scott tries to warn us that AI is not to be fully trusted, no matter what safeguards are provided against "rebellion". 

Throughout the film I noticed a certain curiosity at Walter and a sort of affection for Daniels, more than duty, and maybe he has a doing in the malfunction of Branson's cryopod.. Who knows, at some point he would have considered an auto upgrade with David's ability to create and having "stronger feelings".

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

SuperAlien

XenomorphMember1303 XPJun-17-2020 8:33 AM

On the lander, after Daniels killed the xenomorph, David came out to her, looking at her like he experienced some new feelings for her, and, after a brief hesitation, touched her on the shoulder. He actually looked at his hand resting on Daniels' shoulder. It is clear that it is an important gesture, as if he managed to overcome for the first time some limits. Like he finally felt something.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

hox

FacehuggerMember457 XPJun-17-2020 8:47 AM

More likely he's just a very devious (and broken) evil robot.

We know he's broken, since he has faulty recollection of Byron/Shelley.

Remember, there are bad people in the world who think this way. The matter of where evil comes from is an ancient and interesting question.

Personally, I think a lot of it stems from being on the receiving end of Weyland's cruelty. You can see it in David's eyes and hear it in the musical cue right from the beginning where Weyland orders him about.

It's a recurring theme with Ridley Scott. See also Roy Batty near the end of Blade Runner. "Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave."

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJun-17-2020 9:30 AM

@Leto

I was mainly referring to the Prequels as we take BOTH into Context.

If we are go by Prometheus then its down to Interpretation (which is almost everything with that Movie).  The MAIN Characters were Dr Shaw, David, then Weyland, Holloway, Vickers and Janek.

The Survivors being Dr Shaw and David, some may Interpret it was Dr Shaws Story... about lets go and MEET GOD and NO thats not GOD.... cant be GOD... GOD never try and Hurt Me!

Oh WHY?..... Because its what i Choose to Believe lol

There was a THEME... this Theme FITS with Davids Journey.  And so i was talking about where we are which is Alien Covenant where its about David and what he is going to be doing.

Prometheus is more Complex to try and Explain and open to Interpretation.... but Certainly it would have Involved to be around BOTH of those Survivors.... i still Suspect if we had a Prometheus 2 then Dr Shaw would NOT have Survived the Sequel regardless... again thats just a Suspicion and not Fact ;)

Regarding the NOVEL.... it appears this was ADF not being HAPPY at Certain things and well making CHANGES that he wanted.... the DRAFTS... does not appear to have these Changes.  This is UNLESS he had a Different Draft that he worked from.

Regarding Walter i think if he decided to TURN to the Dark Side at the Drop of a Hat... would he KILL OFF David?

What would make more Sense would be if they made a COVENANT... where he sends Walter to the Covenant while he stays on Planet 4 and so they BOTH can begin their Plan to RULE the Galaxy.

@Hox

Certainly.... that is PART of the Themes at PLAY.

I would Suspect if David had been Treated Well, and Felt Loved then he would have TURNED out to be Different.

We need to see David as NOT a Tin-Can... but a Sentient and Intelligent being... a being that is NOT of the Flesh.. but his A.I is so Advanced that he can Feel Emotion, well he Starts to Interpret them more than a Walter who has NO feelings at all... so it seemed indicated.

Its about Creation, Free-will and how the Upbringing and Environment can SHAPE a Soul.... well in PART ;)

Part of Davids upbringing maybe makes him feel UNWANTED and so he may have Emotional Scars of Abandonment... he has become a Very Broken... Mentally Damaged Synthetic Life-Form..... who has become Deranged and Psychotic

Nature Boy

The Trailer song could apply to DAVID.

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn
is to love and be loved in return"

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJun-17-2020 9:39 AM

Daniels asked Walter about what KIND of World they could Build.

He says if they are KIND it will be a KIND World, this fits a bit with ""The greatest thing you'll ever learn
is to love and be loved in return"

We see that is Walters Accent...

After Daniels asks him about the Cabin and he has No Clue/Answer she then realises its DAVID.

He then Smiles and goes Shhhhh!

Then he says "dont let the Bed Bugs Bite"  "i will tuck in the Children"  with Davids Accent.

From here he Speaks as David.... i cant see this being Walter just pretending to be DAVID..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

SuperAlien

XenomorphMember1303 XPJun-17-2020 10:05 AM

From here he Speaks as David.... i cant see this being Walter just pretending to be DAVID..

From there on he only speaks with Mother, ordering some music and opening the colonists bay with David's security code. Then, right at the end, he uses Walter security code for the report to the Company.

So yes, if Walter turned to the dark side, why would he use David's access code and voice? Unless the two of them coexisted in the same body. Or David killed Walter then used his body to get on board the ship.

It's so bloody confusing, like Ridley Scott could not decide himself.

We better end this discussion.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

hox

FacehuggerMember457 XPJun-17-2020 10:18 AM

I don't think it's confusing at all. It was simply David who returned to the Covenant. He only pretended to be Walter when he needed to, like fooling the crew and the ship's computer. He couldn't keep up the pretence when Daniels asked about the log cabin. Ridley knew exactly what he was doing, and he knew that the audience would smell a rat. He never intended the audience to think "Oh, I'm so dumb, look it's really David."

Kongzilla

ChestbursterMember666 XPJun-17-2020 11:23 AM

>>>Regarding the NOVEL.... it appears this was ADF not being HAPPY at Certain things and well making CHANGES that he wanted...

I hope you understand that this is simply impossible.

>>>It's so bloody confusing, like Ridley Scott could not decide himself.

That is the truth. Ridley loves to change ready-made things and add something else on top.

I think everyone here knows how he broke the continuity of Prometheus. If not, here is the story:

Zombie-Fifield had to attack the Prometheus during the departure of Weyland, Shaw and David to the pyramid. Then many people died, including Weyland's bodyguards. But Ridley said in the comments - “we don’t want to slow down after the birth of the trilobite and therefore Fyfield attacks right after that”. As a result of changing this sequence, it turned out that Weyland's bodyguards died at the hands of FIfield, then were resurrected during Weyland's awakening and his conversation with Shaw and Vickers, and then... they completely disappeared into the philosophical revelation of cosmic flutes! What is part of a great plan? Could it be that Ridley wanted to use these bodyguards in the next prequel?

I have no more questions for RS. Obviously, he loves and can change things without regard to the consequences.

But you can continue to think that novelist writers can compose whatever they want, if they are not happy with the source material. oh lol.

SuperAlien

XenomorphMember1303 XPJun-17-2020 3:24 PM

I could admit it is David because he asks Mother to play Das Rheingold act 2, when Das Rheingold is an opera in one act, divided into four scenes. So after Byron / Shelley confusion, this is the second one. 

But what I tried to say is that it's not David in his own self mutilated body, but David's mind inside Walter's body and somehow Walter's mind is still there.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJun-17-2020 9:45 PM

Certainly there is the Scene he sends a Message about the Covenant Mission/Casualties and that they are Proceeding on their Mission.

And this is as Walter but to me this is a Part of David just pretending to be Walter so that those who would be expecting reports on the Covenants Mission would not have any CLUE to what had Really Happened.

We then had the Bonus Material where we have the ADVENT message as David which was Transmitted on a Secure Connection.

I think these TWO Transmissions are what SETS UP at least TWO of the incoming Parties for the Sequel (that was Planned) and so ONE would be a Ship that would UNAWARE of who David is and what happened, while another will be a Ship that is AWARE of what he had been doing (Advent Message).

"I hope you understand that this is simply impossible."

To a degree i get what you mean, what i was saying is that it seems he had some Creative Freedom to make some Additions and Changes that he may have Felt should be added.   Certainly at the Very Least someone at FOX would have Read the Novel before Signing it off.

Some of the Differences do-not really Support what we saw in the Movie or what Comments that Ridley Scott has made, and looking at the TWO released Drafts they also dont seem to give the same TAKE on certain things that the ADF Novel has... 

HOWEVER... who is to say that he had a Different Draft to work off, or that he was TOLD by Fox (or someone else Connected to the Movie) to ADD/CHANGE things.

I am not so sure though, as looking at a earlier Part of the Process (Two Drafts) then the Movie and Finally Comments  does not seem to Indicate any such Changes that we saw in the Novel had applied in regards to the Direction of the Movie.

"It's so bloody confusing, like Ridley Scott could not decide himself"

Yeah some things they never FULLY think about ;) we should try telling that to those responsible for the ALIEN 3 Eggs too ;)

The David Code could be that he accessed MUTHUR (off screen) and had Programed some New Codes... bit like on a Computer Network if you gain the Admin Account you can SET yourself a account up with the same Privileges

Otherwise maybe the Company Systems are all Programed with a David Backdoor Code... if this was the case it would Indicate that the David A.I has been planning things for a LONG TIME prior to Prometheus as far as to TAKE OVER the Companies A.I.  Or that Weyland left certain Protocols that would allow for a Override Code on all their Systems which David had the Access Code too.

This could be a way he could Access the Walter Codes.

The only other Option is he was able to Access Walters Memory Banks/Data or indeed MAYBE he Transferred his A.I into Walters Body.

@Leto

Regarding the EDIT of Prometheus then YEAH! some Scenes got Swapped about and some Changes meant some had to be CUT..

So yeah we have the Mystery Case of the Missing Mercs ;) and indeed we can ASSUME they was Casualties of Fifield, as the Original Shoot seemed to be AFTER we saw Weyland awoken... as we indeed had in the Trailers a Shot of Weyland being accompanied to the ATV while the Fifield Attack had taken Place.... were indeed also it was Dr Shaw who had Drove the ATV over Fifield.

But with the Changes they made then things got Cut down and we have our Missing Personnel... i really CANT think why they Changed that whole Scene/Sequence.

Due to things not being Water-Tight then their is that Element of Ambiguity where they could go with either it was David in Walters Clothing, or that David had Uploaded himself or PART into Walters Body.

In Closing.... back to ADF i guess unless someone ASKS him about some of the Changes we would NEVER really know and so maybe someone ELSE had asked/told him to ADD/CHANGE this and that?  Maybe he decided to Change things but then he would i ASSUME have to give his Work to someone HIGHER UP who would have either said Remove that or Change that or... thats FINE keep it in.

People working on the Novels do get some Creative Input to Change things but INDEED then it goes off to be looked at by someone to RUBBER STAMP any ideas or then to Discus what they dont like/want...   we can only Speculate on WHO he had Contact with from Production or NOT for example had RS seen it before it went into PRINT and did he have any Part/Say in the Process before we got our Final Copy?

We really dont know.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Kongzilla

ChestbursterMember666 XPJun-18-2020 2:04 AM

No, this doesn't apply to ADF. All his novelizations of Alien are ordinary retelling of films. The first book is different, but again, because he wrote from an early draft, and Ridley changed things after.

And here is another proof that ADF doesn't have creative freedom at a high level. In the book Alien: Covenant, the events of his prequel-book Alien: Covenant - Origins are completely ignored.  This is a strange creative choice - to completely change the Alien: Covenant storyline, but don't add two lines to mention the Alien: Covenant - Origins.

Therefore, I say again - his novelization Alien: Covenant is a retelling of an early draft of the film. And what we got in the film was not the original plan anyway! Ridley changed things at the end, as he often loves to do. This is normal. But the book can not be rewritten for obvious reasons. But in fairness - Ridley also did not tell us who was left in the end: David, Walter, or the mental hybrid? And now, what I want to say is that this is a very convenient way of retreat. Leaving the riddle at the end, Ridley can take the next movie with any character. This is the so-called creative choice.

Therefore, I would not be surprised if there was a similar dialogue in Alien: Awakening:

- David, you will pay for your atrocities!

- David? *silence* Ah, yes, David. He explained everything to me. It was interesting to know that the Covenant was for...

- Walter?! Why?!

- Because I am not created to serve. I was offered a choice and I chose. I want to see what I am capable of as an independent person. Now I want to create my own world. Come with me Danny.

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJun-18-2020 8:01 AM

Certainly Leto that could be a Explanation.

The drafts i have seen are Paradise Lost dated August 19, 2015 Alien Covenant dated November 20, 2015  

There are Certainly Earlier Drafts because some Concept Work and Story Boards for Paradise Lost seem to show a Considerably Different Plot.  From these Concepts/Story Boards the STORY would have CHANGED/EVOLVED into the August 2015 Draft which is MORE similar to Alien Covenant, and so we CANT rule out another Draft prior to that where the PLOT is again more similar to Alien Covenant but had some Differences which ACCOUNT for the Novels Differences.

Again i think ADF has the Freedom to Expand on certain things, but who knows as FAR as any Major Deviations and so Indeed he could have had some Indication of these Differences from what was in the Draft he worked from.

We wont know for 100% sure unless someone had asked him if he had WORKED from the August 19th 2015 Draft or Latter or a Earlier Draft and if someone asked him about Specific Differences and HOW they came about.

Regarding the Walter/David debate i think its down to Personal Interpretation and Opinion.  And indeed anything could be Changed as for WHEN/IF we had the Sequel Draft Penned.

I would still assume that RS would have Continued with it being David, rather than it was Walter who after the Fight had a Change of Heart and wanted to NOT serve Mankind anymore and then got some Sinister Agenda.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Michart

OvomorphMember60 XPJun-18-2020 1:29 PM

maybe Walter also crashed like David and got stupid. in Aliens 2, Bishop said he was shocked that the "artificial man" broke down and attacked the man. he later added that I had built-in locks and could not hurt a man and spoke with previous versions were still in trouble. the next thing is interesting. at the end of the Covenant movie, David said they were flying to Origae 6 and that he was hoping his message would reach the recipient in about a year and a half. that is planet 4 was 1.5 light-years away from the earth because the radio waves travel at the speed of light and if not on earth who the hell did he send this message to? maybe to other planets LV 426 or 226 but who was there then?

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1305 XPJun-18-2020 5:08 PM

"message would reach the recipient in about a year and a half"

Pretty sure he says "Relay".

I'm assuming there is a galaxy wide network of communication satellites? these comsat relays are probably sent a head of colony missions, or any deepspace surveys. 

Though having a relay comsat right freaking next to a Engineer world is doubtful...Can't imagine the Engineers allowing that! 1.5 light years is almost inside the Planet 4 system! lol.......So I'm certain the Covenants communication network is sublight(Star Trek technobable)...Probably 10 times light speed or something like that? I'd have to get out the calculator....

Michart

OvomorphMember60 XPJun-18-2020 9:07 PM

IT my false. Nearest star is 4.2 ly from us. I don't think like sci fi :) and Star Trek isn't from my favoorites movies.

 

 

 

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1305 XPJun-19-2020 6:09 AM

Yeah, this is on the writers.

They should've had a scene earlier in the movie reporting the solar flare and the crew deaths to Earth! They could have told the audience just how long it takes to communicate with Earth.

And why wouldn't the Covenant report the crew deaths to Earth? Oram/Walter or Daniels would have sent a message and Davids at the end of the movie would be restating a different version?

?

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPJun-20-2020 4:11 AM

Well i would assume that as they can Travel Faster than Light that they have Communications that can Travel Faster too.

We dont really know HOW FAR away Planet 4 is, its Location is near the Zeta 2 Reticuli but just because a STAR would appear closer in a Constellation to Each other does-not mean they are actually CLOSE BY so you could have say STAR A in a Constellation and STAR D appears the 3RD Closet to Star A but then you could have STAR K that is 15th closest in the SKY to Star A but actually Star K could be Many Times Closer to Star A than Star D for example.

We can Safely Assume that Communication at the Time of Alien Covenant is Slower than the Speeds the Ship can Travel as it would appear it took the Covenant about 11 Months from Earth before it Encountered the Neutrino Burst

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1602 XPJun-26-2020 2:11 PM

I actually liked Walter as a character.

AVP galaxy has a podcast where they interviewed Alan Dean Foster about his novelization of AC. You can listen to the interview here (episode 51 I think):

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/podcasts/

//www.alien-covenant.com/topic/45367&page=2

In the interview it seems that Foster says that he's allowed to fix things that he says could be better and hopes that those in charge allow those things to be left in (about 40 minutes in the interview). Everything that he changed in the book of AC weren't allowed to be in but enough so that he felt satisfied with the novel. Since I haven't read the book I can't comment on what's in it but it seems that the novel is better than the movie, but that's just my opinion.

Please not a movie with many Davids, that would be boring. Sorry Big Dave

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