David Uploaded His Programming into Walter...
You will recall that Daniels stabs David in the chin with the nail pendant that she wears. Note that the android that is aboard the ship at the end of the movie bears no such scar, indicating that the android chassis is that of Walter. However, it is clear that David's A.I. now resides in the chassis of Walter once they are back on board the Covenant.
David's programming was either uploaded into Walter, or Walter's programming was "rolled back" to that of David, in a similar way that you can roll back MS Windows to a prior state after a software upgrade.
I had a hard time buying into this theory but apparently RS said as much during the Empire podcast. I listened to it and didn't hear it specifically but may have missed it.
Yes it was already confirmed via podcast by the director, thanks to Svanya. I suppose he must have done so at the speed of light to reach the lander at time.
Keep in mind the David vs Walter fight scenes(s). *dont read to avoid spoilers*
Walter was badly damaged two times while he is a resilient as f* upgraded model.
I didnt saw what David ripped of Walter the first time from his neck becasue of bad lighting. It looked like some internal AI,control module.
The second fight he got some body hits.
And when he finally managed to immobilize David (after his hopeless attempts to destroy Walter) and punched his face you see him stop for a moment when David says to him that he should choose the right side.
In the same moment David grabs a knife and Walter looks like he continue to hit him in the face again, but we cant see (what really happened) because in this brief moment there is a cut.
walter have better ability. but he doesnt have 'creative'. so walter wanna be a david. walter knew AI of david8 is something wrong but he didnt told to people even daniels. david is smart so he could upload his mind into walter. i just impressed. when david acting walter, he used american accent. and when daniels slept, he used his british accent again
some really great points.
heres something i wrote down:
Walter passcode at beginning was: 31564-F
At the end the android says: Use code David 73694-B
So they have similar codes. Both 5 numbers, dash, one letter.
This could be meaningless or it could mean David has had some contact with WY?
Was it this contact that allowed David to assume Walters control or indeed as you say "Upload his programming"?
Take This.... This is the blood of our lord
@Roger55 Actually what I mentioned was that Ridley said David physically switched places with Walter, cutting off his own hand, not that David put his programming into Walter. (He even cuts his hair to look like Walter).
Ridley also mentions that David is around 80 years old and that Weyland knew as soon as he spoke to David in the first few minutes of contact with him that he was dangerous and a mistake, but couldn't bring himself to destroy him. David is like HAL from 2001. That's fascinating imo.
Here is the link to the podcast: Alien: Covenant Spoiler Special With Sir Ridley Scott
@Roger55 Ah ok my bad, I understood you said that I confirmed David put his programming into Walter. Not that they had switched places physically. xx
Good discussion here; thanks. There's a lot of conflicting info about what Ridley said. Again, the red herring is that David would have a hole in the chin from the nail. The android aboard the Covenant at the end of the movie has no such scar on his chin. That's the clincher.
He was back online. His sensors told him he was without body. David had decapitated him. It was completely dark. He could smell and taste organic cloth.
He was in a sack.
David must of woven it. Such creativity.
Walter also determined he was surrounded by stone. Jammed into a crevice or stored in a box, perhaps dropped down a dry well? He did not know.
Walter could hear footsteps.....
The USCSS Nostromo was preparing to get underway......
As for the hole in his neck, it's such a small wound who would even notice, and why would David go through the trouble to cut his hair to match Walter's if only to just download himself into Walter anyways? Has anyone read the novel yet? What does it say? That should answer the question, right? My copy is set to arrive on thursday.
Good points, Lilly. While watching the film, I guessed the David/Walter swap as soon as they were back on the ship. If you watch the film closely, you see the android at angles several times that clearly show the underside of his chin. This is the tip-off that the android body IS that of Walter. I'm not sure of the relevance of the hair; I didn't think that David cut his hair to match that of Walter's. I thought that he trimmed his hair back to his old look and shaved because he wanted to look presentable and trustworthy to his guests (he did it when they first arrived in the Engineer city). Now, I'm not an "insider" or anything, but that is what the film presents. I don't know if the book differs in these regards. The problem with comparing the book to the film is that if only one version answers a question, then you have another useful piece of the puzzle. If the book differs from the film, then you simply have two different events that may as well have occurred in different universes.
Not getting off the programming issue, but they are connected... is it safe to assume the NEW David/Walter amalgam utilized Dr. Shaw's reproductive organs(information-wise, AND actual harvesting of her organics to his internals) to 'engineer'/gestate the facehugger embryos? This certainly would lead to what WE all know as H.R. Giger's biomechanical design of what would be the coming familial Egg/Xenomorph seen in Scott's ALIEN in 1979. So in summation, let me get this straight;
David is not only HAL(2001 A SPACE ODYSSEY, David's voice cadence is the same), but he's also a Queen! ;)
@Ripleys_Ghost Lol! thanks for that!
So is David still on Planet 4 or Walter?
You see David grabbing a knife before Walter made his "final punch" into his face.
Maybe he hit one of Walter's exposed vital systems to deactivate him again so he can manipulate/modify him.
Indeed. Been watching the film repeatedly, as Ridley is My favorite director, Alien COVENANT has a bit of a RESURRECTION feel to it, it's very dark, quirky, with more of a Stanley Kubrick-esque weirdness to it. Gralen, your avatar makes me think SchwarzenEGGer should play a future engineer... sent to hunt down David!
We need to remember a lot of flaws are bad ideas, and bad writing and going against what is more logical...
But indeed it appears David just swapped clothes and places, this has some flaws as people have noted the missing hole in the Chin.
But then the alternative is to ask how does David have time and in what way can he upload himself to overwrite Walters Program..... which could get us to wonder why does David not know about the Cabin on the Lake.
Logically explanation is IF David did upload himself to Walter, then it was a complete Overwrite of Walters System including any memories/files he had.
For David to be 80 years old, confirms he is not David 8 but David 1, but then as i speculated a while ago, its likely every new David Prototype... Weyland uploads the previous Prototypes Memories and Experiences to each new Prototype.
Thus making David truly Immortal and also having a Soul of sorts...
I think they could have used this with Walter, in having Walter have some device that he would attempt to Maintain and Update Davids Software, but instead David manages to Replace Walters with Davids...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"At the end the android says: Use code David 73694-B"
This is one thing i think some people miss.... indeed David does this and then MUTHUR refers to him as David.
Its a interesting little Twist... why would David know a Code that would have some input into a Ship no doubt built after David had set off on the Prometheus mission.
Its ambiguous, and so could be just all WY MUTHUR Systems have a Master-Code... but surely after a Merger they would have had a New Master-Code..... so its interesting and i have a feeling they could be exploring the AI a bit more.
ASH and MUTHUR was working together in Alien, and so who knows id RS is going to have it that AI is actually running things without Mankind even being aware.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"Why would David know a Code that would have some input into a Ship no doubt built after David had set off on the Prometheus mission". ~BigDave
I assume it's because Weyland gave full access to David on the original mission, and that access was never rescinded because both David and Mr.Weyland were reported MIA/Dead and there was no need to change it. It's possibly even something only Mr.Weyland knew about.
As for David being the first, the prototype David1, I think that was obvious, he was always the template, the original model in my mind. He was Mr.Weyland's "son", that's why he was always with Mr.Weyland, at his side. He was the first he ever built, we even get to see him choose his name at the beginning of the movie. The rest of the David line were modeled after him.
I like that Ridley says Weyland knew David was a mistake/dangerous but was too proud of his creation to destroy him. It's a theme we see a few times in the series, creating something dangerous and not destroying it because of our pride and hubris, only to have it be our downfall.
The idea i had for David that i would have explored with my drafts, was indeed David 1P had his memories/emotions transferred to David 2P then David 3P and so on... this was Weyland own personal Son...
But Weyland did not create David because he could, yes he saw they could make him Rich once Androids become widely used... its also not 100% because Weyland wanted to be GOD and Create his own...
But i wondered did Weyland create David, and was always Evolving the Model and then transferring Davids memories/emotions HIS SOUL in the Hope that one day once Weyland has Perfected David, if he can then find a way that Weyland can Store his own Memories/Emotions and experiences into a Synthetic, that he can keep transferring from model to model.
Then Weyland would have conquered Mortality and become Immortal. But for all of Weylands Success, he could not achieve this and Transcend his Soul into a Synthetic.
Getting Old and Desperate, he then Foolishly resorted into Shaw and Holloways findings, in the hope that finding our Real Creators could grant him Immortality.
This is what i thought was going on, and what indeed i would have gone with... with my Prometheus 2 and sequels..
I really hope FOX/RS maybe explore this idea.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Did David copy his his memory's(cut and paste if you will) I would think it better to clone yourself. Little reason to 'move' your data rather than 'copy'?
The original David is still on Planet 4 and a copy of his memory's are aboard Walter heading for places unknown? *shrug*
I would think all synthetics have a backup Read Only Memory chip just in case they suffer a catastrophic error and need to reboot.
David is a virus...Maybe Walter and David are in a epic battle for software control?
It's likely that all command staff have access codes, and this would include the ship's android. Each vessel has a "MUTHUR" computer, and it would likely contain all current codes and *perhaps* any command codes that haven't been rescinded. David went Control-Meta-Shift cuckoo. But, nobody on Earth knows that. So his codes *may be* current and valid. Getting back to David/Walter et al, another red herring is that David's voice box is damaged and he spoke with an inflection much like that of Ash in the first movie. In any case, each movie is a bit of a retcon, and *anything* is possible. The plot thickens, as they say...
All these very good hypotheticals are great for discussion and i enjoy reading them but what it really means for me is again a weak plot and script where Scott backs himself into corners and then has to jump through hoops to get out of them. The David and Walter switch or not does not make any sense if considered objectively. Why didnt muthur recognise David as an imposter? Why didnt muthur detect the life forms in him? If we are to believe Weyland has something to do with it again there is nil evidence to back it up.
Sorry far to wishy washy messy matrix. Uploading, downloading, syncing, space lag... Nah. David is David... In David, no Freaky Fridays. ;)
David stabbed Walter in the neck, should have killed or disabled him. On the next android titan vs titan battle, Walter pauses when he has the advantage, David is seen reaching for the knife... Who knows.. Second time lucky? Hope not Walter was/is a sweetheart.
"Nah. David is David... In David, no Freaky Fridays. ;)"
Liar, lair, pants on fire.
In the novelization Daniels rams that nail in David 8's eye and it heals like you would expect Walter's to.
Page 292, "As he tossed it aside, the injured eye began to cloud over. A temporary optical glaze formed as the material repaired itself. Internal capsulation that had no counterpart in a human body pumped fresh restorative replacement material into the eye."
I believe the small hole in his chin would be less work for David 8's restorative capability.
"In the novelization Daniels rams that nail in David 8's eye and it heals like you would expect Walter's to."
Thanks for the quote from the book; that's pretty interesting. Are there any scenes in the movies wherein an android's system repairs itself like that? I didn't think that this was a possibility because Walter (or David) appears on the Covenant with many unrepaired scrapes and cuts. I believe that it's Daniels that staples' the androids cheek abraisions with surgical staples?
"ASH and MUTHUR was working together in Alien, and so who knows id RS is going to have it that AI is actually running things without Mankind even being aware."
Hi BigDave. I'm starting to think the exact same thing.
Especially since Mother took David 8's "hailing" code without hesitation and Mother deploying the sails just before the atypical energy burst to absorb the full force. And on page 245 of the novelization David 8 was "waiting for Mother" in regards to a new host for his eggs.
This host was Captain Oram. Mother delivered him to David 8.
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