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did anyone else feel covenant couldv been so much more?

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ali81

May-31-2017 12:53 AM

now iv seen the movie iv come away starting to lean on the disappointed side with what ridley is doing. I stuck up for Prometheus because I really enjoyed the movie and loved the idea of ridley finally answering the questions no other director had approached. who was the big guy in the chair and what is the connection to those eggs. Prometheus was imo an excellent starting movie to address these questions. but having now seen covenant I am so let down. what I saw in the movie was ridleys usual stunning visual direction. but that was it. we had the chance to see a whole new side to the alien universe and we still may, but the way things r going, it doesn't look likely. now I read ridley has confirmed david is the one responsible for the xeno so that would mean the derelict has only been crashed for a Cpl of decades. well if this is going to be the case then covenant will be the last alien movie I watch. I got the feeling from covenant that there could easily have been cut into 2 parts. it felt like there was a good 4 hours worth of story there but much like a sporting events show, he has gone down the route of just showing us highlights rather than a movie on the planet ending with david sneaking a xeno onboard then a part 2 with the crew dealing with the xeno on the covenant. I mean one minute their on the planet then, cut, full grown xeno on the ship???????? I am so disappointed and would go almost as far as to say imo ridley has completely sold out the original movie and its wonder.

and final gripe. if david is the one responsible for the xeno, wtf was that mural all about?

18 Responses to did anyone else feel covenant couldv been so much more?

suwhited

May-31-2017 5:01 AM

Yes.

   Ridley took the easy way out and tried to "reset" the whole series by wiping out the Engineers (Does a make sense that a technologically-advanced, space-faring society would have one measly city on one backwater planet?).

He also dusted Shaw because she didn't fit the vision of Alien(s) running amuck against a badass heroine (ala Ripley).

It seems to me that he never got over "Blade Runner" and wants to use David to continue to explore those complex themes of machine self-awareness...

I wanted an continuation of "Prometheus" with "Alien" effects that fixed some of the plot holes and instead got "Aliens" with a liberal dose of the robot Maximillian from the "Black Hole..."

..Very disconcerting...   

nudger40

May-31-2017 6:01 AM

I wanted this also -

I wanted an continuation of "Prometheus" with "Alien" effects that fixed some of the plot holes and instead got "Aliens" with a liberal dose of the robot Maximillian from the "Black Hole.

Thought Prometheus really set a different kind of tone, then AC just rushed straight into the backside of Alien.

Membrane

May-31-2017 6:07 AM

I'm with all of you.  Your statements could be mine.

And this sentiment is shared by wife.  She really liked 'Prometheus' (even with its shortcomings) and was disappointed in 'Alien: Covenant' and not sure if she will have interest to continue.

ali81

May-31-2017 6:11 AM

for me Prometheus is by far the better of the 2. always left room for creatures to follow but now it looks like engineers r dead and david is responsible for the who xeno even though the mural which apparently is thousands of years old depicts the dam creature along with egg hugger etc. if this is the case then I just don't see any of these prequels doing the original alien any justice.

Membrane

May-31-2017 6:19 AM

Yes, 'Prometheus' posed things in a way that it could open up vastly to new worlds, beings, ideas, etc.  And 'Alien: Covenant' squashed all that in one fell swoop.  I ask, in hindsight, why did you even make 'Prometheus' then?  Most of what it was about has nothing to do with what you appear to be doing going forward.

Michelle Johnston

May-31-2017 6:38 AM

@Ali81

It only really becomes easy to see where things went wrong once you have made the journey.

The three issues we now know a Jockey movie was facing were :-

1)Those who want a monster wars film.

2) The bigger audience who just want something light, fast paced with gore and no philosophical hijacking.

3) The Aliens/Ripley/Queen repeat.

The only way Ridley was going to get past this was to ensure the first entry was bullet proof and took a slightly different audience forward and made a straight forward connection with the xxx121 to actually let go of the beast. If Prometheus had more straight forward love, Covenant would never have been made we would have been over the beast. 

LV223 should have answered three simple questions:-

1) That the Jockey race were IGGI space gardeners that seeded us as Covenanted but then stole the fire from the Gods to begin experimenting on their own creations.

2) They created the xxx121 as a punishment weapon which they sacrificed but created the mutagen and bit them on the bum and wiped them out. Something like the way the Pathogen is explained in the novelisation of Covenant.  

3) The Peter Weyland origin story which should have included the revelation he knew more about the Engineers than he revealed to anyone which is why he went on the daft mission seeking immortality.

The reveal at the end an epilogue (the life boat and vickers should should have been out the trilobite ended in the crash) with the twist being Shaw just before they leave on the Juggernaut exploring alone, the only survivor, and finding an Egg in a different and more intimate headroom on an alter empty with a busted Engineer. But the tension of such a scene could have been astonishing and given people an ALIEN ending rather than an Engineer one and in story terms lay the lifecycle to rest. We think she is finally going to die but its a tease the eggs empty and they leave for Paradise. 

We then know how Weyland ended, who made the beast and who the Jockey was. You could have even have had a hologram recording (which David runs) extending on from the guys running representing a Jockey in trouble preparing to leave and we the audience know he is in trouble and won't make it but our ALIEN Jockey survived until later.  

We should have known precisely what LV223 was its connection with the beast and then move on to new and audacious material.  

Then David and Shaw could have gone off to meet these  aggressive f....., as Ridley described them, to get Elizabeth her answers and the plot is driven by Davids dawning humanity (expressed in his feelings towards Shaw) and the realisation he has to sacrifice and  destroy the source of the Engineers power infect it like a virus.  

Elizabeth dies at the hands of the Engineers and David in act of sacrifice destroys the Engineers.

Two fresh and vigorous films telling the story of the Jockey race and giving us an origin story for the XXX121 and clear and decisive answers for the global audience through seeing Engineers actually busting and finding an homage to the lifecycle at the end of the first movie.

That second movie would have been audacious and really brave just Fassbender Rapace and the Engineers possibly victims of their perversity no beast fodder just a small cast moving through this extra ordinary world. 

Cerulean Blue

May-31-2017 8:33 AM

@Michelle J. - Will you please try to send your ideas to Sir Ridley?!?!

Michelle Johnston

May-31-2017 11:21 AM

@Cerulean Blue

Very sweet of you but the more I think about it if Prometheus had dealt a quick one two on precisely who the Jockey was and how the Pathogen and the creature came about then the audience could move on to fresh territory. We are now two movies on with contradictory canon within them and between them and no really satisfying answers, when the who was the Jockey was supposed to be the raison d'être the question no one asked to be answered.   

AdamPD

May-31-2017 1:03 PM

Like Prometheus, it was disappointing and could've been so much more.

Prometheus had some really good scenes cut from it, that should've been in the film.

 

djamelameziane

May-31-2017 1:05 PM

Yes after seeing alien these new films pale in comparison unfortunately... So much potential missed....

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

joylitt

May-31-2017 1:17 PM

I believe what went wrong with Alien Covenant is the fact that the writers are ignorant of the Alien canon, and also failed to capitalize on the fascinating possibilities left lingering by "Prometheus". Honestly, Covenant doesn't withstand a second viewing since all the flaws, bland dialogue and B movie trappings become all the more obvious. And it looks cheap.

sherris

May-31-2017 1:23 PM

i think we have been quite kind to a:c

We were unhappy with the amount of questions and lack of answers in Prometheus.

We reluctantly accepted it, forgot about the stupid crew decisions and the holes in the story.

We were onto something bigger. An expanded universe to think of. New beings. We will tighten the story with the next one....

Then a:c arrives. 

We got nothing really. I was embarrassed that i had spent so many hours theorising and debating.

The worst part of it all for me was the fact that if we got a few reveals and answers to the questions that mattered we would of been happy. It would of been nothing to get a few sentances about the engineers, the city, the hall of heads. 

Why waste money on amazing sets to just ignore them.

I really think that most of us would of had a totally different opinion of a:c if we got just a few reveals.  Something to debate with. Were searching for scraps to try and debate with

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

joylitt

May-31-2017 1:35 PM

Imagine a minor director had made the exact same movie. The rottentomatoes score would be now sitting at 20% and all the fanbase would be demanding his head on a stick. But no, Ridley Scott made it and he is supposed to know best, right? However, with time, this movie will most likely get all the universal scorn and ridicule it deserves.

colonialsoldier

May-31-2017 1:52 PM

First, I think the story of the Engineers ruins the Alien series and they should have put Prometheus in another world than Alien.

All is had to do was re-create the creepiness and horror as in the first one (RIP DP Derek Vanlint) and vary the terror up.  Sorry, the backburster and faceburster did not have no impact at all.  The only thing that made me go wow; was listening to Jerry Goldsmith's score again.  Jerry Goldsmith's brief score in Prometheus did not fit.

Michelle Johnston

May-31-2017 3:34 PM

@Colonialsoldier 

Where I disagree with you is how ever good the execution of the life cycle, and in AC it was like a comic with bad timing, it just isn't interesting anymore its been done to death. Your right it did not have the threatening atmosphere of the first film but you can not keep on doing that without the law of diminishing returns. Why because in the end what the creature does is very limiting. If you give it more personality it becomes to familiar and in the end it will be blown into space. 

No for me what could have been fascinating and horrific is to find out how it was created. The pathogen was all pervasive in Prometheus and the spoors were a neat extension of that idea but if you want terror put the two characters inside a deeply hostile living environment where procreation without sentiment is the culture. Where Shaw is corrupted and turned into a birthing machine whilst David has to find a way to destroy this inverted paradise. You could have made the clone room in A R feel like a tea party but most important you would have shown the jockey was a cruel and degenerate species where we would know without being there that our LV 426 guy finally recognises, to late, they have been seduced by the devil, lands the Juggernaut and manages to activate the beacon just as he is busted. By knowing for certain how that fitted in without actually living it keeps the mystery and adds to our experience of the first film which becomes the final one. 

I do not think you can reboot the beast however good the execution. 

Michelle Johnston

May-31-2017 11:22 PM

@Sherris

"We got nothing really. I was embarrassed that i had spent so many hours theorising and debating.I just wanted."

The discussions of course were triggered because we were encouraged to do so by the film makers and bravo good for them. You were not projecting more on to Prometheus than was intended you were meant to do that.

Where Covenant wrong footed me is I expected answers what I did not expect is for them to effectively remove the questions.  

Tee flys into this amazing environment and completely ignores it not even what is this ? He  doesn't ask a simple question of Daniels or reflect on it afterwards. You have to take the view that is an example of what Wayne Haag in his pod cast describes as dispensing of the bull.... .

Compare that to the craft that went into the wake up scene which could have set the tone for a really fascinating movie instead of the only thing we are going to try and fascinate you with is how mad can a robot get. 

Ridley has talked about how they made the film for a ton rather than 160 and in 87 days not 100 days. For an 80 year old to have his energy is amazing but I think that tells us why we came out of the movie with words like routine/adequate.

joylitt

May-31-2017 11:33 PM

Michelle Johnston I hear you. They should have published a statement prior to the movie release saying "Most of what you have seen in "Prometheus" was nothing but a big tease. Forget about it and if you cannot, just refer your questions to Damon Lindelof" :-)

ali81

Jun-01-2017 12:36 AM

i actually like the engineer plot and after Prometheus we were left with a huge array of possibilities. many on here discussed the civil war angle which I know ridley scott wouldv smashed on the big screen. Iv also wondered if his reasoning behind choosing humanoid engineers rather than the older elephantine creature for the jokey was maybe an idea for a movie that had little screen time for actual humans so humanoid beings wouldv helped imo. I will give covenant another go in a month or so but my opinion at the moment is that it bombed and ridley must take the blame for this. as such a well respected director he probably has more weight with the studio than most other directors and he himself stated the only reason he came back was to address the space jokey and egg connection and it looks like he has bailed on that which is so disappointing. alien is a classic piece of cinema, one which stands up against any movie past and present. this prequel HAD to do it justice imo and so far, it isn't. I like Prometheus as a stand alone jump off movie which gave us so many possibilities for the future instalments but for me covenant has just binned a lot of those. I hope that the stories of david being responsible for the xeno turn out to be false and ridley gets back on track with the engineers story/history. theyv had what, all of 15 minutes screen time in over 4 hours? awakening will be the telling point if he can redeem himself or not imo. id even go as far to say im concerned for blade runner at this point in time. it has to be said tho fassbender is awesome and carries the 2 films so far and david is a worthy antagonist but I feel these prequels could have so much more going on than just this

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